Harold-Berndt-Interv.. - American Antigravity

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By Tim Ventura & Harold Berndt, June 29th, 2007For three years now, Harold Berndt has been on the trail of something big - and he may havefinally found it: In early 2006, he captured the first new footage of the classic Hutchison Effect,with video that touched off a firestorm of controversy on the internet. We join Harold to talk abouthis experiences hunting UFO's and other strange phenomenon, and for the first time he reveals themystery behind the secretive annual Mt. Shasta retreat...AAG: Everybody has that one experience that opens them up to the unknown, and I'm wonderingwhat that inspiration was for you. What first got you interested in UFO's?Berndt: On the surface you would think this should be a fairly easy question to answer. I guessI've always thought about the ET/UFO phenomenon (as most people do, even if they don't publiclyadmit it) as it's just such a fascinating topic. But the one experience that seemed to fully "awakenme" to become this pro-active was a sighting I witnessed in August of 2004. After that sighting, Ibecame determined to find answers... and at first, I decided to look for an Earth bound answer as Ihad heard about specialized and secret satellite arrays and other "stuff" we have up there. Butafter receiving a number of "this isn't ours" responses, I began to check UFO reports to see if Imight come across a similar sighting. This research took me to some pretty far out sources withmany different ideas and I soon realized I was in the middle of a kind of "swamp-gas" pool ofeverything from the kooky, silly and downright weird views on the phenomena to some of themost compelling evidence and testimony available. I found very early on that what I was gettinginto was going to require a great deal of discernment and caution as it's my opinion (as well asmany others) that this is one of the most (if not thee most) controversial, misinformed andmisunderstood topics on the planet today. I also soon realized I was "growing-up" in manyAMERICAN ANTIGRAVITY PAGE 2

espects as I slowly came to realize this entire other "world" had been taking place while I was soblissfully naive and unaware.AAG: Now it's logical that if you're studyingUFO's you'd run across Disclosure Project, butyou've gone even further and become theVancouver area representative for the project.I'm wondering what you saw in this projectthat really sold you on it, and what it means tobe the area representative?Berndt: You know, its one thing to head upand lead a worthy cause... and it's another toactually have the ability, talent and resolve tosee it through. What I found with DP, CSETI andthe other efforts, was a founder who not onlyhad above reproach credentials... but analmost "born" ability to convey the message.This is paramount in any worthy cause if it's tobe successful. I found and felt with Dr. StevenGreer, a true, caring and more than ableindividual. Disclosure is a grass roots effort andas such, we are a non profit society with nocorporate or sponsored funding and we relyheavily on volunteers and donations. I feel thatI'm not only a rep for Disclosure... but I'm a repfor truth and I'm very proud and honored to bea part of this effort!AAG: I've heard that the Disclosure Project'slong awaited Washington DC presentationhappened only days before September 11th,and the turmoil that followed has shiftedpublic attention towards more immediateissues like global terrorism. Do you thinkDisclosure took a hit due to timing, and as ourworld slowly returns to normal, will Disclosureonce again build momentum?Mt. Shasta: Dr. Steven Greer (left) and HaroldBerndt on retreat at the Mt. Shasta UFO-gathering.Berndt: Actually, the DC conference was May 11, 2001 but the real headway and push forcongressional hearings was to come in the wake of the conference in the following months. Thenthe tragic events of 9-11 happened and it seemed that causes like DP were relegated to the backburner with the focus becoming absorbed in terrorism, who the next enemy might be, fear basedpropaganda and so on... The country needed to grieve and heal and this is understandable. Thequestion is and looms larger -every day- with A-list celebrities like Rosie and Charlie SheenAMERICAN ANTIGRAVITY PAGE 3

