Narcotics research, rehabilitation, and treatment. Hearings, Ninety ...
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Narcotics research, rehabilitation, and treatment. Hearings, Ninety ...

Narcotics research, rehabilitation, and treatment. Hearings, Ninety ... Narcotics research, rehabilitation, and treatment. Hearings, Ninety ...

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372was there. Your visits probably stimulated a good deal of activity,themselves.As far as Scag Alley is concerned, oiir military is placing more andmore locations where heroin is available off limits, and I understandthat there was a sweep through Scag Alley about a week or 10 daysago.Chairman Pepper. If my colleague will yield, I think he would beinterested to know how many people have been shot or put in prisonwho have been engaged in this traffic.Mr. Mtjrphy. Well, as John indicated before, Mr. Chairman, Iknow they did arrest a South Vietnamese legislator and I think he isstill in jail.Mr. Ingersoll. Yes. He is still in custody.Mr. Murphy. But as far as shooting people, I don't think they havedone too much. They would have to talk to the Shah of Iran. He isa specialist in that.Chairman Pepper. There are other ways to get rid of them.Mr. Murphy. Did they ever give you any figures on the deaths dueto overdoses of heroin ?Mr. Ingersoll. They gave me two sets of figures, Mr. Murphy.J. Onewas based on autopsy proven deaths and the other was clinical findings.Mr. Murphy. Do you have those with you ?Mr. Ingersoll. I don't have them with me and I can't call them upat this moment.Mr. Murphy. Now, getting over to Turkey now, you mentionedin your question by one of my colleagues here that $3 million havebeen given to Turkey. This subject was brought up on my visit to Turkey,and unfortunately all those supplies, meaning shortwave radiosand jeeps and the rest of that, stood on the dock for over a year andhave not been put into use because of some type of customs which preventedanyone in Turkey from knowing who had the responsibility topay.So I am wondering if this is an example of the type of aid andwhether you have any suggestions as to how we could bypass some ofthis redtape in these countries.I am not blaming this administration. But I am wonderinsf if youhave any ideas. If we give these people shortwave radios, give themthe tools with which to fight this. The tools did not trickle down tothe people who need them, and until this is so, all the aid in the worldis not going to do us any good.INIr. Ingersoll. I don't know who told you that stuff was still sittingon the dock, but it is not. There was a long delay because, for reasonsI can't explain, one part of the government had to pay the customs dutyon the equipment that was coming in, and nobody had an appropriationor authorization to pay this.Well, eventually the transfer of funds occurred and the equipmentwas cleared.Now, this happened twice. The problem has been resolved and equipmentthat is going over there now or that has gone over in the pastfew months has cleared quickly. But I don't think that any of it hadstayed on as long as a year. It had stayed on for 3, 4, 5 months, whichwas more than annoying to us and we made our annoyance known.

