Issue 12 Madison Beer Cover

HATC
Culture and Mental Health
Photography By Le3ay

MASTHEAD
EDITOR-IN-CHIEF
ALICE GEE
HATC TEAM
ALICE GEE
JADE POULTERS
BRONTE EVANS
MADISON DREW
CONTRIBUTORS
ALICE GEE
MADISON DREW
WILL MACNAB
CONTRIBUTING MUA
PHOEBE TAYLOR
JODI VAUGN
CONTRIBUTING PHOTOGRAPHY
ASSISTANTS.
MADISON DREW
BETTY OXLADE-MARTIN
OLI SPENCER
ANDREW ZAEH
CONTRIBUTING STYLING ASSISTANT
LOIS JENNER
FEATURING
MADISON BEER
JEREMY ZUCKER
LILY MOORE
MCFLY
AISLING BEA
MISS BENNY
IDINA MENZEL
WILD YOUTH
JORDAN ADETUNJI
KHAMARI
UPSAHL
CONTRIBUTING PHOTOGRAPHERS
AARON HURLEY
LE3AY
CHARLIE CLIFT
STEVEN GOMILLION
DANIEL PRAKOPCYK
MOLLIE MCKAY
SHAMAAL BLOODMAN
AUBREE ESTRELLA
FRANK FIEBER
MEREDITH TRAUX
CONTRIBUTING STYLISTS
PHOEBE BRANNICK
HOPE LAWRIE
IAN ELMOWITZ
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COVERS
Words Alice Gee
Photography Le3ay
Words Alice Gee
Photography
Aaron Hurley
Words Will Macnab
Photography
Steven Gomillion
Words Will Macnab
Photography
Charlie Clift
Words Madison Drew
Photography
Steven Gomillion
Words Alice Gee
Photography
Daniel Prakopcyk
Words Madison Drew
Photography
Aaron Hurley
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CONTENTS
8 EDITORS NOTE
10 MADISON BEER
18 JEREMY ZUCKER
26 MCFLY
44 AISLING BEA
50 LILY MOORE
72 IDINA MENZEL
82 MISS BENNY
92 WILD YOUTH
102 JORDAN ADETUNJI
108 UPSAHL
114 KHAMARI
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EDITORS
LETTER
You may find yourself asking what our Issue 12 guests
have in common. Well, the answer to that is authenticity.
Every guest featured in Issue 12 has found themselves
navigating who they are. Like a river, they always move
toward their authentic self, no matter the ebbs and
flows.
In a way, I breathe a little easier with the access to new
media more accessible than ever. As a young teenager
battling Bipolar, little did I know until my diagnosis at that
time that's what it was; I often struggled with where I fit
in, even if those thoughts weren't public knowledge. At
the risk of me sounding patronising to the next generation,
it wasn't a time where you were readily accepted
for your struggles with mental health. I could have only
dreamt of communities like the ones I've found since.
But simultaneously, I empathise with the polarising effect
that the internet and social media bring. Today your
whole identity can be torn apart in seconds by both
those you know, the open and anonymous in moments
of rage or judgement from the ignorant but also those
whose it doesn't fit their ideal. So I ask how we find the
strength to embrace our true selves. Our stars of Issue
12 delve into the notion with exploration and declaration
as they navigate their true being.
So authenticity isn't easy to come by. I know my teenage
years and twenties have often been challenging to
figure out who I am? Yes, we tend to know our values as
they rarely change, but do we really know ourselves?
It's a topic I'm keen we openly discuss and welcome
here at HATC, as with mental health experiences at
the forefront, the challenges often come hand in hand
with the topic of identity. Whether you find yourself
somewhere you never thought you'd be or you've been
denied the safe spaces that allow our true selves to
blossom, we want to encourage pride within ourselves
and the comfort that it's ok to be figuring it out. Our true
selves have never been more critical in a world where
ample mediums, environments, and even policies intercept.
The theme is a joint discussion throughout Issue
12, with each guest coming either to a conclusion on
the journey they have embarked upon or continue to
experience.
It's a topic Miss Benny openly discusses with us within
the issue. As she prepared for the launch of Glamorous,
Netflix's new comedic drama, we celebrate the
joy it's bringing to a new generation of the LGBTQIA+
community, where a world of beauty opens the doors
to a reality where every day isn't ruled by transphobia
or homophobia, instead a world where it's not only safe
but celebrated. Her vibrancy towards life glistens, remaining
iconically unapologetic, and she continues to
focus on healing for the world and her community.
Madison Beer herself has also found her answers have
changed over the years. As she finds peace in the empathy
she has encountered for herself, she also finds
herself in a place of understanding and reassurance in
calling out those who seemed determined to tear down
her identity. As she tells HATC, it's all about honesty, including
her vulnerabilities, Madison utilises her experiences
writing hit after hit. Although she admits she has
to battle occasional imposter syndrome, she radiates
comfort in herself and the exciting things to come.
As we continue to investigate and delve into 'who am I
deep down,' every guest finds comfort in conversations
with themselves and us about what they care about,
and less so what others do. Authenticity becomes
every one of our guests through their words, actions,
and behaviours that are closely matched. There is
no longer time for those who intend to harm our true
selves and identities. We are a community where authenticity
becomes us.
Editor-in-Chief
Alice Gee
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When I think of Madison Beer, many words pop to mind,
strength, determination, authenticity, with resilience right
up there alongside. There's more than meets the eye.
There's more than a pop icon who can turn out one hell of
a show. There's more than the girl spotted by Justin Bieber,
and there's more than what she's endured over the
years. There's a whole identity where kindness remains at
the forefront. Kindness for her fans but also now herself. As
the clock turns the to hour, I join a prompt Madison over a
call with it being early morning UK time, almost midnight
in LA.
You're a trooper, I tell Madison, even more so a night owl,
the complete opposite of myself. "I much prefer it. I stay
up until 3am most nights." It's terrible, she exclaims, telling
me she'll do almost anything to avoid early morning calls.
Madison knows the scenario herself, and as someone myself
who takes to bed around 9:30 most nights to ensure
I'm up early, it seems her internal body clock has come to
terms with the mornings a little better than my own, waking
up naturally even after a late night. I guess it comes in
handy when on the road touring, state to state, country to
country. "It's funny. I was on a really good sleeping schedule
before I did my book tour in New York. I went to New
York and woke up on average at 5am New York time, which
is 2am LA. So I actually ended up switching my schedule.
When I returned to LA, it switched itself, so I couldn't fall
asleep before two." I'm not surprised, knowing all too well
the hard work when Jet lag is in tow.
Having been a fan for quite some time, I'm excited to be
able to sit down with Madison. It's an effortless moment
rolling out of bed, more so than in a while. In fact, it would
be reckless not to be excited - excuse the pun. I take the
time to talk to Madison about our aim as a publication, creating
communities and a safe space with mental health at
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the forefront. It's something I check in on, with the good,
the bad, and the ugly often cropping up in conversations,
only for Madison to tell me mental health is something of
a favourite to talk about. It's music to my ears, hearing her
speak of the passion she has for the topic, and having had
immense pressure over her career, I'm keen to talk about
the pressures that come within the public eye, something
that presented itself instantly overnight following Justin
Bieber's online reaction to her cover of his music in 2012.
Being 24 and crediting her career to its beginning 12 years
ago, her answer differs from others she may have given
over the years when talking about the revolving pressure
in the industry.
"I feel like my answer has changed throughout the years
a lot. I answer that question much differently than I would
have when I was 18/19 years old or even 14. I feel, first and
foremost, that I've been able to have perspective and look
back at the last 12 years. I have a lot of empathy for myself
and take away so much of that. I don't know if shame is
the right word. Still, for a really long time, I was made to
feel like getting bullied relentlessly and being told to kill
myself was just part of the gig". In an industry known for
its dog-eat-dog environment, it seems it was no different
in assuming individuals like Madison should get a thick
skin suggesting that to toughen up was paramount. "Now
I look back. I know that's not true, and I won't let anyone
tell me otherwise." Madison empathises with her younger
self when talking about her with me. "I don't think how I
was treated on the internet was fair. Nor was it okay, nor
has it stopped. I'm an adult now, so I can handle myself. I
know who I am. I know my heart and what kind of person
I am." When you're 15/16 years old, there's no way you're
not figuring out who you are, I respond. "It was so hard for
so many years. It confused me more than anything. I didn't
know what was okay and what wasn't. I felt like I couldn't
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learn freely. I felt like I had to be overly cautious with
everything I said, the places I went, or the people I talked
to. It wasn't a normal way to grow up." There's an element
of pride as Madison opens up about the abuse and her
resilience in the face of it. "I don't think I would change anything,
but I am proud of who I am today. There's so much
that has happened to me as a kid that should have never
happened. And I think as an adult, being able to tell myself
that has actually given me a lot of peace."
In terms of peace, I wonder about the exhaustion that's
present while desperately asking for boundaries online
in a world where the word kindness is so easily thrown
around yet so tricky to find, especially in a world with social
media. I'm curious whether the limbo between the uncertainty
of what you'll receive makes it harder or if there is a
sense of therapy to it, no matter the reaction. I wanted to
know what is essential to Madison when sharing her reality
through her music?
"It's really about honesty. I feel like I'm in a place where
I can be honest and vulnerable and not feel that that is
a weakness. It actually feels more like a strength to me. I
think that a lot of my writing is honest. I try to let myself
channel all the hardships and use them to hopefully make
a great song if that's what I want to come out of it. I guess
I think let's make it all worth it. But it can be hard. Being
vulnerable in any capacity to a big audience is difficult."
It's all been worth it, Madison explains, and as for the connection,
she's felt writing from an honest place has created
a fan base, or more so, a community where grace is
not only allowed but encouraged. "They (her fan base) are
amazing. They're so receptive." In a moment of reflection,
Madison quickly rewinds and second-guesses how many
of her followers will read or care about the interview. It is
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overly modest, but the chance they will is all she needs.
"It's really awesome when people want to give other people
a chance and not just write them off as whatever they
read online. I think it's cool when someone wants to make
a judgment for themselves rather than buying into nonsense
and whatever."
The effect of years of judgment has played a part in her
struggle and growth in her evolving identity.
"My adolescence has been really confusing to me, actually,
my whole life, it's been something I've struggled with
understanding." Is it something you feel has been defined
by others, something you've searched for over the years I
ask? "I've only felt like I've been able to figure it out for myself
in recent years, but even still, I have moments where I
have this imposter syndrome, part of me where I just don't
feel like I belong anywhere and certain places." It sounds
tough. "It's hard, for sure. I sort of blame my very youthful,
pivotal years and having people critique everything I did.
Who even Am I if someone has something to say about
it. It's been a journey. I feel like I've now been able to find
myself a bit more". Having made it through or at least partially
through the maze that is public perception Madison
still has several questions. "Who is Madison? What does
it mean?" She asks, "I think we all forget that everyone is
doing it for the first time. We're all just trying our best. And
I believe that."
Hearing Madison's belief system is an absolute comfort.
I have found many questions left in the wake of trauma,
especially PTSD, so to speak to one another in the comfort
and safety of our homes on the subject is a breath of fresh
air. The honesty and vulnerability are absolute. I asked
Madison if, like myself, she found herself overnight having
no idea about anything or who you are anymore due to
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how our bodies present PTSD and the rebuilding of those
blocks.
"I think that trauma shocks our system, especially if it's
something you have never been through. It was an experience
that was so unique it was hard to process. It's like,
you're trying to understand what has happened and how
to make sense of it. And sometimes, you literally can't. It
can be confusing and completely throw off everything you
thought you knew about yourself. Because even your reaction,
you're like, I didn't even know that I could feel so
dissociative from who I am. It's such a bewildering experience
to go through a massive trauma, then to have PTSD
and have all these triggers that linger within your life that
you can't anticipate. They come on, and you feel it all over
again" The empathy felt is apparent as we connect. "It's
just so difficult. I often remember my first long-term relationship,
which I was in for four and a half years of my teenage
years. And I was like, who am I without this? Who am
I alone? I didn't know, because I'd never experienced it
before. We all have such a hard time being like, this is me,
especially when something makes you feel so unlike you."
Having been there, it's confusing however Madison won't
let others tell her any other way. "I know in my heart no
one can tell me otherwise. People have been throwing shit
at me my whole life. I know who I am, and no one's gonna
change my mind about it."
Such strong values and determination seem to have a real
place within Madison's reality. They have seeped through
every part of her life, as I'm sure it's been part of putting
on such a good show for the fans she so clearly adores.
I'm curious how expressing herself and letting go has allowed
her to bring her creative world to life so that she
feels safe completely being herself. "Specifically, touring
and that hour and a half i'm on stage, I can't really describe
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the true impact that has on me positively. I spent years believing
that everyone hated me and that I had no real fans,
that no one cared about me." When you're conditioned
into thinking that everyone hates you from 12 years old
onwards, there's no surprise you start to believe it. "So especially
this last tour of mine, I just had so many moments
of looking out at the crowd, taking a big bow at the end of
the show, and to me, it would feel like 20 minutes. I would
look around the room, make eye contact with everyone,
and soak in that moment, knowing these people love me.
People care and spend their whole night dressing up, planning
this, getting an Uber to come here and wait in line. It's
so rewarding. There are people out there. It changed a lot
for me mentally. It was the catalyst to make me truly want to
live and feel loved. I will never forget those moments, and I
will spend the rest of my life chasing them forever."
I can feel a breath of fresh air and the overwhelming sense
of relief from Madison. It's a feeling she's tried to emulate
on tour over the years, taking a little piece of home with
her. "There's a couple of things that I do. On my first tour,
which was my EP tour, I brought these two little stuffed animals
that I've had since I was born. I brought those on the
road with me on my US tour. I don't remember fully, but
I'm pretty sure the anxiety of having them on the road was
part of it too. Still, it was helpful to me." And as for a routine
that has become part of unwinding from the adrenalin? "I
always make sure that whatever bus I have have a shower
because that's part of my unwinding routine: taking
a shower and getting in bed. I have a heating pad that I
sleep with at night, even candles something as simple as
that, and a comfy blanket that smells like home is enough
for me." And as hard as it can be with separation anxiety
from home, Madison explains. "I'm a very homey person. I
feel safest when I'm home."
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With her new album on the way, I ask about the priorities
involved in creating new music and the parts of the album
she hopes to convey to fans. "There's been so many, I'm
just excited to get it out. But my vulnerability on this album
has made me feel really proud of myself. There are
many songs that I'm sincere in ways that I didn't think I
ever could be. I'm just trying to give myself kudos and say,
damn, people really wanted to knock you down, and you
didn't let them. It's a testament to you and your strength.
We must tell ourselves things like that. We would tell our
best friends or family, so why not yourself. So I listened to
the album and said I'm proud of you to myself."
In terms of giving herself a little grace, that's her goal. "I
feel true that that's my truth now."
And in terms of what Madison does regarding self-preservation,
she has two answers for me; the first is to not be
hard on herself. After all, she's not a songwriting machine.