speaking up as well as the countless scientists and specialists, all of whom are asking (if notdemanding) further independent investigations on 9-11. We could do a complete additional articleon this issue alone... but I'll leave it at that.AAG: Hundreds of thousands of UFO sightings since the 50's make it a bona-fide phenomenon,but it's been going on long enough without a definitive explanation that it's also become a culture,and some would say a religion as well. Different storytellers talk about alien underground bases inthe desert, reverse-engineered government UFO's, abductions of thousands of people, and muchmore...I'm wondering in your view what we know about UFO's, versus what we only think we know.Berndt: Good Question... It's my personal analysis that we are being visited and have been fromperhaps the beginning (whenever that may have been). After you get past this important first step,the fork in yellow brick road takes off in a series ofdetours, off ramps and dead ends and negotiating theroad to the truth requires a tremendous amount ofdiscernment and discipline. The discipline factor (for meanyway) involves being acutely aware of any residualanthropocentric thoughts I may let slip through inrelation to the phenomenon. In reality, many aspects ofthis phenomenon could, quite literally, be beyond thecomprehension of the human mind. This is why weconcentrate on the one common denominator that allintelligent beings have in relation to each other... pureunbound consciousness. I believe this is the foundationwe all must start from or we risk building a fragilestructure of pseudo-knowledge on top.The “Drone”: This 2007 photo is thelatest fad in over 50 years of UFO reports.AAG: Is it enough simply to say that we know something is going on? I'm wondering if maybe wedon't need to know the whole story: only that something's happening and the best efforts by thegovernment that we know of included 3 men and a filing cabinet in project Blue Book. What areyour thoughts on something like a modern-day bluebook effort, perhaps including modern dataminingtechniques & potentially even open-sourcing the project to the public?Berndt: Of course, it's now well known that Blue Book was a ruse... a kind of public pacifier andnever was an honest attempt at investigating the truth behind the phenomenon. In fact, J. AllenHynek who was placed as the head of this operation, later became a staunch believer and spokeopenly & honestly of his knowledge which is quite compelling considering he was an activedebunker in the beginning. Any forum for opening a dialogue and exposing the truth is paramountin a complex effort like this. I believe the public must become pro-active in these issues, however,it's going to take a collective paradigm shift to accomplish this. Too many people are satisfied aslong as they have their comforts and conveniences and it isn't until the apple cart is upset thatalerts the vast majority of the population to sit up a take notice. I have however noticed a subtlechange in attitudes with some of today's openly discussed issues such as the environment &global warming, the "occupation" of Iraq and the tiring barrage of fear peddling that's becoming alltoo obvious. I'm hopeful this trend of awakening will continue and evolve.AMERICAN ANTIGRAVITY PAGE 4

AAG: Speaking of which, I'm wondering if the bureaucracy that you deal with in Canada has thesame approach as down here in the states. These days, I think a lot of Americans feel that ourgovernment is just plain incapable of telling the truth on any subject, and maybe that UFO's justfall victim to the same cover-ups that happened with Monica Lewinsky and Halliburton. Now Iknow that Disclosure has been pushing immunity from prosecution as a legal method forencouraging whistleblowing, and I'm wondering what your thoughts are regarding this as a legaltool for finding the truth.Berndt: I believe our role in disclosure to be two fold. The initial focus was and is to create anopen forum for exposing the truth. Of course the reality is, disclosure could come in ways wehaven't anticipated... or worse, in ways we have and it's disclosure's work as well as that of ourparallel group CSETI to develop an understanding of the implications that may arise frommanipulated disclosure for specific agendas such as weoponizing space and a massive militaryfunding campaign should ET attack! In this event, our work will be one of education as a resourceto further the understanding of why this is happening and what we can do to help limit thedamage that results. Perhaps an online resource clearly identifying some of the many waysdisclosure may come as well as the agendas behind it. People need to wake up and understandthat "not all that glitters is gold" and when the eventual attempt at a pseudo-disclosure happens...we need to have our antenna up. Regarding the legal ramifications, Dr. Greer makes an excellentpoint as it's his opinion and I completely agree, that any agreements or gag orders any witness hasbeen place under are unconstitutional and therefore illegal and unenforceable. Many of ourwitnesses have already bravely come forward believing they have a patriotic duty under thosewise and timeless words that start with "We the People"... Of course Congressional Hearingswould remove any ambiguity in this regard and we do have many more witnesses ready to comeforward under this protection.AAG: On the other hand, if there is a conspiracy covering up UFO's like many people seem tobelieve, is it possible that some kind of immunity is exactly what they're waiting for to comeforward? I mean, Nick Cook has written about the Air Force strong-arming witnesses at the site ofa stealth fighter crash-site, and I can't help but wonder how many careers or even lives have beensacrificed in the sake of secrecy if any of this conspiracy talk is true. Wouldn't that in itself beenough to warrant some kind of independent commission?Berndt: You'd think so... wouldn't you? I can't help but put myself in the position of some ofthese marginalized and/or eliminated individuals... and there is just too much evidence of livesruined or removed to protect information and secrets known by these people. To know that thistype of control was in fact used during the cold war etc... and to not consider that this would be a"given" modus operandi in the covert world of black projects and especially the UFO/ETIphenomenon... is in my opinion extremely naive.AAG: I'd like to ask if you know what current trends are for the Disclosure Project. I mean, anynews about new government whisteblowers coming forward, and any rumors about anotherpresentation in Washington DC to build up that political lobby?AMERICAN ANTIGRAVITY PAGE 5

