Ticketing and Concessionary Travel on Public Transport - United ...

More documents

Recommendations

Info

Ev 48 Transport Committee: Evidence 12 December 2007 Mr Stephen Joseph, Mr Anthony Smith, Mr Rufus Barnes <strong>and</strong> Mr Gordon Edwards there is a danger that pensioners will get free travel concessions <strong>and</strong> not have any buses that they can use them on. Mr Edwards: Since the first of April 2006 there have been a large number of commercial services in south west Engl<strong>and</strong> withdrawn <strong>and</strong> on many occasions the bus company—a subsidiary of the major groups— stated that the revenue from the routes has fallen due to inadequate concessionary fare reimbursement. We obviously do not have access to any financial information to state whether that is true or not true. What we do see, therefore, is that the local authority then has to go out <strong>and</strong> put out a contract for a service which usually, because of financial constraints, is less good than the service that was previously provided at substantial cost to public funds. Mr Smith: Again some anecdotal evidence, but the introduction of concessionary fares on the buses of course has had an impact on the railways in some parts of the country. Previously there was the bizarre situation where the bus fare was more than the rail fare in many rural areas. The introduction of free bus travel has, to a degree, diverted quite a few passengers onto the buses <strong>and</strong> away from the trains where similar concessions are not available at the present time. Q400 Chairman: I think what worries the Committee is how accurate is the information about this because—I am not saying this in any sense in a pejorative way—a lot of the information is after all anecdotal. How would we obtain accurate research that says what is happening <strong>and</strong> how widespread it is in the event? Mr Edwards: If I could draw your attention to a report which was 179 from the Scottish Executive Development Department after they introduced free concessionary fares, they looked at the Lothian <strong>and</strong> Strathclyde areas <strong>and</strong> said a significant switch from rail to bus was measured by on-train surveys before <strong>and</strong> after the introduction of free fares. The abstraction was between 19% <strong>and</strong> 66% <strong>and</strong> it averaged 46% for those two regions. I could give you examples where we have seen abstraction on certain railway lines in south west Engl<strong>and</strong> from rail to bus. We now have a line like the Exeter to Exmouth line which is basically becoming a commuter railway, well used in the morning peak by commuters who come back, of course, in the evening. During the day the over-60s who used to use that service now go by bus because it is town centre to city centre every 12 minutes, low floor, free. Q401 Mr Martlew: Is that a problem? Mr Edwards: In the south west we are worried about the financial viability of our railway lines because many of our railway lines are community railway lines, have been designated by the DfT <strong>and</strong> they are supposed to grow custom. However, you have somewhere like Looe to Liskeard, Penzance to St Ives where, in the winter, people, because of the high percentage of concessionary fare holders in those area, are now using competing bus services <strong>and</strong> not using trains. Mr Smith: I think that is a good question, does it matter? From the passengers’ point of view of course it is potentially of great benefit in the short term, but in the longer term the railways in these areas are subsidised by the Government for a purpose <strong>and</strong> if that purpose is not being fulfilled you would hope there would be a bit of joined up thinking about which mode of transport is going to be favoured by the public subsidy, but it appears to be approached in separate parts. Q402 Graham Stringer: Is there anything to be learned from the experience in Wales or Scotl<strong>and</strong> or Northern Irel<strong>and</strong> in relation to the introduction of the national concessionary fares scheme? We have had some very interesting examples, but are there other lessons that can be learned which the Government should be applying to Engl<strong>and</strong>? Mr Joseph: Specifically on the point that has just been raised about rail, in Wales there has been a new approach <strong>and</strong> now three community railway lines have been added to the National <strong>Concessionary</strong> Fare Scheme <strong>and</strong> these are ones that are regarded by the Welsh Assembly Government <strong>and</strong> all parties in Wales as being important as lifelines for parts of rural Wales. It seems important to keep them going so they have been added to the National <strong>Concessionary</strong> Fare Scheme. The written evidence of <strong>Travel</strong>Watch South West to the Committee suggests—<strong>and</strong> we certainly support this—that initially the lines designated as community railways in Engl<strong>and</strong> should be added to the National <strong>Concessionary</strong> Fare Scheme. Scotl<strong>and</strong> actually went through a process where they did try the kind of local reimbursement that is being used in Engl<strong>and</strong> <strong>and</strong> found that it was much, much simpler to organise it nationally. We think that it would be appropriate to learn from that experience from Wales <strong>and</strong> Scotl<strong>and</strong> <strong>and</strong> move