Secondly, the other part of herself is comforting the side
of herself that has the capability of doubt and gaslighting
herself "I get upset and wonder If if I'm creative enough?
We all get in those sort of mental spaces where we gaslight
ourselves into thinking the worst, but I try to not do
that as often" it's something she just doesn't subscribe to.
As Madison embraces things she's found immense joy in
within her creative practice, including directing her music
videos, it seems her mission has become more about autonomy
and exploration instead of being hard herself. After
all, it's been a long time coming to feel her own truth.
Words Alice Gee
Photography Le3ay
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With the release of Jeremy Zucker's latest EP, "is nothing sacred?",
from what I've gathered, it marks the beginning of an exciting new
chapter in an illustrious career. Taking the time out of his busy schedule,
Jeremy sat down with us to take a couple of steps backward with
me giving me a glimpse down the road that has led him to where he
is today—a multi-platinum singer, songwriter, and producer with over
9.5 billion global streams and 4 million album sales.
There's a lot to unpack, so let's delve back past these seven and a half
years since his debut release, 'Beach Island'. I was interested in hearing
where it all took off. Growing up in a household filled with music,
it was only natural for it to become an inseparable part of their later
life. They described music as the constant "background noise' to me
doing more 'normal' things." A "background noise" that has followed
him throughout many of life's explorations.
From his first job as a snowboard instructor, "I needed to make money
at the time, and so I became a snowboard instructor because it was
something I knew how to do", to pursuing molecular biology at Colorado
College, Jeremy excelled in various fields. However, it became
evident that music was where he discovered his passion. "I studied
biology because it was a subject I was naturally the best at. I think
I'm generally just curious, so, naturally, I have bounced around doing
many different things, dipping my toes in all these different places."
Throughout this journey, he intertwines music, consistently creating
and composing alongside these diverse ventures.
Upon graduating from College in May of 2018, that same month, Jeremy
made a significant stride by releasing his EP "glisten". An EP featuring
one of his most acclaimed tracks, 'all the kids are depressed'.
The essence of this particular song was to give legitimacy to depression
and bring awareness to its existence, assuring individuals that
they need not conceal their struggles behind a smile. "I wanted to
address that it was and still is okay to struggle with mental health.
The making message of that release was that you are not alone—more
people than you think are going through it." He went on to explain
how the purpose of his music video was used to help encapsulate
that. "That's a lot of what the music video touched on. We told different
people stories and illuminated something that is kind of taboo to
talk about."
Curiosity led me to delve deeper into who Jeremy is behind the mu-
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sic. And to Jeremy, authenticity is integral to how he portrays himself.
There are no hidden agendas or hiding behind masks; Jeremy's
music truly reflects his emotions and experiences. When asked how
he would describe himself behind the songs, he replied, "The same
person releasing the music. It's authentic to me. I'm not hiding behind
anything."
Then in 2020, with a string of EPs now under his belt, it was time for
the real test of their debut album, 'love is not dying.' Immediately
entering Billboard's Top 100 and reflecting on this, Jeremy shares,
"At the time, it was really hard to gauge the success of it because
it came out right at the beginning of the pandemic, but I was just
excited to get it off my chest. Seeing it on the charts was awesome
to see. I hoped for my album to be my biggest project so far at the
time. After a little while, I stopped looking up whatever accomplishments,
or lack thereof, it was getting because I was looking towards
the next thing!"
Gaining platinum multiple times over and amassing more than 9.5
billion streams, I wondered if these numerical milestones felt similar
to him, what significance they held for him, and how he viewed them.
"There's a big disconnect, but I think that's a result of this post-internet
music era that we live in. It's at the point for me where the numbers
kind of stop meaning everything. I guess I have a good base
value for what is impressive for someone with my history, but it's still
really abstract to think about the number of streams and listeners.
The only thing that hits me as a real statistic is how many people are
at the show and how the room feels when I play a set."
With the US tour coming up in October, Jeremy expressed genuine
excitement. "I'm most excited to play the new music to people and
to revisit older songs. I can't wait to play these songs for the fans
because it's an indescribable feeling."
Jeremy's latest tour is dedicated to promoting his latest EP, 'is nothing
sacred?'. It serves as a shout into the void, a question born of
frustration, and a call to action. An introspective EP that acts as a passionate
outcry to an indifferent universe, taken from a deep longing
for connection and dissatisfaction with apathy and detachment that
may have once seemed appealing but ultimately led to isolation. In
a world increasingly disconnected, Jeremy questions the value of
these emotions and inspires listeners to embrace selflessness, care
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Words
Will Macnab

for others, and cherish the beauty of the present moment. The artist
fearlessly dismantles the self-constructed walls of their psyche,
allowing vulnerability and emotional honesty to shape these songs.
As the interview came to an end, I asked Jeremy if there was anything
he had learned or focused on in the past few years that he felt
was still really important to him now. "I recently discovered the word
"Sonder" and its meaning. It's the sudden realisation that everyone
around you is living their own life completely separate from yours.
Everyone is just at a random point in their day when you see them,
notice them, or talk to them, and they go home to their own families,
lives, hobbies, and jobs. It's that overwhelming realisation. It put a lot
of things into perspective for me.
Words Will Macnab
Photographer Meredith Traux
Stylist Ian Elmowitz
MUA Jodi Vaugn
Photography Assistant Andrew Zaeh
In a world where we often become consumed by our thoughts and
goings-on, we often lose sight of the fact that each person we encounter
is navigating their unique journey. And to me, this feels like
what 'is nothing sacred?' is about, inviting us to raise our gaze and
appreciate the inherent beauty in our shared humanity. It beckons us
to step outside the boundaries of our own experiences and embrace
the transformative power of genuine connection.
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Getting McFly in a room, not once but twice for our Issue 12 cover,
is a significant win for me and my younger self. With her in mind,
the nostalgia is real, with the band needing no introduction. As I
set up for our podcast episode in their London studio, it's quite
the space, about 5 times my London flat. Having created a home
away from home in COVID, it's the base they call home in terms of
their music. I initially delve into the world that is McFly with Danny,
Dougie, and Harry, with Tom catching up with me over the phone
before in person a few weeks later on ourshoot. In the live room,
as we shoot their inside feature, the band has their backs to one
another, playing a montage of melodies as we shoot them on their
home territory. Every now and again, silence breaks out as they
wait for the music to drop, perfectly in sync. They laugh and thrive
taking the mick out of one another, if not perfectly on point. It's
incredibly polished, as I wonder how well you have to know one
another to predict each other's next moves practically blindfolded.
Post the grand tour of the studio, which I can confirm is epic, I learn
about the role it's had to play in making their new and 7th album,
'Power to Play.' Already I can tell the importance of this album. In
their words, it's the album they've dreamed of making. Music that
is authentically them. As I get comfy, mic in hand, they tell me how
they are alive they feel as a group and individuals, possibly the
most alive they've ever felt making an album. They really are as
lovely as their reputation, just even funnier. What I love about McFly
is no matter how much life has changed for the band, with families,
and new career avenues in tow, the band has been through it all
but as one family. The love for one another is so apparent that even
on shoot, I can confirm they still make each other laugh like it's the
first time. In fact, I'm yet to see imagery from a shoot where there
aren't so many smiles. It's like they are laughing for the first time all
over again.
A: Being here in the studio with you is so lovely. It's huge!
Harry: It's our sanctuary. It's amazing for us to have this safe space.
It's been our base for the past two and a half years. And it's where
we made the album. We've captured something here that's really
special. It's given us the time to almost have our own apartment
again and hang out together.
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Danny: With COVID shutting everything down, we wanted to rent
the big live room and the owner said they would be closing the
whole thing down, so we took on the whole building. So we've
got the live room and built this studio we're sitting in now. And
upstairs, we've got a big space which is our meeting space. So all
our equipment's here. It's the dream to rehearse and record here.
It's amazing.
Dougie: I Literally live here. Never go home. It only needs a shower.
It's the only thing that stops me sometimes when we're doing late
nights and early mornings.
A: I love it, plus I'm really nosy. I love the memorabilia upstairs (and
in the bathroom). I'm impressed by how it's so neat everywhere!
Harry: When we first lived together, my room was disgusting.
A:. I've watched your documentary. I've seen it all.
Danny: Dougie's room was the smoking room. God, your bedroom
was so hot. It was like walking into the Bahamas.
Harry: Danny had a walk-in wardrobe and his studio. He and Tom
were in the band when they got the house, so Tom had first dibs,
including a balcony.
A: Everyone crammed into one smoking room. I watched the documentary,
and we all know what it's like at that age when you move
in somewhere. I'm a clean freak, so mine was never like that. But
a lot of my friends, you needed a tetanus shot after entering their
room.
Harry: We had a cleaner. Someone came in and cooked, not that
we really ate the meals. Someone from management must have
been worried that we weren't getting the proper nutrition.
Dougie: Nobody cleaned up after themselves. So if something got
dumped there in the middle of the room, that's where it lived forever.
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A: You were living the best life. For young guys, in the charts, creating
music, living your dream, I understand the last thing you'd
do is clean.
Dougie: It's different here with the studio and with cleanliness. We
get annoyed if anyone's been in here and left crumbs.
A: That's fair enough. As I mentioned earlier, I wasn't going near
anything because I'm like a bull in a china shop. But it's a nice setup.
So it's an exciting time. You've got new music coming out. Having
had such success over the years, I wanted to discuss creating
the new album and finding its sound.
Harry: We had a big break from recording. We made our fifth album
in 2010, a greatest hits in 2012, and another in 2013. But then
McBusted happened, so we didn't release that album. We toured
with McBusted for two or three years. Then when that finished, we
had a two or three-year break before returning and doing some
shows. That's when we were like, let's make an album called Young
Dumb Thrills. That was 2020/2021, and it had some excellent
songs on there. But for me, it felt like a mishmash of pieces we
had just recorded. That album didn't really know what it was. So
when we came back to record another album, post-COVID, and
we had the studio, it was great as there were no time pressures.
We teamed up again with Jason Perry, and from day one had some
songs floating about to which he was just like, this is boring. So
we had this moment where he asked what we love about McFly,
and it all kept coming back to the same thing: Live music and how
we come across live. It's all about guitars, guitar solos, drums, and
getting kids excited about playing instruments and having fun. Not
taking ourselves too seriously, but taking the music seriously. It was
about simplifying things that allowed the creative process to flow
naturally.
Straightaway, Tom came out the next day and had this song called
"Where Did All the Guitars Go?". And that was it. We then got a guy
named Steve Patel involved. He had a natural vibe in the room but
is also a great guitarist and writer. So between us five and Jason,
we made this album, in which Danny produced about four or five
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of the songs as well. It's a very career-defining album. In fact,
it's my favourite McFly album ever. We finally have an album
where this band knows who they are. It's fun but heavier than
anything we've done before. It's awesome.
Tom: This is our second album since we had a four-year hiatus.
We did a bunch of writing the first time, not knowing
what the album would be. Because we were so excited, we
didn't plan what the album would sound like. But this time,
we wanted to have like a clear direction, clear vision, and
clear sound. We did this giant mood board and wrote all the
words about what McFly meant to us or what this album was
meant to represent and sound like. One of the most common
words we wrote was 'guitars.' That was a big turning point for
us. We are a band that loves making music, but specifically,
we're a rock band, and we haven't made the most of that.
For a long time, we were always overthinking music trends,
chasing what's covered, and worrying about how you can
get played on radio or playlists. This time we decided, let's
not worry about any of that rubbish. Let's write an awesome
album that kids will want to go and play air guitar to in their
bedrooms. That's how it started. We want them to catch that
bug of how awesome guitars are from a young age. And if
you can inspire them at a young age, it will change their lives.
We just wanted to write an album that would make it hard not
to pick up a guitar.
Danny: As Harry said, it's a switch in focus in terms of identity.
And what was most impactful is that the best moments in this
band have been when we've played live. We had the best
time looking over, seeing our mates, seeing the crowd, putting
the work in, and showing off what we could do. That's the
core. That's the beauty of this band. That focus went into the
album. How do we recreate that on an album? Rather than
thinking about how do we sell this album? Instead of how is it
commercial. What will it be like on the radio? This time it was
about who was going to be inspired by it? That was the focus.
A: Not only have you found your identity and where you want
to be, but the pressures from when you were younger and
setting out seem to be gone.
Harry: For us, we're lucky. We are an established band, so
we're fortunate to have our fan base. It's not like we're a new
artist with the pressures of TikTok like you mentioned. Don't
get me wrong, it's a great way for people to get their music
out there, but if you have a viral moment on TikTok, you must
follow it up. I imagine basing your whole music career around
trying to blow up on TikTok is a pretty depressing thought. So
to young artists, don't make that your focus. Even just releasing
one song seems rare, foreign, and strange to us because
the album is a collection of music representing you as a band
in that period, not just one song. It also depends on what's
important to you. Is getting streamed millions of times vital to
you, or is selling out a show important? Because I know a lot
of artists that can get millions of streams but can't sell out a
show. It doesn't make any sense to us. I'm sure it will, eventually.
When you create something, you never know whether it
will be successful. We don't know whether our songs will be
a hit. We are putting out the best work out there we can. It's
the same with this album. How can we curate a tour setlist?
What would this sound like if we only had this music to play
live? It's all down to a spec. I feel sorry for artists who don't
have people to rely on, like, for example, like us and having
each other. We can create this space and environment that
allows us to flourish, be creative, and make this album. We're
so lucky to have that. That's what we wanted to put out there
as well. This is a space that we want to celebrate.
Tom: 100%. I feel like most bands start with the freedom of
not conforming to your own sound as a band and what people
expect from you. We're not chasing anything. We are just
purely about the process of writing something exciting for
ourselves. Going back to that was such a refreshing experi-
ence for all of us. We did talk about other bands doing this or
that, but it takes work to get your head out of that mindset of
the shifting culture. But once we locked ourselves away and
once we understood the brief that we gave ourselves, it was
easy.
Harry: I think young artists would find it so much more therapeutic
to find their sound and then create an album. As Danny
said, we can't sit around like we have done in the past,
thinking, right? What's going to be here. It's still hard for us.
Still, certain radio stations won't play us. We can get on big
TV shows, but they also want to hear about old hits. They're
often like, well, you can play your new song if you play a bit of
your old song. So there are compromises along the way, and
the gatekeepers to that world aren't as interested in McFly
music. They're more interested in the story and the nostalgia.
So there are challenges for every artist. But for us, I think
that was why we're like, you know what, fuck it, let's focus on
making the album we want to make because it doesn't make
a difference anyway.
Danny: It's a shame, in a way, we're not in a great position to
be where we are in terms of being right on the line of commercial,
but function-wise, we are like any other band in the
world. I've always said this before: we try to be clever and
think, right, well, we're not getting played on the radio, so
what can we do? We'll go and play this album out there or
team up with this guy. But when we played that song live,
it was completely different. People preferred the version we
did live anyway. My point of the story, which I still need to
remember, is we can't be chasing streams, either. You just got
to do what's authentic and feels right for you as a band.
