Narcotics research, rehabilitation, and treatment. Hearings, Ninety ...
Narcotics research, rehabilitation, and treatment. Hearings, Ninety ... Narcotics research, rehabilitation, and treatment. Hearings, Ninety ...
374the purchase of Avitnesses—I suspect what the gentleman meant wasany expenses involved.Mr. Murphy. I meant to say "informants." I wish to correct therecord.Mr. Steiger. Thank you.Chairman Pepper. Mr. Keating ?I^Ir. Keating. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.Mr. Ingersoll, earlier you indicated that the people who sell heroingo to those who have already been using marihuana. I may not havequoted you accuratel}^, but I got the distinction—they seem to be thebest source of potential heroin users. Is that correct ?Ingersoll. No. That isn't what I meant, Mr. Keating. What IjSIr.was describing was an environment where marihuana had been widelyused with little interference, few sanctions. The point is that this isan environment of people who are highly susceptible to drug abuse.There is a reputation of susceptibility to drug use that Americans aregetting around the world. "\^nierever our young people go, their accessibilityto illicit drugs is not only guaranteed but they are helped toget to them by the traffickers.a tolerance for the use orWhat I am saying is that when there isthe abuse of one drug such as marihuana, and it is widely known, thenthere are people who deal in other drugs who are going to try toexploit the market, and the market is there. This is a national problem,not just one of Vietnam.Mr. Keating. All right. Well, that is the point I was trying to makeand I didn't say it as well as you.Now, would that hold true in the United States, too ?Mr. Ingersoll. I am satisfied that it not only will hold true, but ithas held true.Mr. Iveating. So tliat where there is an environment of the use ofsome drug, including marihuana, it provides an area that is susceptibletoMr. Ingersoll. I think it is very obvious from our experience duringthe last 10 years that people—even the use of marihuana has expandedtremendously, explosively. We are all bothered and debating whetherwe should legalize it, or not. There is nobody who can make an unqualifiedscientific judgment as to the harm or the lack of harm thatattends marihuana consumption. And while we are in this state of fluxand indecision, what is happening? People are not just using marihuana.Over the last 5 or 6 years they have gone to hashish, the resinof the cannabis plant that some people say is 5 to 10 times stronger perunit than the marihuana that was previously used. We have seen atremendous increase, as the chairman and others have pointed out, inthe use of heroin. Heroin was once confined to specifically identifiablesegments of our society. Now it is everj'whei-e. We have seen the increasedabuse of other drugs such as LSD. We have seen the increasedabuse of stinmlants and the depressants, and wo have a society of drugabusers here. And every illicit drug entrepreneur around the worldhas tried to exploit this.Mr. Keating. That is precisely tlie point I am trying to make. Andthose, if I could extend what you are saying, who then toleratethe use of marihuana are creating, in effect, a greater problem in drugabuse in this country.
375Mr. Ingersoll. I think so, because marihuana is an agent of drugabuse.Mr. Keating. Do you have any idea how long we tolerated the useamong the members of the armed services in South Vietnam—^^prior togetting to this point, as you indicated, 15 months ago—of the use ofwhite powder heroin ? I don't have to know precisely, butMr. Ingersoll. My first trip to Vietnam was in 1968, the fall of1968, and the use of marihuana was widespread at that time.Mr. Keating. And was this tolerated by the armed services for toolong and to too great an extent which led to the use of heroin or builtup the enviromnent in which heroin then became part of the problem ?jNIr. Ingersoll. Mr. Keating, I don't want to be pvit in the positionof using hindsight as to the military problems, and I am not going tosit here condemning the way things were done in the military. Itis obvious that the military had many other problems in Vietnam inaddition to this.But I do think, on the basis of hindsight, that more direct andmore effective action might have been taken against marihuana whenit was just a small problem. Marihuana was not a problem among theVietnamese ; the American troops provided the market for marihuana.Had it been dealt with forthrightly at the beginning, perhapswe could liave avoided the difficulties we are having today.Mr. Keating. I agree that it is easy to have hindsight in these mattersand what is past is past, except we have to build for the futureon what has transpired before, and the fact is that we ignored theproblem for too long and didn't understand what potential was createdby the use of marihuana in these areas.I think that sums it up really.Now, especially in an area where there is some control exercised andcapable of being exercised over the men in the service and in SouthVietnam, the Army can control its men to a large extent and whatcomes in and out of camps.I would like to move on, if I can, to another area. Enough has beensaid, I think, regarding the pressure on these governments.T\niat concerns me is the feeling of sensitivity toward the feelings ofsome of these countries. I have been placed in two situations recentlywhere I have asked why our country has not taken a public positionwith respect to Turkey and with respect to some of these other countries,why we are so concerned that we can't take a public position ontheir exercising greater restriction over the illicit flow of drugs withinTurkey. And all I get is a, well, we can't do that. We have to be concernedabout their feelings.They say we will try and work in other channels. But I thinJc theprogress that we have made in areas like Turkey has not been sufficient,and this is—I think you have done an excellent job here todayand I think you have done an excellent job in your Department anddon't for 1 minute consider this a criticism of you—but I think the policystatement of our country" should be that Turkey is a great sourceof supply and condemn them for it.Estimates will run anywhere from 50 to 80 percent, and T agree withyou it is difficult to pinpoint it. But it seems to me that if the UnitedNations is sensitive, if the State Department is sensitive under different
- Page 344 and 345: :332"Stomach cramps" were found to
- Page 346 and 347: 'i.We334'""^li'anTOanl^ETPPEiL That
- Page 348 and 349: :))))336would be deprived of any cl
- Page 350 and 351: 338less abuse liability than agents
- Page 353 and 354: NARCOTICS RESEARCH, REHABILITATION,
- Page 355 and 356: CONTENTSApril 26 1April 27 77April
- Page 357 and 358: :•vEXHIBIT NO. 4 (a) AND (b)Eddy,
- Page 359: :lovernor,vnEXHIBIT NO. 21 (a) and
- Page 362 and 363: 342have no desire to preempt the au
- Page 364 and 365: 344We hope these hearings will prov
- Page 366 and 367: 346tons in 1962 and to 155 tons in
- Page 368 and 369: 348SOUTHEAST ASIAAs you know also,
- Page 370 and 371: 350I would also point out as I did
- Page 372 and 373: 352their farmers who have been grow
- Page 374 and 375: 354told that much of the insurgency
- Page 376 and 377: 356Mr. IxGERSOLL. Well, again, Mr.
