Ticketing and Concessionary Travel on Public Transport - United ...

Transport Committee: Evidence Ev 43
12 December 2007 Mr Stephen Joseph, Mr Anthony Smith, Mr Rufus Barnes <strong>and</strong> Mr Gordon Edwards
Mr Smith: In terms of the national railways the
integrated ticketing works quite well inside the
railway network; it works less well when you try to
use rail <strong>and</strong> bus or a combination of some other form
of public transport. There are schemes which are
now being promoted, the PlusBus scheme whereby
you can buy a bus ticket relatively easily on top of
your rail ticket but we simply do not think that the
promotion is high profile enough at present.
Q372 Chairman: What about smartcards?
Mr Barnes: I think the smartcard is good in principle
<strong>and</strong> we are delighted that the Government has
pressed national rail to accept Oyster in the London
area. We are worried about the implementation
arrangements for that.
Q373 Chairman: In what sense?
Mr Barnes: We are very aware that the
Government’s concern is that the ITSO product
should not be undermined by Oyster. We are pleased
that the Government has said that Oyster has to be
accepted on all national rail stations in its pay as you
go concept but we are aware that there are going to
be diVerences across London that are going to be
really problematic <strong>and</strong> confusing for passengers.
Q374 Chairman: You have presumably drawn that
to the attention of the Government; what response
have you received?
Mr Barnes: The Government appears to be saying
that if some companies oVer one thing <strong>and</strong> another
company oVers another thing, then that is the
commercial world.
Q375 Chairman: That is what I am asking you: is
there a strategy behind this. Mr Joseph?
Mr Joseph: In answer to that precise question we
have not identified a strategy. In particular what we
have not identified is a strategy which would fit with
the current transport secretary’s express wish to
focus on door to door transport. There is, as my
colleague to my right said, a strategy for integration
within the railway; there is no strategy for
integration between rail <strong>and</strong> bus or between creating
a smartcard that will allow door to door transport
such as you find in many other European countries.
Q376 Chairman: Is that your view, Mr Edwards?
Mr Edwards: Yes, there is no strategy whatsoever
<strong>and</strong> we have made representations to the
Department for Transport when they have been
letting new rail franchises, that we wanted to see
some commitments in there around integrated,
multi-model ticketing. Nothing has happened
whatsoever.
Q377 Mrs Ellman: Are smartcards important or do
you think improvements could be made by existing
payment systems?
Mr Smith: The research we have done with
passengers shows that the smartcard is instantly
recognisable, people can see the benefits, they want
it, they would like it to be more available especially
in the London area with the pay as you go concept
on the national rail network. The diYculty with
smartcards on the national railway network is that
where you get longer distance journeys, where the
price is high <strong>and</strong> variable, there is a great reluctance
to store large amounts of money onto a smartcard.
It works very well for urban areas <strong>and</strong>, as my
colleagues have said, it would be great if those urban
areas <strong>and</strong> smartcards could talk to each other so you
could use them in Manchester, London or SheYeld,
but for longer distance journeys it is much harder to
see quite what the benefit is.
Q378 Mrs Ellman: What about outside the
London area?
Mr Smith: There are plenty of examples outside of
London—the <strong>Travel</strong>master card in South
Yorkshire, the Trio in Merseyside, System One in
Manchester—where smartcards work. People like
them; they are underst<strong>and</strong>able. As long as you have
a clear pricing structure, a zonal fair structure, <strong>and</strong>
people know what they are going to pay.
Q379 Mrs Ellman: Do you think that enough
attention is given to the views of travellers outside
London <strong>and</strong> there is not too much focus on
travelling within London?
Mr Smith: I think the existence of these other
smartcards indicates that it is a popular product in
all types of area <strong>and</strong> could be extended outside urban
areas. The fact is that the Oyster card is a very
prolific product in London; people have seen it <strong>and</strong>
a lot of people use it. In many ways it is leading
perceptions.
Mr Barnes: I think the issue about London is that
Oyster works <strong>and</strong> Oyster has been seen to work <strong>and</strong>
Oyster has been popular with users. It is first
generation. It is obviously the case that people need
to be able to have a product that is useable elsewhere
<strong>and</strong> I underst<strong>and</strong> your question, but we do not want
to lose the benefit we have seen of Oyster in London
because people want to have the ITSO product that
has a national benefit.
Mr Edwards: To go back to your original question,
there needs to be more done now, yes. In the south
west of Engl<strong>and</strong> there are 102 destinations without
railway stations where you can buy a through ticket
to. You can only book on the internet to 20 of those
102. For the other 82 you actually have to go to the
station <strong>and</strong> buy it. You cannot buy the add-on fare
with any advantage purchase ticket. Why cannot the
railway industry, with the technology that is
available today, just deliver that?
Q380 Mrs Ellman: Mr Smith, can I ask you from
Passenger Focus, do you think enough work is done
on looking at the needs of people who want simply
to be able to go to a station <strong>and</strong> buy a ticket on the
day? Is there not a drive to everything being through
Smartcards <strong>and</strong> other technologies to the exclusion
of passengers—I do not know how many—who
want to be able to buy tickets <strong>and</strong> travel?
Mr Smith: I think it is a fact that the move on the
railways is very much towards pre-purchase for all
types of travel whether it is through Smartcard or
through booking ahead. As we have seen in the