Parliamentary Debates (Hansard) - New Zealand Parliament

16 May 2009 Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill 3631
process of how the Committee conducts itself. If the member wants to continue with
this, she will have to demonstrate that it is about order, not about substance. So far it has
all been about substance.
Hon DARREN HUGHES (Senior Whip—Labour): I raise a point of order, Mr
Chairperson. I do not think my colleague was attempting to get into a debating matter; it
is a matter of order of process in terms of what the Minister has advised the Committee
of. We are seeking to find out whether the Minister is in a position to be able to supply
us with a report or maybe a briefing from the officials about this issue of paid parental
leave, because the employment relationship has changed, and we need to make sure we
can get the information from the Minister, because the part has been dealt with.
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker): Thank you. If the member wishes to
have a briefing from officials, then I am quite sure the Minister would welcome the
member approaching the Minister and having access to the officials. That is entirely
appropriate, and it is what normally happens, but it is not necessarily a matter of order.
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South): I raise a point of order, Mr
Chairperson. I thank you for your advice in that particular area, but this is very serious,
because it is my understanding that we will come up to a clause relatively soon that
indicates that this amendment binds the Crown. It would be good if the Minister could
supply to the Committee a written opinion on that particular area as to whether this
amendment, in binding the Crown, overrides the Parental Leave and Employment
Protection Act.
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker): I say to the member that I have just
made the point that that is an issue of substance; it is not an issue of order. If the
member wants to approach the Minister to get a written opinion from him, he is more
than welcome to do that; this does not take up the time of the Committee. We want
points of order to be on matters of order, not matters of process.
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South): I raise a point of order, Mr
Chairperson. In the past, Chairs and Speakers have had reasonable latitude around
points of order where there is a genuine attempt, as there is in this case, to avoid
disorder. I am sure that if what has been indicated is the case, this has the potential to
lead to gross disorder during the week. I am attempting to help you to avoid that.
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker): Thank you. What I think I will also do
is get the maintenance staff to check the member’s chair. It seems that there is
something wrong with it in that the member does not seem to be able to stay in his seat
for very long! I say to him that to imply that previous Chairs have done something quite
differently is saying that I am not handling the job right. I am sure the member did not
want to imply that that is the case. But I say to the member that my experience of being
the Minister in the chair is that where members want information from the Minister and
from officials, they approach the Minister directly, and the Minister makes the
information available via the advisers he or she has in the Chamber. Points of order are
to be about order, not about process.
HEKIA PARATA (National): I move, That the question be now put.
A party vote was called for on the question, That the motion be agreed to.
Ayes 63
New Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5.
Noes 51
New Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 6; Māori Party 3.
Motion agreed to.