2009 Newsletter 1 of 4

FREE TO MEMBERS
£1 TO NON MEMBERS
CARDIFF TRANSPORT
PRESERVATION GROUP
NEWSLETTER
WWW.CTPG.CO.UK
REGISTERED CHARITY No. 1063157
ISSUE NO.1 of 4 – 2009
Line up at Barry Depot in January 2009
CHAIRMAN’S MESSAGE
1

CHAIRMAN’S MESSAGE
Welcome to the first CTPG newsletter of 2009 and the first for our
new editor Viv Corbin. Also a welcome to all our new members
of which there are quite a few.
A couple of notices for you; the AGM minutes are included in this
issue, at the well attended meeting it was decided to retain our
subs at £15 but to increase the road run donation from £2 to £5 for
the May to August meetings. Your Group has a new Secretary,
Gayle Alder, who has volunteered to stand on the Committee. You
will recognise her from the Group stall at which she was a
permanent fixture throughout last year.
It was requested that the Group put on a weekend trip, we have
organised this through Richard Johnson, who has volunteered his
Royal Blue Bristol MW (EDV 505D). The trip will be on 29 th
March to Brislington where the Bristol Vintage Bus Group are
having an open day and road run, if you are interested please let
me know in the next couple of weeks.
Work at the Depot is progressing well, a few extra regulars have
been helping out and the results are quite visible.
The Vale Council have also agreed to sponsor the Barry Festival
of Transport which will be organised for the 14 th June and will
include the public opening of the Depot. We will also be
celebrating 80 years since the creation of Western Welsh and 30
years since the last regular half cab operation by Cardiff
Transport.
Mike; Tel: 01443 862144;
Email : mikeystrad73@btinternet.com
2

EDITORIAL
As this is my first time – be gentle with me!
I would like to thank Cliff Parker who has been at the helm for the
last four years, also Chris Taylor and Andrew Wiltshire for the
articles in this issue.
Any suggestions to improve the newsletter will also be welcome.
Unfortunately due to high production costs, it has been decided
that apart from the cover, all pages will now be black & white.
If you can, please submit items for publication. They can be bus
related articles, memories, photographs or whatever.
Please send items by email to viv.corbin@ntlworld.com
Or post to 8 Springfield Rise, Barry, CF63 1RE.
N.B. We now have the ability to scan 120/127 negatives or slides
if anyone is prepared to loan them to print for sale on the stall.
---------------------------
2008 QUIZ NIGHT
Chris Taylor once again presented his annual quiz night on 17 th
December last. Unfortunately the numbers attending this event
were down on previous years.
Those present were divided into four teams with two members
representing the P.S.V. Circle in a team of their own. (Are they
too good?) The first few rounds of the quiz involved identifying
several obscure old bus photographs. Even the so called experts
were foxed by many of these. The evening continued with varied
questions, not only on buses and their operators but railways,
airplanes and ships.
Those present agreed that much fun was had with guessing the
answers, irrespective of which team won. (Where’s my prize?)
Chris spends many hours during the year researching the questions
and was duly congratulated for his efforts. The rumour is that he
has already started compiling the next quiz.
------------------------------
3

MINUTES OF THE 2009 AGM OF CARDIFF TRANSPORT
PRESERVATION GROUP
Registered charity No. 1063157
Held at County Hall, Atlantic Wharf, Cardiff on the evening of
Wednesday 21st January 2009
The meeting opened at 19:30
Present were 31 members among whom were:-
Mike Taylor, Chris Taylor, Viv Corbin, Cliff Parker, Derek Perry,
Alan Poole, Glyn Bowen, Matt Carroll, Alex Jeenes, Paul Hulyier,
Mac Winfield, Patrick Coleman, Lee Adler, Gail Adler, John
Woodward, Michael Davies, Richard Johnson, Berwyn Jones,
Peter Taylor, Paul Gilbertson, Bill Price, Brian Williams, Peter
Smith, Martin Doe, Steve Morgan, Anthony Brewer.
1; Apologies for absence from:-
Nicky Reason, Mark Barnet, Geoff Gould.
2; Minutes of 2008 AGM, accepted.
3; Chairman’s Report;
Cliff Parker has retired as Newsletter/Magazine Editor. Viv
Corbin has volunteered to replace Cliff in this position. Thanks
were offered to Cliff for his work over the last few years.
Membership has risen to 82, the highest recorded.
There were two rallies organised by the CTPG in 2008 plus four
successful road runs.
We had good press coverage of the hand-over and opening of The
Bus Depot Barry on 7 th August 2008, (slides were shown to those
assembled of these events).
8 well-supported monthly meetings were held plus the four road
runs, the chairman expressing thanks to the membership for
supporting these events.
We are now as a group registered with NARTM and appear in
their museum guide and Preserved Buses 2008 book.
4