A: It's nice to have absolute clarity. Clarity seems to be a real
priority for you.
Danny: Going back to what I was trying to say before, I got
utterly brain fucked. When we try to go on the radio, people
think they know what McFly is. So this time, I was like, why
don't you give them a plain white record and don't tell them
who it is, and see what they think of that? Chris Moyles did
it and played it to his team on radio X, who loved it before
figuring out who it was.
Dougie: And then he threw up. And Chris, he's been sacked
(jokingly).
A: It's like no strings attached. It's just about the music. It
must be refreshing, especially in a world where it's not always
about that. How much have you fallen and are you still in love
with touring?
Danny: We've gotten to go to places like Japan or Brazil. And
we're perceived as a completely different band.
A: That comes down to the debate of identity versus values
because identity changes, and your core values stay the
same. How has your identity changed over the years?
Harry: I feel grateful to have joined the band when I was 17
because I don't think you will find your identity in your late
20s.
A: So it feels like a pinch-me moment. It must be nice to go
back on tour as well.
Harry: Literally catering. Not having to cook and do the washing
up.
Danny: I enjoy our hangtime going out for dinners. It's still
really exciting.
A: Picking somewhere to perform in the UK, where'd you go
for?
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Dougie: There's always a guaranteed awesome crowd in
Glasgow. They are always rowdy. Even if it's on a Tuesday
night or something.
Harry: For me, outside the UK, Brazil is amazing. Or a hardcore
fan base like in Japan.
Tom: The weird thing about the band is when we are touring,
I don't feel like I'm having to be social when I'm with the other
guys. I always enjoy their company. It's a different kind of
feeling. A different relationship.
I find it hard to connect until you're in a show, and you can see
people, and you're in it yourself feeling something. It means
a lot, but it's hard to understand until you meet fans face to
face, and they can talk to you on a level, so that's a really rewarding
experience.
Dougie: The older I get, the more I appreciate it. On the last
arena tour, there was a section where Danny and Tom played
acoustically. Seeing that side of the stage, I remember thinking
fucking hell, we can still do this.
A: How's it coming off the stage into that momentum and
adrenalin. How has it been being able to turn to one another
and have those candid conversations?
Harry: We've all been through stuff at different stages as well.
Tom: It's something that we don't take for granted. We've
been through our share of ups and downs over the years, so
we know it's the best job in the world. Getting out of bed and
going into the studio to make music with your mates as a job
can't get any better.
Danny: I'll never forget the time we spoke about our anxiety
attacks. We were about 19 or something. We talked about it,
and Dougie was like, "Do you get the feeling that you're just
gonna die." The ringing in your ears. Panicking, heart rate of
250, cold sweats.
A: Sometimes, the best thing is to talk about it. When you're
together with others, it always feels slightly less dysfunctional.
Harry: When you're going through it, it doesn't matter what
people say; it's a very lonely experience. Very, very frightening,
and incredibly lonely. But then, when you come around
on the other side, it's tough to connect with those feelings.
I crack on and tell myself I'm 100%, and I'm great. You can
forget that episode. So I must remind myself to be sensitive to
other people and think they might be going through something.
It can be hard to connect with it, even though I've been
through it. It's the most frightening thing. I wouldn't wish it
upon anyone. For me, it's worse than any physical problems
I've ever had. So it's always giving people those kinds of allowance,
I guess it's about taking a step back and thinking
maybe they're going through something.
Danny: I've learned how to control it better now. To enjoy
where I am and be present. That is a massive part of why I
used to forget my lyrics. I don't forget them as much now because
I can control my brain. There's once or twice when I'm
tired, and I feel a bit weird. But yeah, it becomes a fear of the
feeling as I don't want that feeling again.
Harry: I think, particularly now having children is where this
knowledge of mental health becomes a real asset, looking
at how I can help my children, trying to encourage them
through certain parts of life and avoiding things, things that
I did in my early days of the band that definitely contributed
to anxiety and mental health problems. I encourage my children
to avoid certain paths because, like anything in life, often,
something that feels like the most fun is a synthetic kind
of fun.
Danny: I've always tried to understand what it is. I think that
in my experience, it's always been my body exposing a specific
emotion, buried for weeks or trauma that has to come
out, whether in the daytime or nighttime. The very old-school
style of survival.
Tom: The difficulty with that is in the public eye. People are
getting used to sharing stuff when they're comfortable. But
in general, I still get it in hindsight. Typically, I feel in a good
space and ignore it retrospectively. I have been through a
tough time, and it isn't easy to share openly. Especially publicly
facing when you're in the middle of a crisis. I've never really
openly shared stuff like that before because it's not been
on my mind to do that. I shut off social media and public stuff
when life is overwhelming and difficult. But again, I'm in a
unique situation of having a career in the public eye. So that
can sometimes contribute to the pressures that might lead to
more difficult moments and periods.
I think I just shut off from wanting to talk to people. When you
are talking about it, it's something you're talking about. It's
your memory of that moment rather than just the actual experience.
I find it interesting when people can openly talk about
something they're going through, especially when they're
clearly going through a rough time. It's difficult to watch people
who are hurt and find it tough. But I'm aware that it can
be a gift. Sharing those things is important because they can
change your life and help people. The first time I considered
getting any mental health help was after watching Stephen
Fry's documentary. I only stumbled upon it by chance. It
wasn't like I was looking for an answer. I just happened to be
having a pretty difficult time. It was on in the background, and
I heard him talking about it himself and thought, Oh, my God,
he could be talking about me. Literally describing the brain in
my head. I just thought, man, I have been sitting here for the
last few months, going through a horrendous time. That was a
real eye-opener. If he hadn't been brave enough to share his
experience, I certainly wouldn't have gone and got healthy.
So it's essential to be able to share and talk if they or you are
in a place to do that.
A: That's probably the most tricky bit, though. Managing and
asking for the right tools to help.
Dougie: Actually committing to doing them and doing whatever
it takes to get to that point. In the last two years, I had a
massive thing with sleep. I wasn't sleeping; it had this massive
knock-on effect with other stuff. So I finally got some of the
managing under control, but I'm improving. I'm feeling better.
And finally, sleeping.
A: Oh god, sleep is such a key component in coping, I find.
When one goes out the window, the other things do for me.
What's helped you?
Dougie: Red lights, that's been a big thing. It's pretty sexy
too. They're all automatic as well. My place turns into the red
light district at 1030. Boom everything goes red.
Danny: There's Doug in the window (as they crack up). I remember
someone saying to me once that I probably spend
a lot of time as almost a victim of my own environment rather
than creating an environment that will help me be a better
person. That's massive. Like what Doug says, you can make
and choose to create your own environment to help yourself.
Harry: Oh, a good thing I had recently as well is when you're
going through something yourself, like, anxiety, irrational
thoughts, I always think, what would I be saying to my friend
in that scenario. I can give great advice, but talking to yourself
like that isn't easy. So many people struggle with these
things, like insecurities, but we all do, and it's important to
have that kind voice with yourself. So imagine yourself giving
advice to a friend and try to listen to that yourself.
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Dougie: The adult in me is pretty quiet in looking after the younger
inner child in me. He's not very nice at all. He's super critical. So I
have to say you don't fucking belong here. But if I stay on it, management-wise,
especially meditating, which I find more challenging
than exercise, that voice shuts up.
Danny: Everyone's different. It's about finding your thing. It might
take some time, and sometimes I've been lost, but it's about learning
where to find help. Don't get lost.
Tom: We are like brothers. And we've always had that. It's interesting
because we were not like one of these bands that grew up with
each other or childhood friends. But that bond, that instant kind
of brotherly connection, was so quick to form. It was fascinating.
When you put us all together, we gelled musically and creatively.
But once we had rapid success, it really united all of us. It gave us
that kind of unbreakable kind of brotherhood. Don't get me wrong,
we also fight and argue like brothers. But knowing that there's that
underlying family connection that we will always have, McFly will always
be part of who we are. We are united by that one thing somewhere
else in us. The challenge is that in the early days, we were
with each other all the time to make those relationships work perfectly,
but that can add pressure to your relationships. Now we're
not with each other all the time, we all have families, kids, and other
passions that we like pursuing, it's like the pressure is almost the
opposite of what it was. We all ensure we are on the same page as
bandmates and always check in and look after each other.
The brotherhood remains 20 years down the line, and as joy and
authenticity remains at the forefront of their passion and drive, Mc-
Fly continue to thrive.
Words Alice Gee
Photography Aaron Hurley
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44

Sat in my London office on an almost too sunny day in June
(too sunny to be sitting indoors, that is), Aisling Bea joins me
via Zoom call. Making the most of the glorious weather as she
strolls outside, we spend the next 45 minutes or so discussing
her latest project, her own portrayals of mental health, and
even her firm hatred for carrots—an unequivocal declaration
she made herself, without a shadow of a doubt, 100% not
fabricated.
Aisling Bea is an artist who needs no introduction to the
world of comedy. Making an indelible mark as a rising star
and going on to win the Edinburgh Fringe’s So You Think
You're Funny? From there, she quickly became a fan favourite
across panel shows with her chatty charisma and quick wit.
Not one to become pigeonholed into a single focus, she transitioned
into the world of sitcoms in both the UK and the US.
Taking her talents one step further, she wrote and starred in
her own Channel 4 comedy-drama, This Way Up. Over the
last few years, the Kildare-born comic has been expanding
even further on both big and small screens. Her latest adventure
sees Aisling centre stage as leading role, Rachael, in
Coky Giedroyc’s latest film adaptation, Greatest Days. Based
on the Take That musical of the same name, Greatest Days
takes the band's greatest hits from the past three decades
into an uplifting slice of summer escapism.
With Greatest Days' recent release just a few days ago, I wanted
to delve straight into how Aisling has been doing throughout
its release. We jumped into the interview to talk about
the film’s premiere. “The premiere was grand, but definitely
busy! I have a lovely stylist and team who I’ve worked with
for years, so that’s always nice. Those things are really work
nights out though, you know? I remember saying this when
I won a BAFTA during lockdown.” Jokingly, she adds, “Yeah,
don't worry about it.” As Aisling continued, it was clear this
was how events like these were meant to really feel. “What
made it special was that I could really let it sink in because
it was all online. I was in my garden with a sort of broken
arm, and ten friends were over. There were no thoughts of
interviews, talking to the press, having pictures taken of me
with someone there, or bumping into someone from work.
It wasn't a work night; it was a day to celebrate. It was such a
relief, having been in lockdown for ages that we could even
have people in our gardens again.”
When back to ‘normality’, despite what is and will always be
an amazing celebration, it feels like the magic seems to have
been slightly worn off. “The next time around, it becomes
a work event. You have a team coming in; there’s hair and
makeup—who are lovely—and you're wearing high shoes and
suck your tummy in, worried someone's going to take a terrible
photo of you that's going to be in the front of something
the next day. They become very much work events.” Given
the camera-heavy environment and the spotlights on everyone,
I ask if she has grown used to being in such situations.
“Yeah, and you know how to do it, especially with the comedic
part of my career. It means I'm okay with being thrown in,
given a microphone, and asked to speak. But there is always
this underlying feeling of, ‘Oh God, is there a wrong way to
answer this?’ It's not a safe space; it’s a guarded space, put it
that way.”
As viewers, we often overlook the buildup leading to a film's
release and the gap between completing a project and its
actual debut. “You create something, and it feels like the job
is done. But in reality, you work on something one year, and it
won’t be out until the next. You're a whole different person by
the time it airs.” Aisling recalls when she saw a trailer for Quiz,
a TV drama in which she starred, focusing on Charles Ingram
unexpectedly winning the £1,000,000 jackpot on Who Wants
to Be a Millionaire. “I saw the trailer and thought, ‘Oooh, I
want to watch that; that looks good’. I'd forgotten I was in it!
I had such a good time filming Quiz, but it was in the middle
of promoting This Way Up. I was pushing the first series of
that really hard, and during the daytime, I'd go and film with
Stephen Frears. I had such a good time, I sort of forgot it was
work. It can throw your head. When you're pretending to be
someone else, it doesn't always attach to you in a way that
maybe writing does.”
Aisling is joining me for her last interview on this PR run,
and she tells me how the experience has been promoting
her starring role. “Yeah, this is my first and only interview this
week, so you're getting a good version of me. It’s my very last
one too; last week was quite intense. It's been about a year
and a half since I've been talking about anything. You know,
you're answering the same questions all the time.” Something
you never think about is the exhausting process of having to
come up with and repeat the same answers multiple times
45

This brings the conversation back to Aisling's latest film,
Greatest Days, which exudes a cheerful and lighthearted tonality.
Sometimes, amongst life’s heaviness, you crave something
light. “I think that's why I kind of signed on to it.” Rea
day, over and over. “Over the last few years, what’s been
different has been interviews like these ones. They’re nicer
because you're talking to someone, and it's a whole collection.
It’s like, 'Okay, there's a nuance there.’ But it’s the clipped
interviews that get you. Someone comes in for eight minutes,
they film it, and you are constantly thinking, ‘Oh, what version
of this clip might they use?’ Everything just gets used as content,
which is obviously designed to be much more grab-able
or clickbaity.”
I'm curious to know if she has experienced such tactics being
used on her in the past. “In Ireland, I jokingly mentioned
to one of the camera guys during an interview, ‘I've legally
banned my age from being mentioned anywhere; are you
taking this out? You better edit that out.’ A few days later, I see
The Sun published a headline: ‘I banned my age from being
mentioned, says Aisling Bea as she fights back at the industry.’
We talked about how there's a younger version of me in
Greatest Days, and that’s when I use it as a bit of a filler joke,
that’s all. Then suddenly it turns into this big thing. Of course,
that's the nature of the beast.” It's a parasitic beast that distorts
people's words into attention-grabbing headlines. Even
as readers, you read through half a piece before releasing
what you were told has been completely twisted. “You know,
‘Aisling Bea reveals what it was like working with Take That,
and then halfway through the piece, you reach “Aisling says,
Oh, we only met them for 20 minutes. They seemed very
sweet.” Or, ‘Aisling Bea slams award ceremonies for not honouring
comedy actors’. And the truth is more “Oh, it's a pity
the BAFTAs have no supporting comedy actor awards.”
“It’s just lying, essentially, about what you said or how you
said it. If we talk for 40 minutes and I bring up carrots once.
Then this whole thing leads with ‘Aisling Bea talks carrots and
nothing else’. You’d think I sound like a fucking mad woman.
It’s an environment you're supposed to feel safe in, you
know? I understand it's silly, but it’s more the fact I worry
about the people who the thing is supposedly about and
what they are supposed to think when they see it. I mean, I understand
having to try and sell my work, and I do understand
most people are at this point where, do you fight it or just try
and play ball?” Going back to interviews that try to build a
connection with the interviewee, Aisling says, “Those are the
ones that are more interesting to read anyway; you don't feel
like you've read them a bunch of times already.”
