Bare-Faced Messiah (PDF) - Apologetics Index

Interview - 28 August 1986
My first contact with Scientology was through a High School teacher who loaned me some of the
books. This was in Auckland, New Zealand. I joined the org as an employee in late '59. I was a
student at the time. The org was in two parts, HASI [Hubbard Association of Scientologists
International] and HCO [Hubbard Communications Office]. HCO was Hubbard's own office within
the org. I worked for HCO starting from end '59 and I started having correspondence with him. The
lady who had hired me, Betty Turnbull, was in charge of HCO and her husband, Frank, was in
charge of the HASI. LRH was displeased with Frank and Hubbard started sending me letters
expressing displeasure and asked me to do an investigation. They ended up quitting or were fired.
He accused them of being Communists and they were in the org to try and destroy it and sabotage
his plans.
I thought this org was supposed to be about improving people and helping mankind and all of a
sudden, my opening correspondence with the founder was about plots and Communists. He sent
me handwritten letters and telegrams and cables. It was quite a shock. I just figured I couldn't
understand these things. I just tried to rationalise the paranoia, after all he was a brilliant man and
had written all these books. I had to do a security check on Betty Turnbull and my recommendation
to LRH was that they weren't Communists and had worked hard to try and keep it going. I said they
were perfectly OK and he fired them.
I first met him at the beginning of '62 when I went to Saint Hill to do the Briefing Course. He was
friendly, down to earth and quite personable most of the time, though he would have occasional
flare-ups. In later years he changed dramatically. Then he was one of the boys, would chat over
breaks, insisted everyone called him Ron. Deification had not yet begun. I finished the course in
late '62 and went back to Auckland until the end of '67. I made one more trip back in '65 to Saint Hill.
Then at the end of '67 I transferred to the Sea Org and to Va1encia where the Royal Scotman was
in Jan 68.
The literature I'd received prior to going was quite misleading. It described an OT base and talked
about a land base in some foreign country. It sounded exotic and exciting, where LRH was going to
be doing upper level research and a few, select, highly trained people were working with him and
participating in it. Instead, when I got to Valencia I got in a taxi and was told to go to the port. The
instructions were brief and mysterious. I went to the port in a taxi and saw this dirty rusty old cattle
ferry tied up there. I kept trying to tell the driver we'd made a mistake. He kept insisting it was
[correct]. I got out of the taxi, went over to the ship and realised, "My God, this is the place!"
LRH wasn't aboard at that time. He was off doing the Mission Into Time cruise. He was off with
metal detectors, trying to find buried gold. The ship was rusty and dirty and they were still chipping
manure out of the holds, trying to clean it up. It certainly wasn't this exotic OT base! Within a few
weeks LRH arrived back and was extremely displeased with the Royal Scotman. The Avon River
came back into harbour and everyone was very excited - they were going to see him. He sent over
half dozen Sea Org people in uniforms, looking extremely stern, with clipboards. They were under
instructions not to talk, they just walked round interrogating the crew and ended up telling everyone
that they were in various lower conditions. It was very grim and unpleasant. After a few days LRH
came over, also extremely grim.
I went into the large room used as his office and didn't see him much, except when he walked
round ship once a day. He was extremely angry, walking around yelling and barking orders at
people. No one knew what was the matter - they just tried to stay clear of him.