It was reported that the websites are doing well with hits on the
CTPG site now reaching over 35,000 since its launch.
A good income from rally stall sales was achieved again for 2008,
thanks to those who regularly support our rally sales stand. A
request to the membership for more Welsh bus photographs of any
era, as these are our best sellers.
We have appeared in Bus & Coach Preservation magazine and
Bus & Coach
Barry Depot was steam cleaned internally by the Vale of
Glamorgan Council along with certain other structural repairs.
Now the group are working to repair and repaint the internal fabric
of the building. The chairman spoke at length on the depot
progress as above. A depot work report was given with the aid of
a slide show. Thanks were offered by Lee Adler to the Chairman
and to those who have worked on the Depot.
4; Questions from the floor:
Whereabouts of our remaining stored buses. A list was given
verbally. Regarding the status of our AEC Swift, that is under
repair at Brent Thomas’ yard. There was no news of this yet.
Provisional date for 2009 Barry Rally is 14 June, this however is
not yet finalised. It is proposed to operate a tour from the rally
site to Barry Depot as part of our rally programme.
Merthyr Rally: Some difficulties are at present being experienced
with Merthyr Tydfil Borough Council, as their Officer who
normally deals with this activity is on long term sick leave. This
currently is preventing progress organising this event, and time is
now very short.
5; Financial Report and Annual Accounts, by Treasurer Paul
Hamley.
Questions were asked about rental income, i.e. creditors. This was
answered by Paul Hamley. The reason given for our large water
use on our first bill, was the use of pressure washing equipment
during cleaning of garage walls prior to painting by the group.
Accounts accepted by Chris Taylor and seconded by Cliff Parker.
5

6; Election of Officers:
Chairman: Mike Taylor retained, proposed, seconded and
accepted.
Vice Chairman: Chris Taylor retained, proposed, seconded and
accepted
Secretary: Mac Winfield (stood down).
New secretary Gail Adler, proposed, seconded and accepted.
Treasurer: Paul Hamley, retained, proposed, seconded and
accepted.
Membership Secretary: Derek Perry, retained, proposed, seconded
and accepted.
Thanks were offered on behalf of the group by Glyn Bowen to
Mac Winfield for work as secretary and for the CTPG website, to
Cliff Parker for his work as Newsletter Editor, and to Alex Jeenes
for the Bus Depot Barry website.
The Chairman then offered the following positions:
Merthyr Rally secretary: Proposed and accepted by Glyn Bowen
Barry Rally Communications Officer: Proposed and accepted by
Lee Adler
The Bus Depot Barry webmaster: Alex Jeenes to continue with
this assignment.
CTPG webmaster: Mac Winfield was asked if he would continue
this assignment, which he agreed to do.
The four positions above will be added to the committee if the
CTPG constitution allows.
7; Vehicle Report:
512: As mentioned earlier is still under repair at Brent Thomas’s
Bustler: Awaiting attention by outside repairer.
497: Awaiting repaint
856: Delivery date from the SVBM due about April 2009.
Tow-Bus: Repairs are under way.
434: A brief history was given by Mike Taylor.
143/258/407: The three buses donated by Cardiff Bus are
presently in store.
6