towards a genuinely national scheme. Mr Barnes: Can I add that it is worth considering the London situation as well which of course is entirely diVerent in its funding regime. For many years now senior citizens have had the opportunity to travel on the bus, the underground <strong>and</strong> national rail, trams in Croydon <strong>and</strong> Dockl<strong>and</strong>s Light Railway, <strong>and</strong> because they are able to travel on the mode that is appropriate for the journey they wish to make people do not have to think, “This is the free option; this is the option I am going to use” <strong>and</strong> it has not had the worrying impact that quite clearly my colleague in the south west is concerned about. If you have the concession only on one mode it has an impact on other modes. Q403 Mr Clell<strong>and</strong>: Our colleagues here will be aware of the fact that the introduction of the scheme impacted particularly badly on Tyne <strong>and</strong> Wear Transport Authority who found themselves with a £7 million shortfall <strong>and</strong> in order to make up for that some smaller services had to be cut <strong>and</strong> in particular the Team <strong>Travel</strong> Scheme (which was a scheme to help young people travel on a concession) had to be cut back as well. Are you aware of any other unintended consequences of the concessionary
Transport Committee: Evidence Ev 49 12 December 2007 Mr Stephen Joseph, Mr Anthony Smith, Mr Rufus Barnes <strong>and</strong> Mr Gordon Edwards travel scheme? Have other concessions been cut back in order for authorities to be able to implement it? Mr Joseph: One example where this unintended consequence came to South Yorkshire was as a result of the shortfall the Passenger Transport Executive started to charge buses a departure tax at bus stations. Stagecoach, for one operator, charged an extra fare if you were going to those bus stations. Q404 Chairman: That is a unique idea, charging at a bus station to get on a bus. Mr Joseph: Exactly. This does not make any sense to passengers at all. In answer to an earlier question about where we can get evidence from on this, what we can get evidence on is the percentage of the average adult fare passed over to operators in each local authority area. That evidence is available. In the Sussex example I gave 41.9%, for instance, of the average adult fare is being passed over compared with 73.6% in Wales, which does give you some indication of the level of shortfall. I think the particular argument in SheYeld or the result in Tyne <strong>and</strong> Wear are not defensible but to go back to the point I made, the root of this is the level <strong>and</strong> formula for reimbursement. Q405 Mr Clell<strong>and</strong>: Do we think that the new specific grant is likely to go anywhere at all towards resolving any of these problems? Mr Joseph: I think the jury is out on that. Actually when I have heard presentations from the relevant Department for Transport oYcials they have admitted that it is fingers in the air stuV. They really do not know where the travel is going to be; they have made a best guess. We area concerned that particularly in things like tourist honey pot areas or, for that matter, in London <strong>and</strong> some other big cities, that there will be a significant shortfall which will appear in places like Blackpool, for instance, <strong>and</strong> there will be problems with that. Mr Edwards: Another unintended consequence, because the money goes down to district councils there are of course a lot of district councils that have received far more money for concessionary fares through the Rate Support Grant than they actually need to pay out. They are therefore able, because it comes as part of the EPCS element, to use that money on other services. If we had it all done by specific grant—which we support—a lot of district councils in the south west of Engl<strong>and</strong> would have a major problem in how they fund certain services which are currently being funded by concessionary fares money which is not being used for that purpose. We would fully support this Committee taking district councils out as travel concession authorities. Q406 Chairman: Are you saying that they are not good value for money anyway? Mr Edwards: No, we are saying they are excellent value for money, the concessionary fares, but as Mr Clell<strong>and</strong> has said, he has a shortfall in Tyne <strong>and</strong> Wear <strong>and</strong> we have a short fall in greater Bristol, but we have West Devon which spends less than 50% of its current money for concessionary fares actually on concessionary fares. Q407 Mr Clell<strong>and</strong>: Mr Joseph mentioned this rather novel idea of the bus companies charging passengers to use certain bus stations. Are there any other consequences for the fare paying passengers by the introduction of concessionary fares? Mr Joseph: As I said in my earlier answer to Mr Stringer, I think it is very much about cuts in the commercial services, increases in oV-peak fares <strong>and</strong> other things <strong>and</strong> Mr Edwards has also mentioned this too. It is much less high profile than the charges at bus stations or the loss of a particular scheme; it is incremental eating away of the bus network <strong>and</strong> incremental increases in fares. Q408 Mr Leech: Mr Joseph, the implication from what you said was that you were advocating direct payment from government to bus operators