Berndt: I've been involved with Disclosure (andrelated interests) for just about 3 years now and ithas become increasingly clear that disclosure justmay come in a form or at a time that we haveabsolutely no control over. The initial focus fordisclosure's initiative was from a grass-roots levelwith reps from all over the world holdinginformation presentations and getting the "wordout" as best as they can. Being a non profit society,we rely quite heavily on volunteers andpresentations to give the general public enoughinformation so they can then perform their own duediligence for themselves. I think it's quite possiblethat we (humans) are so wrapped up in some of theefforts and perceived successes (2001 Washingtonconference as an example), that we forget that if ET,(let's say... a more advance consciousness - et al)wanted us to definitively know they are here... I thinkI can safely say that within no time at all... the worldwould be given the evidence "they need". I'm alsostarting to believe that disclosure is taking it'snatural course... that, other than a few variables, theplan has been in the works for a "little while" now.And if you've been keeping up with some of the newpeople speaking up such as Canada's formerMinister of Defense the Hon. Paul Hellyer andothers... and the recent increase in sightings aroundthe world which are also getting main stream mediaattention... we could actually be witnessing thebeginning of the "summit climb" of disclosure inaction, but more like watching the hour-hand ratherthan the second-hand of a clock. There is a growingimpatience as well as a literal exhaustion also takingplace as some of the long timers and those whohave dedicated their lives to eking out the truth arehitting a kind of wall and for "some", the problemmay be akin to watching paint dry! However, at leastwith paint drying, we have past experience to let usknow "it will dry". I bet the first person to ever usepaint had many moments of suspense and perhapsfrustration until the paint started showing signs ofdrying. And once the drying starts... the speed ofcuring picks up exponentially. It just may turn outthat rather than Mr. Disclosure going toWashington... we could see Washington (et al)Dr. Steven Greer: Shown speaking aboutclose encounters at Mt. Shasta in mid-2006.AMERICAN ANTIGRAVITY PAGE 6

coming to the disclosure community for help and council when they realize they are both notequipped as well as not ready to Govern a public who among other emotional responses... justmay be getting ready for a lynching once they know the truth. I don't think we will get through thiswithout the revelation that the powers that be have had the proverbial "shields-up" on this topicsince before The Duke was a cowboy. Metaphorically speaking, we could have quite a crop ofdaisies spring up at that time!AAG: Now for the last couple of years, you've accompanied Disclosure Project founder Dr. StevenGreer on annual trips to Mt. Shasta, right? I understand that it's a way for the DisclosureCommunity to connect, and that it's a region with a fair number of UFO sightings, so you're able tomingle, compare notes, and maybe even witness the unexplained. Can you tell me about thesetrips?Berndt: Actually, it's our CSETI team which conducts the field and contact work. We arebreaking new ground here with some of the efforts and initiatives we have undertaken guided byDr. Greer's invaluable leadership. Many others are naively calling for undeniable contact andsubsequent disclosure "right bloody now"... but I can see a scenario where if undeniable contactwas to happen (and for some experienced people... if you ask them, it already has) and properprotocols and etiquette had not been established... it could be quite a mess. Of course... until weare prepared... I do not think a true world wide contact and disclosure will happen... Our societyadheres to a learned principal which basically dictates that once the "ability to perform" has beenestablished... then responsibility and reward follows. As just one of a multitude of possibilities,what if we are dealing with an intelligence that allows everyone a (true) even playing field fromthe get-go (what a concept). Imagine giving someone you don't know, the responsibility as thehead chef at an eatery you may own. This person has no references, no practical experience butthey say they know they can do it because for years they have been preparing the same types offoods for their village. In our society I'm sure this person would be treated respectfully while atthe same time being politely shown the door. Now, imagine an advanced society that has theability to "sense" the sincerity (or lack there-of) in a person. At least the employer would "know"this person believes in their ability. Now imagine if even further extrasensory abilities went intoplay here! So, in many ways, calling for and even demanding disclosure, (forcing without properpreparation), just may be similar to ancient tribes people trying to relate to today's humans wheremuch misunderstanding and even suspicions is likely to manifest. Obviously this could have animpeding or devastating effect on laying a healthy foundation in this early relationship.One of the first principals I became acutely aware of on my first expedition to Mt. Shasta comesfrom a very functional and healthy attitude of "respect". Much like many aboriginal peoples havefor every aspect of their lives. I found myself actually being conscious of the plant and insect lifebelow my feet and once I became aware... I couldn't help but side-step "when possible and safe"which to me is a healthy balance of respect for all of life including myself (E.g.: I wouldn't side stepa bug or plant should the alternative foot hold have me possibly going over a cliff). In many ways,we are very much in our infancy as we are still learning what seems to work and what doesn'tseem to work... we're adopting new approaches and discarding others... basically, (IMHO) we arereally only now starting to learn how to "shake our rattle". It is imperative that we also discardour old anthropocentric mindsets. Of course the first step is to drop our individual as well asAMERICAN ANTIGRAVITY PAGE 7

