Ticketing and Concessionary Travel on Public Transport - United ...

14 November 2007 Mr Chris Austin, Mr David Mapp <strong>and</strong> Mr Richard Malins
not available over the Internet. The point you were
being asked very specifically earlier, on which I think
is enormously relevant, is if you are moving towards
more <strong>and</strong> more technology do you underst<strong>and</strong> how
some of this can exclude whole groups of
passengers? I must tell you unless it is a threewheeled
cycle I cannot see myself fighting my way on
to a train with a bicycle, but supposing I went mad
<strong>and</strong> decided to put a bicycle on at Euston to get to
Crewe, how could I book that if I cannot use the
Internet (although you tell me that Internet booking
is the way to do it)?
Mr Mapp: The vast majority of rail products are
available on the Internet.
Q69 Chairman: But this particular one is not <strong>and</strong> it
is not alone, is it? All I am saying to you is why is it
that you have a system that you are telling us you are
going to use more <strong>and</strong> more, that you are telling us
is very helpful, that you are telling us provides the
passenger with the right sort of information, <strong>and</strong>
then you are not able to say why certain groups of
passengers are excluded from using the system?
Mr Mapp: I think the development of the Internet
has focused on the major products that the vast
majority of customers wish to buy. I would accept
that there are omissions from the product range at
the moment that need to be addressed <strong>and</strong> PlusBus
is one <strong>and</strong> cycling is a second, <strong>and</strong> I think that is
something as an industry we do need to address.
Q70 Chairman: What about frequent <strong>and</strong> uncoordinated
bus timetable changes; is that going to
undermine PlusBus?
Transport Committee: Evidence Ev 9
Witnesses: Mrs Elaine Holt, Managing Director, First Capital Connect, <strong>and</strong> Mr Martin Dean, Business
Development Director First Group, First Group plc; <strong>and</strong> Mr Les Warneford, Managing Director,
Stagecoach UK Bus, <strong>and</strong> Mr Ian Dobbs, Chief Executive, Stagecoach Group Rail Division, Stagecoach
Group plc, gave evidence.
Q72 Chairman: Good afternoon to you, gentlemen
<strong>and</strong> madam, you are most warmly welcome. Could
I ask you to identify yourselves for the record please.
Mr Warneford: I am Les Warneford, I am the
Managing Director of Stagecoach UK Bus.
Mr Dobbs: I am Ian Dobbs, I am Chief Executive of
Stagecoach Rail Division.
Mr Dean: I am Martin Dean, Business Development
Director, UK Bus Division for First Group.
Mrs Holt: I am Elaine Holt, I am Managing
Director of First Capital Connect.
Q73 Chairman: Thank you. Did any of you have
anything you wanted to say before we begin?
Nothing at all. You know about the Government’s
strategy on integrated ticketing. What do you think
they ought to do to encourage rail <strong>and</strong> bus operators
to develop integrated ticketing arrangements?
Mr Warneford: I think they could probably help a
lot by putting some money with us into promoting
the schemes that we are already developing.
2 Note by witness: Insert “Edmonson”
Mr Austin: That was something we referred to in our
paper <strong>and</strong> I guess that is a concern. The suggestion
was that, if possible, there should be a move with
connecting rail/bus links to make the changes at
around the same time as the train time tables twice
a year, which are themselves governed by European
requirements, so that there would be some coordination.
Q71 Chairman: Integration is going to be enormous
<strong>and</strong> we have been talking about concessionary fares,
we have been talking about special simplified
systems, are you quite confident that if as an industry
you are required to move forward the companies will
not only be responsive to the complications that will
come with the new technology but they are in talks
with government about the implications of the
diVerence between the Oyster system <strong>and</strong> the ITSO
system?
Mr Austin: Yes, I think it is very interesting to look
at the historical perspective of this because the 2 card
ticket lasted for 150 years, the magnetic stripe ticket
for 30 years <strong>and</strong> now we are already talking about
changes to the Oyster system. It is going to change
more frequently <strong>and</strong> more dramatically over the
next few years then we have ever seen before so we
are going to have to be pretty light on our feet, <strong>and</strong>
we want to be doing that.
Chairman: I am sure we associate your Association
with lightness of approach <strong>and</strong> the ability to dance
round all the problems! Thank you very much,
gentlemen, I am very grateful to you.
Q74 Chairman: Such as?
Mr Warneford: PlusBus in particular which I think
for its simplicity has a lot of potential to grow
enormously.
Q75 Chairman: Do you agree with that?
Mr Dean: I think that is right <strong>and</strong> that is a good
point, but one of the things to say in terms of what
the Government has done is the block exemption on
ticketing to the Competition Act which has been
very, very useful in terms of allowing us to have
ticketing agreements between operators <strong>and</strong> not fall
foul of the Competition Act, <strong>and</strong> that is very, very
important <strong>and</strong> that has led to the development of a
lot of schemes, <strong>and</strong> PlusBus is a very positive one.
Q76 Chairman: Since both of you have got major
bus <strong>and</strong> rail operations—Stagecoach for example
have got nearly half of the shareholding in Virgin
Rail Group—why is it that there are not more
integrated ticketing schemes across all these diVerent
modes? Mr Warneford, why can I not go from one
to another on a Stagecoach?