Stepping away from frustrating click-baiters, Aisling’s job revolves
around constantly embodying different identities, so
I ask her whether she finds that she is able to find the time
to switch off. “I’m not very good at it. Some people may go
to work, then come home and be done with it all. Maybe it’s
because of the hours and scatty schedules, but so much of
my life is work. I caught myself clenching my jaw so tightly
that I ground away a tooth. It seems that being constantly
tense has become my comfort zone.” With the exception of
next month, she rarely has the time to take any time off; this
is the first long break she has had in over a decade. “I can go
to random things I don’t normally have time for, like physio
appointments, or just taking it slow. If you've made a lifetime
of living a certain way, it doesn't just change the next day.
It's like a diet of energy or a diet of focus, really. The idea of
being unscheduled is just so nice for a while.”
Sympathising with Aisling, I share a moment from a few years
ago when a friend of mine told me to go have a bath just
to try and relax. I remember responding, confused, ‘Okay,
well, what am I supposed to do in the bath? Should I be doing
something?’ “Yeah exactly! Is there a checklist of things
to accomplish while in the bath? As a freelancer and writer,
you're constantly looking for content. You think, ‘Oh, maybe
I could write something about baths.’ As a freelancer, what’s
the difference between being at work and being on holiday?
Ah, it sounds like a joke here, but there is none; you’re always
anxious. There’s no time where an idea isn't flowing.” I
discover that there is one way to get Aisling to almost wind
down—through the magical powers of reality TV. “I watched
so much Below Deck and so much Real Housewives. Why I
love reality TV so much is because it has nothing to do with
me. I just watch it; I’m never going to be in it or try to make it.
It's like what we were talking about earlier—what people are
looking for is content to fill the space. We've lost our ability
to focus, and I'll include myself in that. We need to have hits
of dopamine because our attention spans are getting shorter.
So, Aisling Bea slams carrots for being too orange when
they're supposed to be purple!”
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As comedians, part of your job is to project a specific persona
and energy when performing or in character. I'm curious
to know whether Aisling feels there is an expectation for
comedians to be constantly happy and upbeat. “Personally,
I don't feel pressured to be happy all the time. At the end
of the day, it’s your job to make other people happy when
you're on stage. Perhaps you’d find it more so if you're a funny
person in other environments when people expect you to
be funny in the office, let's say. If people aren’t entertained,
then I haven't done my job well. I feel the pressure to maintain
a constant state of being 'on' is more connected to a risflecting
on reviews of the film and how they have come in all
shapes and sizes, she compares the film to a bag of chips. “If
someone brought you out for a date and you thought they
were going to propose, but they gave you a bag of chips,
you'd think, ‘Are you fucking serious?’ Two stars. But if you've
had a long day at work on a Friday and someone brings you
home a bag of chips, you'd think, 'Marry me now, please.'
I can't imagine anything else. I want salt, potatoes, and fry,
whatever the taste of fry is. Five stars! And that’s what it is—a
comfort food, not a threat to everything we know. It’s an art
form in itself to be able to do that and feed people, bringing
them a different type of joy through food. Obviously, this is a
metaphor, but I haven't had any lunch yet.”
There’s a certain snobbery that seeps into all forms of creativity,
such as film and music. People often overlook the joy and
happiness certain genres bring. After all, isn't that what it's
all about? A momentary escape from everything else that's
going on. “Take That, Harry Styles, boy bands—they make
people throw their arms up in the air. Paul Rudd flew from
London, where he was filming Ghostbusters, to America just
to watch a Taylor Swift concert with his daughter. He referred
to her as a Trojan Horse—someone who can put on a threehour,
beautiful concert, and the kids and young people are
throwing their hands up, wiggling, and experiencing pure
joy. I think life has taught me that if you're snobbish about
these things, it’s probably coming from a place of fear or insecurity,
that maybe you're not pursuing your own passion,
you know?”
I take a moment to express my deep appreciation for Aisling
and her own writing in her hit series This Way Up, a show in
which she portrays a woman putting her life back together
after a nervous breakdown. What’s so beautiful about the
show is its sensitive portrayal of mental health. The way in
which it accurately captures its complexities, showing both
the highs and lows with authenticity and avoiding the trap
of presenting it solely as a bleak and hopeless existence. Instead,
it beautifully highlights the often-overlooked everyday
struggles faced by individuals dealing with mental health issues.
“I was asked if I wanted to create a French version of the
show. And I had to say no because the pitch included the title
translation from This Way Up to Fragile. And I thought, ‘Oh,
no’, because if you already think the title is fragile rather than
upward, it misses the whole point. It is about starting from a
broken place and gradually rebuilding yourself, rather than
focusing on someone falling apart.”
“I wanted to make the first series like a war, and the second
series reflects a state of peace. I wanted to capture the essence
of peace by showing the ordinary, the sometimes boring
aspects of life, when you’re not the centre of excessive
worry anymore. There’s a shift where the people who are
caring for you get on with their own lives a bit more.” Continuing
our conversation, she shares about something she had
written that got made into a pilot in America. “I didn't have
any say on one scene that had someone reaching for pills.
I was so embarrassed by it because that's how it's shown in
the media. They need to show the madness. It’s all shown as
the worst outcome, or being completely fine the next day. It is
just insulting to the people who are trying to get on with life.”
I’m interested to hear more about Aisling’s own mental health
and how she feels it has developed over the last few years.
“Well, I think it didn't improve because of the pandemic, like
the same for everyone. I made my second series during the
pandemic, and it broke me on every possible level. I think
I'm only just coming out of that now. Doing press the last few
weeks has been interesting because I think it's something
that probably a year ago would have crippled me. I would
have needed twice the breaks and half the interviews. It's often
the small things that have the greatest impact. The buildup
of things like too many commitments, not having enough
time off, missing an appointment and feeling foolish, or simply
missing the point. It happens, and it's how you react to
these situations that matters.”
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ing celebrity. People approach you in public, and there's no clear
indicator to show whether you're working or not. It's a pity because
some days it's an absolute joy when people come up to me—and
generally, they are very kind and sweet. Then there are also times
when I don't even want to leave the house because I don't want to
be looked at. It's like living in a small town; there's a high assumption
that a lot of the people in town will know a story about you, but
then there are other times you walk into a shop and no one gives a
shit or knows who you are.”
For Aisling, the key is discovering individualised ways to cope with
the anxiety. “Sometimes I go and see the odd psychic, and it can
feel almost like attending therapy. It doesn't matter if it's true or
not; you just want to hear someone say, ‘Oh my god, it's all going
to be okay.’ Whether you believe in it doesn’t really matter. Someone
is just offering advice to be cautious of certain things or watch
out for situations. It's similar to star signs in that sense.” To finish up
our interview, Aisling elegantly ties it all up. “To slowly come full
circle, with the film, the idea of it is like, is this Shawshank Redemption?
No.” I have, however, seen one person say this is their Citizen
Kane. “Is it something people might leave with the sum of its parts
making them happier than the details of it? Yes. And that's kind
of what psychics are. Someone walks away from it with a sense of
reassurance, saying, ‘Hey, listen, you're going to be alright. Maybe
keep an eye on that, but you’re okay.’ To be honest, when I got on
Zoom, I didn't think I'd be fighting so hard to defend psychics.”
Interview Alice Gee
Words Will Macnab
Photography Charlie Clift
Styling Hope Lawrie
Makeup Justine Jenkins
Hair Narad Kutowaroo
Photography Assistants Betty Oxlade-Martin & Oli Spencer
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"I really have to hand it to other people, my friends and other musicians
around me, for making me believe in myself again" is one of
Lily Moore's reasons for her comeback to music after three years.
Of course, those years were a universal experience for many, with
the 2020 COVID lockdown shifting people like Lily into somewhere
wildly unexpected.
"I feel like the reason mine and so many other people's mental health
struggled so much in lockdown was just not having that connection.
Not everyone needs therapy or counselling, although those are
amazing things. But I think everyone does need human connection
in some form. And to me, my therapy before COVID was just going
down to the pub with my mates and talking. And we will always have
such beautiful friendships that we can be really honest with each other.
So not having that was really, really, tough."
Lily and I sit outside to talk, probably just a few days before it's too
unbearably hot in London as the summer commences. We've already
bonded over being tote bag connoisseurs, both of us carrying
one slightly larger than your average tote bag. We both agreed the
bigger, the better when it comes to totes, especially as we speak a
lot on the topic of food during our time together; there needs to be
space for ample snacks to bring on the go. Lily is just as passionate
about food as her music.
After her 3-year break due to her exhaustion with the industry during
COVID, the Brighton-born singer is back, feeling optimistic and embarking
on several projects this year, including the start of a podcast,
summer shows, including supporting Rag N' Bone Man, an upcoming
solo tour and creating more music for a future album.
Although the pandemic may have also put a pause on the rising
star's plans and did eventually take a toll on her mental health, it
gave her a chance to create her latest EP 'Before I Change My Mind,
Again…' filled with songs documenting moments of love, friendships,
and mistakes made in everyone's early 20's, oozing emotion
from every track.
L: I was in a really weird place when I wrote it. It was lockdown. It was
dark. It was the Christmas that no one got to go home to their families.
So me and my producer Charlie, a really good friend, were stuck
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in London finishing the EP because neither of us could go home. So
it was a fucking weird time. It's really annoying that it's tough to write
things or create art when we're not living your best life.
But then there were lots of problems in terms of now being an independent
artist, and how that would work. It took a long time to
build up my confidence, even though I wanted to do it again. I'm not
incredibly spiritual or anything like that, but I believe that. So when
nothing in the world made me think this was a good idea, it felt like I
was going against all possible evidence I had that this was going to
be a good thing to do. So taking some time away, I relaised I was an
idiot. I still want to do this. I want to put myself through a bit more.
And now it's out. It's so good. I can close that book. It's made me
realise what I want to do and where I belong.
M: I do have to ask with this EP, did you change your mind at any
point when you were making it?
L: Oh, literally constantly. I got halfway through when I thought I
didn't know if the songs would pop and if I should do something
else. Then I kept changing my mind and couldn't decide on the first
song for the longest time. That was mental. Even just, did I want to
do this? Did I want to fucking continue to break my back trying to
get somewhere with something that hadn't given me a considerable
amount of anything since COVID. But in the end, I felt the need to
do this now.
I did change my mind constantly. If I don't put this out now, I'm never
going to do it. So, I had to call it that and shove it out. I didn't want
it to be too grand. There's a lot of pressure, especially if it's like a
comeback situation, to think of this amazing, deeper meaning title.
And I was like, nope, the EP doesn't deserve that.
M: It was a few tough years for you in the pandemic. What was it like
to get back to making music?
L: I need to hand it to the people surrounding me. I feel like the
reason mine and so many other people's mental health struggled
so much in lockdown was not having others around. Not everyone
needs therapy or counselling, although those are amazing things.
But I think everyone does need human connection in some form.
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And to me, my therapy before COVID was just going down to the
pub with my mates and talking. We will always have such beautiful
friendships where we can be really fucking honest with each other. I
feel fortunate to have that. And then not having that was really, really,
really tough. But I really have to hand it to other people, my friends,
and other musicians around me, for making me believe in myself
again and putting the time in with me.
M: Are there any techniques or other activities you've tried to help
improve your mental health?
L: I mean, it's so fucking annoying because everything really fun in
life is pretty bad for your mental health or just bad for you. In general.
This is a problem of getting older that I've realised I really wish that
having a bottle of wine and eating loads of chips was the best thing
for my mental health. I genuinely think there is nothing wrong with
that. But it's a difficult one because also there was a time when I got
so obsessed with trying to do all the things that were supposedly really
good for my wellness, and I was so desperate not to feel anxious
I went completely ham on it.
I can remember this point in my life where I was doing yoga for an
hour, meditating twice a day for 20 minutes, reading a book on, like,
The Chimp Paradox, like how your brain's a monkey, and listening
to The Panic Pod. You know, reading The Body Holds The Score. I
remember thinking this is too much. This is not fun. If you're on holiday,
sure, but the best thing I've learned is to do whatever I would
do anyway. And if that's going to the gym because I want to go to the
gym, I'll go to the gym.
M: How do you overcome those fears of being different and defying
everyone's expectations when making your songs and EPs?
L: Knowing when to listen to others and when not to is something
I've learned over the years. I've always loved writing lyrics. But I
need to learn about music theory, and I'm not that great on guitar.
So finding people that can be part of your team, and all having different
strengths is important. Everyone that I work with is that part
of my band. They're part of the Lily Moore thing. And I could not
do it without any of them. If I was to do an EP entirely on my own
without any other writers or producers, it would be a very, very, very
different-sounding thing. The expectation I always hold for myself
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is knowing that it's something that I care about and that I believe
in it and not letting other people tell me what to do as much as I
used to. It's okay if all your songs are different because I'm different.
I'm only 20-something. So, it's going to change with my mood every
day. Why would my style of music stay the same every day? But as
long as they're all things I believe in. That's important.
M: It must be so different in the industry than what it was back in the
day with early Amy Winehouse and Britney and so on. What's your
experience been like starting out in music?
L: There's been a lot of changes. I last released a song three years
ago. And then even coming back to the music industry. It was such
a different climate like the last time I dropped the song before January;
TikTok didn't exist. And that blows my brain because now that
is such an important thing. It didn't exist back in the day, years ago,
even like, you just have to work your ass off, write the songs, know
what you're saying, and then cross your fingers and hope for the
best that they did. Now it's like before the songs even out. You're
expected that it gets to a certain level, which is just impossible. Yeah,
it's pretty tough. So it has changed.
M: Is there any artists that you'd love to collaborate with?
L: Buddy Ross, he's Frank Ocean's producer. He has an incredible
song called "Bored Again!" that my friend showed me, and I have to
play it all day. I just love it. I would love to somehow collaborate with
him. If I just shout that enough, he might notice me one day.
M: Is there anything you enjoy besides making music and doing
gigs?
L: I love food. Yeah, I love cooking and baking. When I cook, it's an
event for me to do really quick things, but if I'm cooking, it will be
every single pan used. But love like baking. I love going out for food
with my friends. And I know that's not a particularly healthy hobby
but I just love it. I also love being able to travel again.
M: Outside of music, you also have a podcast, The Moore The Merrier.
What's it been like to start that?
L: It's been so great. I don't feel comfortable taking selfies and doing
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that. But being shit and talking about food, I could do that forever.
And I love getting to know people. I'm a nosy person. So, naturally,
[A podcast] felt like a really cool thing to do. And it's been amazing,
and I'm so grateful for how open everyone is with me when I do it.
When I started, I thought people might not want to talk about things,
but everyone so willing to. It's amazing.
M: You've lived in London now for a while. Is there anything that you
miss from Brighton?