collective egos to create a clean canvas so we can actually become aware of this and otherhuman traits and paradigms which hold us back. I did not really know what to expect on my firsttrip to Mt. Shasta but what I found went way beyond anything I could have expected. I met andnow know CSETI members form almost everywalk of life. On my first trip I met constructionworkers, pilots, short order cooks,astronomers, retail clerks, a number of MD's,aerospace engineers, Nasa employees allcommitted to furthering their understandingand how to initiate and conduct diplomaticcontact with our visitors. When we break downall the components that make up our species, Ibelieve at the core of our existence (andprobably the most important building block westart with, is our consciousness) and that weare really all the same and equal in this regard.It could quite likely be that all the labels,achievements & failures etc (titles, PhD's,wealth, poverty, oppression etc...) that weacknowledge as humans and could becompletely unique to our species, really meansabsolutely squat from a cosmologicalviewpoint. If that's the case... just whatcommon denominator will we then have tointeract with another species who may have acompletely "different" set of values, standardsand physics? With this understanding, weattempt to initiate contact using a combinationof meditation and peaceful thought processesin combination with nuts and bolts equipmentlike magnetometers, lasers & other recordingdevices. The later helps corroborate what wemay be experiencing in the etheric or less thanphysical plane as well as the possible(physical) materialization or appearance ofcraft or otherwise. This might sound like abunch of new-age rhetoric and/or fluff andthere was a time I would have squirmed in myseat with what now is so much a part of mylife... but that's maturing and growth... isn't it!Planning Period: Harold Berndt and Steven Greerdiscussing Disclosure strategy for the upcoming year.AAG: Have you seen anything at Mt. Shasta? The number of sightings reported annually in the USis pretty large, but still tiny compared to the population, so if not it makes sense. However, withthat many people hoping to spot a UFO in one place, I'd hope that you'd have a sighting story. Onthat note - any other fun or exciting events happen on these trips?AMERICAN ANTIGRAVITY PAGE 8

