1 Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009 SSS-AKG/11.00/1A ...

1Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009SSS-AKG/11.00/1AMR. CHAIRMAN: Q. No. 261.Is there a virus?The House met at eleven of the clock,MR. CHAIRMAN in the Chair....(Q. Nos. 261 and 262 - Hon. Members absent)(Q. Nos. 263 and 264 - Hon. Members absent)DR. (SHRIMATI) NAJMA A. HEPTULLA: Sir, Lok Sabha virus has comehere.MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, that is what I thought.SHRI M. VENKAIAH NAIDU: Sir, yesterday the hon. Chair had made acomment to bring a change in the rules. I want to request you, goingby this, there is a very wrong message going across the country. At theearliest, you please see to it that the rule is amended. The entire Housewill stand by the Chairman.MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much.(Q. Nos. 265 and 266 - Hon. Members absent)

3Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009












16Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009-SSS/NBR-PSV/1B/11.05.Q.NO. 267( CONTD.)SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI: I don't think there is any issue involved. Eventhe international bodies have always emphasize ×Ûú ×•ÖÃÖê ³Öß Ûãú”û Æãü†Ö Æîü,ˆÃÖÛúÖê stigma ®ÖÆüà ÆüÖê®ÖÖ “ÖÖ×Æü‹… ˆÃÖê ¯Öæ¸üÖ human right protection ×´Ö»Ö®Öß “ÖÖ×Æü‹…ˆ®ÖÛúÖê ³Öß dignity Ûêú ÃÖÖ£Ö •Öß®Öê ÛúÖ ¯Öæ¸üÖ †×¬ÖÛúÖ¸ü Æîü… ‡ÃÖÛêú ×»Ö‹ Æü´Ö ‡ÃÖ ²ÖÖŸÖ ÛúÖê ÝÖÖê¯Ö®ÖßμÖ¸üÜÖëÝÖê…ÁÖß ÃÖ³ÖÖ¯Ö×ŸÖ: ¤æüÃÖ¸üÖ ÃÖ¾ÖÖ»Ö ¯Öæ×”û‹…ÁÖß †¾ÖŸÖÖ¸ü ØÃÖÆü Ûú¸üß´Ö¯Öã¸üß: ´ÖÆüÖê¤üμÖ, ´Öï ¤æüÃÖ¸üÖ supplementary Ûú¸ü ¸üÆüÖ ÆæÑü… ‡ÃÖ ²ÖÖŸÖ ¯Ö¸ü´Öê¸üÖ ×±ú¸ü ÃÖê μÖÆü ÛúÆü®ÖÖ Æîü, I do agree, ×Ûú Æü´Öë ˆ®ÖÛêú ÃÖÖ£Ö safety ¸üÜÖ®Öß “ÖÖ×Æü‹ †Öî¸üÆü´Öë ˆ®ÖÛúÖ social status ²Ö®ÖÖ Ûú¸ü ¸üÜÖ®ÖÖ “ÖÖ×Æü‹, »Öê×Ûú®Ö ‡ÃÖÛêú ÛúÖ¸üÞÖ •ÖÖê ®ÖãÛúÃÖÖ®Ö ÆüÖê¸üÆüÖ Æîü, ˆÃÖÛêú ‰ú¯Ö¸ü ÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸ü ÛúÖê •Öºþ¸ü ÃÖÖê“Ö®ÖÖ “ÖÖ×Æü‹, ®ÖÆüà ŸÖÖê †Ö®Öê ¾ÖÖ»Öê ÃÖ´ÖμÖ ´Öë μÖÆü ‹Ûú²Ö›ÍüÖ challenge ÆüÖê •ÖÖ‹ÝÖÖ…ÃÖ¸ü, ´Öê¸üÖ ¤æüÃÖ¸üÖ supplementary μÖÆü Æîü ×Ûú Æü´Ö μÖÆü •ÖÖ®Ö®ÖÖ “ÖÖÆüŸÖê Æïü ×Ûú †ÝÖ¸üμÖÆü HIV positive »ÖÖêÝÖÖë Ûêú ®ÖÖ´Ö †³Öß declare Ûú¸ü®ÖÖ ®ÖÆüà “ÖÖÆüŸÖê ŸÖÖê ŒμÖÖ ÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸ü μÖÆü¯ÖÏÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö Ûú¸ü®Öê ÛúÖ ÛúÖê‡Ô ×¾Ö“ÖÖ¸ü Ûú¸êüÝÖß ×Ûú ¾ÖÆü marriage ÃÖê ¯ÖÆü»Öê HIV positive ÛúÖ ÛúÖê‡ÔêüÃü compulsory ²Ö®ÖÖ‹? ŒμÖÖë×Ûú μÖÆü ²ÖÆãüŸÖ ÃÖÓ•Öß¤üÝÖß ÛúÖ ×¾ÖÂÖμÖ Æîü, ‡ÃÖÛúÖê •μÖÖ¤üÖ ´Ö•ÖÖÛú´Öë »Öê®Öê Ûúß •Öºþ¸üŸÖ ®ÖÆüßÓ Æîü… Æü´Ö μÖÆü ‡ÃÖ×»Ö‹ ÛúÆü ¸üÆêü Æïü ×Ûú •ÖÖê ²Ö““Öê ‹›ËüÃÖ-¯Öß×›ÍüŸÖ ¯Öî¤üÖÆüÖëÝÖê, ˆ®ÖÛêú ³Ö×¾ÖÂμÖ Ûêú ×»Ö‹ ÛúÖî®Ö ×•Ö´´Öê¾ÖÖ¸ü Æîü? ŸÖÖê ŒμÖÖ ‡ÃÖÛêú ‰ú¯Ö¸ü ÛúÖê‡Ô ®Öß×ŸÖ ²Ö®ÖÖ®Öê ÛúÖ μÖÖ‡ÃÖÛêú ‰ú¯Ö¸ü ÛúÖê‡Ô ÛúÖ®Öæ®Ö »ÖÖ®Öê ÛúÖ μÖÖ ‡ÃÖ ¯Ö¸ü ÛúÖê‡Ô ×¾Ö“ÖÖ¸ü Ûú¸ü®Öê ÛúÖ ÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸ü Ûêú ¯ÖÖÃÖ ÛúÖê‡Ôproposal Æîü? Æü´Ö μÖÆü ÛúÆü®ÖÖ “ÖÖÆëüÝÖê ×Ûú ÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸ü ÛúÖê μÖÆü Ûú¸ü®ÖÖ “ÖÖ×Æü‹…ÁÖß ÃÖ³ÖÖ¯Ö×ŸÖ: †Ö¯Ö®Öê ÃÖ¾ÖÖ»Ö ¯Öæ”û ×»ÖμÖÖ, thank you.ÁÖß ×¤ü®Öê¿Ö ×¡Ö¾Öê¤üßü: ÃÖ¸ü, μÖÆü ‹Ûú ÃÖÖê“Ö •Öºþ¸ü Æîü, ´ÖÝÖ¸ü ‡ÃÖÛêú ×»Ö‹ ‹Ûú ¾μÖÖ¯ÖÛú discussionÆüÖê®ÖÖ “ÖÖ×Æü‹… ‡ÃÖ ¯Ö¸ü ¯ÖÖÙ»ÖμÖÖ´Öëü ´Öë †Öî¸ü ¯ÖÖÙ»ÖμÖÖ´Öëü Ûêú ²ÖÖÆü¸ ³Öß “Ö“ÖÖÔ ÆüÖê®Öß “ÖÖ×Æü‹ü, ˆÃÖÛêú²ÖÖ¤ü Æüß ÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸ü Ûãú”û ÃÖÖê“Ö ÃÖÛúŸÖß Æîü… ×±ú»ÖÆüÖ»Ö ÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸ü Ûêú ¯ÖÖÃÖ ‹êÃÖÖ ÛúÖê‡Ô ¯ÖÏÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö ®ÖÆüà Æîü…

17Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009Q.NO. 267( CONTD.)SHRI JESUDASU SEELAM: Sir, the hon. Minister has said thatconfidentiality has to be maintained and has also mentioned about thehuman rights. All the details are supposed to be included in the Actthat the Government is going to bring before the House. I would like toknow from the hon. Minister what is the status of the HIV/AIDS Bill. It ispending for a long-time. Would the hon. Minister throw some light onthat? Can he fix up some specific timeframe? We have been hearingabout this Bill for a long-time. We would like to know about thesedetails.And, Sir, I would like to thank the hon. Minister of Health forcoming and participating on the World AIDS Day organised by theParliamentary Forum on HIV/AIDS. I wish to know the status of the Billwith timeframe.SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI: Sir, it is a process. All these things, first, areweighed by the Legal Department and then it goes to the Cabinet. So,at this point of time, it is not possible to pinpoint a timeframe. But, weare, certainly, aware of these things and it is a continuous process ofdiscussions.SHRI JESUDASU SEELAM: Sir, six years have already been lapsed.MR. CHAIRMAN: That is all right.SHRI H.K. DUA: Sir, I would like to know from the hon. Minister whetherinstances at hospitals where doctors refused to give even first aid toHIV/AIDS patients have come to his notice. If there are, how many suchinstances in the country have come to his notice?

18Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009Q.NO. 267( CONTD.)SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI: Sir, it is a criminal offence. We are all awarethat this is unacceptable. As far as instances are concerned, I do nothave readymade figures at the moment. But, I will be very happy toprovide the same to the hon. Member. The Question is on theexpenditure.›üÖò0(ÁÖß´ÖŸÖß) ®Ö•Ö´ÖÖ ‹0 Æêü¯ÖŸÖã»»ÖÖ: ÃÖ¸ü, ŒμÖæ²ÖÖ ‹Ûú ‹êÃÖß country Æîü, •ÖÆüÖÑ HIV/AIDS ¯Ö¸üŸÖÛú¸üß²Ö®Ö ¯Öæ¸üß ŸÖ¸üÆü ÃÖê ÛúÖ²Öæ ¯ÖÖ ×»ÖμÖÖ ÝÖμÖÖ Æîü… ŸÖß®Ö-“ÖÖ¸ü ÃÖÖ»Ö ¯ÖÆü»Öê ‹Ûú conference Ûêú×ÃÖ»Ö×ÃÖ»Öê ´Öë ´Öê¸üÖ ¾ÖÆüÖÑ •ÖÖ®ÖÖ Æãü†Ö £ÖÖ… ›üÖòŒü¸ü ÃÖê ²ÖÖŸÖ Ûú¸ü®Öê Ûêú ²ÖÖ¤ü Æü´Öë ¯ÖŸÖÖ »ÖÝÖÖ ×Ûú ¾ÖÆüÖÑ¯Ö¸ü ×ÝÖ®ÖŸÖß Ûêú ŸÖß®Ö cases £Öê… ×ÛúÃÖ ŸÖ¸üßÛêú ÃÖê ²Ö““ÖÖë ÛúÖê μÖÆü disease transmit ®ÖÆüà ÆüÖê,they have been able to find a way out. So, will the Governmentconsider either going there or discussing with any of those people inCuba to control HIV/AIDS or transfer of HIV/AIDS from pregnant womento children?SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI: Sir, I am grateful to the hon. Member.Certainly, we will take all these points in a positive manner. Whatever isgoing to be effective in controlling this dreadful disease, we certainlytake notice and whatever is required to be done, we will, certainly, do it.(Ends)(FOLLOWED BY PB "1c")





23Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009PB-SCH/1c/11.10Q. NO. 268DR. E.M. SUDARSANA NATCHIAPPAN: Sir, I would like to knowwhether the Government of India is following any international standardsof security audit by which our security system is in tact in the context ofthe terrorist attack in various positions.SHRI PRAFUL PATEL: Sir, I think, all of us are equally concerned aboutthe security as the rest of the world, and, therefore, we do follow thebest possible security measures. In fact, after the hijacking of ouraircraft, the entire security at all major airports has been handed over tothe CISF so that there are uniform standards which are applicable.Also, we have a Bureau of Civil Aviation Security which monitors securityat all airports across the country, and thus, try to adopt best practiceswhich are followed elsewhere. It is an on-going process. I cannot giveany specific details until asked for. But I can only assure the House thatover a period of time, our security systems have gone better. We havemore modernisation; we have more technological upgradation also,including better manpower training at the airports.However, in our context, security at airports is of prime concern,and with the increasing activity which we witness in many of our citiesand across the country, I think, we need to be even more vigilant; andwe are taking all possible measures in our context.DR. E.M. SUDARSANA NATCHIAPPAN: Sir, for practical purposes, wefind that under the system, which is followed now, the CISF is nottreating the passengers with proper respect and honour. They aretreating everybody in a manner as if he is a terrorist. So, I would like to

24Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009Q.NO. 268( CONTD.)know how they can be trained in a proper way. Their manpower hasbeen increased but the security measures should be taken withoutharassing the passengers. So, what new methods are being followed bythe system to find out the real culprits and not harassing the regularpassengers?SHRI PRAFUL PATEL: Sir, if there is any specific instance which thehon. Member would like to point out, I will be happy to get it corrected.But, to say in general that in our security systems all passengers arebeing harassed at the airports would be unfair to the security personnelalso for the simple reason that we have all travelled across manycountries in the world, and, I think, our system is quite relatively userand passenger friendly. In fact, it is not as cumbersome as in manyother countries. So, I do not wish to say in generality that it is not in linewith the best practices. However, if there is any area for improvement,if you have any suggestions or if you have come across any illtreatment,please bring it our notice. We will be happy to try to get itcorrected.SHRI RAJIV PRATAP RUDY: Sir, on earlier occasions also and theMinister is also aware, the Regulator as far as airport security isconcerned, is the Bureau of Civil Aviation Safety which is a smallorganisation which looks after the overall security of the airports. Butthe operational level and the field level is controlled by the CISF whichwas inducted during the NDA regime. Now, the question here is thatthe CISF, the controlling authority of the CISF, is the Ministry of Home. Itis not responsible. Even if the Minister wants to take an action against

25Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009Q.NO. 268( CONTD.)a constable of the CISF, he doesn't have the authority for that. So,there is a complete dichotomy in the situation where the Civil AviationMinister of the Ministry has no control on the CISF. I have nothing tosay about the performance of the CISF; it is doing well. But if theMinister is accountable for the action of CISF, what is the authority ofthe Minister on that organisation because they report to the HomeMinistry and the Home Secretary?1d/11.15/skc(Contd. by 1d/SKC)SHRI RAJIV PRATAP RUDY (Contd.): And there is a very loosecoordination, because there is a regulator called COSCA who heads thisorganisation in the Civil Aviation Ministry. The entire field force is that ofthe CISF, which has nothing to do. I would just like to ask the Ministerwhether he is thinking of devising, or requesting the Government, tocreate a stronger channel of control as far as the airport security andCISF are concerned, which is related to his Ministry. Or, is the Ministerthinking of setting up a separate force, or co-opting force from the CISFto be responsible to the Civil Aviation Department? Has the Ministersomething in mind about this?SHRI PRAFUL PATEL: Well, technically you are right that CISF is in thedomain of the Home Ministry. However, I do not think it is completely atarm's length from the Civil Aviation Ministry. After all, the BCAS is incharge of overall security. CISF also reports to the...SHRI RAJIV PRATAP RUDY: No, it does not report...

26Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009Q.NO. 268( CONTD.)SHRI PRAFUL PATEL: I said, technically you may be right but it doesnot work like that. After all, there is an interface. It is not as if the CISFwould not listen to the suggestions or any issues which the Civil AviationMinistry or the BCAS may raise. So, there is a dialogue; there is aninterface. Technically speaking, that is true, but overall security of theairport cannot be in isolation. After all, it is part of a city and it is part ofour country. Therefore, the Home Ministry also has to look after theother facets of security. Anything outside the airport precincts falls in thedomain of the local police and, therefore, the Home Ministry and theCivil Aviation Ministry have to work together.SHRI ARUN JAITLEY: Sir, most countries in the world do not have anyexempted categories based on a VIP culture where they are exemptedfrom security frisking. We are one of the few countries in the worldwhich has it. Therefore, the security personnel at the security checks arealways faced with a Hobson's choice as to whom to frisk and whom notto frisk. Is the Minister willing to consider a regime where everybody issubjected to the same security treatment, irrespective of any specialpreferred status of individuals?SHRI PRAFUL PATEL: Well, I think this decision has to be taken byeverybody including the Members of Parliament. I recall, in this veryHouse, there was an incident where the security of a very importantperson became such a big issue that all...(Interruptions)...SHRI S.S. AHLUWALIA: No Member of Parliament can seek thisimmunity.

27Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009Q.NO. 268( CONTD.)SHRI PRAFUL PATEL: Please, I am not trying to defend anybody. I amonly trying to say that these are decisions that all of us, in our collectivewisdom, have to take. I follow a protocol laid down as per the rules ofbusiness, and there are certain categories which are exempt, and I onlyfollow what has been given to me. I do not devise categories. OurMinistry is only following the protocol which has been spelt out. If thereis any change to be made, I think it would involve a larger discussion.SHRI BALBIR PUNJ: Protocol spelt out by whom?SHRI PRAFUL PATEL: As far as I am concerned, I cannot say anythingon this because I am nobody to decide on my own whether the 'x'category or 'y' category of people should be exempted or not.SHRI BALBIR PUNJ: Mr. Chairman Sir, who sets these categories?MR. CHAIRMAN: Please. I think, the procedure is known.SHRI BALBIR PUNJ: No, Sir. It is not known. We would like the hon.Minister to educate us on that.SHRI S.S. AHLUWALIA: The Minister said that he got this exercise inlegacy. (Interruptions)MR. CHAIRMAN: Please.SHRI PRAFUL PATEL: I hope, at least, most of you know that there isan order of precedence which has been set out. It is not decided by theMinistry of Civil Aviation and that is notified...(Interruptions)...SHRI BALBIR PUNJ: You are speaking for the Government of India. It isdecided by the Government and you are speaking on behalf of theGovernment of India.

28Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009Q.NO. 268( CONTD.)SHRI PRAFUL PATEL: I mean to say that it is an order of precedencewhich is notified.SHRI RAJIV PRATAP RUDY: We all know what you are saying and thequestion is very clear to you. You know what we are asking.(Interruptions)MR. CHAIRMAN: Shri Naik.SHRI SHANTARAM LAXMAN NAIK: Sir, recently, there were twounpleasant incidents where the former President of India, Shri AbdulKalam, and veteran actor, Shri Shahrukh Khan, were frisked by officialsof a foreign airlines at one of their airports. Shri Abdul Kalam andveteran actor, Shri Shahrukh Khan, were frisked and humiliated. A lot ofnoise about the incident was raised even in the House. The Minister hadassured that appropriate measures would be taken in this regard. Iwould like to know from the Minister about the follow-up action he hastaken after former President, Shri Abdul Kalam, and actor ShahrukhKhan were frisked and humiliated.SHRI PRAFUL PATEL: Sir, these are all security audits. I can only saythat in the case of the former President, we had taken up this issue andI think, after an apology has been tendered, that matter has been put torest. I do not think we should rake up these issues again and again.MR. CHAIRMAN: Question No. 269.(Followed by hk/1e)