L: Most of my friends have left now but just to see the seaside. We
all left in the same year. Even though I didn't go to University, they
all went straight to University. And I was just in London doing my EP,
which was really weird because I remember they were all at Freshers
week the same week I was like dropping my EP. I suddenly felt really
grown up, and all my mates were just drunk every day, and I was
really jealous, but it happens. I miss the sea so much. Growing up
by the beach makes you feel landlocked because you can't see the
horizon anywhere.
M: I'm a London girl. But that's one thing that I love is when you go
to the seaside and just sit on the beach and have fish and chips. In
London, the fish and chips are different here.
L: I don't know. But it's just it just doesn't feel the same. I don't trust it.
M: What's your favourite restaurant you've been to?
L: It's called Mange Tout in Brighton. I've just got the train there before
to go to this restaurant and then return. It's a French bistro. And
it's like the closest thing I've got to being in Paris because that's my
favourite place in the world and the food, it's incredible.
M: You just released an EP and have an upcoming tour in September.
Any songs that you're excited to play live?
L: I'm excited to return to the old ones. Revisit some of my sad songs.
Most of the new ones. Yeah, they deserve an outing. They haven't
been out very much. So, I'm really excited to get to play those.
There's something that really reminds me why you're doing it when
you see people singing words.
M: What are you most looking forward to on tour?
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L: I want to say the food, but I could guess that probably wouldn't be
acceptable! Touring is my favourite thing in the world. Getting to gig
every night for me as a like little kid was a dream and now I'm like,
"Omg, I'm actually getting to do a gig?!" So that's cool.
When you're on tour, you're on a bus with people all day. So, at some
point, you'll go crazy unless you don't all love each other and get
along well. So, I think the hang is underrated and just to spend all
day chatting shit, snacking, and finding somewhere great to go after
the show.
M: Is there one place you're looking forward to playing at?
L: There are quite a few places I've never been to, Bishop's Stortford
and Skelmersdale. Brighton will be cool. That sold out literally within
a day, but that's hilarious because I'm genuinely so frightened that I
know every single person that will be there.
M: What's the one moment so far where you look back and think,
"Wow."
L: It's hard to pick one. I still need to do it, but getting asked to play
Montreux Jazz Festival. I've been living off that kick for the last month
because that has always been my goal. Yeah, my dream. Obviously, I
really want to do Glastonbury.
But yes, Montreux Jazz Festival has been a dream of mine since I was
a kid. So, I am really excited about that. Otherwise, it will probably
be my last show in London at Village Underground. Because it sold
out in 2019. And I didn't get to do it until 2022. I was standing there
and getting so emotional because I did not think I would get to do it.
M: What's next for you? Is there anything you want to tick off?
L: I feel like putting my finger in all the pies now. I don't know what
I'm doing, starting a podcast while I'm trying to write an album. Next,
I'll be starting a clothing range if I carry on like this! But it'd be so
much fun, actually. Maybe my own perfume. That'll be a slay.
M: What would you name your fragrance?
L: Essence of pop bitch.
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M: I can see it in Boots.
L: It's going to work.
L: I just want to keep going. I want to keep getting my song's out
there and gradually getting bigger. I have massive dreams. But
everyone's taught just to constantly look for the next thing and never
stop and just appreciate what they've done at the moment. And I
feel like right now I'm in shock I've actually even managed to get
anything out. Let alone be a normal human being. I want to keep
writing songs, making an album, and tour the world.
Words Madison Drew
Photography Aaron Hurley
Styling Phoebe Brannick
MUA Phoebe Taylor
Lily's EP Before I Change My Mind, Again… is out now.
Tickets to her headline UK tour 'The Bookies Favourite Tour' in September
are on sale now. Lily will perform at venues across towns and
cities, including Leamington Spa, Skelmersdale, and Brighton. A
London show is scheduled on September 19th
You can also listen to Lily's podcast, The Moore The Merrier: A Podcast
On How To Survive, on all good streaming platforms.
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Idina Menzel is more dramatic than ever.
When you think of the Tony-award winner Idina Menzel,
one of the first things to come to mind is her belting out
"Defying Gravity" or "Let it Go," or maybe it's her rendition
of "Seasons of Love" from Rent, where she made her
Broadway debut as Maureen. Her iconic role in theatre history
and pop culture is undeniable. Over thirty years into
her career, the multi-platinum-selling singer/songwriter is
now in her disco dance era, adding a new colour to her
music repertoire with the release of her seventh studio album
Drama Queen filled with dance anthems that are sure
to be on repeat all summer.
On a LA morning (precisely ten o'clock), the powerhouse
that is Menzel has figured out how to pop the video on
Zoom before jumping into a candid discussion about
dealing with the anxiety that accompanies her huge success
and how sometimes it's not that easy to sing 'Defying
Gravity'—reflecting on her role in people's lives, especially
the LGBTQIA+ community, and the importance of nourishing
the arts to help mental health. Idina talks to HATC's
Alice over in London, who finds herself fangirling as the
two meet online.
A: Growing up, I've watched everything, Wicked whilst
ugly crying to your music. So, this is really great for my inner
child right now.
I: It's great for my inner child too. That's what I like to hear!
A: What better place to begin than with your legendary
status as Queen of Broadway. You were 25 when you debuted
in Rent, which would then go onto Broadway in
1996. What were your first impressions when you took the
role?
I: Well, I was pounding the pavement at the time trying to
get a job. I was singing at lots of weddings and Bar Mitz-
vahs with bands and just making a living like that I was
hosting in restaurants. Then I got a call from a friend who
was working at an agency. And they said they were looking
for unknown talent for this little off-Broadway show called
Rent. The play would be in January and February, quiet
months for those kinds of parties because the weather's so
bad. So, I thought, Okay. And I went in, and then I booked
that job. And we thought it would just be a short run at the
New York Theatre Workshop, which is this small but prestigious
off-Broadway house down on East Fourth Street,
and it was the moment I was there, it felt like something
special. I didn't know what it would become.
We were all very close. I got to meet Jonathan Larson,
the composer. He wrote music for my voice once he
got to know me. That was very special. And then, on the
night of our very first audience, he passed away at a very
young age, and so that was traumatic for all of us. I think it
changed all of us and informed who we are as people and
artists. Because when we lost a friend, we had an incredible
responsibility as it became more and more successful,
to really make sure we did right by him. It really put our
priorities in order as young kids getting a lot of fame early
on. And then it was life imitating art, and the show was all
about artists and losing people before their time and community,
and loving who you want to love. And so, all of that,
the meta of it all, really resonated with all of us every night
on stage. It was a reciprocal experience for the audience
as well as for the cast.
A: I'm guessing it must have been a magical way to remember
him alongside the trauma.
I: Yes, it continues to be with every anniversary and every
story, and everyone whose life he touched are at all our
concerts or projects that we do. So we're constantly reminded
of him.
A: When you entered the role of Elphaba in Wicked, it became
a whole new universe. Theatre is a community that
really touches people's lives and is escapism for many
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people. Do you feel a responsibility as an artist towards
these people who come and want to transfer into these
worlds?
I: Yeah, that's how I feel when I go to the theatre. So, since
I was a little girl, the lights would go down, the overture
would begin, and I'd get goosebumps. So, I know that feeling
of wanting to immerse myself in another world, and
what is so beautiful about art, in general, is how it promotes
empathy. You know, especially us as performers and actors,
and getting the walk in the shoes of other characters
and other experiences. It helps us have compassion and
understanding for what other people experience, which is
what it is for anyone attending the theatre.
That's why art is so important, why we need to make sure
that schools and communities have their arts programmes
because it's how we really understand humanity. And, for
me, from a mental health standpoint, it's a sanctuary. I feel
a sense of community and family when I'm preparing a
show, and I'm in rehearsal, when I'm onstage with my cast,
with the audience, there's this magnetic, unspoken energy
and connection that we all have together.
When I'm performing, I'm on the best days; I am transported
somewhere where if you asked me how I did something
or how I was feeling, I couldn't tell you because I'm
so in the moment. And to me, although I'm not religious
that's the closest thing I have to feeling something bigger
than myself.
Of course, there are other days when I can't achieve that.
And all I can hear is the noise in my head and my anxiety,
but that's the gift and the curse of performing, putting
yourself out there, and taking the risk, making yourself vulnerable.
A: You've spoken out about the vulnerabilities. I've got Bipolar,
and as a teenager, that was difficult for me and others
around me. Music was especially a form of escapism
and being active in that world. I think it's incredible, but it
must also be incredible to be able to perform and onstage
and give back to people but also for yourself.
I: I haven't been shy about talking about my anxiety, and
I'm afraid it's gotten worse as I've gotten more successful,
unfortunately. I think because I feel more people are
watching. And I think when you're more successful, you've
got further to fall.
I have to work extra hard at trying to stay moment to moment,
stay appreciative of where I am, and try to enjoy my
process. I have to love myself more because otherwise,
why am I even doing this?
You know my body does things to me that make me uncomfortable,
and I try to channel that through my singing,
my voice, and my acting. I put emphasis on who I'm trying
to reach as opposed to how it's affecting me. How can I
change someone else with what I'm singing or saying? I
have all different techniques.
A: It's about finding that middle ground, which can be
quite difficult, especially when you're in the moment with
anxiety.
I: Well, it's because your mind starts working in your body,
your heart beats faster, and the naysaying in my head gets
worse. So, I have to work hard at that, and I'm not averse
to taking antidepressants or anti-anxiety medicines. I'm
supportive of that and hope that people that have don't
feel shame because it can really help people. We can be
just more present and enjoy our life and the process much
more.
A: I can't even imagine the pressure; it must have been skyhigh.
And then you went into Frozen. It's obviously for the
kids, even though I will admit very happily, I've watched it
many times. No shame there. What an incredible way to
introduce them to a new world. l watch my godchildren
when they see it and how they light up, and it must be a
wonderful thing to be involved in.
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I: The greatest gift I've had in my career is how all the roles
through each decade have resonated with young audiences
and that the projects I've participated in have sent
strong, important messages for people. Embracing our
unique qualities about embracing our power and not being
afraid of our power.
What's been wonderful is that I'm growing up with my audience.
So, the Rent fans are now grown-ups and have kids
or fans from Wicked. So, we can experience this together.
And that's something I'm just super proud of.
A: Did you ever think it was going to get to this kind of
level?
I: No, when you land a Disney princess role, that's obviously
a huge accomplishment, and it's exciting. That would
have been plenty. For it to become such a phenomenon
was unimaginable that it would take on this life. I was so
excited to work on this big Disney film in the studio.
A: You play all these powerful women, but there's a depth
of vulnerability and journey in harnessing their power.
What has the experience been like in such roles?
I: We learn as grown-ups just as much from young people
as they learn from us. So the interaction I have and the
feedback I get from young people and how they've been
touched by an Elphaba or an Elsa and the music and how
it's been the score to their lives, it's beautiful to hear all
that.
It's also a reminder to me every time I sing the music. Every
time I go on stage and sing the songs, people ask me do
you get bored of singing them? No, because it's like a little
reminder that I need to walk, talk, and practice what I
preach to these kids.
I may seem confident and have a lot of self-esteem, but
there are good and bad days, and it's not always easy to
just Let it Go or Defy Gravity. It takes work sometimes, so I
also need to be reminded of that as well. And I get to see
great courage in the audience I play to, whether it be kids
in the LGBTQIA+ community, or young women, in general,
trying to calibrate their power and how they are received.
All of us are just trying to be who we are.
A: The new album is coming out in August. First of all, the
artwork is beautiful. There's like disco, confidence, brightness,
and it's bold.
The songs released so far are so good. 'Move' is an absolute
bop. I'm not going to lie.
I: Thank you!
A: The songs are also really uplifting, and they're so much
fun as well. Did it feel like that when you were writing this
album?
I: I always felt great when writing, and just because I'm a
glass-half-empty person, I knew that I didn't want to adhere
to rules or expectations people have of me musically.
And I wanted to make music that would inspire people to
get up, dance and celebrate and allow me to do the same.
And I am also very aware that I'm known a lot from the
theatre, and I am dramatic in my life. And dance and disco
music is a great genres for connecting those two because
there are great grooves, lots of joy, and a big melodic
thing. And so, I was excited to do that.
I named it Drama Queen because, well, for one, I've played
many things. I like to think I'm a queen in my mind on a
good day. But also, I'm trying to reclaim the word. Because
we all have multitudes, and we have many things and many
emotions that make up who we are. That's what makes us
really interesting, evocative, and provocative. That's the
exciting stuff, and so all of that in one recipe passionate,
loving, sensitive, fragile angry is all a part of you know who
I am, and I wanted to celebrate my love for that.
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A: I love that it's unapologetic. Growing up as a drama
queen, I got told many times but in the best way. My mum
always said, "Be out there, be bold."
I: Yeah, feel things! There's nothing wrong with that.
A: Now you have the album you've created. It's all ready
to go. What are you most looking forward to now with the
body of work?
I: I'm looking forward to performing it. I'm doing pride
festivals essentially all over the world. And I'm looking
forward to sharing that with the LGBTQIA+ community to
start. I'm excited that the timing is working out with the
release so that I can show my gratitude and thanks to a
community that has been with me since the beginning, has
accepted me, and has taught me about living authentically.
I'm excited to give that back, have fun, and celebrate
that together.
Idina's album Drama Queen is out on 18th August!
Interview Alice Gee
Words Madison Drew
Photography Steven Gomillion
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Miss Benny is in her element. Authenticity becomes her. Sitting
down with MB on LA time, I knew she was a star from the moment
I met her. No matter the location of the interview, whether
in person or on a call, when you know, you know. MB's breakout
role, Marco, in Netflix's Glamorous alongside stars like Kim Cattrall,
is everything you could hope for. A re-imagination of those
ever-iconic films/tv shows, including Devil Wears Prada and Ugly
Betty, Glamorous is home for the queer community. In this space,
their shine is celebrated and only comes naturally. As the sun
beams into her room, there's no denying the beauty that quite
literally radiates from her in person. As we begin to chat, there's
something more, an eloquently spoken individual who's reality
and truth is gospel. MB's lengthy preparation for the role of Marco
sees a show emerge five years on, a celebration and roaring
success, and a not-so-subtle middle finger to those who said the
world wasn't ready for topics and nuances, particularly for queer
identities.
A: There's quite the buzz behind Glamorous, so after a few years
of it being in the making, you must be very excited and very ready
alone legendary roles, including Kim Cattrall. How was it working
alongside her? Is it even more comfortable to do what you're doing
and know that she supports you?
MB: So many feelings have come on board for the show. What it
really did for me was validate that the show is something special
because when they were casting Madeline, I remember thinking
these are big shoes to fill. This character needs to be funny, this
character needs to be strong, and a little intimidating but also
super grounded and have a lot of heart. And so I always thought
that Kim Cattrall would be perfect. But I thought that was a long
shot. So when I found out that she was signing on to the show, it
was first of all fantastic because I am such a big fan of her portrayal
of Samantha and Sex and The City. But it was also just really
cool. Because to me, that meant someone like Kim read the
script and thought, yeah, this is something special. I've always felt
like it was special. But I am so close to it that it meant a lot that
somebody else read this script and saw it as something valuable
and special. Having her on set was mind-blowing because she's
such an icon, and I've used her as a comedy reference point for
for it to be brought to life.