Berndt: Earlier this year, a group of senior CSETI members, disclosure witnesses and others gottogether to relate and share past experiences... some stories new and some old. I was scheduledto attend this week long event however, work and other immediate issues prevented me formattending. None the less, the substance of that week is being transcribed and a book will bewritten focusing on "The CSETI Experience". I would encourage anyone truly interested in our workto watch for this book. Of course there is nothing... and I mean NOTHING that compares to actualfirst hand experience. What awoke me was the sighting I described earlier but I have had"experiences" all my life including some repetitive and very lucid "dreams" as a child. Perhapsduring a future article we can discuss some of these experiences but for now I will focus on thequestion at hand. Actually, most new people who come out to our field work anticipate seeingsomething physical. Unfortunately, we do have many close aerial (and ground based) sightingsduring our work, but for the most part, these are our very own Military, Air Force and "others"? Dr.Greer is definitely on the radar scope of these and other government departments and it's prettywell known that occasionally, a proverbial shot across the bow is experienced by the group. Andit's this very presence and threat that prevents a safe environment for open sightings. We've shotat them before and for some perplexing reason we will do it again so the sightings that have takenplace over the years, I would imagine, are very carefully considered before being carried out. Thatbeing said, my first year at Mt. Shasta provided us with an incredible and very majestic "fly over"as I will explain. It was cold... very cold and it was also after midnight and we were just wrappingthings up for the evening. We were standing in a circle and I was facing East with my back directlyto the West. Like I said, it was cold (40-45F degrees). Even at the beginning of September inNorthern California, when you are 6-7,000 feet up on the side of a mountain... well... brrrrr! I hadmy face buried in my chest under my turtle neck. I was blowing warm air into my upper torso areawhen I heard Dr. Greer say something like "Oh my God" and then gasps by others. I quickly (I meanquickly) lifted my head just in time to see the remaining trajectory of two parallel and brightgolden "arrow-head" shaped points of light about half a pinky finger nail in size at arms length.Behind these "craft" were two very distinct and "structured" plasma-like trails of light. I'm not surehow high these craft were but they appeared to be at a much, much higher altitude than say acruising airliner. If you've ever seen a super-sonic jet traverse the sky... it's quite impressive butvery easily followed and what I saw that evening has left an indelible impression which doesn'teven come nano-close to the later. Whatever these two objects were, they traversed the entiresky, horizon to horizon within 10-15+/- seconds... it was so quick that I had to virtually performcontortions to see the balance of the event and I almost fell backwards as I was leaning back andtwisting at the same time. When it was over... our group just stood there dumbfounded andexhilarated at the same time. Unfortunately for them, there were a handful of people out ofapproximately 40 of us that were doing the same thing I was (blowing warm air etc...) and becauseit was so quick... they missed it. But those who witnessed this will most likely never forget it. Afterthis sighting, I kept checking local papers and media (when I had time) as I thought someone elseoutside of our group surely must have seen this... someone in town or the area but I didn't see anyreference to it and it was, in fact, late (after midnight). But I kept checking UFO reports fromvarious sources and one day... BINGO!.. I found a report in which the person, just a couple ofmonths before our sighting, and in another area of California, described a sighting which wasalmost identical to what we witnessed. I immediately sent the description and graphic image downto the CSETI coordinator, Debbie Foch, who reported back to me that yes... the description andgraphic sure does look like what we witnessed. (Tim... I have attached this report and graphic ifyou want to include it.)AMERICAN ANTIGRAVITY PAGE 9

AAG: I understand your son Bryan went along on this last outing - did he get a lot out of it, ordoes a lot of meaning in the experience come from your connections & activism in the UFOcommunity?Berndt: My older son Bryan is probably a good example of that sect of people who are very rigidand require empirical evidence which is obviously based within our (human's) model of knownphysics and science. The problem with this is... the individual holding this standard is inadvertentlylooking for (or perhaps only prepared to "see") nothing more than the equivalent of... well... of"US"! In other words... this person is expecting to find evidence of advanced beings who still listento simple radio signals, pop a Bud and watch the latest game of the tube! For those that have notbeen fortunate enough to have had a sighting or other profound experience, they are left with thecurrent accumulation of evidence we do have (which is substantial). However, most people havelives to lead and are not prepared or motivatedsufficiently to dive deep enough into our poolof evidence and/or remain in the water longenough to start to understand and/or piecetogether the bigger picture. And then there isthe dis and mis-information infusedeverywhere within the phenomenon whichtakes people off the true track and in somecases... simply leads them all the way downthe wrong road. I hope you don't get the wrongidea... I don't claim to know exactly what weare dealing with here or whether or not I evenpossess the capacity to come close tounderstanding. But I have conducted enoughresearch and field work, combined with someof my own sightings and experiences to have apretty good idea what we are NOT dealingwith. And it sure isn't a situation where weneed the "Fresh Prince" and the President tosave us from the Alien menace. Only inHollywood! I'm hoping to take my younger son,Michael with me on a future expedition. Mike,as far as I know, doesn't adhere to the samerigid "text-book" protocol that Bryan does, andI know he would like to come and he just mayexperience the trip from a different view point.Long Night: A tired Harold adjusting a sandal aftera very long night of UFO-hunting at Mt. Shasta.AAG: Is the annual Mt. Shasta Trip an event that most people would benefit from? I should askhow they can learn more or get involved if it's something their interested in.Berndt: I think I've covered some of this above but for those that would like to get involved orexplore the topic closer... it's really not that difficult. I think the most difficult part is to actuallyAMERICAN ANTIGRAVITY PAGE 10