373Mr. Murphy. John, one problem you and I discussed before yourtrip was the fact that ex-GI's return to Bangkok and set themselvesup in this opium and heroin trade. One fellow in particular owns theFive Star Bar and Louufre. I was wondering, do you have anj^ suggestionsas to how we would eradicate that problem ? Have you madeany to the President, or are any under consideration ?Mr. Ingersoll. We had that man in custody in the United Statesabout a year ago but our agents made a fatal legal error and his casewas dismissed. The problem of ex-servicemen is not only in Bangkokbut also in Okinawa, and we are increasing our investigations thereand intensifying our activities there, too.Under the new Controlled Substances Act we have a new deviceavailable to us which will permit us to prosecute any person whomanufactures for or causes distribution to the United States while ina foreign area when he appears in the United States.We intend to make use of that device for these people when theycome back into the United States or when they are subject to extradition.In the meantime, hopefull3/ we can get the Thai police to prosecutefor violations that are occurring in Thailand.Mr. Murphy. In my trip, Mr. Ingersoll, I talked to a lot of yourmen, and by the way, before the committee, I would like to complimentMr. Ingersoll and his men that he has stationed around the world.They, in my opinion, do a magnificent job.One of the problems that I discussed with some of your men, Mr.Ingersoll, was this problem of the availability of funds to make purchaseson the market, and the use of these funds to buy witnesses andinformation.One particular problem was that you had to go to the embassies withthe general consuls around, and if you needed a large amount ofmoney, this need created a lot of redtape. There was also the fact thatit exposed the particular arrest or buy that they were going to beinvolved in and chances of leakage were very great.Do you have any recommendations you would like to have Congressconsider in the form of a special fund, covert fund, that youcould use ?Mr. IxGERsoLL. I prefer not to discuss that in an open session, if youdon't mind, Mr. Murph3^Mr. Murphy. I mean just in general terms. I don't mean in specificterms.Mr. Ingersoll. We have investigative funds. Congress has consistently,over the past 2 years, increased these funds significantly. Ithink we can use more. I am at a point now where I can determine howto use these funds intelligently. I have to admit that 2 years ago, oreven a year ago, I wasn't as certain about how to use a large amountof funds intelligently, and I saw no justification to ask the Congressfor vast amounts of money when I didn't know how I was going tospend it.Now I think I am at the point where I can use more money and useit effectively.Mr. Murphy. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.Mr. Steiger. Mr. Chairman, excuse me, if the gentleman will yield.I think the record ought to reflect that the gentleman's comment as to

372was there. Your visits probably stimulated a good deal of activity,themselves.As far as Scag Alley is concerned, oiir military is placing more <strong>and</strong>more locations where heroin is available off limits, <strong>and</strong> I underst<strong>and</strong>that there was a sweep through Scag Alley about a week or 10 daysago.Chairman Pepper. If my colleague will yield, I think he would beinterested to know how many people have been shot or put in prisonwho have been engaged in this traffic.Mr. Mtjrphy. Well, as John indicated before, Mr. Chairman, Iknow they did arrest a South Vietnamese legislator <strong>and</strong> I think he isstill in jail.Mr. Ingersoll. Yes. He is still in custody.Mr. Murphy. But as far as shooting people, I don't think they havedone too much. They would have to talk to the Shah of Iran. He isa specialist in that.Chairman Pepper. There are other ways to get rid of them.Mr. Murphy. Did they ever give you any figures on the deaths dueto overdoses of heroin ?Mr. Ingersoll. They gave me two sets of figures, Mr. Murphy.J. Onewas based on autopsy proven deaths <strong>and</strong> the other was clinical findings.Mr. Murphy. Do you have those with you ?Mr. Ingersoll. I don't have them with me <strong>and</strong> I can't call them upat this moment.Mr. Murphy. Now, getting over to Turkey now, you mentionedin your question by one of my colleagues here that $3 million havebeen given to Turkey. This subject was brought up on my visit to Turkey,<strong>and</strong> unfortunately all those supplies, meaning shortwave radios<strong>and</strong> jeeps <strong>and</strong> the rest of that, stood on the dock for over a year <strong>and</strong>have not been put into use because of some type of customs which preventedanyone in Turkey from knowing who had the responsibility topay.So I am wondering if this is an example of the type of aid <strong>and</strong>whether you have any suggestions as to how we could bypass some ofthis redtape in these countries.I am not blaming this administration. But I am wonderinsf if youhave any ideas. If we give these people shortwave radios, give themthe tools with which to fight this. The tools did not trickle down tothe people who need them, <strong>and</strong> until this is so, all the aid in the worldis not going to do us any good.INIr. Ingersoll. I don't know who told you that stuff was still sittingon the dock, but it is not. There was a long delay because, for reasonsI can't explain, one part of the government had to pay the customs dutyon the equipment that was coming in, <strong>and</strong> nobody had an appropriationor authorization to pay this.Well, eventually the transfer of funds occurred <strong>and</strong> the equipmentwas cleared.Now, this happened twice. The problem has been resolved <strong>and</strong> equipmentthat is going over there now or that has gone over in the pastfew months has cleared quickly. But I don't think that any of it hadstayed on as long as a year. It had stayed on for 3, 4, 5 months, whichwas more than annoying to us <strong>and</strong> we made our annoyance known.

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