Ticketing and Concessionary Travel on Public Transport - United ...

Transport Committee: Evidence Ev 51
Witnesses: Mr Tom Harris MP, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Transport <strong>and</strong> Mr Bob Linnard,
Director, Rail Strategy <strong>and</strong> Stakeholder Relations, Department for Transport, gave evidence.
Q419 Chairman: Good afternoon, gentlemen. Could
you introduce yourselves for the record, please?
Mr Harris: I am Tom Harris, the Parliamentary
Under Secretary of State for Transport <strong>and</strong> on my
left is Bob Linnard, Director of Rail Strategy for the
Department for Transport.
Q420 Chairman: Minister, is there something you
want to tell us before we start?
Mr Harris: Yes, please, I have a very short
statement. At the risk of being accused of trying to
curry favour with you, can I begin by wishing you a
happy birthday?
Q421 Chairman: Do you realise I am seven today?
Mr Harris: I was not going to mention the age! Can
I first of all thank you for the opportunity of
appearing here on my first oYcial appearance in
front of the Transport Committee. I think the
subject of your inquiry is very welcome to us. The
Government sees ticketing choices as being
absolutely crucial to the travelling public because we
believe they should be fair, they should be
transparent <strong>and</strong> importantly passengers should be
absolutely confident that they have made the right
choice in the product they have bought. It is the
Government’s job to make sure that the structures
are in place to make sure that that all happens. Smart
ticketing, which I know is part of your inquiry, is
already a reality in five of the rail franchises in terms
of ITSO requirements being built into them <strong>and</strong> all
future rail franchises that come up for renewal will
also have those requirements put in them. As you
know we are working with Transport for London to
integrate ITSO <strong>and</strong> Oyster cards across London.
The English <strong>Concessionary</strong> Bus <strong>Travel</strong> Scheme is
encouraging the roll out on a massive level of ITSO
cards because, as you know, all of the concessionary
cards are ITSO compliant. I believe that is going to
help create the commercial case for the roll-out of
further ITSO products. More generally on the
concessionary scheme, I think this is going to be of
huge benefit to millions of eligible people who will
qualify for a card. I should also point out that the
Act itself does allow for changes in the structure <strong>and</strong>
administration of the scheme at some point in the
future if that is required. You will also know that the
Department is working closely with the Association
of Train Operating Companies to provide a br<strong>and</strong>
new structure—we hope a very much simplified
structure—of rail fares which will take eVect next
year in fact. That is basically where I am starting
from.
Q422 Chairman: Thank you for that, Minister. You
will not be surprised to learn that there has been a lot
of praise for the impact of the concessionary fare
scheme on people’s lives in the quality of the passing
of their days, but I do think that there is one question
that we really do have to ask you before we start <strong>and</strong>
that is: does the department have an overall strategy
on how it wants all these diVerent schemes to work?
Has it thought through the implications of some of
the diVerent schemes working alongside one
another? What are your views of where you want to
end up with these schemes?
Mr Harris: When you say “these schemes” do you
mean the local authority base concessionary
schemes?
Q423 Chairman: The evidence we have taken has
been very interesting because we have taken
evidence both about the diVerence between the
Oyster cards <strong>and</strong> the areas around London but we
have also taken evidence from some of your
immediate predecessors about the impact that this is
having on some domestic rail lines <strong>and</strong> all sorts of
other schemes. You realise the complexity of this;
what we really want to know is whether you have a
very clear view of what you want out of this scheme,
where you are going, how you are going to get there
<strong>and</strong> what you want at the end of it?
Mr Harris: I think there are two aspects to it <strong>and</strong> I
think the general social benefit of the concessionary
fare schemes is one area that you might want to come
back to. The other side is the technical
implementation of it. Because they are ITSO
compliant (you know that ITSO is the integrated
transport smartcard organisation although it does
not st<strong>and</strong> for that any more) all these local authority
schemes are actually compliant because it is a
national scheme anyone with an ITSO
concessionary card can move from one scheme to
another physically.
Q424 Chairman: I am going to stop you there. I am
very happy that the Committee should discuss the
implementation but frankly I need to know what
your basic strategy is. Tell us how you see the overall
future <strong>and</strong> implementation <strong>and</strong> particularly what
your policy is in relation to these schemes. Tell us
that first <strong>and</strong> then we can actually put you through
the wringer on the way you make your mistakes.
Mr Harris: Essentially our vision is to allow as
seamless as possible a local transport experience
from buying the ticket in the first place to saying
what product you want until right through to
arriving at your destination. That will increasingly
mean doing it on a cashless basis although it would
not necessarily be cashless but a lot of people prefer
not to use cash, to use smartcard technology. If we
are going to encourage people to use more modes of
transport to make their journeys rather than use
their private car then one of the keys to that is to
make it as accessible as possible <strong>and</strong> that does not
just mean physically it means a seamless transaction.
Crucially it not only has to be seamless, we have to
provide a product <strong>and</strong> an experience that people
underst<strong>and</strong> how it is working. If it is not transparent
I feel that people are not going to trust that they are
paying the right amount of money on a particular
product. They have to be reassured that it is
transparent <strong>and</strong> that it works very, very eYciently.
No doubt I will have an opportunity to come back
later on to the technological side of that because that
is absolutely crucial.