make a decision and commit to seeing it through. After all, we are not talking about a leisurely tripto Vegas or Hawaii here... There is not much free time, that is... if you want to get enough rest, aswe are busy with daily workshops and discussions, then dinner and then back up the mountainuntil 1-2AM. That being said, those that are interested can simply visit www.cseti.org and all theinformation, requirements and applications are available there. I can say this without hesitation...those that come and remain open minded, put in an honest effort (and it does take effort) and seethe week through... without exception usually say at the end that it not only had one of the biggestimpacts on them but that they felt it would change their lives forever. At the absolute very least...(and the coldness of late evening aside)... sitting under the stars in an area with absolutely no lightnoise, with wonderful people and incredible conversation, in itself is well worth the trip. And, inaddition to Dr. Greer's vast night sky knowledge, we usually have other experts and astronomersin the group who are more than open to gracing us with their expertise and experience. Being aRealtor for over 20 years now, I have spent thousands of dollars to attend motivational and lifeskills workshops related to my business and I have not gotten a fraction of the value I feel I havegotten from the CSETI work and training.AAG: I'd like to change gears a bit, as anotherarea that you've really done some great workin is supporting & documenting the recentresearch of weird-science legend JohnHutchison. What can you tell me about him asa person, and what are your thoughts on hisresearch?Berndt: I contacted John very early in myresearch as he's just a stones throw from meover the bridge in New Westminster BC. Johnwas very open and gracious and was morethan willing to allow me into his world. And it'squite a world I don't mind saying. Without anyreal formal education, John is more of anintuitive tinkerer than a text book physicist buthe also comes across as a very intelligent,gracious and quiet man. I guess most peoplehave a hard time getting past his eccentricitiesand other aspects which sets him apart makingit hard for some to open up enough to seebeyond the overtly obvious (and not soobvious) and get to the "heart" of the man...which is a big & compassionate one at that!Paranormal Legend: Inventor John Hutchison athis lab during AAG-filming with Berndt in mid-2005.AAG: Hutchison's had many people with cameras come to visit, but you're one of the very fewwho's actually seen the true, "classic" Hutchison-Effect up-close and in-person. What can you tellme about the event that you filmed last year with a rack of equipment slamming itself into a wall?AMERICAN ANTIGRAVITY PAGE 11

Berndt: It literally almost blew me away! Quite frankly, I didn't know what to expect when Johncalled me asking if I would like to come over and video-tape the Hutchison Effect in action. Johnpreviously had "set-up" for National Geographic's TV show as they were there taping for an upcomingspecial. I was also a little concerned that John was actively experimenting again as theCity of New Westminster, after numerous complaints from neighbors that ceramic plates wereflying off their counters, noises and creaking sounds could be heard and other anomalous eventshappening. What the reader may not know... is that because of circumstances and various "labraiding"by ???... John now had his lab and every bit of his equipment, metal samples and livingquarters all housed within a standard 700 square foot (+/-) one bedroom apartment. And theexperimenting wasn't John's only problem with the city. After all, he had thousands of pounds ofscience and physics gear, a naval and gun collection, radar scopes, Tesla coils & frequencygenerators and to get a good idea of what the inside looks like... one just has to stroll by hisbalcony which has become a kind of weird tourist attraction in the City. When the City realizedwho this mad scientist really was... instead of continuing the plan to rid the town of John...engineers were sent out to determine if the apartment was safe and if not, what type ofreinforcement and support structure would be needed. The solution served to stave off evictionbut it also added to the crapped quarters he lived within as there are support cables and chainseverywhere. These support cables have been suspected by a few with an untrained eye to be apart of a dastardly scheme to hoax and fake some of the experiments he conducts including theHutchison Effect itself. Witnessing it for yourself aside, one needs only look at the metal samplesand the reams and reams of government documents and correspondence to put that suspicion torest definitively.AAG: You're also one of the few people who'sseen John's metal-samples up close, and I'mwondering if you could describe them a bit forme? Do they appear to be authentic, and whatare your thoughts after seeing pieces of metalwarped so dramatically?Berndt: Without question, even with mylimited experience, these metal samples haveobviously undergone some type ofunconventional transformation. They have alsobeen analyzed and it's been determined whatdidn't happen to them. The only conventionalexplanation for the warping, twisting and thetype of "stalactite-stalagmite" separationwould be a process involving massive amountsof heat. Of course these samples were notsubjected to heat and the transformation tookplace with the samples and the environmentbeing at or about room/lab temperature.Again... if it were a hoax, I can't imagine all thevarious government agencies and peopleThe Effect: One of Hutchison’s many deformedsamples of metals warped by the Hutchison Effect.AMERICAN ANTIGRAVITY PAGE 12

