Ticketing and Concessionary Travel on Public Transport - United ...

5 December 2007 Mr Manuel Cortes, Ms Fran Hill <strong>and</strong> Mr Richard Sherratt
Q330 Chairman: Can I ask you the average age of
your bus fleet?
Mr Sherratt: It is round about five to seven years.
Q331 Chairman: The turnover on most, certainly
fleets outside London, is about eight years. How
many of these buses you are dealing with are having
the new system put in?
Mr Sherratt: At the moment the trial is on about 18
buses on one particular route.
Q332 Chairman: Is that a requirement of the
contract they have got with the local authority?
Mr Sherratt: No.
Q333 Chairman: So it is something they have
decided to do because they could see it happening
<strong>and</strong> they are also paying for it themselves?
Mr Sherratt: Yes.
Q334 Mrs Ellman: We are told that the reason
booking oYces are closing is because passengers
want electronic means of payment <strong>and</strong> that it is
market-driven. What comments would anyone have
on that?
Mr Cortes: I have seen no evidence to that eVect <strong>and</strong>
actually when we did question London
Underground about their proposals to close
booking oYces in London one of the things they
have not at first, or actually even today, fully shared
with us is what research they have undertaken
specifically in those stations which are threatened
with closure that shows that is what customers
favour. The opposite is our experience because when
we have gone out there <strong>and</strong> engaged with the public
which uses those services we have had thous<strong>and</strong>s of
people signing our petitions against the closure of
their booking oYce. So what we tend to find is that
people are actually against the closure of booking
oYces. I think that people will want to see a mix. We
are not against using a mix of ways of being able to
purchase fares, but we should not be using new
technology to limit the choices of passengers. We
should be using it to actually extend the range of
choices passengers get.
Q335 Mrs Ellman: Has anyone any diVerent
comment on that?
Ms Hill: We do not actually cover—I think Manuel
is talking about mainly rail oYces.
Mr Cortes: Well, TfL covers the buses in London, it
covers the whole thing.
Ms Hill: Yes. We cover people outside London
mainly, so we do not see the same problem the TSSA
has seen.
Q336 Mrs Ellman: Young people in London now
have free bus travel. Has that led to any problems
for staV?
Mr Cortes: We do not represent many people who
work within the bus sector, so we have not seen any
significant increase of trouble, et cetera, to do with
people getting onto the public transport network. I
presume this is more to do with the buses, I would
Transport Committee: Evidence Ev 39
guess, but it is our view that in order to increase takeup
you need to have a good concessionary fare
process in place, <strong>and</strong> in that respect we do support
what the Mayor has done in trying to get more
people to use public transport, <strong>and</strong> particularly
young people, because I think research does suggest
that if people get used to using public transport they
are more likely to continue to use that mode of
transport in the future, <strong>and</strong> in this era when we are
all concerned with global warming <strong>and</strong> its eVects
actually getting more people onto public transport
networks must be a positive <strong>and</strong> good thing.
Q337 Mrs Ellman: Are there any views on the gating
of railway stations? Does anybody have any views
on that, in terms of its eVects on passengers or on
staV?
Mr Cortes: I think that while it may help to protect
revenue, it also in some instances has led to
aggravation <strong>and</strong> conflict at barriers, et cetera, where
some people have become very excited about the fact
that they did not have the correct fare or they could
not get through the barrier, <strong>and</strong> because there has
not been enough staV around people have just got
even more exasperated with the situation <strong>and</strong> then
when a member of staV has actually attended to
them they have caught the brunt of the person’s
discomfort with the situation. We are not against
barriers, as long as they are not, again, a substitute
for a physical presence, because there might be good
reasons why people might have bought the wrong
fare, may not have a fare, et cetera, <strong>and</strong> if all you
have got are barriers <strong>and</strong> people then having to
extend their journey while they wait for someone to
deal with their inquiry, all it is going to do is
aggravate <strong>and</strong> potentially lead to a conflict situation.
Q338 Clive EVord: Do revenue protection oYcers
have suYcient powers, particularly on buses?
Ms Hill: I can only speak for the area I work in, I
suppose. I work for First Group in Stoke on Trent
in the Potteries. I suppose to a certain extent as well
it depends how many bus inspectors the diVerent
companies want to employ.
Q339 Chairman: How many have you got in Stoke?
Ms Hill: We have only got four.
Q340 Chairman: How far does that extend beyond
Stoke on Trent?
Ms Hill: North StaVs <strong>and</strong> south Cheshire. We only
have four inspectors. It depends how much money
each company—because they are paid by the bus
companies—want to spend on revenue protection.
Q341 Clive EVord: So the bus companies in that area
just assume that everyone is particularly honest, do
they?
Ms Hill: I do not think it is that. I think it is the fact
that they do not want to spend any more money
on it.