Ticketing and Concessionary Travel on Public Transport - United ...

Ev 26 Transport Committee: Evidence
5 December 2007 Mr Roy Wicks, Mr Neil Scales, Mr David Cook, Mr Adrian Jones <strong>and</strong> Mr Greg Yates
Mr Scales: Probably seven to ten years is a good
average for the on-bus or on-vehicle equipment.
With smartcards it depends on the use really, but
because there will be so many in the field the price
will come down.
Q206 Clive EVord: Mr Jones, what sort of
complaints do you receive from passengers in your
area because you have got three incompatible
systems?
Mr Jones: We get quite a lot of complaints because
people find it is a barrier to movement. It makes
ticketing very expensive because you have to buy
two tickets if you are making two journeys across the
city, <strong>and</strong> all the buses in Nottingham terminate in
the city centre, or nearly all of them, so we do get
quite a lot of complaints, which is why we have
developed the non-smartcard, the integrated ticket,
<strong>and</strong> that sells quite well.
Q207 Clive EVord: Do you get a sense from the
operators in your area that they see the smartcard as
a solution to that problem?
Mr Jones: They see smartcard as the solution to their
own problems about how they can improve their
data <strong>and</strong> how they can reduce costs, et cetera. I do
not believe they see it as a solution to an integrated
system because I do not believe they want to see that.
Q208 Clive EVord: You described people coming
from outside Nottingham, travelling in <strong>and</strong> having
to pay the return fare. If a smartcard registered
where that person started his journey <strong>and</strong> that could
be recorded as where the cost should be borne,
would that assist local authorities <strong>and</strong> transport
operators?
Mr Jones: It would allow us a diVerent system where
the costs were attributed to the resident authority
rather than where you start your journey, but that
would require a complete smartcard system in place
for the whole country.
Q209 Clive EVord: So if we have a complete
smartcard system across the whole country, should
the card be identified wherever it is used, for instance
if someone came from Nottingham <strong>and</strong> started using
their card in London, travelling around the tourist
spots of London? Should it be possible to identify
that smartcard as being a Nottingham one <strong>and</strong> be
charged back to Nottingham?
Mr Jones: I am sure that would be technically
possible, yes.
Q210 Chairman: Can I ask you a child’s guide
question, because I am not sure I have got it quite
right. Did you say it was going to be a visual
recognition, or is there going to be a machine? If it
was a true smartcard, then you simply have a reader,
<strong>and</strong> I do not know how long that is going to take to
get into the buses. Another 50 years!
Mr Wicks: In the pilot we are doing in SheYeld we
will be equipping a number of buses on a couple of
routes with readers, ticket machines <strong>and</strong> the
equipment, but anywhere else in South Yorkshire,
or indeed anywhere else where there is not a live
smartcard system it will act as the present
concessionary fare pass, which you will show to the
driver <strong>and</strong> he will visually inspect it <strong>and</strong> then allow
you to carry on your journey.
Q211 Clive EVord: Mr Scales, how smart is a
smartcard then? Just exactly what will we be able to
learn from them in the future in terms of where
people bought their smartcard, where they started
their journey?
Mr Scales: The answer is, it depends, because we
have gone from a straight flash pass with some very
basic data on all the way to microprocessor-type
cards which have got lots of what we call
“functionality” on them, so they can do lots of
diVerent things. Again, if it will assist the
Committee, Chairman, I can give you just a straight
guide on what all the issues are from a basic card all
the way to a microprocessor card <strong>and</strong> the
explanation?
Chairman: I think it would, because I am slightly
confused.
Q212 Clive EVord: So am I, but I just wonder if ITSO
is setting a minimum st<strong>and</strong>ard that it wants to
achieve, identifying these sorts of problems of
reciprocity <strong>and</strong> being able to compensate the right
authority? Smartcards could the solution to that if
we plan it now?
Mr Scales: Exactly, <strong>and</strong> what ITSO does is to give
you an open specification that is Crown copyright.
Certainly there are over ten smartcards that needed
st<strong>and</strong>ards. There is a number of on-station machines
<strong>and</strong> there are at least two back-oYce systems that
are all ITSO st<strong>and</strong>ard, so they have got full
interoperability. So we are avoiding the VHS/
Betamax video recorder argument, where Betamax
was much the better product but VHS got more into
the field <strong>and</strong> then took over. So it is very much to
create an environment that is open <strong>and</strong> is
interoperable, so that many diVerent manufacturers
can bid into it, so that you are not locked into a
single manufacturer or two manufacturers that
might use mutually exclusive technology. It is all
about that.
Q213 Chairman: I want to ask you about ITSO.
How eVective are you?
Mr Scales: I think we are very eVective, Chairman,
after four <strong>and</strong> a half years of trench warfare to get
the specification out! Yes, it has taken a long time.
Q214 Chairman: You are good at trench warfare,
Mr Scales. I am not worried about you!
Mr Scales: I think we are pretty good. We have got
all of the key players around the table. We have got
the bus operators, the rail operators, the
manufacturers, the local authorities, the Passenger
Transport Executive group—Transport for London
have yet to take their place, but they have got a place
there—<strong>and</strong> the Department for Transport, so
everybody is there.