taking such an interest as well as falling for the equivalent of the proverbial "snake-oil salesman".AAG: Now we spoke only days after you filmed this, and you'd mentioned that you'd beenfocused on a vacuum-tube that changed pitch - giving off a chaotic, choppy buzz almost like it wasbreaking down right before this event happened, right? Also, you said that there was static in theroom, and that when you mentioned this to John he indicated that this often happens before theonset of the effect, right?Berndt: You have to understand... this wasthe first time I had ever been in a situation likethis. I was also very conscious of the fact thatnot too many people have been fortunateenough to be right there, with camera runningshould just the right frequency and highvoltage combination among many othervariables all come together to produce an"event". We were well into the experiment andtaping and John was busy takingmeasurements and adjusting variouscomponents in the other room. I believe it wasjust a couple of minutes prior to the eventwhere you can hear me make a comment that Iwas feeling static in the air and around me. Inreality, it was quite un-nerving but I kept mycomposure even though all the hair on mybody was at attention. The target area (wherethe bulk of the HE was being directed) wasVacuum Tube: A closeup of the tube that startedemitting a breakdown noise just before the “event”.fairly undefined so I was panning and zooming and just as I zoomed in on a spark-gap tube, therewas a momentary increase in static while at the same time I heard some type of whooshing sound.As I do when I'm video taping the sky out in the field, I had one eye trained thru the view finder andthe other observing the surrounding area when I witnessed an apparatus (directly above the tube Iwas focusing on) which supported some very heavy equipment stacked on perhaps a 4' X 8' reenforcedplatform suspended from the ceiling. This weighed well over 1,000 pounds (maybe 1,500)and what I saw was quite incredible. The entire apparatus "jumped" briefly and then began tosway from side to side slightly. By the time John made his way from the far side of the apt/lab, theswaying had slowed to maybe 1/2 to 1 inch in each direction which John also saw. As exciting asthis was... there was legitimate concern for the second floor apartment's structure so Johnimmediately shut it down... but we had it... we had it on tape even if I almost missed it with myimpatient panning and zooming.AAG: Being a rational man, and familiar with the paranormal (which also describes John'sapartment on a good day), are you now convinced that the Hutchison Effect is for real? I still hearpeople complain about stage props and trickery despite all the evidence over the last 20 years, butas somebody who's been there I'm wondering what you believe?AMERICAN ANTIGRAVITY PAGE 13

Berndt: Personally, my observation is that formost advances and innovations (if you ask theinventor for an honest answer) they will tellyou that a "thought, dream or vision" precededthe finding, experiment or invention. Sure...there have been many "bench-built" devicesthrough trial, error and endless, mile longequations. But there have been an equal orbetter number of these intuitive successes. Icame into John's life at a time when most ofJohn's work was now a memory and mostlikely documented in a filing cabinet at thePentagon with his name on it. I found that mostof the critics just simply do not know fromwhere they speak. Many of these accusationsof props, cables and strings come from peoplewho, first of all... are more than skeptics andare actually looking to debunk John's work.Whether they are debunkers or otherwise,many have confused some of the supportstructure in John's apartment for staged propsetc.. I know of a piece of video where peoplecried foul after seeing a "string" attached to atoy UFO John was levitating. What they don'tknow is that the toy ran free from this "string"as it was in actual fact, a high voltage wiredelivering a charge to the immediate area ofthe toy. Much like the high voltage wire youand I have used in "Lifter" or electrograviticcraft experiments applying the Biefeld-Browneffect. To the layperson, these wires could alsobe construed as "props". But you and I bothknow (as well as hundreds of replicators allover the world) that this just isn't so.The Balcony: Harold shown looking in disbelief atHutchison’s famously crowded balcony/storage area.AAG: I understand John has a local protege as well - a younger fellow named Adrien Stone - andhe's also reporting some Hutchison-like Effects. I think we've both met Adrien, but you know himmuch better than I, and I'm wondering what you can tell me about him and how his research isprogressing?Berndt: Adrien was a neighbor of John's just one floor down in the same apartment building andthis is where I met him. From what I can see, Adrien is a very intelligent and open minded personAMERICAN ANTIGRAVITY PAGE 14

