Ticketing and Concessionary Travel on Public Transport - United ...

Ev 40 Transport Committee: Evidence
5 December 2007 Mr Manuel Cortes, Ms Fran Hill <strong>and</strong> Mr Richard Sherratt
Q342 Clive EVord: Has anyone to your knowledge
ever done any cost benefit analysis of whether having
more revenue oYcers would actually bring in more
fares?
Ms Hill: I think the only cost analysis the company
did was how much it cost in wages for the inspectors
when we were having financial diYculties. We did
have ten inspectors <strong>and</strong> we are now down to four, so
perhaps that might show you.
Q343 Clive EVord: And no corresponding reduction
in income through the fare box?
Ms Hill: I would not have thought so. We have
recently introduced new measures where we have in
eVect a penalty fare if you have not got the right
ticket.
Q344 Clive EVord: How eVective is that if you have
only got four oYcers?
Ms Hill: It has been quite successful because what
they are now doing is following through, which they
have not done. It has only started the last twelve
months, where they were following through. If the
passengers will not pay the penalty fare they will take
them to court <strong>and</strong> follow them through that way, so
they have put quite a lot of publicity out about that.
Q345 Chairman: Do you have any diYculty in
getting people’s names <strong>and</strong> addresses, or are
Stokesters very good at volunteering information?
Ms Hill: We have got a few smartcards which are
used within the Crewe <strong>and</strong> Chester areas in
conjunction with Cheshire County Council, but
most of our tickets are paper tickets or the tickets
you can buy in advance for a week or a month, or
three months, <strong>and</strong> to get those tickets then you
provide a photograph <strong>and</strong> proof of your name <strong>and</strong>
address, so that is kept on a central database for our
revenue inspector. So we do not have the same
problem the gentleman was talking about from
London in actually getting the names <strong>and</strong> addresses
because we have got them on a protected databases.
Mr Cortes: Could I comment on the railway
specifically with regard to revenue protection? What
we find is that where there are staV about the
stations, whether they are revenue protection staV,
barrier staV or booking oYce staV, revenue is far
better protected than when you have not got people
around. So there is a direct correlation between the
amount of people <strong>and</strong> the visibility of staV at
stations <strong>and</strong> the ability of companies to maximise
their revenue. Whether or not people have got
enough powers is a very delicate situation because
these people are not police oYcers, they are ordinary
workers. They are subject to assault <strong>and</strong> clearly there
has to be good cooperation, not just with the law
enforcement authorities but also with the employers
putting into place good quality training on how to
avoid conflict, et cetera. Our view is that it varies
from operator to operator in the railway.
Q346 Chairman: Let us ask Ms Hill, because I think
this is very important. What is the health <strong>and</strong> safety
record in relation to assaults on your staV, both
revenue <strong>and</strong> presumably –
Ms Hill: The inspectors <strong>and</strong> the drivers?
Q347 Chairman: Does anybody divide it into bits?
Ms Hill: I do not know, to be honest. I do not know
what kind of –
Q348 Chairman: What is your impression?
Ms Hill: We do not get too many assaults on the
inspectors. I only know of one instance in the last
twelve months. We do get more instances with the
drivers.
Q349 Chairman: Is that drivers where they are sitting
in one man or one woman buses?
Ms Hill: Yes.
Q350 Chairman: So they are easy to get at?
Ms Hill: It depends. The most recent case we have
just had is where there was some kid messing about
at the back of the bus <strong>and</strong> they got the engine cover
oV, so the driver got out of the bus <strong>and</strong> was then
assaulted. In a lot of cases now they have protective
screens when they are sitting at the wheel.
Q351 Clive EVord: How could they raise the alarm?
Ms Hill: If they are assaulted? Some vehicles have an
alarm on that will just set oV <strong>and</strong> it sets oV a warning.
In other cases it would be using the mobile phone, I
would guess.
Q352 Clive EVord: That is a bit ad hoc.
Ms Hill: We have got CCTV on a limited amount of
services, but we have not got—
Q353 Chairman: What is the average age of the bus,
do you know? What is the bus fleet?
Ms Hill: Our fleet must be about the same as Mr
Sherratt’s, I would think, five to seven years, because
we are part of First Group so we have quite a
decent fleet.
Chairman: If you will forgive me saying so, a visual
check might not lead one to believe that they were
five to seven years old, but I am sure that is wrong!
Q354 Clive EVord: So there is no panic button they
can press to alert people to the fact that they are
being assaulted?
Ms Hill: Only on a few of the fleet, <strong>and</strong> certainly not
all of ours.
Q355 Clive EVord: Is it an issue you have taken up
with the bus operators?
Ms Hill: It is something which is taken up, yes. We
used to have a system which was a global positioning
system, but that got too expensive <strong>and</strong> that got taken
out, but it is something which is brought up under
health <strong>and</strong> safety. They are looking at putting in a
radio system which keeps the driver in contact with
the central control system.
Q356 Clive EVord: But that is mainly to tell him
when he is being late than for him to raise the alarm
is he is being assaulted?