Ticketing and Concessionary Travel on Public Transport - United ...

Ev 4 Transport Committee: Evidence
14 November 2007 Mr Chris Austin, Mr David Mapp <strong>and</strong> Mr Richard Malins
varying their travel time they will be made aware of
that, but in eVect it is the cheapest ticket for the time
at which the customer wishes to travel.
Q25 Mr Martlew: I can believe your figures because
if you are travelling daily in from Eltham you get the
st<strong>and</strong>ard ticket but I think the reality, if you are
looking at the amount of money people lose, it is
probably much greater than 1% of the total because
it will be on the long distance journeys that people
will get the wrong priced ticket. This is partly
because of the fact that the staV have a very
complicated system to work at <strong>and</strong> it is also partly
because some of the rail companies make it so
confusing, <strong>and</strong> deliberately confusing, that people
just do not know what is the correct price. You say
1% but what was the percentage lost to the customer
from this survey?
Mr Mapp: We do not measure it in revenue terms
but I think it would be a reasonable assumption to
assume that that 1% is spread reasonably equally
across all customers, in which case it would certainly
intimate a 1% revenue loss as well.
Q26 Mr Martlew: How can you say that because the
cost of a ticket from Carlisle would be £100-odd <strong>and</strong>
if you get it wrong by £25 that would be £25 but the
one from Eltham would be about £4 so if you get
that wrong it is going to be a lot less, is it not?
Mr Mapp: I think the simple answer to your point is
I do not know what the revenue eVect is.
Q27 Mr Martlew: Thank you.
Mr Mapp: However, I think it is a reasonable
assumption that it should be very similar to the
overall eVect in terms of the number of passengers
aVected by it. Perhaps I could just come back to the
point about complacency because I would really like
to emphasise the fact that we are not complacent
about this. We underst<strong>and</strong> that customers do get
sold the wrong ticket <strong>and</strong> we are doing a number of
things to improve our performance in that regard.
There are a number of things that we are doing over
the next 12 months which we hope will improve
matters for customers.
Q28 Chairman: Such as?
Mr Mapp: Most importantly, our proposals for fare
simplification, which were set out in the White
Paper, which we plan to introduce during the course
of 2008. That will introduce a simpler national fare
structure based on four ticket types <strong>and</strong> we hope by
doing that, in conjunction with the way in which
fares are presented on the Internet <strong>and</strong> other forms
of communication, customers will be able more
easily to make sure they underst<strong>and</strong> the fares on
oVer <strong>and</strong> obtain the most appropriate fare for the
journey which they are making. There are other
work streams that we also have, including having a
look at the way in which ticket fare choices are
presented on self-service ticket machines with a view
to improving those presentations. We are also
developing what we call the price promise,
something that was asked for by the Government in
its White Paper, where we will set out in clear <strong>and</strong>
simple terms the things that we will do <strong>and</strong> commit
to doing to make sure that customers obtain the best
priced fare for their journey.
Q29 Mrs Ellman: Are you planning to run down rail
ticket oYces?
Mr Austin: I touched on the point earlier. Run down
is not the right word.
Q30 Mrs Ellman: Reduce the availability of them?
Mr Austin: Clearly, as more people buy away from
the station, the need for ticket oYce staYng levels to
be maintained at their present level will reduce <strong>and</strong>
so the expectation is, yes, there would be in the long
run as people shift away to other forms of ticketing
a reduction in the cost of operating ticket oYces
through the reduction in staYng levels.
Q31 Mrs Ellman: You make it sound as if that is
driven by cost <strong>and</strong> not the needs of the public. Do
you not think that there are many members of the
public who wish to go to a ticket oYce rather than
use the other means, which might be very simple for
a lot of people but not for some people?
Mr Austin: Absolutely, <strong>and</strong> I am not suggesting in
any way that we will get to the point where there is
no facility at main stations to provide the service that
customers are looking. The fact is however that
more <strong>and</strong> more people, as Mr Mapp has indicated,
are choosing to book oV-line from the comfort of
their own homes, either via the Internet or via
telephone link or to use smartcard products like
Oyster which they can top up without ever going
near a station.
Q32 Mrs Ellman: Do the current regulations specify
a particular level of ticket oYce availability?
Mr Austin: Yes they do <strong>and</strong> that was my point. That
is set in aspic whereas the reality is that customer
dem<strong>and</strong> is changing. We cannot respond to that
because of the regulation.
Q33 Mr Scott: Do you think it is acceptable, if you
take for example London, you are penalised
financially if you use the old-fashioned commodity
called cash?
Mr Austin: Sorry to pause on that, I am not sure that
that is actually right. In what way did you have in
mind? I know there is diVerential pricing on the
Underground for Oyster but at the moment that
does not apply to national rail; the tickets are the
same price whatever method of payment is adopted.
Q34 Mr Scott: I was referring more to where you
would be adopting something such as that for rail?
Mr Austin: Inevitably as a joint product we will be
moving to the same sort of oVer that London
Transport has in areas where Oyster is accepted, yes.
Q35 Mr Scott: So people would pay a higher price if
they use cash?
Mr Mapp: At the moment we are not allowed to do
that within the regulatory framework.