who has tried to be a source of support for John. When I met Adrien he was working on areplication on the Arc of the Covenant experiment which John conducted for Blue Book Films onlocation in Richmond BC at a make shift lab. John's hypothesis on the Arc in a nut shell is that itwas basically a giant capacitor and when carried by soldiers thru the dry desert sands, a massivecharge built up and stored itself within the gold laden walls of the Arc and could then be releasedsimilar to lightning bolts which, as written, wiped out vast armies of soldiers. Today Adrien nowlives in Surrey and to be honest, I'm not sure what the status is in their relationship or how hisresearch is progressing. I do believe he is still busy replicating some of John's work as well as hisown.AAG: John's life has been a bit chaotic lately: he's been talking about moving, chatting withHollywood producers, and just got married down in Arizona, if I remember correctly. Do you thinkthis mean's he'll slow down a bit on the work for a while, or quit doing his experiments altogether?Berndt: John is feeling pretty burned out.This is no secret as he openly talks about this.If I were in John’s position, I might not havehad the staying power he has mustered to thisday. It's also no secret that there are a fewpeople along the way who managed to parlaysome of the findings John was directlyresponsible for into vast empires of money andwealth. At this point in his life, it's all beendone! John's work has been taken into thebasements of black-op labs and exploited (I'msure) into everything from weapon applicationsto propulsion and energy alternatives. All thewhile we still drive around in oil burningdinosaurs and paying thru the nose to do it! Ithink John is looking at the rest of his life andHalina Kacicki: John Hutchison’s new bride, whichprecipitated a move for John to Arizona in mid-07.is longing for a level of normalcy and stability. Hollywood has always been at his door and I think ifthe right offer came along... he would take it. He would probably enjoy being part of a show similarto a Myth-Buster's format and I think it would be very beneficial to have someone like Johnhelping open the minds of children and adults alike. I don't think we've seen the last of John as Ibelieve there will always be someone wanting him to spark things up.AAG: I'd like to wrap things up with a question about you're future: I understand that you putsome of your paranormal research on hold recently to rebuild your real-estate practice, but thatyou've started doing media work again like the Rafe Mare show, and I'm wondering what you'refuture plans are in this area? What can we expect to see from you in the future?AMERICAN ANTIGRAVITY PAGE 15

Berndt: Thanks Tim and I want to thank youfor inviting me to discuss some of these vitalissues with you. As you know, unless you arewilling to "go commercial" in the precariousfield of the Paranormal... there's really isn't away to make a living unless you have a book topeddle. So... real estate or pouring latte's atStarbucks... the bills have to be paid. I would,however, like to contribute a little more than Ihave been to date. I also didn't want to becomeopenly public until I felt I actually had createda solid foundation of knowledge andexperience to offer... "something" substantialto add or a new fresh view rather than rehashingthe same old thing but just moving thepotatoes to the other side of the plate (if youknow what I mean). In that regard, I would liketo start to become a little more visual and thisarticle is one of the recent projects I've agreedto. A few weeks ago, as you know, I alsoappeared on a Canadian TV show called TalkOttawa with fellow CSETI member RichardLalancette, Brian Vike of HBCCUFO (a UFOreporting web site), and Exopolitical activistHarold Berndt: A closeup photo of Harold takenduring filming at Hutchison’s in mid-2005.Victor Viaganni. I'm looking forward to whatever I can contribute in the public forum includingfuture television and radio appearances. I've also started a blog spot I've entitled: "The Meta-Harold - the blog edition" which I'm still working on and adding to and if I really get energetic... I'llpost a full blown web site with the same name. Other than that, I will continue my field andresearch work with CSETI, my Disclosure work as well as any appropriate speaking engagementsI'm asked to participate in.Harold Berndt is the Canadian representative for the Disclosure Project and well-known Real EstateAgent in the Vancouver, BC area. Photos in this article were provided by Harold Berndt. Foradditional information on his latest work, contact him directly at: haroldberndt@gmail.comAMERICAN ANTIGRAVITY PAGE 16