OUH177G: Leopard coach is now at Barry Depot
PUDC number 8, the last Regent V for UK mainland is now at
Barry Depot.
TAX235: Awaiting vacuum system repair
Jones Cub 889AAX: Awaiting head gasket repair.
8; Newsletter:
Thanks given to Cliff Parker the outgoing editor for his efforts.
A suggestion from the floor that we include a section on
depot/vehicle ongoing repairs, Mac Winfield pointed out that the
SVBM do this in their news letter and that this is a good idea for
us. Also a suggestion was made that we include an article from
the newsletter on-line, as a taster but not the whole magazine.
9; 2009 Programme:
2009 programme of events shown to the members present and the
point was made that it is also available on-line at www.ctpg.co.uk
A new addition to the programme is a presentation by Glyn
Bowen of buses of Malta and Cyprus for our April meeting.
It was proposed by Viv Corbin and accepted unanimously that the
fee for road runs be raised to £5 per adult.
It is hoped to use 856, the Leyland PS1 for a road run, on its return
from the SVBM.
The group will look at a road run combing a visit to the Bristol
Flowers Hill open day, or similar destinations.
It was proposed by the Chairman, to introduce a road run
culminating in a meal for those participating at a public
house/restaurant to be arranged. This would likely take place
during January or February annually. This proposal was accepted.
10; Subscriptions:
Subscription for 2009, adult members to remain at £15:00 per
annum. A new joint Spouse/Partner subscription of £25:00 per
annum will be offered. Agreed by all present.
7

11; Any Other Business:
Information on our group activities where appropriate, needs to be
sent out to publishers such as Ian Allan, to create awareness of our
group to the enthusiast public.
Paul Gilbertson recommended that we advertise our presence at
The Bus Depot Barry by using the old Western Welsh timetable
cases attached to the depot wall, as was done for the official
handover of the depot.
Thanks were offered by all present to Lyndon Rees, our
benefactor, without whose help we could not have achieved
obtaining the depot or the rebuilding of 856 and the purchase of
678 and its return to Wales.
Glyn Bowen suggested that the group recognise the late Julian
Brinkworth for his work in the founding of Cardiff Transport
Preservation Group. This would take the form of a plaque to be
attached to the depot building and possibly unveiled by Julian’s
wife with an invitation going to Roy Noble of BBC Radio Wales,
as a friend of Julian and life long enthusiast. This would also give
us some needed publicity from the media. This was broadly
agreed by the membership.
Lee Adler made a request of the members to donate/lend suitable
memorabilia to the bus depot, Barry.
The AGM then concluded at 21:25.
Mac Winfield (out going Secretary). 24/1/2009.
------------------------------
FILM SHOW 18 th February 2009.
At the 18 th February meeting some video film was presented by
some old guy charting the rise of the privatised National Welsh
Company, These included the 1989 bus war in the valleys and the
sad end of National Welsh three years later. This show was well
received by the 33 members and guests attending.
Thanks were given to Viv for saving these videos for posterity.
-------------------------------
8

CARDIFF’S BUSES by Andrew Wiltshire.
MORE CATS……….TIGER CUBS
Fleet numbers: 143-146
Registration numbers: NKG143-146
Chassis type: Leyland PSUC1/1
Engine type: Leyland 0.350 of 90bhp
Brakes:
Air
Gearbox: Leyland 4-speed (1 st and 2 nd constant
mesh) (3 rd and 4 th synchromesh)
Body manufacturer: Longwell Green
Seating layout: B44F
Height:
9ft 10½in
Unladen weight: 6tons 1cwt
Year built: 1957
Depot allocation: Sloper Road, Leckwith
Dates of withdrawal: 1969: 145 1970: 143/4/6
On February 28th 1956 at a meeting of the Council’s Transport
committee it was decided that four single deckers should be
ordered for delivery the same year. The outcome of the tenders
was that four Leyland Tiger Cub chassis be ordered to receive
bodies by Longwell Green of Bristol. The chassis would cost
£1,880 each and the bodies would be £2,150 each. These buses
would replace the last of the pre-war single deckers and would of
course work alongside the Royal Tigers.
WHAT WAS A TIGER CUB?
So what exactly was a Tiger Cub? The Leyland Tiger Cub was
Leyland’s answer to the overweight problem facing the Royal
Tiger and other under floor engine saloons such as the AEC Regal
and Daimler Freeline. Operators were seeking a greater emphasis
on economy as a result of falling passenger numbers in the 1950s.
9

