Ticketing and Concessionary Travel on Public Transport - United ...

Ev 44 Transport Committee: Evidence
12 December 2007 Mr Stephen Joseph, Mr Anthony Smith, Mr Rufus Barnes <strong>and</strong> Mr Gordon Edwards
current fare rises the relentless pressure on walk up
<strong>and</strong> go fares continues <strong>and</strong> we are moving towards a
very diVerent type of railway which, in some ways,
on longer distance travel, is becoming more of an
EasyJet type booking system. This is happening
without any public debate <strong>and</strong> really at the behest of
the operators largely to suit their convenience.
Q381 Mrs Ellman: Passenger Focus is there looking
at the needs of passengers, have you done any
research on the views of passengers <strong>and</strong> particularly
those who do not want to have to go down this
route?
Mr Smith: It is quite clear that many passengers
value the ability to be able to turn up at the railway
station <strong>and</strong> purchase a ticket on the day of travel
either because they want to be suYciently flexible
about their plans or they want to talk to a member
of staV which is very important. I do not think the
rail industry is ever going to be able to get rid of
ticket windows because people want to talk to staV.
Some of the products are complicated; they need to
have a discussion with a human being about them.
People like the railway because it has that turn up
<strong>and</strong> go ability. I think it is one of the railway’s great
attractions <strong>and</strong> selling points that you can do that,
you can turn up <strong>and</strong> go.
Q382 Mrs Ellman: Has Passenger Focus made
representations to the operators <strong>and</strong> to government
to pursue the views of those people?
Mr Smith: Yes, we have. We have made strong
representation both to government <strong>and</strong> to the
operators <strong>and</strong> to the Association of Train Operating
Companies but I think some of the realities of the
pressure on space on the railways is pushing the
operators towards trying to get people to book in
advance. A lot of people are very comfortable doing
that <strong>and</strong> we should not decry it because you can
travel very, very cheaply if you book in advance. The
great benefit of the railway is that you can turn up to
go. It is a social service, it is a public service <strong>and</strong> it
should be available when you want to use it within
reason.
Mr Joseph: We have recently been focussing on the
closure of travel centres at various railway stations.
South West Trains are leading the way on this <strong>and</strong>
we think other operators will follow it. We are
concerned about this for a number of reasons, firstly
because, as Mr Smith said, some of the railway
products are complicated <strong>and</strong> people like to be able
to have the leisure to explore the options for them in
relation to travel which travel centres provide.
Secondly, we are concerned—from the aspect of one
of the other things the Committee is interested in—
with penalty fares. If you have no travel centre <strong>and</strong>
relatively few staV at ticket oYces people will simply
be caught by penalty fares regimes because they have
not had time to actually buy the ticket in advance.
We have certainly raised these issues with South
West Trains; we have, as usual I am afraid, come
across a split between whether this is required by the
franchise or a decision made by the operator.
Responsibility, as often with the railway, seems to be
divided or passed between the two.
Q383 Mr Scott: How eVective do you think
Transport Direct is?
Mr Barnes: Transport Direct is an organisation that
is providing information rather than ticketing. It is
one of the organisations that fulfils this role, but it
is just one of those organisations, the National Rail
Enquiry Line is another. It is one organisation . . .
Q384 Chairman: Is it eVective?
Mr Barnes: I cannot really comment on whether it is
better or worse than any of the others?
Mr Joseph: In principle what Transport Direct is
trying to do is admirable <strong>and</strong> certainly some of the
new features that it has added to allow, for example,
carbon calculations of journeys <strong>and</strong> so on are
admirable too. Nobody else is providing car <strong>and</strong>
public transport comparisons. The problem seems
to be when you get down to the very local level of
journeys in that it seems to fail to notice the
opportunities for walking any distance or for cycling
<strong>and</strong> therefore does not include those as options <strong>and</strong>
some of the first <strong>and</strong> last legs of the journey are still
very odd. It is also reliant on the local public
transport information, for example the location of
bus stops, provided by <strong>Travel</strong>ine <strong>and</strong> from that the
local authorities. We have evidence from some of
our local groups that some of those basics are not
very well done. We have some concerns about the
detail although we think in principle the case for
Transport Direct is very strong but needs to be
developed.
Mr Edwards: The key barrier to the use of public
transport is the availability of information. At the
moment we have both Transport Direct which gives
live travel news but also provides a journey planning
system which people find quite diYcult to use
initially but once you get used to it it is fine. Then we
have all these regional travel line organisations
which do not have a st<strong>and</strong>ard format <strong>and</strong> do not
cross regional boundaries. Really we want to see the
Government take some lead in joined-up thinking to
ensure that there is just one source of accurate public
transport information which is easily accessible. Rail
fares are available on the National Rail Enquiry site,
they are also available on the Transport Direct site,
but on Transport Direct you cannot get bus fares.
On <strong>Travel</strong>ine South West from 2 January you will be
able to get the bus fares but no train fares. All these
bodies are publicly funded so can we please have
some joined-up thinking.
Mr Smith: I think Transport Direct is a big step in
the right direction. Information is key prior to
ticketing <strong>and</strong> I think what they are trying to do is
interesting because in a sense they are competing
with the satellite navigation technology you are
seeing in use in cars increasingly, that sort of
pinpoint accuracy of journey information. Public
transport has to keep up so it is a step in the right
direction, but clearly there is more work to do.
Q385 Clive EVord: Has the ticket fares on trains
coming into line with the zones improved the
underst<strong>and</strong>ing of the prices <strong>and</strong> the link between the
diVerent modes of transport in London?