MB: I really thought that I would be super nervous right now. And
then I'd be scared. But honestly, I'm just so excited. It's (Glamorous)
so silly and so funny. And it's all of the things that I had
wanted it to be. So I'm very excited.
A: How has nurturing the show made you feel so emotionally and
physically attached to your work?
MB: I've been attached to the show for so long. It's been a fouryear
process for me and a five-year process for the creator of the
show Jordan. So we've been making this show for years. So many
of my nerves have to do with it feeling so personal. I wanted to do
it justice because I grew up with this character. I'm really excited
to throw my take into the world. I hold a lot of respect for this kind
of show.
A: I've no doubt about the positive effect it will have, but the
representation and the joy of that come through so clearly, let
so long in my life and career. My character Marco is also in awe
of her and terrified of her all at the same time. So anytime I was
starstruck by having someone like her on set, it was really easy to
use that for the scene. But it was just super cool. The whole cast is
so special. You have someone like Kim, who's established, iconic,
and talented at what she does. And then you have a whole cast
of actors who are all on the newer side of things. It felt like we
were at some summer camp for five months. We had so much fun
filming it that I'm hoping it'll translate to people and they watch it,
and they'll be able to see the amount of fun we're having. It was
the best experience.
A: On a side note, I'm a giant Devil Wears Prada fan. As I watch it
so regularly, it's incredible how my whole world has not become
it yet… she says, creating HATC magazine. Clearly, something
came through. But on that side note, I loved growing up watching
these shows, Ugly Betty, Sex, and The City as a young girl idolising
their creative worlds. How have you found the autonomy
it's brought to your life, creating a show like those but with even
better representation and community.
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MB: Well, it's excellent because I am are very close with Jordon
Nardino, the creator of the show. We are both just big pop culture
snobs. Like we love movie references, TV references, anything.
We're constantly telling each other to watch this, watch that, quoting
things. And we're very aware of this sort of Devil Wears Prada,
Ugly Betty essence of the show. It was really special to me as I
grew up idolising those shows and those movies and wishing so
bad to be one of those girls navigating love, fashion, and a career.
You know, I discovered my queer identity. And so it's pretty
crazy that this show allows us to give a new perspective to a story
we all know, love, and are very familiar with. So many topics and
nuances of our take on it are particular to queer identities. I think
that comes from having a majority of a queer cast and transparent
producers. I've never been on a set where I wasn't the only queer
person on a set. It was refreshing to feel like I don't have to be
an entire community representative. I can be who I am, knowing
there's space for everyone else to do the same. That way, we all
get to breathe and enjoy the process more. It's something that I
love about the way our show gives us that power. Marco gets to
be all the flamboyant fun, be one-liners that we know and love for
MB: I wanted to do something important to me and significant
to Jordan. All of us were just so proud. To see queer representation
on TV or in movies, so far, it's been a lot of the beginning
and end of life, a lot of the trauma associated with being queer.
And so, when I was growing up and seeing clear representation,
I was exhausted because I felt like, Oh, this must be miserable.
Because that's all, I ever saw. And while I think it's amazing that we
have movies and TV shows that show the authentic experience
that queer people have and how hard it can be, our show truly
is a fantastic healing. In this escapist queer story, there's never
homophobia or transphobia. From anyone outside of the community,
it's to understand. It's always internally the challenges we
face as communities. That was super healing for me because I
feel like, as a kid and as a queer person, in my formative years, I
spent so much of my time trying to constantly start by validating
myself and justifying myself. And that's super exhausting. It takes
a tremendous toll on you. So to see a show where no one ever
has to explain themselves, and no one ever has to deal with prejudice,
it's just, I mean, queerness is a superhero on our show. And
that means we get to sort of delve into the relationships we have
a character like Marco, but we also get to see Marco at home. It's
good to see Marco in relationships, and when the makeup comes
off, who Marco is. That's something that I haven't really seen very
often on television. I was really excited to be a part of that. I'm also
such a big fan of the other actor's storylines in the show because
they feel so fleshed out, whole, and unique. Specifically, I'm just
such a super fan of Jade Payton's character Venetia because I've
never seen someone like her being a black queer woman whose
role is so fleshed out. And so I know that if I feel that fan girl fondness
for her character, and the fact that she gets that opportunity,
I can't imagine what people who identify with her will get to feel.
I want to do the same thing for people who identify with Marco.
A: As much as TV over the years has started to adapt, it often
only adapts to what they want to show to be. Growing up with
Bipolar disorder, there was never really a space to breathe, take
that weight off for a second, and be yourself authentically. You're
creating a beautiful reality where life is more than any gloom that
can come about. There's beauty in our authentic selves and lives
to come.
with our own queerness and how we navigate our own identities.
That's super refreshing. Now we get something more soft and
playful when you get to see yourself on the screen for once and
enjoy your life.
A: Authenticity is so crucial. And that it allows us not to have to
validate or be constantly your biggest cheerleader. Don't get me
wrong, it's great to be your own cheerleader, but sometimes you
need to bloody breathe without that being questioned, and I feel
that in Glamorous. How prepared do you think in the incredible
work of the roles you've played, both this and others like Love
Victor, you prepared for such a tremendous response and the
way people will connect with it?
MB: I'm just so impressed and shocked that we got to make and
finish it. Because when we started developing it four or five years
ago, we were told it wasn't time for this show yet. That was always
really frustrating because I was somebody who wanted to see a
show like this. At the time, I certainly felt like I couldn't possibly
be alone. There have to be other people who would very much
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So much of my formative identity were made in my bedroom with
the door locked, watching YouTube videos, or doing my makeup
in the middle of the night and washing it off at 4am so I could go
to church in the morning. Just finding pockets where I could safely
accept myself until I could create a much larger space. Something
really hard for me at the time that I'm hoping to amend a
little bit now is I think about how one of my early references for
seeing myself was funny enough watching Glee. I remember seeing
Chris Colfer's character, how flamboyant he was, and how he
was such a big part of that show. I remember thinking, Oh, I idenappreciate
a show like this. So I'm very excited for queer people
to see the show, enjoy it, make fun of it, and relate to it. I'm excited
for everyone to see a campy, silly TV show that's very aware
of itself and goofy. I'm mindful of the time we're in, specifically
for gender nonconforming and trans people right now. I'm very
mindful of that and excited that we are contributing something
very positive. Specifically, to see a very expressive group of people
succeed and be celebrated is very important right now. My
fears and nerves about a potential pushback or reception or anything
harmful to the show have dissipated. I'm excited because
I'm very proud of what we made right now. I was very clear about
my intention for doing the show, and I'm really proud of how I
feel we succeeded with it. I can't wait to see people's memes and
jokes about it, people getting on board with all of this silliness
and the things to poke fun at. There are so many moments that I
get to have as Marco that are just so ridiculous and over the top,
and I can't wait for people to sort of get to partake in that because
we've had a blast.
A: Always here for the memes! Ok, here goes. I'm sure the whole
aware of the tone of the show we were making, so when I think of
the filming experience, I think of the cast just trying to make each
other laugh.
A: It's so important to hear, like earlier when you mentioned this
heaviness and the belief that's all we were meant for many times
due to those conversations. How have you found your tribe and
that relief in knowing it is there?
MB:I grew up in Texas, which is mainly a religiously conservative
place. So I was raised very Christian, homeschooled, and meant
to be kept from anything secular. But being born queer, I felt like
I knew who I was very early, even though I didn't have the language
to explain it. And so I learned very young that the things I
was feeling and the things I identified with were not necessarily
safe to express in my community at the time. And so, I turned
to any representation I could find, like YouTube and things like
TV. The most life-changing thing for me was when I first started
watching YouTubers and discovering that there were happy
queer people because my only awareness of queer people was
thing is, but is there a standout moment or memory?
MB:There are so many memories. I mean, I will say that anyone
who's a fan of Kim Cattrall in Sex in the City will absolutely love
it. All of the great one-liners, she has an art. I was such a fan of
hers and saw her do this new character with similar energy. There
was a specific memory. There were moments when we'd break
character and laugh because someone would do something funny.
But there was only one scene where we really could not get
through it. It's a funny montage we do at the beginning of an episode
where we're trying to figure out a whodunit situation. And
there's this bit where Zane Phillip's character Chad, walks around
the room saying who he thinks did it. For each one of those moments,
we all had a reaction to our description being said, and it
became one of those things where every take, we were making
each other laugh. It was so hard to get through. When I watched
that episode, I was giggling like a kid. I mean, the ensemble cast
is so silly. It's very rare. That, at least for me, I've been on a cast
where these are all people I will know for my whole life. They
are so funny and care about the show so much. We were all very
this sort of resilience in the face of prejudice. And that is, unfortunately,
very true for a lot of us. It meant I didn't understand that
you could be queer, go to the grocery store or a bar, and then go
home and do it all over again. I didn't have that understanding of
what life really was like. I just had a sense of misery about it. And
so, for me, finding my community and finding peace with myself
came from watching TV and watching YouTube until I was out of
Texas and in a place where I could meet people in person who I
identified with.
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tify with this person. As this person sounds like me, this person
acts like me. This is where I could see my life going. But everybody
around me at the time was so critical of his character and
his being on TV.
I remember being very aware of this idea that we don't want to
see gay people on TV like that. And even from the queer community
at the time, and still to this day, some people are adamantly
opposed to femininity, which in this case, I'm talking about queer
men who are assigned male at birth. They don't want to be associated
with what they deem as a stereotype of being feminine.
That was always really hard for me because I am feminine. And
I identify with that. So for me, I never felt like a stereotype. I just
felt like a different experience. So what I'm hoping to do with this
show is show that some queer people are flamboyant and are
very vibrant, and those people also have emotional range. They
aren't always at 100. I wanted to take something so important to
me, which was the clear representation, and grow and expand
upon that so that people could see more sides to a clearer experience
that is very true for many of us. It was very important for me
heart. They're just amazing and display so many sides of their personality
in a fun way. So, as a kid, I always looked up to the women
in my life. As a kid, I remember thinking, one day, I want to be like
Selena Gomez and Wizards of Waverly Place. I need that person
who gets to be the center of a story, expresses themselves, and
has so much fun doing it. So that dictated the direction of my life.
And luckily, I had the great support of my mom. And I have two
older sisters that I had looked up to so much, who taught me a lot
about being a vibrant personality and all things glam. I learned
everything about makeup from watching my eldest sister. I always
knew I wanted to be one of those leading actresses, comedy girls.
I pursued it for years and was constantly told it wasn't time for
someone like me yet. Now I get to do it. Now I get to be Selena
Gomez. And I get to work with someone like Kim, an icon. To be
that character that I've dreamt of being but to do it alongside
somebody who is very formative for me is just mind-blowing.
Miss Benny's vibrancy towards life, as she glistens in a world that
is and will be ready for her, remains a celebration of her iconic
unapologetic authenticity.
finding my community and finding my identity. I often think about
how every time I've gotten to do a role where I'm a queer person,
being myself and flamboyant. I just tried to think that I would
have appreciated seeing an excess of that when I was younger.
Visiting one place to find and know it's normal and joyful. Finding
my community and finding myself was almost entirely because I
could define what I felt because of TV, movies, and YouTube.
Words Alice Gee
Photography Daniel Prakopcyk
A: To have those mediums and that free reign is just so important.
It has so much more impact than many think it ever touches or
imagined. How have your idols played a part in that?
MB:I've always idolised the women in my life. Both women I know
and the women on TV. As a kid, the most life-changing thing for
me was watching the leading women in TV shows I watched. I
remember idolising them and wanting to be them. I remember
watching Selena Gomez and Miley Cyrus. When I got a little older,
watching 30 Rock and seeing Tina Fey, I remember thinking these
women are getting to do everything I want. They're being funny,
they're being validated, they're being sincere, they have a lot of
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Having spent the last four months traveling around Europe for
the warm-up of Eurovision 2023, you could say Wild Youth have
been in the thick of it. But it seems there's no rest for Conor
O'Donohoe as we get comfy in the foyer of Universal Music
Group. What appears to be a relentlessly busy day in London's
Kings Cross, we decide after a short walk to find a quiet spot to
get candid following back-to-back meetings. I've been aware of
Wild Youth for several years, following the success they've been
riding the past couple of years. Since their formation in 2016,
the band has succeeded in countless endeavours, including
a debut mini-album charting at number five in the Irish album
charts and numerous support slots opening for names like Niall
Horan, Lewis Capaldi, and Westlife. With colourful sets, embellished
looks, and screaming fans, Wild Youth has found a home
in a fan base that thrives as a community. Fighting what he says
others may describe as a cliché, with me, Conor is vocal on the
meaning behind their Eurovision bop "We are One" with their
intentions ever the same, hoping to create a community and
safe spaces. Before the band has a little downtime writing and
enjoying a well-deserved break from being on the road, I'm curious
to hear about their Eurovision experience, putting rumors
to bed, and what's truly important to a band so dedicated to
their fans' experience.
A: So, let's start at the beginning. Tell me about the formation
of Wild Youth.
C: The formation started with Dave and me being friends hanging
out together and playing music on weekends. We've been
friends since 12. So a long time. I was playing football, and then
we moved away and started playing music together. We got
noticed by someone and offered a couple of gigs, then off the
back of those, we got approached by someone who wanted
to manage us. We weren't ready to be manage. We were just
friends playing songs. It wasn't like a thing. And then, the more
it went on, another person approached us to manage us from
seeing us play, so we sat down and chatted about it, thinking we
should try something. We knew if we wanted to try something,
we wanted to make it a band. So we reached out to Cal because
he was a drummer that I knew in Ireland, and basically, we set
up a band. I wasn't sure the direction I wanted to go. So we tried
out change and eventually set up Wild Youth.
A: It's pretty hard to keep in touch with people. So 12 years
is a long time. We always get told by people it's almost like a
brotherhood, especially when you're on tour. It can sometimes
be quite isolating, but being brotherhood seems like the right
match.
C: We have a very close bond, a very close relationship. Even
when we're not touring, we're still hanging out together. It's
important because sometimes, bands can be very fresh when
you've just met people. It takes a long time to get to a place
where you're very comfortable with people, where you can be
open and turn around and say, I didn't really love the way you
said that or I didn't like it. People argue, and I'm like, we do too.
But I grew up with my brothers, who are, without a doubt, the
closest people to me in the entire world. We're able to argue
and hold a very open and honest conversation after we've had
an argument. Still, we can solve our problem because we have
such a strong bond over a long time. It's like a brotherhood,
like you said, which is funny that you say that because that was
actually going to be the name of the band before.
A: What changed your mind?
C: Not having anyone respond to me in the group chat.
A: Ahh, we all know that feeling regarding our bright ideas.