The new generation of saloons in the early 1950s suffered from
poor fuel economy and most weighed in at over eight tons!
Leyland unveiled the Tiger Cub at the 1952 Earls Court Show and
it became obvious that it had thought long and hard with respect to
weight saving. A lot of the weight saving was achieved in the
areas of mechanical units, wheels and tyres. The engine was a
horizontal version of the 0.350 of 90bhp and the chassis was thirty
foot with a 16ft 2in. wheelbase. The Leyland 0.350 engine was
incidentally a faster revving and noisier engine than the 0.600, but
would quite happily push a five and a half ton bus around
moderate terrain!
In its PSUC1/1 form the Tiger Cub had a 4-speed constant mesh
gearbox. After Leyland bought out Albion Motors, a 5 speed
Albion all constant-mesh gearbox became an option. Later a 4
speed pneumo-cyclic was also offered.
Cardiff’s 144 & 146 at Sloper Road with 143 & 145 behind. (Photobus)
10

The Tiger Cub was only available with air brakes. Braking should
have been a lot better, as the drum area was now 623 square
inches, compared to 577 on the Royal Tiger. By 1954 UK sales of
the Royal Tiger has drastically fallen off in favour of the Tiger
Cub. In 1955 a larger engine was announced which had an output
of 95bhp at 2000rpm or 105bhp at 2400rpm. Later engines offered
were the 0.375 of 115bhp and finally the 0.400 of 125bhp.
Cardiff 145 ready to depart for Lavernock in the mid-sixties. (Photobus)
TIGER CUBS IN CARDIFF.
Cardiff’s order for four Tiger Cubs was to replace the last of the
pre-war saloons. Unlike the Royal Tigers these buses could not be
described as attractive, more like distinctive. They were very
similar to Longwell Green bodies on some rare Guy Arab LUF
saloons for Aberdare U.D.C. and also AEC Reliances for
Gelligaer U.D.C. They were of six-bay construction.
11

Upon entry into service the remaining AEC Regals were
withdrawn along with the last three Leyland TS4s which were by
now over 25 years old.
The Tiger Cub’s duties closely followed those of the Royal Tigers
which mainly concentrated them on the Penarth area routes. They
worked to Lower Penarth via Plymouth Road on a later variation
of the 35. Other outings could include the 45 to Caeglas Road via
New Road in Rumney. Later on they would work the 29 to
Caerphilly via Thornhill. In addition they were often used on
numerous private hire duties.
The low bridge in Cogan area was removed in about 1959/60. It
was not a railway bridge apparently, but a private bridge used for
moving cattle to adjacent land. Consequently the requirement for
single deckers on certain workings disappeared although in
practice double deckers rarely ventured into Penarth.
On May 15 th 1966 Cardiff borrowed an AEC Reliance saloon from
Aberdare UDC to conduct trials with the operation of a one man
operated bus. Its place at Aberdare was taken by Cardiff Tiger
Cub 143. Two weeks later the exchange ended.
RUNDOWN TO EXTINCTION.
The writing was on the wall for the Tiger Cubs after 1968 when
Cardiff received its twenty AEC Swifts. The Swifts began to
appear on the Penarth area routes and the Tiger Cubs would spend
increasingly long periods parked up on the forecourt of Sloper
Road depot.
No. 145 was withdrawn in 1969 and donated its engine to 146.
No. 145 was then sold to a Barnsley breaker for scrap. The other
three continued until withdrawal in 1970.
They too were sold for scrap, this time to Bill Way in Cardiff
docks in early 1971. I clearly remember seeing them in his yard
one evening.
12

They were not there long and were either broken up quickly or
sold on to our friends in Yorkshire for breaking.
And so as 1971 dawned, it is quite probable that as many as four
of the Royal Tigers of 1952 still survived in one form or another
but all the Tiger Cubs had been scrapped!
It is possible to make some interesting comparisons between the
Royal Tiger and the Tiger Cub.
Royal Tiger (PSU1/13)
TigerCub (PSUC1/1)
Unladen wt: 7t 17cwt 6t 1cwt
Brakes: Vacuum Air
Brake drum area: 577 sq in 623 sq in
Stopping dist (30mph): 57 ft
40ft
Fuel consumption: 13.66mpg 19.95mpg
The Tiger Cub went on to become a very popular model and
production did not end until 1970. Its place in the Leyland
lightweight saloon range was taken by the Bristol LH.
Incidentally local B.E.T. operator Western Welsh went on to take
the largest number of Tiger Cubs, 347 in total.
I would like to extend my thanks to Chris Taylor, Peter Smith,
Glyn Bowen, Tony Brewer, Dave Thomas, Paul Burgess and the
PSV Circle for help in preparing this article. Thanks also to
Photobus for allowing me to use their material.
------------------------------
13

