Ticketing and Concessionary Travel on Public Transport - United ...

Ev 48 Transport Committee: Evidence
12 December 2007 Mr Stephen Joseph, Mr Anthony Smith, Mr Rufus Barnes <strong>and</strong> Mr Gordon Edwards
there is a danger that pensioners will get free travel
concessions <strong>and</strong> not have any buses that they can use
them on.
Mr Edwards: Since the first of April 2006 there have
been a large number of commercial services in south
west Engl<strong>and</strong> withdrawn <strong>and</strong> on many occasions the
bus company—a subsidiary of the major groups—
stated that the revenue from the routes has fallen due
to inadequate concessionary fare reimbursement.
We obviously do not have access to any financial
information to state whether that is true or not true.
What we do see, therefore, is that the local authority
then has to go out <strong>and</strong> put out a contract for a service
which usually, because of financial constraints, is
less good than the service that was previously
provided at substantial cost to public funds.
Mr Smith: Again some anecdotal evidence, but the
introduction of concessionary fares on the buses of
course has had an impact on the railways in some
parts of the country. Previously there was the bizarre
situation where the bus fare was more than the rail
fare in many rural areas. The introduction of free
bus travel has, to a degree, diverted quite a few
passengers onto the buses <strong>and</strong> away from the trains
where similar concessions are not available at the
present time.
Q400 Chairman: I think what worries the Committee
is how accurate is the information about this
because—I am not saying this in any sense in a
pejorative way—a lot of the information is after all
anecdotal. How would we obtain accurate research
that says what is happening <strong>and</strong> how widespread it
is in the event?
Mr Edwards: If I could draw your attention to a
report which was 179 from the Scottish Executive
Development Department after they introduced free
concessionary fares, they looked at the Lothian <strong>and</strong>
Strathclyde areas <strong>and</strong> said a significant switch from
rail to bus was measured by on-train surveys before
<strong>and</strong> after the introduction of free fares. The
abstraction was between 19% <strong>and</strong> 66% <strong>and</strong> it
averaged 46% for those two regions. I could give you
examples where we have seen abstraction on certain
railway lines in south west Engl<strong>and</strong> from rail to bus.
We now have a line like the Exeter to Exmouth line
which is basically becoming a commuter railway,
well used in the morning peak by commuters who
come back, of course, in the evening. During the day
the over-60s who used to use that service now go by
bus because it is town centre to city centre every 12
minutes, low floor, free.
Q401 Mr Martlew: Is that a problem?
Mr Edwards: In the south west we are worried about
the financial viability of our railway lines because
many of our railway lines are community railway
lines, have been designated by the DfT <strong>and</strong> they are
supposed to grow custom. However, you have
somewhere like Looe to Liskeard, Penzance to St
Ives where, in the winter, people, because of the high
percentage of concessionary fare holders in those
area, are now using competing bus services <strong>and</strong> not
using trains.
Mr Smith: I think that is a good question, does it
matter? From the passengers’ point of view of course
it is potentially of great benefit in the short term, but
in the longer term the railways in these areas are
subsidised by the Government for a purpose <strong>and</strong> if
that purpose is not being fulfilled you would hope
there would be a bit of joined up thinking about
which mode of transport is going to be favoured by
the public subsidy, but it appears to be approached
in separate parts.
Q402 Graham Stringer: Is there anything to be
learned from the experience in Wales or Scotl<strong>and</strong> or
Northern Irel<strong>and</strong> in relation to the introduction of
the national concessionary fares scheme? We have
had some very interesting examples, but are there
other lessons that can be learned which the
Government should be applying to Engl<strong>and</strong>?
Mr Joseph: Specifically on the point that has just
been raised about rail, in Wales there has been a new
approach <strong>and</strong> now three community railway lines
have been added to the National <strong>Concessionary</strong>
Fare Scheme <strong>and</strong> these are ones that are regarded by
the Welsh Assembly Government <strong>and</strong> all parties in
Wales as being important as lifelines for parts of
rural Wales. It seems important to keep them going
so they have been added to the National
<strong>Concessionary</strong> Fare Scheme. The written evidence
of <strong>Travel</strong>Watch South West to the Committee
suggests—<strong>and</strong> we certainly support this—that
initially the lines designated as community railways
in Engl<strong>and</strong> should be added to the National
<strong>Concessionary</strong> Fare Scheme. Scotl<strong>and</strong> actually went
through a process where they did try the kind of local
reimbursement that is being used in Engl<strong>and</strong> <strong>and</strong>
found that it was much, much simpler to organise it
nationally. We think that it would be appropriate to
learn from that experience from Wales <strong>and</strong> Scotl<strong>and</strong>
<strong>and</strong> move towards a genuinely national scheme.
Mr Barnes: Can I add that it is worth considering the
London situation as well which of course is entirely
diVerent in its funding regime. For many years now
senior citizens have had the opportunity to travel on
the bus, the underground <strong>and</strong> national rail, trams in
Croydon <strong>and</strong> Dockl<strong>and</strong>s Light Railway, <strong>and</strong>
because they are able to travel on the mode that is
appropriate for the journey they wish to make
people do not have to think, “This is the free option;
this is the option I am going to use” <strong>and</strong> it has not
had the worrying impact that quite clearly my
colleague in the south west is concerned about. If
you have the concession only on one mode it has an
impact on other modes.
Q403 Mr Clell<strong>and</strong>: Our colleagues here will be aware
of the fact that the introduction of the scheme
impacted particularly badly on Tyne <strong>and</strong> Wear
Transport Authority who found themselves with a
£7 million shortfall <strong>and</strong> in order to make up for that
some smaller services had to be cut <strong>and</strong> in particular
the Team <strong>Travel</strong> Scheme (which was a scheme to
help young people travel on a concession) had to be
cut back as well. Are you aware of any other
unintended consequences of the concessionary