C: It was okay, a change the direction. But they're always very
supportive of me. I think you have to be with someone that has
those crazy spays. You know, you need people to be behind it.
It's how those crazy ideas come to life.
A: The beauty to each of our quirks is they can bring moments
of pure genius, something beautiful and enjoyable, and speaking
of enjoyable, you've just finished touring for quite some
time!
C: Four months from February from being chosen. I think I've
gotten 40 flights traveling all over Europe. We played everywhere,
from Tel Aviv, Barcelona, and Stockholm to London.
Eurovision was just crazy. With all these trips, you would go to
a city for two or three days, do like 200 interviews, and then
perform one song.
A: I imagine they were long days, in the best way!
C: So, like, that was the craziest fact. Usually, if you're doing a
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tour, you do an hour-and-a-half-long set and three to five interviews.
So it was exciting and an excellent way to get to know
all the other contestants by traveling around. But when we tour
as a band, that's where we're happiest. It's never strenuous. It's
easygoing. I've seen, like, little things here and there. You might
be tired or, whatever it is, but we generally try and go and have
the best time. We always try to ensure that the show is never affected
by having the best time and delivering the best possible
shows we can. We always like to walk around wherever we are
and spend a whole day together, do the show, have the next
day off, or go out for beers wherever we are, pure laughter and
trying to make it an incredibly fun time.
A: That's pretty normal. And as you say, it's healthy. You must be
in a good, comfortable, secure place to be honest with people.
I know you've spoken about the idea of escapism. Is that something
you've focused on within your music?
C: Yes, and it's one thing that is always very important for me.
I know I go through my own struggles, so I always try to connect
groups of people who go through the same struggles by
allowing them a safe space to talk about it, go to shows, and
meet up. The reason is that when we were doing one of our first
shows, I think a girl tweeted she was so nervous. I retweeted it
for others to connect, and now those groups have become best
friends. And years later, they still go to all of our shows together.
That, for me, is everything to me and means the world because,
for me it is also escapism. I think that's why I say sometimes
touring is when you're happiest because you're busy. You're on
the road, surrounded by people, and it can keep your mind off
things. I have suffered from ADHD, although I don't really want
to say that I suffer from depression. But I suffer in a way where
I overthink, and sometimes it gets on top of me and drives me
down these really dark holes. So having been constantly almost
distracted by being on tours, that's when I'm happiest, being
on stage. Hearing people sing songs you've written from sometimes
being in dark places, especially as writing songs, can be
an escapism. It can be an incredible feeling. Tapping into the
emotion of the darkest point in your life can be difficult, whereas
having the release of being on tour and doing shows is escapism
for me.
A: Sometimes stopping can feel daunting as there's time to
think.
C: When I stop, that's when it's complicated. When I first went
to a therapist, I didn't know what to focus on. Like, I'd go to bed
and couldn't sleep because my brain went into overdrive. And
then sometimes I need help to compute things. People often
say relax, but it's hard. ADHD is more than being at school and
not being able to focus. For example, If I want to wear a white
T-shirt, if it's not that white T-shirt, it starts to take over my whole
life in a way that's very hard to explain sometimes. People associate
you with being in school and not being able to focus.
A: There's so much stigma involved.
C: I remember when I went to therapy, and the therapist was
saying to me is like, if you can imagine you have ADD, what's
happening in your brain is like a hamster spinning on a hamster
wheel. When the hamster gets off, that wheel still continues to
spin. And it will turn whether it's positive or not, so like what
we were talking about, when you tap into crazy ideas, it can be
amazing for me in a way where I'm up at 7am in the morning,
bang, bang ideas, ideas, songs, titles, colours, artwork, and I'm
in the studio, with constant ideas flowing but then also when I
stop, when I sit down, I get left alone with my thoughts, and that
wheel spins just as fast. And if I latch on to the negative things,
that can make me spiral into a crazy place. If I see a negative
comment online or a negative tweet, sometimes people close
to me will say something. And then, two hours later, I'll address
it because that tiny little seed that went into my head has now
grown up to be huge, and I've just catastrophised it. Even if it's
a joke, I will have catastrophised everything in my mind.
A: It can be hard spiralling when something feels like it's off
from within my mind, which can be challenging for others to
balance.
C: Especially with partners, it is hard for people to understand
that whatever it is sounds ridiculous. People can probably think
you're being precious, but once I get this idea into my mind,
like I'll have Thai food for dinner. If that gets thrown out, it's almost
like my brain can't compute because it's gone and built
this whole thing up in my head that starts sparking off further.
A: One of the easiest questions to ask and the hardest to answer
is something that you're looking forward to or a standout
moment?
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C: The last four months were a very cool moment, even if we
didn't qualify for the semifinals. It's an incredible moment. I
think, to go through what we went through in terms of the ups
and downs of, like, the last couple of weeks, I'm not sure if you
know, all the details, but even with everything that happened
with some online stuff, it's been great.
A: How have you been managing it?
C: I never actually really spoke about some of it. But now it's just
a good time as any. So after Eurovision, there was this whole
thing that I had stormed out, supposedly. When we didn't get
through, I did leave. But when we were set up for the semifinal,
something different occurred regarding an announcement
where we would have to stand on the stage. It was going to
be like an X factor moment, where if it goes off, you'd walk off
the stage. So when they called the last act, and we didn't get
through, we hadn't been told differently. So I was like, I'm gonna
walk back to the dressing room. I walked out to the dressing
room and just got changed. And then went to all my family who
were in Liverpool for it.
I then put up an Instagram post that we didn't get through. But
it wasn't a negative. It's pretty hard for a country like ours with a
lack of budget, stage planning, and our whole team being three
people. It's different from some who have budgets.
So I just took it down. I wasn't able to handle more bad press
on Twitter and online. I really didn't mean it from a negative
place. And I didn't tell it as a slave to the competition because
the competition was amazing. They were some of the best four
months of my life, obviously some highs and some lows, but it
was one of the greatest experiences we've ever had. And yeah,
we didn't get to the semifinal, but that's that, you know, that's
what happens in competitions, you get through, you win, or you
don't get through. We were lucky to get the opportunity to see
some countries, play in countries and meet some people that
are now our friends for life. We're doing a tour now in Ireland
and will add some UK dates with Joe Gregory. Like I speak to
him every day. We've honestly made some friends for life.
I'm incredibly grateful for everything that the competition gave
us, which is why I hated that people thought I was saying it as a
negative towards the competition. That's not what I was saying.
Sometimes the circumstances are made very hard by the facility.
That's nothing to do with competition. So I just took it down
because there had been this whole onslaught online.
A: I can't imagine it's easy when people have perceptions that
aren't the truth.
C: There was another situation with someone who had been
a choreographer and stage planner for us initially, and he'd
worked on many big TV shows. We were informed of a series of
tweets where he fat-shamed someone. He commented about
Ukraine winning the Eurovision and the Ukraine war negatively.
So obviously, everyone involved with Eurovision is very open
and accepting place, LGBTQIA+ plus community and home
for many people there, so rightfully so we had to stand with
those communities. In my tweet, I was like, I'm sorry that people
were hurt by these tweets. It's not what I stand for. I would never
be okay with anyone saying that, and we stand with the community.
But what happened was, then, a group of people on
Twitter were hyper-focused on other things we don't stand for.
They latched on to one article where someone said they identified
as a woman, got into a female prison, and then assaulted
someone. We stand with those and how they identitify, not
those actions. Someone from the opposing side got that article
and used it, saying that we fired him because of his comment
against what gender they identified, which is an article I'd never
spoken about nor referenced, never highlighted. Then that
started to catch fire. And then JK Rowling retweeted us. Suddenly,
it was a big thing that we were like supporters of horrendous
actions. I've never ever even spoken about this. We were
getting the most horrific comments of all time on Twitter. I was
very vocal about the Eurovision and how much I loved it. And
that's why our song was called 'We Are One'. I know people can
say it's too generic, but that is the whole message in Eurovision,
that we are one, that it's a community. Everyone's accepted. It
was something I spoke about and how much I loved it, how accepting
people were, and how people could be themselves. So
when I was made aware of all these tweets he was making, we
couldn't work with him.
I just eventually deleted Twitter from my phone. I couldn't actually
believe that people could go that far.
A: I've always found the disconnect between reality and online
social media baffling. On a positive note, what have you got
coming up?
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C: We have a bunch of shows in the UK. And we're looking at
some European shows. Which is so cool. Maybe festivals in Europe.
We are looking at releasing new music, writing new music,
and enjoying the whole journey. I love being busy and active all
the time. I don't mind traveling. I like to be over here and write
all the time. I'll write a bunch of songs that when everyone's
happy with and I'll go to Ireland, and we'll record everything
there.
A: Do you still get those pinch-me moments?
C: I get that with every show we ever do. Every time we ever put
a show on sale.
A: That's nerve-racking as well. Anxiety-inducing?
C: We put something on sale in Dublin. It went on sale on a
Friday, and I remember I didn't email the promoter because I
was too nervous. I was terrified after Eurovision and wasn't sure
what he'd say from it all. When I emailed them on Monday, he
said it had sold out.
A: It must feel rewarding seeing the response from fans!
C: It's great to see a result from my work. But again, it all comes
back to playing live shows and seeing certain songs that connect
with people. When you see people singing back to choruses,
new songs, that's magic for me. Obviously, people buying
pieces is such a cool feeling, and we're part of the music they
listen to daily. But it all, as a band, first comes back to playing
live and everything being driven by playing the songs we love.
That's the magic for me.
Words Alice Gee
Photography Mollie McKay
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In a short time, Belfast-based artist Jordan Adetunji has
gained the respect of legendary artists, including Bring Me
The Horizon's Oli Sykes, and tastemaker support, including
BBC Radio 1 and Huw Stephens. Having signed to RCA records
with a blessing and introduction from Mr. Sykes, Jordan
has been making waves unapologetically.
HATC: So why not start from the beginning? Tell me a little
about growing up and where music fits into that.
J: So I was born in London and lived there for about 10 years
before moving to Belfast. I started music at about 15, 15/16,
but I was playing instruments. I started playing trumpet in
school. I was doing great in that and learning classical music.
Then going into drums around 18, it developed into rap. I
wasn't always allowed to listen to rap in my house, so I heard
many soundtracks in my video games, like Need for Speed. I
was put into grime in the early days, but that was more of my
Horizon. So many times, they had a significant shift in their
music. Everyone would be used to what they were doing, and
they would change it again. It made me think, I can do that.
HATC: Have you found that you're most comfortable pushing
these boundaries?
J: Yes, I love it. That's why I still make music for me as well as
I make it for other people. I need to make it for myself. I want
people to go through the sounds I go through with me. So it's
more of a journey than just doing the same thing. I want them
to feel my creatively and how I express that.
HATC: When you write your music, are you focused on yourself
and your experiences?
J: It's always something that's happened, something I've felt
in my head at the time.
cousin's taste. I had a family friend who got me an iPod, and
he put all of his favourite music on there. So whatever was on
that was all I knew. So those songs that I grew with in the early
days, were like Drake and J.Cole.
HATC: I love the mixtape throwback, which felt biblical. The
true mixtape era we had growing up. Did you end up doing
orchestra when growing up training classically?
J: I did I was in the school band playing trumpet and learning
many pieces. It helped me read music, so I developed that
skill from doing that, which was quite good.
HATC: What inspired you to move into different genres and
push the boundaries of your music.
J: My obsession with alternative music helped me push back.
I was listening to alternative music like early Bring Me The
HATC: Tell me about your latest track and the writing process
of what's behind the track itself.
J: So it dilutes what's going on for me. So just putting down
a rough or calm feeling, sample, something scratches your
brain. So it's about putting down an upbeat type of thing. I
often do an acoustic version on SoundCloud, so when you
break it down, you can see and hear what I'm saying and how
raw it is. It's overpowering and has a vibe, and I love doing
that.
HATC: You've been signed to RCA, which is great because
they're a great label. I hear on the grapevine that there was
a nod from Oli Sykes regarding putting your music right in
front of them.
J: It's really crazy. When it first happened, I was like, damn.
He commented on a track, then I put up another one, and he
commented again. He was taking in what I was. That's a big
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thing, that someone I look up to and actually listen and talk
about, you know, likes my music.
HATC: Seeing someone you look up to and their response
must have been a dream. And for them to put it out there
to people. I'm guessing it's similar for you that you want to
make music where people look up to you and aim to produce
something with the same effect.
J: 100%. I want them to relate to that in their life. Everybody
goes through things, so to put that down and have somebody
relate to it feels like something is resolved in my life.
HATC: Do you feel pressure hitting the right note, literally
and metaphorically, with people.
J: It's art at the end of the day. And it's subjective, so I feel
like only some people will like everything you do. So, at the
end of the day, if I put out something, whether people take it
ing is alternative. So hearing it on radio stations gives that
confidence that I'm starting a new wave, and I'm starting to
put that stuff that wouldn't typically always be on radios onto
them. It makes me happy because it means I'm doing something
right.
HATC: As we close, what's on the horizon for you or something
you'd love to do?
J: Definitely headlining a big festival. It's more about creating
a culture around what I'm doing. So more than anything,
it's not just a big moment or award. And being a pioneer of
something that's the thing that will make me the happiest because
it means that I've created something that other people
can do as well.
HATC: And when is your next track out?
in or not, that's how I felt. That's how I wanted to express that
feeling or that thought.
HATC: It's a healthy boundary. Speaking of influences, what
effect, over the years, have fans had on you and your confidence
in yourself and your art.
J: I have a new single out on the 23rd, and I'm bringing another
one in July. So you'll also see a lot more stuff, creativity,
and videos.
Photography Frank Fieber
J: Even my influences go into many creative aspects, from
visual elements to performances. I love that because it's
like having a character sort of image. That's why I've always
looked up to Ollie. Even people like Jaden Smith, I'm really
inspired by his creativity, work, and albums.
HATC: He is so explorative of his music. You've also had enormous
feedback from not only radio one but other publications.
How does it feel to see that?
J: For me, it means they're listening. A lot of the stuff I'm do-
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As I Interrupt Taylor Cameron UPSAHL as she packs for her imminent
flight to Europe later that afternoon, Taylor seems excited as she pops
up on Zoom. With an overcast LA in the background, I'm pleased to tell
her that England is surprisingly coming up trumps in weather with a
mini heat wave in play.
'Thank god I need some sun,' she admits, 'I'm forever packing late.' As
someone who prides herself on being organised, I'm not much better
at packing on time. Having amassed almost 500 million combined
streams and tastemaker support over the years, UPSAHL is here to slay.
Since collaborating with artists including Anne-Marie, and Little Mix,
amongst others, she is no stranger to pop triumphs, and just like her
track "My Time To Shine," UPSAHL continues to make strides with the
release of new music and her highly anticipated cassette ep releasing
later this year. Born and raised in Phoenix, Arizona, we dive straight
in as I ask about her musical childhood and growing up watching her
dad's punk rock band.