As Western Welsh Tiger Cubs were mentioned in the previous article, your
editor couldn’t resist these from the archives. This is the first Weymann
bodied Tiger Cub HUH 1, allocated new to Carmarthen Depot in
Oct.1953.
14

15

‘THE CARDIFF THREE’ by Chris Taylor.
The early post-war years were a rough time for most bus
operators. Chassis were easily obtained but bodies were in
desperately short supply.
Cardiff Corporation was in a particularly bad position. It had
ordered AEC Regents and Bristol KW6G’s but delivery was very
slow. There were complaints in newspapers including letters from
individuals regarding the situation. Vehicles were hired from
Hants & Sussex to help ease the situation. Also the fleet was
being rebuilt slowly, together with some body transfers.
A strange market grew up during these years, some operators
managed to obtain new vehicles that they sold to other fleets,
probably at a profit. One of these operators was The
Almondsbury Engineers Ltd. (Fleet-name ‘Streamways’) of
Gloucester Road, Almondsbury.
They operated services in the south Gloucestershire area. The
Managing Director was Mr. J.J. Davies, who had been a Llanelly
R.F.C. player. The Streamways Company later moved into
Penarth by taking over a local operator and ran there until it sold
out to Western Welsh. (Perhaps I will tell the story of this
company in a future newsletter.)
In parallel with the bus operators, the manufacture of bus and
coach bodies was taken up by a great number of new
coachbuilders. One of these was the Scottish Commercial Motor
Company of St. Rollox, Glasgow. The Company began trading
during 1940 and the first bus bodies were fitted to Austin goods
chassis. In 1946 they became agents for Crossley Motors Ltd.
The Company built 23 known bus and coach bodies between 1943
and 1950, the majority of which were for Scottish operators.
Other operators taking these bodies on Crossley chassis were
Ennifer of Doncaster and nearer to home, Cardiff Corporation.
(See the PSV Circle history of Scottish Coachbuilders, recently
published and well worth purchasing).
16

This bus would be similar to the Crossley/Scottish Commercial buses
tested by N&C Coaches. This is ASR 53 new to Brown of Garelochhead in
Dec. 1946.
In 1946 two Crossley double deckers with Scottish Commercial
bodywork were ordered by N&C Coaches of Neath. They were
painted in the brown N&C livery and were seen on the road at
Neath, probably for test purposes, but did not enter service. It
appears that N&C could not get their road service licence
approved for the use of double deckers. They remained
unregistered until they were sold on their return to Scotland.
17

Almondsbury Engineers Ltd. purchased two of these Crossley
DD42/3’s with Scottish Commercial bodies which were registered
GDF 58 and GDG 456 in May and June 1947 respectively. One
of these was illustrated in a contemporary ‘Bus & Coach’
magazine in full Streamways livery.
However, Streamways did not keep them for long as in Nov. 1947
Cardiff Corporation accepted an offer for the two at £3850 each.
Bus historian, the late Gerald Truran, gave me an excellent
description of his sighting of one of these vehicles. He said that
they were fitted new with ‘Lush’ seating with moquette covering.
(See advert). He also said that he was able to make out the
Streamways logo under the Cardiff crimson lake paint.
The two Crossleys entered service with Cardiff in Dec. 1947 as
No.’s 23 & 24 (GDF 58 / GDG 456). During the same month
another Crossley/Scottish Commercial was offered to and
accepted by the Council.
18

This last double decker was a DD42/5 and entered service in July
1948 as No. 25, EBO 103. This bus had a modified frame and
engine mountings. It appears that this bus had been allocated the
registration HAD 141 but was re-registered in Cardiff.
The first two (at least) had moquette seats which were unusual in
the Cardiff fleet. The unladen weight of these was in the 7½ ton
range. What was a bit of a disadvantage was their height, which at
14ft. 8½; were the tallest buses in the fleet. The excessive rolling
on corners caused the Corporation to try to limit the use to routes
that didn’t have too many corners. Routes used were Rhiwbina
(Deri), Snowden Road, Ely and were also seen on other routes
including service 23 to Whitchurch.
Differences between 23/24 and 25 included the position of the fuel
tank on the offside (23/24) and nearside (25). Also 23/24 had
only small front route indicators whereas 25 had larger front and
rear indicators. All three had H30/26R bodywork.
Photographed by Whitchurch Library, on my way home from the High
School. This is No 25, EBO 103 after refurbishment with rubber mounted
windows in June 1958 The bicycle is my Triumph ‘Palm Beach’.
19