- Page 378 and 379: 358jority of the heroin problem in
- Page 380 and 381: 360years, but I have been frustrate
- Page 382 and 383: 362Mr, Steiger. If you were goin^ t
- Page 384 and 385: 364report marihuana among junior gr
- Page 386 and 387: 366And it seems to me tliat we Avou
- Page 388 and 389: ?368effectively, then maybe we will
- Page 390 and 391: 370improvement as far as the abilit
- Page 392 and 393: 372was there. Your visits probably
- Page 396 and 397: :376administrations to publicly say
- Page 398 and 399: 378Chairman Pepper. We will take a
- Page 400 and 401: 380Mr. Ingersoll. No. I don't recal
- Page 402 and 403: :382can fulfill the vow made by the
- Page 404 and 405: 384have to give you the same answer
- Page 406 and 407: 386Mr. Brasco. But that is another
- Page 408 and 409: 388Mr. Ingeksoll. Well, that is the
- Page 411 and 412: NARCOTICS RESEARCH, REHABILITATION,
- Page 413 and 414: -39,3,Dr. Edwards held a surgical f
- Page 415 and 416: 395of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs
- Page 417 and 418: 397Naloxone, recently approved for
- Page 419 and 420: 399for example, who might be abusin
- Page 421 and 422: 401Now, because of our attention ha
- Page 423 and 424: 403and this is only for the investi
- Page 425 and 426: 405effects this drug will produce i
- Page 427 and 428: 407Now, if it is not used intravene
- Page 429 and 430: 409Mr. Wiggins. Dr. Jennings, does
- Page 431 and 432: 411Penicillin is good for pneumonia
- Page 433 and 434: 413Mr. R ANGEL. But from the studie
- Page 435 and 436: 415Dr. Gardner. Again, we don't hav
- Page 437 and 438: 417Dr. Edwards. I suspect it at lea
- Page 439 and 440: 419On the other hand, if serious si
- Page 441 and 442: 421of the best known programs. Alth
- Page 443 and 444: 423Medical Association, American Ps
375Mr. Ingersoll. I think so, because marihuana is an agent of drugabuse.Mr. Keating. Do you have any idea how long we tolerated the useamong the members of the armed services in South Vietnam—^^prior togetting to this point, as you indicated, 15 months ago—of the use ofwhite powder heroin ? I don't have to know precisely, butMr. Ingersoll. My first trip to Vietnam was in 1968, the fall of1968, <strong>and</strong> the use of marihuana was widespread at that time.Mr. Keating. And was this tolerated by the armed services for toolong <strong>and</strong> to too great an extent which led to the use of heroin or builtup the enviromnent in which heroin then became part of the problem ?jNIr. Ingersoll. Mr. Keating, I don't want to be pvit in the positionof using hindsight as to the military problems, <strong>and</strong> I am not going tosit here condemning the way things were done in the military. Itis obvious that the military had many other problems in Vietnam inaddition to this.But I do think, on the basis of hindsight, that more direct <strong>and</strong>more effective action might have been taken against marihuana whenit was just a small problem. Marihuana was not a problem among theVietnamese ; the American troops provided the market for marihuana.Had it been dealt with forthrightly at the beginning, perhapswe could liave avoided the difficulties we are having today.Mr. Keating. I agree that it is easy to have hindsight in these matters<strong>and</strong> what is past is past, except we have to build for the futureon what has transpired before, <strong>and</strong> the fact is that we ignored theproblem for too long <strong>and</strong> didn't underst<strong>and</strong> what potential was createdby the use of marihuana in these areas.I think that sums it up really.Now, especially in an area where there is some control exercised <strong>and</strong>capable of being exercised over the men in the service <strong>and</strong> in SouthVietnam, the Army can control its men to a large extent <strong>and</strong> whatcomes in <strong>and</strong> out of camps.I would like to move on, if I can, to another area. Enough has beensaid, I think, regarding the pressure on these governments.T\niat concerns me is the feeling of sensitivity toward the feelings ofsome of these countries. I have been placed in two situations recentlywhere I have asked why our country has not taken a public positionwith respect to Turkey <strong>and</strong> with respect to some of these other countries,why we are so concerned that we can't take a public position ontheir exercising greater restriction over the illicit flow of drugs withinTurkey. And all I get is a, well, we can't do that. We have to be concernedabout their feelings.They say we will try <strong>and</strong> work in other channels. But I thinJc theprogress that we have made in areas like Turkey has not been sufficient,<strong>and</strong> this is—I think you have done an excellent job here today<strong>and</strong> I think you have done an excellent job in your Department <strong>and</strong>don't for 1 minute consider this a criticism of you—but I think the policystatement of our country" should be that Turkey is a great sourceof supply <strong>and</strong> condemn them for it.Estimates will run anywhere from 50 to 80 percent, <strong>and</strong> T agree withyou it is difficult to pinpoint it. But it seems to me that if the UnitedNations is sensitive, if the State Department is sensitive under different
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