U: I grew up in a musical family. My dad was in punk bands throughout
my childhood. So I was always watching him do his thing, band practice,
and a few shows I could attend, as most were at clubs. I remember
watching my dad play, thinking he's a fucking rock star, and I want to
do that. So we had a band room in the house from a very young age.
So I naturally started gravitating toward guitar and piano. My family was
very supportive of that. There was never really a moment where I decided
I wanted to do music. For as long as I can remember, it was always
the most significant part of my identity. So my parents put me in a performing
arts school when I was 10. And I stayed there until I graduated
High School. It was always the only thing I was good at, the only thing
I liked to do. So when it came to a career, there was no other option. In
my mind, it was music.
A: Trying to figure out who you are and want to be, let alone as a teen,
can be daunting, so it's nice to hear how you gravitated toward music.
There's nothing worse than being stuck in something you don't love. It
must have been weirdly relaxing regarding identity, knowing who you
are.
U: I think it's hard being so young, trying to figure out who the fuck you
are and what you want to do. I had no idea what was going on most
of the time, but the one constant was music for me. So it was 100% a
guiding light, especially during turbulent times in my life.
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A: I'm with you. I'm holding out for my 30s as I've only heard good
things about them and identity. Producing is no mean feat in any situation.
How was it self-producing your music? Did you get to know
yourself and your sound better?
U: When I did, I did during COVID because there was no other option.
Because I couldn't get into the studio, I had to teach myself how to record
for the first time. Growing up, I always used GarageBand, the only
way I knew how to record as a kid. And so when COVID came around,
and I wasn't able to, like, get in the studio with my producers, I was like,
well fuck, how are we going to finish these songs? And so I went and
started using Logic.
A: It still couldn't have been the easiest option! You've got two new
singles, 'Wet White T-Shirt" and "Sick Little Mind," coming out Friday.
It must be exciting to release two. Have you been looking forward to
dropping them?
U: Definitely! This whole year of releasing music was fun for me because
I got to put out two songs, which is a result. After all, when I returned
from the tour at the beginning of the year, I was in the studio
constantly. I felt the most inspired I've felt in a very long time. I had all
the songs I loved, and I was like, will we get these all out? So my team
and I constructed this plan of doing Side A and B, which got me thinking
about cassettes and like the 90s. We decided to do two songs every
month and a half, leading to a mixtape that we're releasing on cassette
at the end of the year. It's been cool. It's called the Phoenix Tapes. I
wanted it to feel like how I felt when I started making music in Phoenix,
where I had no idea what genre I wanted to do. I was still learning how
to write, but such freedom came with that in the studio. I've been trying
to harness that. I don't want to put myself into a box. Each song feels
so different. They're all in various genres. My next single that comes
out Friday is more like a House record. And then the other song that
comes out with that is this dark Alt Dancy Pop record. So they're all very
different worlds, which has been fun.
A: How have you found this newfound inspiration where you feel the
most inspired you have been?
U: Honestly, it's a result of being on the road. It's easy to lock yourself
in the studio for a long time to burn out. At least for me, I do. Because I
try to write from personal experience, for the most part, to have shit to
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write about, you have to go out and like live your life. So in the last few
years, my life lined up in a way where I started to burn out on the writing
front. So when I got to go on the road and tour for a few months when
I returned, I was utterly inspired. I did a lot of touring last year. So when
I got back in January of this year, I was ready. My notes app is full of
concepts I have been collecting for the past six months. I felt like I had
been building up to like writing all the songs in the past year for sure.
A: It's nice to hear, it's something a bit different because we speak to
people often where they find a studio and being home more calming
and a space where they can breathe rather than the other way, so it's
nice to hear that it's like a home away from home where you can just
be yourself and go out there and do it and not burn out. It can be hard
with the adrenaline though and then the next day that feeling of it not
being there, before you repeat it.
U: That's such a good point. No one talks enough about how depressing
it can be after. It's like a chemical thing in your brain because you
get this adrenaline every night. And then one day, it just stops, and
then you're making dinner and alone for the first time in a long time. It's
quite the reality check. But I feel so lucky that I can write because that's
when I like to come home and dive straight into the studio. I go into
sessions immediately because I know I will probably get sad. I need the
road. So that's always when I feel the most inspired, for sure. I like being
proactive about it. I always call my team and say when I get home from
the tour on Sunday, put me into the studio on Monday. Like, let's go,
let's keep shit going.
A: I love that! So when do you like to stop for a hot minute?
U: Every December, I like to take the whole month to hang out where
I'm from with my family. I have younger siblings, and I'm close to my
parents. They're a big part of the reason why I did music. So as touring
dies down and I'm done releasing music for the year, I go home and
get stoned in my parent's backyard for a month, and it's amazing. It's
just lovely being like back in my town. I get to see old friends and hang
out with my family. That's when I unplug.
A: Talking of tour, you're touring with Tove Lo, who we love here! She's
very talented. You must be excited to get going.
U: So we're going on the tour in September/August. Opening for her
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has always been on my little bucket list that I wanted to check off. I'm
just such a fucking fan of hers. But it's been cool being in a studio together.
She wrote on my last EP a song called "Toast". Getting to watch
her writing process has been an absolute dream. And it will be similar
to watching her show every night on tour. It will be like a masterclass on
how to put on a good show. I'm excited.
A: Oh my god, she puts on one hell of a show. We're talking about outfit
changes, like the whole shebang. And I'm so here for it. And you've
also written with her, which must of been an honour.
U: It's been crazy getting to watch. There have been many artists I've
been fans of who I have called to open for and watch them on the road,
like do their thing and then getting in the studio with them getting like
a behind the scenes. Like it is an honour. I learned so much from all of
them. It's crazy.
A: What's it like to see people stripped back to who they are as a person?
Fans often get to know a persona or performance curated on
stage. When do you feel like you see the real artists? Was that when
they were behind the scenes on tour?
U: I think so. I find it weird even though it is like a performance when
you get moments of it watching a show. I feel when I'm putting on a
show there are certain moments on stage where it feels like you're so
present that you're in this like flow state like you're just in the fuckin
zone, you're not thinking about anything. And to me, that is the most
magical thing as an artist and fan. They could do this in their sleep,
artists in their element. To see them in a proper flow state is the coolest
thing ever. It's also very comforting. As a fan, you're like; we're all in
this together.
A: Talking of fans, your tracks you've had massive support over the past
couple of years, including Jack Saunders Radio1 and huge publications.
What's it like when you see them featuring your music? How do
you feel in that moment when you see that support?
U: I mean, it's fucking crazy. It's still is anytime something like that happens.
It is so wild that other people like my music. But I think it's when
you're writing, in the studio, and working on a mix, that's when the song
is still yours. And then putting out music is like giving the piece to other
people. It's no longer mine. Take it or leave it. Take whatever you want
from it like it's for the fans. Watching fans make it their own and then
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watching publications or radio stations relate to it personally is so cool.
A: It can be pretty vulnerable, and the emotion in your music can be so
personal. How do you balance the emotions and the personal part that
goes into the piece when you give them to people? Because it's pretty
heavy at times.
U: Definitely. In the studio, I feel lucky because the people I write with,
like my co-writers and the producers I work with, are some of my best
friends. So I can go in and say whatever the fuck I want. And it's embarrassing
most of the time, but like they're down to write about whatever
I'm going through, which is excellent. And then the fear, I guess, sets in
when I decide to release a song, whether it is a super vulnerable song
like "Condoms," which I put out on my last release as the B Side. Or it's
like the song I'm putting out Friday, called "Wet White T-Shirt," which is
all about boobs and tits and whatever. Like they're two different sides.
The same for me, but both feel vulnerable to me in different ways. Because
one is like, Oh, this is me, like baring my soul, I hope somebody
relates to this. And then the other is like, Oh, this might piss some people
off. This is too unapologetic. The fear is something that sets in after
the song is done. But it's a healthy fear. Being scared to release music is
what keeps me going. If you're not scared, you should be.
A: As fan music has a way of encapsulating a feeling you may not have
even been able to vocalise yet. How does it feel when someone feels
that energy or spirit from a song?
U: Expressing a feeling is the whole point of music. It sounds so cheesy,
but it's there, so you feel less alone. That moment when you think, "I
thought I was the only person in the world who could feel this way," and
everyone else in this room screaming these lyrics feeling the same way.
That is the only thing it's about. When I'm writing, especially regarding
being vulnerable, I guess like sad songs. Releasing it so someone in the
room can relate is everything.
A: There's nothing like that moment when someone can vocalise something
you've been trying to vocalise, and they do it so well, like, dammit,
I wish I thought of that. You've got so much in the works, including
a tour with Tove Lo, which is close. You've got festivals like you've got
Reading and Leeds. It's such a good lineup as well. You must be buzzing.
What are you manifesting right now?
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U: I mean, it's fucking crazy. Sometimes it's so easy to get into the
groove of touring, traveling, and putting out music. It's all so fast. Recently,
I've had to sit down and remind myself how fucking sick each of
these little moments is like, each of the festivals I get to play in the next
couple of weeks, like in Europe. I'm excited about the two songs I'm
putting out on Friday. I'm so excited that I can put out this much music
this year. It's just the little things for me, like having little check-ins with
myself. There are so many things that I'm so grateful for, everything
that's happening this year. I don't know what's next, but I think as long
as I can keep making music, and people are still down to listen, come
down to shows like, that's always been my goal. So the more I get to do
that, the better. There's an album coming next year. But until then, I'll
be releasing the Mix Tape and, yeah, a lot more live music. So, to keep
doing what I'm doing is the goal.
Words Alice Gee
Photography Aubree Estrella
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Boston-raised artist, songwriter and multi-instrumentalist Khamri
is on the rise. From studying music at the renowned Berklee
College of Music, Khamri sights influence from Frank Ocean,
The Beatles, and Stevie Wonder. With clear direction and more
music to be released, Khamri is determined not to be pigeonholed.
Instead, he is pinned to become one of this year’s breakout
stars.
HATC: Here’s a cliché. How would you Introduce yourself?
K: It’s not a cliche question. I don’t think I’ve ever been asked
that. For me, any introduction is okay. I would introduce myself
as an artist, not just a musician or a songwriter. It’s very important
to me as there are a lot of labels that go around. For someone to
say I’m an R&B artist or musician of this genre is just people being
labeled as an artist. I think it’s always best when people also
recognise that that’s the goal. Right off the bat, they’re like, this
person is an artist, and they identify with this, the things you put
out, or the world you’re trying to build. So it always feels good
when people introduce you that way. Or, at least for me, it does.
HATC: How’s your music grown and evolved over the years?
K: I’ve been making music for as long as I can remember.
Honestly, I wasn’t always recording. I was at points just playing
in my house in Boston when I was living with my family when I
was super young and learning how to play songs on the radio,
or just that my parents would play around the house. For the
longest time, I wasn’t recording them. And then, at some point, I
realised that I could use the keyboard to record with my laptop,
and it was like jumping on, learning how to write songs and produce.
So I’ve been making music forever, just in different ways.
HATC: Where do your roots lie? Where’s home?
K: For me, it’s less about a place, city, or state. It’s more about
finding ways to make whatever, as long as I can make, whatever
space I am in, I like that childhood bedroom or space with endless
possibilities. I need a lot of like free rein and a lot of time
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and space in such flexibilities, so I can have hours on end to
tweak a sound or find the right chords to fix the words so that
it feels the way I want it to feel. So really, that home base. And
typically, it’s in my living room or somewhere I settle into over a
couple of weeks or months.
HATC: How has producing your music given you autonomy and
the freedom to do what you want?
K: I think one of the things that I’ve learned about at least the
artists that I admire and respect, the way that they do things is
that they find a way to utilise every part of whatever it is they’re
creating, to tell a story or to add a layer to the lyrics or the vibe
of the song or the energy of the project, whether it be like
visual or musical. So learning how to produce has helped me
tie everything together in a way that I don’t think would be the
same if I didn’t produce. I believe there are some times when
you can communicate an idea very well. But it’s not quite the
same as being able to tweak it endlessly yourself with your own
hands until it gets to that place where you feel comfortable. So
I think it’s helped me in that way, where I can execute them a
little bit closer.
HATC: Do you have more confidence approaching it yourself
than with others?
K: So I don’t think the faith in myself changes. What changes
in the idea of that childhood bedroom and that flexibility. And
I think when you’re working with people, there are a bunch of
other dynamics. You want to respect people’s time, and you
want to respect people’s feelings, and you want to respect their
ideas. It’s not that you don’t like to invite other people into that
space with you, but it’s a little harder to get things sometimes
closer to how I see things. If I’m working with myself or producing
by myself, I’m likely to spend hours writing or locking
in on something, so it’s a little easier for me not to worry about
confidence. Because that, for me, it’s not necessarily about the
confidence level. It’s about when you walk into a room with peo-
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ple, and you’re also dealing with their feelings and their perspective.
You want to be thoughtful about all those things. But
when alone, I don’t care if I waste my time. I don’t care if getting
something right takes me a week. I don’t care if I have to edit
something 50 times to ensure it feels good, like I’ve heard it in
my head. So it’s more about the freedom of not having to worry
about other expectations.
HATC: Have you found some freedom in not being labeled to
a genre?
K: The dope thing about being an artist in 2023 is that the only
boundaries are the ones we impose on ourselves. In 2023, in
terms of genre, pretty much anything goes. You get to make
your DNA as an artist. You can be put into multiple boxes or fit
into various groups in terms of genre.
HATC: Who have been your inspirations growing up?
K: I love very early Kanye. I love the idea of what he stands for
in a way that he grew up and he wasn’t supposed to end up in
his position. J.Cole is a big inspiration because he produces a
lot of his stuff and is very involved in making his albums. I look
at people like Stevie Wonder and Donny Hathaway and songwriters
like Sir Paul McCartney, The Beatles, Lauryn Hill, and Joni
Mitchell.
HATC: Tell me about your writing process and the vulnerability
that goes in.
K: Part of being a good artist, at least, the artists I admire or gravitate
to are very open about their lives. I think it’s less about being
inherently vulnerable and more just about talking about my
experience, and I hope people identify with it in that way.
HATC: Do you find peace in writing that way?
K: For me, it’s more of a brain exercise. It’s more like a puzzle I’m
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putting together and trying to translate. I’m trying to see how
accurately and closely I can come to solving that feeling or that
experience into a song. It’s not necessarily therapeutic because
sometimes it takes ten times to get it right. Sometimes it takes
20 times to get it right. And sometimes, you get it right the first
time, but there are times when you can tell this is something
important.
K: It would probably be Boston, my home crowd.
Photography Shamaal Bloodman
HATC: What’s on the horizon?
K: I guess I’m not trying to reinvent the wheel but create something
that people feel is quality that they could fall in love with
the entire project and not just a couple of songs. I want to make
a fuller body of work that allows people to listen from front to
back, identify with my stories, and enjoy them.
HATC: Where would it be if you could pick a place to share your
music and perform live?
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