Parked in Aug 1953 by the Tax Offices at Llanishen is No 24, GDG 456.
The front indicator shows painted area that probably displayed the
‘Streamways’ fleet-name.
The three plodded around the City on their usual routes until 1961.
No.24 was first to be withdrawn in Feb. 1961, with 23 following
in the July. Both went to Sidney Davies (dealer) of Penygraig.
No. 25 lasted a bit longer being withdrawn in Nov. 1961. Not
many Cardiff buses were sold to other operators in those days and
25 went to Bill Way for scrap in Feb. 1962. However I kept
seeing it on the road in its scruffy Cardiff livery. I believe it was
operating for Stan Davies of Cardiff carrying workers to Llanwern
Steel Works until at least April 1962. I went one afternoon to
Llanwern to see the 100 or so workers’ buses and No.25 was
there. When I went to look at it I was waylaid by the driver who
was very defensive. You might like to make your own opinions
about this. The bodies for six Crossley DD42/7 delivered to
Cardiff in 1949 No’s 42-6 & 51 were initially ordered through
Scottish Commercials, but the manufacture was transferred to W.
Alexander Ltd. who used a design similar to the Leyland bodies of
the time.
All images in this article are from the Chris Taylor collection.
20

Cardiff No.23, GDF 58 halts outside Evan Robert’s store in Kingsway on
its regular route from Rhiwbina. In the lower view at Kingsway, the same
bus shows its lack of rear route information.
(Chris Taylor)
21

OLD CROSSLEYS NEVER DIE!
Cardiff Crossley No. 46, EBO 900 was saved for preservation in 1966.
These early views show Robert Milford preparing for a repaint and a
young Glyn Bowen at the wheel. This bus is at present quietly resting in a
Treforest warehouse awaiting a pile of money. (D.G.Bowen/C.J.Taylor)
22

DATES FOR YOUR DIARY
18 th March; CTPG Meeting; Slide show, ‘Variations on a
theme’ presented by Robert Edworthy
29 th March; Bristol V.B.G. Running Day at Brislington.
5 th April; Cobham Bus Museum Rally.
15 th April; CTPG meeting; Slide show on Malta & Cyprus
buses by Glyn Bowen.
2-4 th May; Llandudno Transport Festival at Bodafon Fields.
17 th May; Scottish Vintage Bus Museum Running Day.
17 th May; Bristol Harbourside Rally 2009.
20 th May; CTPG Road Run (vehicle to be confirmed)
14 th June; Barry Festival of Transport & Depot Open Day.
17 th June; CTPG Road Run (vehicle to be confirmed)
21 st June Under Milk Wood Road Run, Swansea.
21 st June; Weymouth Vintage Bus Running Day.
28 th June; Stroud Group Running Day.
28 th June; Welsh Heartlands Transport Festival, Nelson
15 th July; CTPG Road Run (vehicle to be confirmed)
31 st July–2 nd Aug. The 35 th Transport Rally at Kemble, Glos.
9 th August; Bristol V.B.G./Avon Valley Railway Running Day
15/16 th Aug; Scottish Vintage Bus Museum Open Weekend.
19 th Aug; CTPG Road Run with Bristol Greyhound.
6 th Sept. Torbay Vintage Bus Running Day.
16 th Sept; CTPG / O.S. joint event with James Freeman on
S.W.T. and Friends of King Alfred Motor Services.
20 th Sept; W.H.O.T.T. Rally at Exeter.
21 st October CTPG meeting; Mike Walker presents the 2 nd part
of ‘Life on the Buses.’
18 th Nov; CTPG meeting (T.B.C.)
17 th Dec; CTPG Quiz Night presented by Chris Taylor.
PLEASE CHECK FOR UPDATES ON OUR WEBSITE
WWW.CTPG.CO.UK
23

Some of the members’ vehicles at Barry Depot
Members vehicles at Barry Depot
A January arrival at the depot was EDV 525D, this MW coach.
24