for journeys that are taken with concessionary fares, is that right? Mr Joseph: That is correct, as in Wales <strong>and</strong> Scotl<strong>and</strong>. Q409 Mr Leech: Why do you think it is that the Government will not support that? Is it anything to do with the fact that it is going to cost an awful lot more than they say it is? Mr Joseph: We are not experts on this but I think actually the evidence from Scotl<strong>and</strong> <strong>and</strong> Wales was that by the time you took in the transaction costs of actually routing it through local authorities it was actually cheaper for those respective devolved governments to do it directly <strong>and</strong> that is why they ended up with a direct system. It actually ought to be cheaper. The problem we have at the moment is that we have the imbalances that Mr Edwards referred to, money going to places that do not spend it so there is actually wasted money in parts of the system <strong>and</strong> shortfalls elsewhere <strong>and</strong> a national scheme would put that right. Q410 Mr Leech: Why do you think the Government is so against the idea? Mr Joseph: I think that is very hard to say <strong>and</strong> you are going to have to ask the Minister after this session that question. As far as we can see it is simple inertia <strong>and</strong> in-fighting between diVerent government departments in terms of routing through local authorities. Q411 Chairman: Inertia is very seldom simple. Mr Edwards? Mr Edwards: It is nonsense to have 291 travel concession authorities in Engl<strong>and</strong> all able to do their own arrangements for issuing cards, all with their own rules, all with their own local arrangements, all with their own back oYce, all being encouraged by the Government to sign separate contracts for 2008 ITSO cards. Mr Joseph is quite right, we need, like Scotl<strong>and</strong> <strong>and</strong> Wales, a national scheme with national reimbursement; we need to stop all these
Page 1 and 2:
House of Commons Transport Committe
Page 3 and 4:
Contents Report Page 1 Introduction
Page 5 and 6:
4 5. Smartcards offer a range of ne
Page 7 and 8:
6 Integrated bus ticketing 10. Thro
Page 9 and 10:
8 Long distance coach services are
Page 11 and 12:
10 strategy, including those in the
Page 13 and 14:
12 long-distance rail passengers ma
Page 15 and 16:
14 services have not been put in pl
Page 17 and 18:
16 Oyster on rail services in Londo
Page 19 and 20:
18 4 Revenue protection and
Page 21 and 22:
20 Staff safety 61. Transport staff
Page 23 and 24:
22 66. An integrated ticketing syst
Page 25 and 26:
24 Transport should commission an e
Page 27 and 28:
26 concession authorities that attr
Page 29 and 30:
28 operators and a
Page 31 and 32:
30 List of recommendations Integrat
Page 33 and 34:
32 Concessionary t
Page 35 and 36:
34 Formal Minutes Clive Efford Mrs
Page 37 and 38: 36 List of written evidence 1 Dr Ro
Page 39 and 40: 38 List of Reports from the Committ
Page 41 and 42: Oral evidence Taken before the Tran
Page 43 and 44: 14 November 2007 Mr Chris Austin, M
Page 51 and 52: Transport Committee: Evidence Ev 11
Page 57 and 58: 14 November 2007 Mr Keith Halstead
Page 59 and 60: definition of severe disability <st
Page 71 and 72: about how the data on the smartcard
Page 73 and 74: things around it. We have got over
Page 75 and 76: which comes out of the usage of the
Page 77 and 78: the impact of their behaviour on ot
Page 79 and 80: 5 December 2007 Mr Manuel Cortes, M
Page 81 and 82: 5 December 2007 Mr Manuel Cortes, M
Page 87: Transport Committee: Evidence Ev 47
Page 93 and 94: Mr Harris: I am sorry, I am not goi
Page 95 and 96: 12 December 2007 Mr Tom Harris MP <
Page 97 and 98: Q464 Chairman: Is Transport Direct
Page 103 and 104: 3.2 Conclusion—Smartcard St<stron
Page 119 and 120: Integrated Transport Memora
Page 139 and 140:
Transport Committee: Evidence Ev 99
Page 141 and 142:
Page 143 and 144:
Page 145 and 146:
Page 147 and 148:
Page 149 and 150:
Page 151 and 152:
Page 153 and 154:
Lostwithiel to Liskeard Transport C
Page 155 and 156:
Page 157 and 158:
Page 159 and 160:
Is the legal framework within which
Page 161 and 162:
The Use of Smartcard Technologies I
Page 163 and 164:
Executive Summary Memorand<
Page 165 and 166:
Integration Nationally Transport Co
Page 167 and 168:
Page 169 and 170:
— Ensure the confidentiality of d
Page 171 and 172:
Page 173 and 174:
Page 175 and 176:
7. What appeal mechanisms exist for
Page 177 and 178:
8. Are the rights of passengers <st
Page 179 and 180:
Concessionary Fare
Page 181 and 182:
Introduction Memorand</stro
Page 183 and 184:
4. Does the ITSO System cater for t
Page 185 and 186:
Page 187 and 188:
Page 189 and 190:
Page 191 and 192:
Page 193 and 194:
Page 195 and 196:
Page 197 and 198:
Page 199 and 200:
March 2007 1. Summary Transport Com
Page 201 and 202:
Page 203 and 204:
Page 205 and 206:
9. Do operators of public transport
Page 207 and 208:
Page 209 and 210:
Page 211 and 212:
Page 213 and 214:
Page 215 and 216:
Page 217 and 218:
Page 219 and 220:
Page 221 and 222:
Page 223 and 224:
Concessionary Fare
Page 225 and 226:
Page 227 and 228:
Ferry Transport Committee: Evidence
Page 229 and 230:
Page 231 and 232:
Page 233 and 234:
Page 235 and 236:
Confusion over what local authoriti
Page 237 and 238:
Page 239 and 240:
Question 68 Timings of Oyster <stro
Page 241 and 242:
show all

Ticketing and Concessionary Travel on Public Transport - United ...

You also want an ePaper? Increase the reach of your titles

Delete template?

Save as template?