HK/1e/11.2029Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009Q.NO. 268( CONTD.)SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: Sir, I know that I am late. But kindly giveme a chance.MR. CHAIRMAN: I am afraid you were not here.SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: Kindly give me a chance.MR. CHAIRMAN: I would like to, but I can't.SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: It is still going on. Give me a chance thistime. One question only. I came before the question was over and mycolleague was already there. Give me a chance. I will quickly ask aquestion. ..(Interruptions).. Can I?MR. CHAIRMAN: It is all right. I give you one minute. Ask the relevantquestion.SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: Thank you, Sir. I will not take more time.I just want to know from the hon. Minister: Is it also a fact that audit byFAA is going on in the country? If it is going on for air-worthiness,whether he has details of such airlines and what corrective steps arebeing taken on that?SHRI PRAFUL PATEL: Sir, the question pertains to security audit byFAA. I have only answered that there is no security audit which isconducted by FAA. We are not under their jurisdiction for conductingsecurity audit. That is our view. We are to follow international bestpractices and norms. The question that you are trying to ask me isabout FAA audit of the procedures which are being followed by theDGCA. There is an IASA Certification which is required. It is anInternational Airworthiness Certification. The norm which is to be

30Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009Q.NO. 268( CONTD.)followed by most countries, that FAA audit for India has been completedand we have got an IASA Category-1 Certification which means that allour systems are in place according to the best practices prevalentanywhere else in the world.(Ends)





35Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009Q.No.269SHRI MOINUL HASSAN: Sir, power generation is one of the importantsectors so far as the infrastructure is concerned. As we know, Sir, inthe 11 th Plan power generation in this infrastructure sector was targetedat 78,000 MW. Sir, report comes that 11 th Plan is to be completed in2012 and only 50 per cent of the target is completed which is by thepublic sector generation companies. May I know from the hon. Ministeras to what is the present status of it? Is it possible that beforecompleting the 11 th Plan in 2012 full capacity or full targeted generationpower will be completed?SHRI PRANAB MUKHERJEE: Mr. Chairman, Sir, I am afraid it may notbe possible to reach the target of 78,000 MW's addition to the existingpower generation capacity. Though the Mid-Term Appraisal has notbeen finalised, but from the information which we are having, it appearsthat, of course, they have lowered the target from 78,000 MW to 62,000MW. We are trying to reach that target, but after the Mid-TermAppraisal of the Plan being completed, then it would be possible toarrive at the firm figure.SHRI MOINUL HASSAN: Sir, from the table which is supplied as ananswer I can see that the investment in gas infrastructure happens to bethe least though the inter-eastern region and also the major part of thesouthern region is starved of gas supply. Kindly let me know what theprogress of the Jagdishpur-Haldia Pipeline is which is aimed to connectthe eastern region with gas supply channel? I am asking this becausethis project was taken up before the 11 th Plan. Is there any possibility of

36Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009Q.NO. 269( CONTD.)completing this project in this Plan period so that eastern India, at least,can get gas?SHRI PRANAB MUKHERJEE: Sir, the question relates to the investmentin the infrastructures. But the question relating to specific projects andconducted by the particular Department or Ministry will have to beaddressed by ..(Interruptions)..SHRI MOINUL HASSAN: Sir, the Minister may know this...(Interruptions)..SHRI PRANAB MUKHERJEE: That is all right. But we have to put thenotice and they will have to prepare and answer the question. But thegeneral allocation in respects of the gas, as the hon. Member started byobserving that it is minimum, is least.(Contd. by 1f/KSK)KSK/11.25/1FSHRI PRANAB MUKHERJEE (CONTD): It is natural because regardingexploration work, we entered into the new Exploration Policy with theprivate sector - gas and oil - that if you strike it, you get it. You may tryto get it at 40 places, 50 places, 60 places, but when it actually strikes,then, you get it. Therefore, we do not spend substantially of our ownpublic sector resources for exploration. Exploration work is left to theprivate sector. And, thereafter, as per the New Exploration LicensingPolicy, the administrative Ministry - Petroleum and Natural Gas Ministry -conduct and thereafter, the Government enters into arrangements withthe private contractors and private sector. So far as the availability ofgas is concerned, experts are saying, but unless we strike and identify

37Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009Q.NO. 269( CONTD.)the zones and are in a position, after exploration, for going to theexploitation, it would be difficult to continue.SHRI SHYAMAL CHAKRABORTY: Sir, I would like to ask the hon.Finance Minister that you have a policy called 'Look East Policy'. It is avery good Policy. We appreciate it very much. But, for thedevelopment of the economy, infrastructure of ports is very muchimportant. What we are observing is that one of the major ports is ariverine port, that is, Kolkata-Haldia, but dredging is very muchinadequate. That is why, the Kolkata and Haldia port system is indistressed condition. So, the economic activity is coming down inEastern India, particularly in West Bengal. Why inadequate money hasbeen allocated for that?SHRI PRANAB MUKHERJEE: Mr. Chairman, Sir, this is also a specificquestion in respect to the Department of Shipping and Transport whoundertakes the job of dredging of different ports. My responsibility, asthe Finance Minister, is to provide money for investment in infrastructure.And, thereafter, infrastructure which is spread in large number ofadministrative Ministries, they ought to spend project wise, and thePlanning Commission makes allocations. Therefore, if you want toexpand the canvas of the question, it would be extremely difficult. I cangive the figure in respect of the allocation during the current Plan, thatis, the Eleventh Five Year Plan. In terms of percentage, port allocationis 4.28 per cent. In absolute terms, it is Rs.87,995 crores. That wouldbe the allocation for development of infrastructure facilities in ports

38Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009Q.NO. 269( CONTD.)during the Eleventh Plan starting from 2006-07 and coming to an end on31 st March, 2012.DR. T. SUBBARAMI REDDY: Sir, I would like to know about airports,which is also a very important sector. Though the hon. Finance Ministerdoes not deal directly, but I would like to know that why this sector'sshare in projected investment is only 1.51 per cent. The amount ishardly Rs.30,968 crores.Secondly, I would like to know about irrigation.MR. CHAIRMAN: Only one point please.DR. T. SUBBARAMI REDDY: Allocation for irrigation, includingwatersheds, is Rs.2,53,301 crores. Irrigation comes under CentralGovernment funds and State Government funds. I would like know thatfor irrigation, whether this amount of Rs.2,53,301 crores is exclusivelyinvested by the Government of India. So, what is the modality? Everyyear, what is the approximate investment that we can expect inirrigation?And, also, I want to know why such an insignificant investment isproposed in airports.SHRI PRANAB MUKHERJEE: Sir, the question was for the investmentduring the Eleventh Plan in the infrastructure sectors, and the Planinvestment consists of State-sector Plan and Centre-sector Plan.Therefore, this figure, which we are giving, that is, Rs.20,56,150 crores,the total investment, that is consisting of the Centre-sector investmentand the State-sector investment in the infrastructure. And, when youdistribute a hundred, when you talk of percentage, you cannot go

39Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009Q.NO. 269( CONTD.)beyond hundred, and if you give 32 per cent to power, then 15 per centto road, 12.5 per cent to other important sectors, naturally, for certainother sectors, in the kitty of percentage, it will come down.(continued by 1g - gsp)-KSK-GSP-VNK-11.30-1GSHRI PRANAB MUKHERJEE (CONTD.): Secondly, at the airports,substantial modernisation, expansion works and infrastructural activitiesare going on through the private sector routes.SHRI M. VENKAIAH NAIDU: Mr. Chairman, Sir, it is a very importantquestion. I would like to draw the attention of the hon. Finance Ministertowards increasing the targets fixed for investment in physicalinfrastructure, from five per cent of GDP to nine per cent of GDP. But,Sir, on the expenditure side, on the implementation side, according tothe answer given by the hon. Minister yesterday, we are lagging behind,for instance, in some projects, by 40 months, and, in some projects, by60 months. The cost overrun is also increasing by leaps and bounds.That being the case, what is the mechanism, what is the system thathas been evolved by the Ministry of Finance or the Prime Minister'sOffice -- we read something about it in the newspapers -- to see thatthey are regularly monitored and the targets are achieved. What is thesystem that has been adopted; what is the response so far; and, whatare the results so far?SHRI PRANAB MUKHERJEE: Sir, it is true that we are not so good andefficient in delivering, particularly, in implementing these projects.Particularly, from the conceptual stage to the implementation stage,

40Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009Q.NO. 269( CONTD.)there is a big gap. At the same time, with the establishment of theCabinet Committee on Infrastructure and regular monitoring through thePrime Minister's Office in that Cabinet Committee, which is chaired bythe Prime Minister himself, some improvement is noticeable. Already,there is some slippage, which is visible. For instance, there is anexpectation, and, some sort of commitment has been made, with regardto construction of 20-kilometres road per day. If we want to construct20-kilometres road a day, naturally, in the pipeline, there should bealmost 20,000-kilometres road for the year so that we can complete it.20-kilometres a day means more than 7,000-kilometres a year, whichmeans a minimum of 14,000-kilometres in two years. The preparation ofthe project report in a road takes almost twelve to fourteen months.Therefore, an attempt should be made to reduce this period, and, atdifferent stages, these types of exercises are being made. Someimprovement has taken place but it is not to the desirable extent.SHRI TIRUCHI SIVA: Sir, while appreciating the target increase of theinvestment in physical infrastructure from five per cent of GDP to nineper cent of GDP, I would like to say that the share towards water supplyand sanitation is only 6.99 per cent, which aims at fulfilling the basicneeds of the common man. Would the Ministry of Finance considerenhancing the share towards water supply and sanitation?SHRI PRANAB MUKHERJEE: Sir, these targets are fixed by thePlanning Commission. The Planning Commission proposals areapproved by the NDC. The NDC consists of the State Chief Ministersand the Cabinet Ministers. Therefore, it is not possible for any individual

41Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009Q.NO. 269( CONTD.)ministry just to say that we will increase this, or, we will decrease this.During the course of five years, as and when we find, and, it is proved,that in certain sectors, the expenditure is not up to the expectations, or,in some areas, expenditure is picking up, in the mid-term appraisal, wemake a course correction. That mid-term course correction is possiblebut that will have to be done in consultation with the PlanningCommission.(Ends)(Followed by sk-1h)



44Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009-gsp/sk/11.35/1HQ. No. 270SHRI D. RAJA: Sir, our respected Finance Minister is the most seniorMinister in the Government. He is a very experienced Minister. He willappreciate my question in the interest of the nation and in the interest ofthe democratic polity in the country. The Obulapuram MiningCorporation has earned the notoriety to be called as mines mafia in therecent times. The people of Andhra Pradesh and the people ofKarnataka are agitated and are in a campaign against the illegal activitiesof these mines. My question is, Sir, this Obulapuram Mining Corporationhad earned a whopping more than Rs. 10,000 crore, if my figures arecorrect. If they are not correct, I stand to be corrected.MR. CHAIRMAN: Question please.SHRI D. RAJA: Illegal mining of iron ore by two companies in theborder areas of Andhra Pradesh and Karnataka is depriving theGovernment revenue to the tune of Rs. 300 crores every year. Myquestion is, whether the Finance Ministry is considering to institute akind of CBI inquiry or Income Tax authorities inquiry into the illegalfudging of funds and accounts by this Corporation?SHRI PRANAB MUKHERJEE: Sir, so far Income Tax inquiry isconcerned, if we find out any case of tax evasion or tax avoidance, theIncome Tax Department can definitely set in motion. They do notrequire any permission. It is their routine job. This is based on theintelligence collected. As and when the Economic Intelligence CollectionUnit collects information, they set the motion in operation and do so.So, if any such things come to the notice of the Government, they will

45Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009Q.NO. 270( CONTD.)do so. And, if the hon. Member has any specific information, he cansend it and we can act on it, so far as income tax is concerned.The CBI does not come within the purview of the Finance Ministry.First there must be a request from the State Government concerned forspecifically identifying the criminality which is involved to institute a CBIinvestigation.So far the question was related to whether they have been givenany tax exemptions from different taxes by the Central Government, myanswer is, Central Government has not given any tax exemption inrespect of this particular concern and whatever taxes are due fromthem, we have collected them.SHRI D. RAJA: Sir, again the answer is related to service tax, I agree.But illegal activities of this Mining Corporation is in public domain. Iwould like the Government to take suo motu notice of this and try toaddress the concerns of the people. Having said that, Sir, my secondquestion is, I have some copies related to code of conduct for Ministers.Some of the Ministers in some State Governments are related to thisMining Corporation, and when the accusations are made, they flewdown to the capital of other States, justify their activities and challengethe very questions raised with regard to their illegal activities. I wouldlike to ask the senior Minister, our very respected Finance Minister,whether they can continue as Ministers when they are related to theseMining Corporations, or, they are having shares in these MiningCorporations. Being in position as Ministers, they try to influence thepolitical development and repeatedly show or demonstrate the dirty role

46Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009Q.NO. 270( CONTD.)of money power which ..(Interruptions).. clearly jeopardises ourdemocratic process.MR. CHAIRMAN: Please speak on the subject.SHRI D. RAJA: This question is not related to service tax; it relates toObulapuram Mining Corporation. Being the senior Minister, we wouldlike him to respond in the interest of democratic polity in our country.SHRI PRANAB MUKHERJEE: Sir, if somebody violates any norm orany code, there are remedial measures. There is a regularly, dulyconstitutedGovernment in the State. If any Minister in the StateGovernment violates code of conduct, it can be brought to the notice ofthe Governor. He can exercise his Constitutional power, whatever hasbeen vested in him.(Continued by 1J-YSR)-SK/YSR/11.40/1JSHRI PRANAB MUKHERJEE (CONTD.): Therefore, if something merelyappears in the media or if somebody has someperception..(Interruptions)..MR. CHAIRMAN: Silence, please.SHRI PRANAB MUKHERJEE: On the basis of that, I cannot make anycommitment on the floor of the House. I can go on the basis of facts.And the fact here is that when we sent a team of officers to a State toassess the situation there, immediately attacks were made against theCentral Government that we were interfering in the normal domain of theState Government. Therefore, these issues, where we can interfere andwhere we cannot interfere, also have to be kept in view. Simply

47Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009Q.NO. 270( CONTD.)because some hon. Members say that they want Centre's intervention inthe matter, it is not possible. Therefore, if there is any violation in themining sector, or if it is illegal mining, the Department of Mines will lookinto it. There are regular institutional arrangements for it. Minesinspectors are there and their job is to look into illegal mining. If someMinisters have violated the code of conduct or have unduly exercisedtheir influence in the decision-making of the State Government, theproper place to agitate is not Parliament but State Assembly and theGovernor of the State. (Interruptions)SHRI D. RAJA: Sir,..(Interruptions)..MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Raja, your turn is over. (Interruptions)SHRI B.K. HARIPRASAD: Sir, as the hon. Minister has rightly said, theCentre has not given any tax exemption to the mining industry. Thereare traditional miners in Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh. Now they havealmost closed it and the mafia have taken over the mining industry inKarnataka and Andhra Pradesh. They are a threat to the democraticset-up as rightly stated by Mr. Raja and it is true.MR. CHAIRMAN: Supplementary, please.SHRI B.K. HARIPRASAD: Sir, I just want to know from the hon. Ministerwhether the Environment Minister has given any clearance for mining inObulapuram. Second part of my question is, whether any tax exemptionhas been given by the State Government. And which Government hasgiven the tax exemption?SHRI PRANAB MUKHERJEE: Sir, so far as environment clearance isconcerned, the information, which we have got from the authorities

48Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009Q.NO. 270( CONTD.)concerned, is that the environment clearance has been taken by theconcerned authorities who are conducting environment clearance.So far as the State Government is concerned, yes, I have theinformation that the Government of Andhra Pradesh has not given anyconcession in respect of Obulapuram Mining Corporation or theiractivities; but they are participating in building up a steel plant wheresome concessions have been given by the State Government of AndhraPradesh. This is for Brahmani Steel. Concessions which the StateGovernment has given to it include 25 per cent of VAT for five years;reimbursement of power charges to the tune of 75 per cent at the rateof 75 paisa per unit for five years; 100 per cent waiver for registrationand mortgage fee; and they have allocated Rs. one crore for thedevelopment of infrastructural facilities at the plant site.SHRI M.V. MYSURA REDDY: Sir, the basic issue is tax evasion. ThisObulapuram Mining Corporation is exporting iron ore to China by underinvoicingand whatever the differential amount is there, they are parkingit in tax haven state. I request the Minister, through you, to investigateinto this matter through the IT Department and the Vigilance Department.It is a clear violation of FEMA.(Followed by VKK/1K)-YSR/VKK-MCM/1k/11.45SHRI PRANAB MUKHERJEE: Sir, all violations of FEMA and overinvoicingor under-invoicing are offences under Customs Act and dueaction should be taken.

49Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009Q.NO. 270( CONTD.)ÁÖß †Ö¸ü0ÃÖß0 ØÃÖÆü : ÃÖ¸ü, Æü´ÖÖ¸êü ¤êü¿Ö ´Öë †ÖòμÖ¸ü®Ö †Öê¸ü ×»Ö×´Öêü›ü Æîü †Öî¸ü Æü´ÖÖ¸êü μÖÆüÖÓ •ÖÖê Ãüß»Ö±îúŒÒüß•Ö Æïü, ˆ®Ö´Öë ÜÖ¯ÖŸÖ 78 ×´Ö×»ÖμÖ®Ö ü®Ö Ûúß Æîü, •Ö²Ö×Ûú ¯ÖÏÖê›üŒ¿Ö®Ö 300 ×´Ö×»ÖμÖ®Ö ü®Ö ÛúÖ ÆüÖê¸üÆüÖ Æîü… ŸÖÖê ¸êüÃü †ÖòμÖ¸ü®Ö †Öê¸ü ×Ûú®Ö ¿ÖŸÖÖí ¯Ö¸ü ÛúÆüÖÓ •ÖÖ ¸üÆüÖ Æîü, ‡ÃÖÛêú ²ÖÖ¸êü ´Öë ÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸ü ÃÖê•ÖÖ®ÖÛúÖ¸üß “ÖÖÆüŸÖÖ ÆæÓüËË?SHRI PRANAB MUKHERJEE: Sir, it is correct that we require it for ourown steel production. It is also correct that it is one of the importantexport items. But, if the hon. Member wants to ban export of iron ore,that is a policy matter and Question Hour is not meant for discussion onpolicy matters.(Ends)

50Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009ÁÖß ¹ý¦ü®ÖÖ¸üÖμÖÞÖ ¯ÖÖ×ÞÖ : ÃÖ¸ü, ˆ›ÍüßÃÖÖ ´Öë ³Öß ‡»Ö»ÖßÝÖ»Ö ´ÖÖ‡Ø®ÖÝÖ ÆüÖê ¸üÆüß Æîü......(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö)ÁÖß ÃÖ³ÖÖ¯Ö×ŸÖ : ¯ÖÖ×ÞÖ •Öß, ²Öîšü •ÖÖ‡‹….......(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö) ¯ÖÖ×ÞÖ •Öß, ²Öîšü •ÖÖ‡‹… ¯»Öß•Ö, ¯ÖÖ×ÞÖ •Öß,²Öîšü •ÖÖ‡‹…......(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö). You are violating the Rules of the House. †Ö¯Ö ²Öîšü•ÖÖ‡‹….......(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö) †Ö‡Ô ‹´Ö ÃÖÖò¸üß… (Interruptions)ÁÖß ¹ý¦ü®ÖÖ¸üÖμÖÞÖ ¯ÖÖ×ÞÖ : *MR. CHAIRMAN: Nothing will go on record. I will have to invoke theRule against the Member if you don't sit down. (Interruptions) Please sitdown. (Interruptions) Please resume your place. (Interruptions) I wouldrequest the party whip. (Interruptions) Please bring me the Rule Book. Iinvoke Rule...(Interruptions)... Mr. Pany, will you please resume yourplace? This indiscipline is not permissible. Please resume your place.(Interruptions)--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------* Not recorded.(Q. No.271 -- Hon. Member absent.)





55Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009¯ÖÏ¿®Ö ÃÖÓÜμÖÖ - 272ÃÖãÁÖß ÃÖã¿Öß»ÖÖ ×ŸÖ×¸üμÖÖ : ÃÖ¸ü, ´ÖÖ®Ö®ÖßμÖ ´ÖÓ¡Öß •Öß ®Öê ´Öê¸êü ¯ÖÏ£Ö´Ö ¯ÖÏ¿®Ö Ûêú ˆ¢Ö¸ü ´Öë "®ÖÖê, ÃÖ¸ü" ÛúÆüÖ Æîü…»Öê×Ûú®Ö ×¸ü¯»ÖÖ‡ ´Öë ´ÖÓ¡Öß •Öß ®Öê ²ÖÖê»ÖÖ Æîü ×Ûú ˆ®ÖÛêú ¯ÖÖÃÖ ×´ÖÃÖμÖæ•Ö Ûú¸ü®Öê ÃÖê ÃÖÓ²ÖÓ×¬ÖŸÖ 242 ÛÓú¯Ö»ÖëüËÃÖÆï… ÃÖ¸ü, ´ÖãôÖê ‡ÃÖÛúß •ÖÖ®ÖÛúÖ¸üß ®ÖÆüà ÆüÖê ¯ÖÖ‡Ô ×Ûú μÖÆü ×´ÖÃÖμÖæ•Ö Æîü μÖÖ ÛÓú¯Ö»Öëü ×ÛúμÖÖ Æîü, •Ö²Ö×Ûú ¤üÖê®ÖÖë“Öß•Ö †»ÖÝÖ-†»ÖÝÖ Æïü… ´ÖÓ¡Öß •Öß, ‡ÃÖÛúÖê Œ»Öê×¸ü±úÖ‡ Ûú¸ëü? ŒμÖÖë×Ûú ˆ®ÖÛêú ¯ÖÖÃÖ 242 ÛÓú¯Ö»ÖëüËÃÖ ÆüÖê®ÖêÛêú ²ÖÖ¤ü ³Öß there is no misuse of funds meant for energy. ÃÖ¸ü, ŒμÖÖ ¸üÖ•μÖ ÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸üÖë Ûêú‰ú¯Ö¸ü ÃÖ²Ö Ûãú”û ×®Ö³ÖÔ¸ü Ûú¸üÛêú ‡Ó¾Öê×ÃüÝÖê¿Ö®Ö †Öî¸ü ×´ÖÃÖμÖæ•Ö †Öò±ú ±Óú›ËüÃÖ Ûêú ×»Ö‹ ¸üÖ•μÖ ÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸üÖë ÛúÖêÛúÆüÖ •ÖÖŸÖÖ Æîü ŸÖ£ÖÖ ¸üÖÂÒüÃŸÖ¸üßμÖ ×®ÖÝÖ¸üÖ®Öß ÛúŸÖÖÔ ³Öß ×®ÖμÖãŒŸÖ ×Ûú‹ •ÖÖŸÖê Æïü, ‹êÃÖÖ ×¸ü¯»ÖÖ‡ ´ÖÖ®Ö®ÖßμÖ ´ÖÓ¡Öß•Öß ®Öê ×¤üμÖÖ Æîü… ŸÖÖê ‡ÃÖ ŸÖ¸üÆü ÃÖê ˆ›ÍüßÃÖÖ Ûêú ×»Ö‹ ¸üÖÂÒüÃŸÖ¸üßμÖ ×®ÖÝÖ¸üÖ®Öß ÛúŸÖÖÔ ×®ÖμÖãŒŸÖ ×ÛúμÖÖ ÝÖμÖÖ ÆîüμÖÖ ®ÖÆüà, μÖÆü ´Öê¸üÖ ¯ÖÏ¿®Ö Æîü?ÁÖß ÃÖß0¯Öß0 •ÖÖê¿Öß : ÃÖ³ÖÖ¯Ö×ŸÖ ´ÖÆüÖê¤üμÖ, ´ÖÖ®Ö®ÖßμÖÖ ÃÖ¤üÃμÖÖ ®Öê ¯Öæ”ûÖ ×Ûú ÃÖÖ‡•Öê×²Ö»Ö ±Óú›ËüÃÖ Ûêú ²ÖÖ¸êü ´Öë×ÛúŸÖ®Öß ÛÓú¯Ö»ÖëüËÃÖ Æïü… Æü´Öë Ûãú»Ö 1010 ÛÓú¯Ö»Öëü ×¸üÃÖß¾Ö Æãü‡Ô Æïü… ‡®Ö´Öë ÃÖê 483 ÛúÖê ×›üÃ¯ÖÖê•Ö ×ÛúμÖÖÝÖμÖÖ ŸÖ£ÖÖ 529 ¯ÖïØ›üÝÖ Æïü… •ÖÖê ÛÓú¯Ö»Öëü ¸ü×•ÖÃü¸ü Æîü, ˆÃÖ´Öë 242 ÛÓú¯Ö»Öëü ´Öë ÃÖê 93 ÛÓú¯Ö»Öëü ×›üÃ¯ÖÖê•ÖÆãü‡Ô Æïü †Öî¸ü ˆÃÖ´Öë 13 ÛÓú¯Ö»ÖëüËÃÖ ‹êÃÖß Æïü, •ÖÆüÖÓ ¯Ö¸ü 7.72 Ûú¸üÖê›Íü ÛúÖ ´ÖÖ´Ö»ÖÖ embezzlement ÛêúÃÖÖ£Ö •Öã›ÍüÖ Æãü†Ö Æîü… ‡ÃÖ×»Ö‹ ´ÖÖ®Ö®ÖßμÖÖ ÃÖ¤üÃμÖÖ ®Öê •ÖÖê ¯ÖÏ¿®Ö ¯Öæ”ûÖ, ˆÃÖ ÃÖÓ¤ü³ÖÔ ´Öë μÖÆü ˆ¢Ö¸ü ×¤üμÖÖÝÖμÖÖ Æîü… •ÖÆüÖÓ ŸÖÛú NLMs †¯ÖÖê‡Óü Ûú¸ü®Öê ÛúÖ ÃÖ¾ÖÖ»Ö Æîü, ²Öê×ÃÖÛú»Öß ‹êŒü Ûêú ×ÆüÃÖÖ²Ö ÃÖê ¯ÖÆü»Öê×ÝÖÏ¾ÖëÃÖê•Ö ÛúÖê Ãêüü ÝÖ¾Ö®ÖÔ´Öëü ÛúÖê ‹›ÒêüÃÖ Ûú¸ü®ÖÖ Æîü… Ãêüü ÝÖ¾Ö®ÖÔ´Öëü ÛúÖ®Öæ®Ö Ûêú †®ŸÖÝÖÔŸÖ ÃÖÖ¸üß ÛÓú¯Ö»ÖëüÛúÖê ‹›ÒêüÃÖ Ûú¸üŸÖß Æîü †Öî¸ü •ÖÖê ÛÓú¯Ö»Öëü Æü´ÖÖ¸êü ¯ÖÖÃÖ †ÖŸÖß Æîü †Öî¸ü ÝÖÏê¾Ö ®Öê“Ö¸ü Ûúß ÆüÖêŸÖß Æîü, ˆÃÖÛêú ÃÖÓ²ÖÓ¬Ö´Öë Æü´Ö NLMs †¯ÖÖê‡Óü Ûú¸üŸÖê Æïü…ÃÖãÁÖß ÃÖã¿Öß»ÖÖ ×ŸÖ×¸üμÖÖ : ÃÖ¸ü, ´Öê¸üÖ ¤æüÃÖ¸üÖ ÃÖ¯»Öß´ÖëÒüß Æîü… ˆ›ÍüßÃÖÖ ´Öë †Ö×¤ü¾ÖÖÃÖß †Öî¸ü ‹ÃÖ0ÃÖß0,‹ÃÖ0üß0 ´Ö×Æü»ÖÖ†Öë ÛúÖê NREGA †“”ûß ŸÖ¸üÆü ÃÖê Ûú¾Ö¸ü Ûú¸üŸÖÖ Æîü… ÃÖ¸ü, ´Öï μÖÆü •ÖÖ®Ö®ÖÖ “ÖÖÆæÓüÝÖß ×Ûú•ÖÆüÖÓ ¯Ö¸ü †Ö×¤ü¾ÖÖÃÖß, * †Öî¸ü ´Ö×Æü»ÖÖ‹Ó ÛúÖ´Ö Ûú¸üŸÖß Æïü.......(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö)ÁÖß †¾ÖŸÖÖ¸ü ØÃÖÆü Ûú¸üß´Ö¯Öã¸üß : ÃÖ¸ü,......(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö)ÁÖß ÃÖ³ÖÖ¯Ö×ŸÖ : †Ö¯Ö ²Öîšü •ÖÖ‡‹, †Ö¯ÖÛúß ü®ÖÔ ®ÖÆüà Æîü… Please resume your place.(Interruptions)ÁÖß †¾ÖŸÖÖ¸ü ØÃÖÆü Ûú¸üß´Ö¯Öã¸üß : ÃÖ¸ü, * ¿Ö²¤ü †®Ö¯ÖÖÙ»ÖμÖÖ´ÖëÒüß Æîü…......(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö)---------------------------------------------------------------------------------* Not recorded.

56Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009Q.NO. 272( CONTD.)ÁÖß ÃÖ³ÖÖ¯Ö×ŸÖ : †ÝÖ¸ü Æîü ŸÖÖê ¾ÖÆü ×¸üÛúÖ›Ôü ´Öë ®ÖÆüà •ÖÖ‹ÝÖÖ… †Ö¯Ö ²Öîšü •ÖÖ‡‹, ¾ÖÆü ×¸üÛúÖ›Ôü ´Öë ®ÖÆüà•ÖÖ‹ÝÖÖ…......(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö)ÃÖãÁÖß ÃÖã¿Öß»ÖÖ ×ŸÖ×¸üμÖÖ : ÃÖ¸ü, ´Öï ÜÖã¤ü ¤ü×»ÖŸÖ ÆæÓü, ‡ÃÖ×»Ö‹ ‹ÃÖ0ÃÖß0, ‹ÃÖ0üß0 ²ÖÖê»Ö ¸üÆüßÆæÓü…......(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö)ÁÖß †¾ÖŸÖÖ¸ü ØÃÖÆü Ûú¸üß´Ö¯Öã¸üß : ¤ü×»ÖŸÖ ÆüÖê®Öê ÃÖê †Ö¯ÖÛúÖê ‡ÃÖ ŸÖ¸üÆü ²ÖÖê»Ö®Öê ÛúÖ »ÖÖ‡ÃÖëÃÖ £ÖÖê›Íüß ×´Ö»Ö•ÖÖŸÖÖ Æîü…......(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö)ÁÖß ÃÖ³ÖÖ¯Ö×ŸÖ : †Ö¯Ö ²Öîšü •ÖÖ‡‹…ÃÖãÁÖß ÃÖã¿Öß»ÖÖ ×ŸÖ×¸üμÖÖ : šüßÛú Æîü, ´Öï ÃÖÓ¿ÖÖê¬Ö®Ö Ûú¸ü ¸üÆüß ÆæÓü… ÃÖÖÓÃÖ¤ü ´ÖÆüÖê¤üμÖ ÛúÖê †ÝÖ¸ü Ûãú”ûŸÖÛú»Öß±ú Æãü‡Ô Æîü ŸÖÖê ´Öï ÜÖã¤ü ¤ü×»ÖŸÖ ÆæÓü, ‡ÃÖ×»Ö‹ ´Öï ‡ÃÖ´Öë ÃÖÓ¿ÖÖê¬Ö®Ö Ûú¸ü ¸üÆüß ÆæÓü, ‹ÃÖ0ÃÖß0,‹ÃÖ0üß0 ÛúÆü ¸üÆüß ÆæÓü…(1L/GS ¯Ö¸ü ÛÎú´Ö¿Ö:)GS-MKS/11.50/1LÃÖãÁÖß ÃÖã¿Öß»ÖÖ ×ŸÖ×¸üμÖÖ (ÛÎú´ÖÖÝÖŸÖ) : •ÖÆüÖÓ ¯Ö¸ ´Ö×Æü»ÖÖ ‹ÃÖ0ÃÖß0, ‹ÃÖ0üß0ü Æïü, ˆ¬Ö¸ü •ÖÖò²Ö ÛúÖ›ÔüÆüÖêØ»›üÝÖ ²ÖÆãüŸÖ •μÖÖ¤üÖ ÃÖÓÜμÖÖ ´Öë ÆüÖêŸÖÖ Æîü… ÃÖ¸ü, ˆ›ÍüßÃÖÖ ´Öë •ÖÖò²Ö ÛúÖ›Ôü ÆüÖêØ»›üÝÃÖ Ûúß ×ÛúŸÖ®ÖßÛú´¯Ö»ÖëËüÃÖ Æïü, ˆ®Ö´Öë ÃÖê ×ÛúŸÖ®Öß ×›üÃÖ¯ÖÖò•Ö-†Öò±ú Æãü‡Ô Æïü ? ´ÖãôÖê •ÖÖ®ÖÛúÖ¸üß Æîü ×Ûú ×Æü®¤ãüÃŸÖÖ®ÖüÖ‡´ÃÖ †Öî¸ü ‡Ó×›üμÖ®Ö ‹ŒÃÖ¯ÖÏêÃÖ Ûêú «üÖ¸üÖ †Öò®Ö-»ÖÖ‡®Ö Ûú´¯Ö»ÖëËüÃÖ »ÖÖò•Ö ÆüÖê®Öê Ûêú ²ÖÖ¾Ö•Öæ¤ü †³ÖßŸÖÛú ÛúÖê‡Ô ×›üÃÖß•Ö®Ö ®ÖÆüà ÆüÖê ¯ÖÖμÖÖ Æîü… ´Öï •ÖÖ®Ö®ÖÖ “ÖÖÆüŸÖß ÆæÓü ×Ûú ‡®Ö Ûú´¯Ö»ÖëËüÃÖ ÛúÖê ×›üÃÖ¯ÖÖò•Ö-†Öò±ú Ûú¸ü®Öê Ûêú ×»Ö‹, ‡®Ö ¯Ö¸ü ×›üÃÖß•Ö®Ö »Öê®Öê Ûêú ×»Ö‹ ×ÛúŸÖ®ÖÖ ÃÖ´ÖμÖ “ÖÖ×Æü‹ ? ÃÖ¸ü, •ÖÖê 7000†³Öß ŸÖÛú †Öò®Ö »ÖÖ‡®Ö ×¸üÛúÖ›Ôü ´Öë •ÖÖò²Ö ÛúÖ›Ôü ÆüÖê»›üÃÖÔ Æïü, ˆ®ÖÛúÖê †³Öß ŸÖÛú ÛúÖ´Ö ®ÖÆüà ×¤üμÖÖ ÝÖμÖÖÆîü, ˆ®ÖÛúÖê †»ÖÖˆÓÃÖ ¤êü®Öê Ûêú ×»Ö‹ †Ö¯Ö ŒμÖÖ ÛúÖμÖÔ¾ÖÖÆüß Ûú¸ü®Öê •ÖÖ ¸üÆêü Æïü ?ÁÖß ÃÖß.¯Öß. •ÖÖê¿Öß : ÃÖ³ÖÖ¯Ö×ŸÖ ´ÖÆüÖê¤üμÖ, ˆ›ÍüßÃÖÖ ÃÖê 33 Ûú´¯Ö»ÖëËüÃÖ ×¸üÃÖß¾Ö Æãü‡Ô Æïü, ˆ®Ö´Öë ÃÖê 16Ûú´¯Ö»ÖëËüÃÖ ×›üÃÖ¯ÖÖò•Ö-†Öò±ú Æãü‡Ô Æïü †Öî¸ü 17 Ûú´¯Ö»ÖëËüÃÖ ²ÖÖÛúß Æïü… •ÖÆüÖÓ ŸÖÛú •ÖÖò²Ö ÛúÖ›Ôü ÛúÖÃÖ´²Ö®¬Ö Æîü, •ÖÖò²Ö ÛúÖ›Ôü ÛúÖ ¯ÖÓ“ÖÖμÖŸÖ »Öê¾Ö»Ö ¯Ö¸ü ×•ÖŸÖ®Öê †Ö¤ü´Öß ÛúÖ´Ö ¯Ö¸ü •ÖÖŸÖê Æïü, ×›ü´ÖÖÓ›ü Ûú¸üŸÖêÆïü, ŸÖÖê ˆŸÖ®Öê †Ö¤ü×´ÖμÖÖë ÛúÖê ÛúÖ´Ö ×´Ö»ÖŸÖÖ Æîü… Æü´ÖÖ¸êü ¯ÖÖÃÖ •ÖÖê •ÖÖ®ÖÛúÖ¸üß ˆ¯Ö»Ö²¬Ö Æîü, ˆÃÖ´Öë

57Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009Q.NO. 272( CONTD.)ˆ›ÍüßÃÖÖ Ûúß ´ÖÖ¡Ö 33 Ûú´¯Ö»ÖëËüÃÖ ×¸üÃÖß¾Ö Æãü‡Ô £Öà, ˆ®Ö´Öë ÃÖê 16 Æü´Ö®Öê ×›üÃÖ¯ÖÖò•Ö Ûúß Æïü †Öî¸ü 17Ûúß •ÖÖ®ÖÛúÖ¸üß Ãêüü ÝÖ¾Ö®ÖÔ´Öëü ÃÖê ´ÖÖÓÝÖ ¸üÆêü Æïü…MR. CHAIRMAN: Dr. K. Malaisamy. ...(Interruptions)... Dr. Malaisamy,please go ahead.DR. K. MALAISAMY: Sir, I have seen from the reply that a number ofcomplaints have been received, and they have been rightly referred tothe State Governments which are the implementing agencies. Sir, when,in States, the persons involved in complaints are likely to be the rulingparty men, will there be a free and fair inquiry and corrective measures?For that, what is your way out?SHRI C.P. JOSHI: Sir, recently, we have given instructions to Statesand we have also given them a direction that they should have aconcept of 'Ombudsman'. We are asking the State Governments toappoint Ombudsmen in every district of their States, and this process iscontinuing. In due course of time, we will review it and see to it thatthis takes place.MR. CHAIRMAN: Shri Rajniti Prasad.ÁÖß ¸üÖ•Ö®Öß×ŸÖ ¯ÖÏÃÖÖ¤ü : ÃÖ¸ü, ´ÖÖ®Ö®ÖßμÖ ´ÖÓ¡Öß •Öß ®Öê •ÖÖê Œ¾Öê¿“Ö®Ö ÛúÖ •Ö¾ÖÖ²Ö ×¤üμÖÖ Æîü, ŸÖÖê üÖêü»Önegate Ûú¸ü ×¤üμÖÖ Æîü †Öî¸ü ÛúÆüÖ Æîü ×Ûú (a) ÃÖê »ÖêÛú¸ü (e) ŸÖÛú ‡®ÖÛúÖ †Ö®Ã¾Ö¸ü "No" Æî… ÃÖ¸ü,´Öï ´ÖÖ®Ö®ÖßμÖ ´ÖÓ¡Öß •Öß ÃÖê μÖÆü •ÖÖ®Ö®ÖÖ “ÖÖÆüŸÖÖ ÆæÓü ×Ûú •Ö²Ö 242 Ûú´¯Ö»ÖëËüÃÖ ‡®ÖÛúÖê ×´Ö»Öß Æïü, ŸÖÖê(a) ÃÖê »ÖêÛú¸ü (e) ŸÖÛú μÖÆü ÛúÆü®ÖÖ ×Ûú Ûãú”û ³Öß ®ÖÆüà Æîü, †Ö®Ã¾Ö¸ü "No" Æîü, ŸÖÖê ˆ®Ö´Öë ¯Ö×®Ö¿Ö´Öëü¤ëüÝÖê μÖÖ ®ÖÆüà ¤ëüÝÖê, ŒμÖÖë×Ûú †Ö®Ã¾Ö¸ü No Æîü? ´Öï ´ÖÖ®Ö®ÖßμÖ ´ÖÓ¡Öß •Öß ÃÖê ×ÃÖ±Ôú ‡ŸÖ®ÖÖ Æüß ¯Öæ”û®ÖÖ“ÖÖÆüŸÖÖ ÆæÓü ×Ûú NREGA ÛúÖ ÛúÖμÖÔ ²ÖÆãüŸÖ ¯Ö×¾Ö¡Ö ÛúÖμÖÔ Æîü †Öî¸ü ×•ÖÃÖÛêú ÛúÖ¸üÞÖ †Ö¯Ö »ÖÖêÝÖ ÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸ü´Öë †Ö ÝÖ‹… ˆÃÖß ÛúÖ ´ÖÖ´Ö»ÖÖ ‡ŸÖ®ÖÖ ÝÖÓ³Öß¸ü Æîü, ŸÖÖê ŒμÖÖ ‹êÃÖê ¸üÖ•μÖÖë ´Öë •ÖÆüÖÓ NREGA šüßÛú ÃÖê

58Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009Q.NO. 272( CONTD.)ÛúÖ´Ö ®ÖÆüà Ûú¸ü ¸üÆüÖ Æîü, ŸÖÖê ˆÃÖÛêú ×»Ö‹ ¾ÖÆüÖÓ ¯Ö¸ü ÛúÖê‡Ô †Ö²•Ö¾ÖÔ¸ü †Ö¯Ö ³Öê•Ö®Öê ÛúÖ ÛúÖ´Ö Ûú¸ëüÝÖê ?μÖÆüß ´Öê¸üÖ ÃÖ¾ÖÖ»Ö Æîü †Öî¸ü ÛúÖê‡Ô ÃÖ¾ÖÖ»Ö ®ÖÆüà Æîü…ÁÖß ÃÖß.¯Öß. •ÖÖê¿Öß : ÃÖ³ÖÖ¯Ö×ŸÖ ´ÖÆüÖê¤üμÖ, NREGA ´Öë ‹Ûú ÃÖÖ»Ö ÛúÖ funds Ûú¸üß²ÖRs.40,000 crores Æîü… ´ÖÖ®Ö®ÖßμÖ ÃÖ¤üÃμÖ ®Öê ¯ÖÏ¿®Ö μÖÆü ¯Öæ”ûÖ Æîü ×Ûú sizeable fund ÛúÖˆ¯ÖμÖÖêÝÖ ®ÖÆüà Æãü†Ö Æîü… ´Öï ²ÖŸÖÖ®ÖÖ “ÖÖÆüŸÖÖ ÆæÓü ×Ûú Rs.40,000 crores Ûêú ¯ÖÏ¯ÖÖê¿Ö®Öêü ´Öë 1010Ûú´¯Ö»ÖëËüÃÖ Æü´Öë ×¸üÃÖß¾Ö Æãü‡Ô Æïü… ‡®Ö 1010 Ûú´¯Ö»ÖëËüÃÖ ´Öë 242 Ûú´¯Ö»ÖëËüÃÖ ´Öë ÃÖê ´ÖÖ¡Ö 13Ûú´¯Ö»ÖëËüÃÖ ‹êÃÖß Æïü, •ÖÆüÖÓ ¯Ö¸ü amount 7.72 crores ÛúÖ Æîü, ‡ÃÖ×»Ö‹ Æü´Ö®Öê ¯ÖÆü»Öê ¾ÖÖ»Öê ˆ¢Ö¸ü´Öë No ÛúÆüÖ Æîü… •ÖÆüÖÓ ŸÖÛú ´ÖÖ®Ö®ÖßμÖ ÃÖ¤üÃμÖ ®Öê ÛúÆüÖ Æîü ×Ûú NREGA ÛúÖê šüßÛú œÓüÝÖ ÃÖêimplement Ûú¸ü®Öê Ûêú ×»Ö‹ ŒμÖÖ Ûú¤ü´Ö ˆšüÖ ¸üÆêü Æïü… ÃÖ³ÖÖ¯Ö×ŸÖ ´ÖÆüÖê¤üμÖ, Æü¸ü ‹Ûú ´ÖÖ®Ö®ÖßμÖÃÖ¤üÃμÖ district level Monitoring Committee ÛúÖ ÃÖ¤üÃμÖ Æîü… Æü´Ö®Öê ÛúÆüÖ Æîü ×Ûú ¾ÖÆüŸÖß®Ö ´ÖÆüß®Öê ´Öë ´ÖßØüÝÖ Ûú¸êü, ‡ÃÖÛúß •ÖÖ®ÖÛúÖ¸üß »Öê †Öî¸ü Æü´Öë ÃÖæ“Ö®ÖÖ ¤êü… Ombudsman ÛêúÃÖÓ²ÖÓ¬Ö ´Öë Æü´Ö®Öê ¸üÖ•μÖ ÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸üÖë ÛúÖê ×®Ö¾Öê¤ü®Ö ×ÛúμÖÖ Æîü… Æü´Ö®Öê MIS ÛúÖ ×ÃÖÃü´Ö ¯»ÖêÃÖ Ûú¸ü ¸üÜÖÖÆîü… μÖê ÃÖ²Ö ¯ÖÏμÖÖÃÖ Ûú¸ü®Öê Ûêú ²ÖÖ¤ü Æü´Ö ÛúÖê×¿Ö¿Ö Ûú¸ü ¸üÆêü Æïü ×Ûú Ãêüü ÝÖ¾Ö®ÖÔ´Öë ŸÖã¸ü®ŸÖ ÝÖ×ŸÖ ÃÖêÛúÖ´Ö Ûú¸êüÝÖß †Öî¸ü Ombudsman Ûêú ´ÖÖ¬μÖ´Ö ÃÖê μÖ×¤ü Ãêüü ÝÖ¾Ö®ÖÔ´Öëü Ûú´¯Ö»ÖëËüÃÖ ÛúÖê šüßÛú œÓüÝÖÃÖê address ®ÖÆüà Ûú¸ü ¯ÖÖ ¸üÆüß Æîü, ŸÖÖê Lokpal Ûúß ×®ÖμÖã×ŒŸÖ ˆÃÖ “Öß•ÖÌ ÛúÖê šüßÛú œÓüÝÖ ÃÖêaddress Ûú¸ü ¯ÖÖ‹ÝÖß †Öî¸ü μÖÆü ÃÛúß´Ö šüßÛú œÓüÝÖ ÃÖê »ÖÖÝÖæ ÆüÖê ¯ÖÖ‹ÝÖß…ÁÖß ¸üÖ•Öß¾Ö ¿ÖãŒ»Ö : ÃÖ³ÖÖ¯Ö×ŸÖ •Öß, •ÖÖê Æü´ÖÖ¸üÖ ÃÖ¾ÖÖ»Ö £ÖÖ, ¾ÖÆü ³Öß ‡ÃÖß ÃÖê ÃÖÓ²ÖÓ×¬ÖŸÖ £ÖÖ… ´Öï´ÖÖ®Ö®ÖßμÖ ´ÖÓ¡Öß •Öß ÃÖê μÖÆü •ÖÖ®Ö®ÖÖ “ÖÖÆüŸÖÖ ÆæÓü ×Ûú •ÖÖê 40 per cent siphoning off Ûúß ²ÖÖŸÖÆîü ×•ÖÃÖÛêú ²ÖÖ¸êü ´Öë ˆ®ÆüÖë®Öê ÛúÆüÖ Æîü ×Ûú ÃÖæ“Ö®ÖÖ ‹Ûú×¡ÖŸÖ Ûúß •ÖÖ ¸üÆüß Æîü… ´Öï ¯Öæ”û®ÖÖ “ÖÖÆüŸÖÖ ÆæÓü ×Ûú‹êÃÖß ×¿ÖÛúÖμÖŸÖë •μÖÖ¤üÖŸÖ¸ü ×Ûú®Ö ¸üÖ•μÖÖë ÃÖê Æïü ? †Öî¸ü •Ö²Ö ¸üÖ•μÖ ÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸ëü †¯Ö®Öê ÃŸÖ¸ü ¯Ö¸ümonitoring ®ÖÆüà Ûú¸ü ¯ÖÖ ¸üÆüß Æïü, ŸÖÖê ŒμÖÖ Central Monitoring Agency ²Ö®ÖÖ®Öê ÛúÖ×¾Ö“ÖÖ¸ü Æîü, ŒμÖÖë×Ûú NREGA Ûêú ´ÖÖ´Ö»Öê ´Öë ÃÖ±ú»ÖŸÖÖ ²ÖÆãüŸÖ •Öºþ¸üß Æîü ?(1‹´Ö ¯Ö¸ü †ÖÝÖê)

59Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009-MKS-TMV-ASC/1M/11.55Q.NO. 272( CONTD.)ÁÖß ÃÖß.¯Öß. •ÖÖê¿Öß : ÃÖ³ÖÖ¯Ö×ŸÖ ´ÖÆüÖê¤üμÖ, ´Ö¬μÖ ¯ÖÏ¤êü¿Ö Ûúß ‹Ûú Ûú´¯Ö»Öëü Ûêú ÃÖÓ²ÖÓ¬Ö ´Öë IBN ´Öë ×›üÃ¯»ÖêÆãü†Ö ×Ûú ‡ÃÖ "®Ö¸êüÝÖÖ" Ûêú †ÓŸÖÝÖÔŸÖ ²ÖÆãüŸÖ •μÖÖ¤üÖ ³ÖÏÂüÖ“ÖÖ¸ü ÆüÖê ¸üÆüÖ Æîü… ˆÃÖ Ûú´¯Ö»Öëü Ûêú ²ÖÖ¤üÆü´Ö®Öê ´Ö¬μÖ ¯ÖÏ¤êü¿Ö Ûúß ÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸ü ÛúÖê ‡ÃÖÛúß •ÖÖÓ“Ö Ûú¸ü®Öê Ûêú ×»Ö‹ ×»ÖÜÖÖ †Öî¸ü CAG ÛúÖê ³Öß ×»ÖÜÖÖ×Ûú ¾ÖÆü ‡ÃÖÛúß •ÖÖÓ“Ö Ûú¸ëü… Æü´Ö®Öê NLM ´Öë †¯ÖÖò‡Óü´Öëü Ûú¸üÛêú ¯ÖŸÖÖ »ÖÝÖÖ®Öê ÛúÖ ÛúÖ´Ö ×ÛúμÖÖ… Weare addressing this problem. •ÖÖê μÖÆü 30 ÃÖê 40 ¯Ö¸üÃÖëü ±Óú›ü ÛúÖê siphon Ûú¸ü®Öê Ûúß²ÖÖŸÖ Ûú¸ü ¸üÆêü Æïü, μÖÆü ÃÖŸμÖ ®ÖÆüà Æî… Æü´Ö®Öê ‡ÃÖÛêú ²ÖÖ¸êü ´Öë ¯Öæ¸üß •ÖÖ®ÖÛúÖ¸üß ¯ÖÏÖ¯ŸÖ Ûú¸üÛêú CAG ÛúÖê‡®¾ÖÖò»¾Ö Ûú¸ü®Öê Ûúß ÛúÖê×¿Ö¿Ö Ûúß Æîü, Æü´Ö Ãêüü ÝÖ¾Ö®ÖÔ´Öëü ÃÖê ³Öß ÃÖæ“Ö®ÖÖ »Öê ¸üÆêü Æïü †Öî¸üObudsman Ûêú »ÖÖÝÖæ Ûú¸ü®Öê Ûêú ²ÖÖ¤ü, Æü´Ö ÃÖ´ÖôÖŸÖê ÆüîÓ ×Ûú ‡ÃÖ ŸÖ¸üÆü Ûúß ÃÖæ“Ö®ÖÖ †Ö ¸üÆüß Æîü,ˆÃÖÛêú ²ÖÖ¸êü ´Öë •Ö®ÖŸÖÖ Ûêú ÃÖÖ´Ö®Öê ÃÖÆüß ŸÖ£μÖ ÃÖÖ´Ö®Öê †Ö ¯ÖÖ‹ÓÝÖê… •ÖÖê •Ö®Ö¸ü»Ö Ûú´Öëü 30-40±Óú›üÛúÖ •ÖÖê Ûú¸ü®Öê ÛúÖ Æîü, ´Öï ÃÖ´ÖôÖŸÖÖ ÆæÓü ×Ûú μÖÆü ×Ã£Ö×ŸÖ ÃÖÆüß ®ÖÆüà Æîü…(ÃÖ´ÖÖ¯ŸÖ)





64Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009Q. NO. 273MR. CHAIRMAN: Please. Please observe decorum in the House.SHRI T. K. RANGARAJAN: Sir, my first supplementary is: What is thetotal value and percentage of the NPA, Non-Performing Assets, of thesebanks? What efforts are under way to reduce these outstandingliabilities?SHRI NAMO NARAIN MEENA: Sir, the NPA of the nationalised banks isaround 2.8 per cent at present, and efforts are being made to reducethis NPA by issuing various circulars and instructions by theGovernment, as well as, by the Reserve Bank of India.SHRI T. K. RANGARAJAN: Sir, it is 2.8 per cent. By merely issuingcirculars will you be able to recover those monies? Big people,heavyweights, have borrowed. There are 101 ways to escape from thatNPA and finally you will write them off. What exactly are you doing?My second supplementary is this. I think there is a uniform policy.What are you doing, as a Minister? Every Ministry is having the sametype of Non-Performing Assets. Take, for example, Indian OilCorporation. Its Non-Performing Assets are to the tune of Rs.530crores. There are two big people involved. I know who they are.MR. CHAIRMAN: Supplementary, please.SHRI T. K. RANGARAJAN: My supplementary is this. What is themethod that you are going to adopt?MR. CHAIRMAN: We are running out of time. Do you want an answerto your question or do you want to make a statement out of turn?

65Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009Q.NO. 273( CONTD.)SHRI T. K. RANGARAJAN: The question is: What are the immediatesteps taken by you to recover the money and to reduce the NPA?SHRI NAMO NARAIN MEENA: Sir, several steps have been taken toreduce the NPA, and there are guidelines from the Reserve Bank ofIndia to reduce the NPA and to recover the money. The banks areusing the OTS, One Time Settlement Scheme, as per the guidelines ofthe Reserve Bank of India. The hon. Member would be happy to knowthat by taking several steps, the NPA of the various banks is comingdown every year. The banks are recovering. The SARFAESI Act isbeing followed in all the cases.(Ends)



68Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009Q. NO. 274DR. JANARDHAN WAGHMARE: Sir, my first supplementary is: Whatmajor steps are you going to take to recover the losses? Have youprepared any plan?SHRI PRAFUL PATEL: Sir, there are various measures which havebeen initiated to stem the extent of loss, that is, first to reduce thequantum of expenditure and to make sure that there is revenueenhancement. There is a difficult time for the aviation industry as alsofor our national carrier. I am sure that various steps have been taken.Since the time is less, I will send a proper answer in writing to the hon.Member.(Ends)MR. CHAIRMAN: Question Hour is over.VK-LP/1N/12.00(MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN in the Chair)PAPERS LAID ON THE TABLESHRI G.K. VASAN: Sir, I lay on the Table;I. A copy each (in English and Hindi) of the following papers, undersub-section (1) of Section 619A of the Companies Act, 1956:(a) Ninth Annual Report and Accounts of the Ennore Port Limited(EPL), Chennai, for the year 2008-09, together with the Auditor'sReport on the Accounts and the comments of the Comptrollerand Auditor General of India thereon.(b) Review by Government on the working of the above Company.II. A copy each (in English and Hindi) of the following papers, underSection 5(E) of the Dock Workers (Regulation of Employment)Act, 1948:(a) Fifty-eighth Administration Report and Annual Accounts of the

69Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009erstwhile Bombay Dock Labour Board (Ex-BDLB), Mumbai, forthe year 2008-09, together with the Auditor's Report on theAccounts.(b) Forty-eighth Administration Report and Annual Accounts of theVisakhapatnam Dock Labour Board (VDLB),Visakhapatnam, forthe year 2008-09, together with the Auditors Report on theAccounts.(c) Review by Government on the working of the above Boards.SHRI PRAFUL PATEL: Sir, I lay on the Table, a copy each (in Englishand Hindi) of the following Notifications of the Ministry of Civil Aviation,under Section 14 A of the Aircraft Act, 1934 together with ExplanatoryNote on the Notifications:(1) G.S.R. 744 (E), dated the 12 th October, 2009, publishing theAircraft (Thirteenth Amendment) Rules, 2009.(2) G.S.R. 757 (E), dated the 16 th October, 2009, publishing theAircraft (Fifteenth Amendment) Rules, 2009.(3) G.S.R. 823 (E), dated the 18 th November, 2009, publishingthe Aircraft (Carriage of Dangerous Goods) Amendment Rules,2009.SHRI NAMO NARAIN MEENA: Sir, I lay on the Table;I. A copy (in English and Hindi) of the Ministry of Finance(Department of Financial Services) Notification No. S.O. 2383(E), dated the15 th September, 2009, publishing the Nationalised Banks (Managementand Miscellaneous Provisions) (Amendment) Scheme, 2009, under subsection(6) of Section 9 of the Banking Companies (Acquisition andTransfer of Undertakings) Act, 1970.II. A copy (in English and Hindi) of the Ministry of Finance (Departmentof Financial Services) Notification No. S.O. 2384(E), dated the15 th September, 2009, publishing the Nationalised Banks (Managementand Miscellaneous Provisions) (Amendment) Scheme, 2009, under subsection(6) of Section 9 of the Banking Companies (Acquisition andTransfer of Undertakings) Act, 1980.III. A copy (in English and Hindi) of the Ministry of Finance(Department of Financial Services) Notification No. S.O. 2402 (E), datedthe 18 th September, 2009, publishing Corrigendum to S.O. 2383 (E), dated

70Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009the 15 th September, 2009.IV. A copy each (in English and Hindi) of the following Notifications ofthe Ministry of Finance (Department of Financial Services), under subsection(3) of Section 48 of the Life Insurance Corporation of India Act,1956:—(1) G.S.R. 631 (E), dated the 2 nd September, 2009, publishing theLife Insurance Corporation of India Class I Officers (Revision ofTerms and Conditions of Service) Amendment Rules, 2009.(2) G.S.R. 753 (E), dated the 15 th October, 2009, publishing theLife Insurance Corporation of India (Special Allowance for In-House Development of Actuarial Capability) Amendment Rules,2009.(3) G.S.R. 818 (E), dated the 12 th November, 2009, publishing theLife Insurance Corporation of India Development Officers(Revision of Certain Terms and Conditions of Service) Rules,2009.V. A copy (in English and Hindi) of the Ministry of Finance (Departmentof Economic Affairs) Notification No. G.S.R. 829 (E), dated the 17 thNovember, 2009, publishing the Coinage of the One Hundred Rupees andFive Rupees coined to commemorate the occasion of 60 years of theCommonwealth Rules, 2009, under sub-section (3) of Section 21 of theCoinage Act, 1906.VI. A copy (in English and Hindi) of the Ministry of Finance(Department of Economic Affairs) Notification G.S.R. 748 (E), dated the13 th October, 2009, publishing the Post Office Savings Account(Amendment) Rules, 2009, under sub-section (3) of Section 15 of theGovernment Savings Banks Act, 1873.VII. A copy each (in English and Hindi) of the following papers, underSection 29 of the Life Insurance Corporation Act, 1956:(a) Fifty-second Annual Report and Accounts of the Life InsuranceCorporation for India (LIC), Mumbai, for the year 2008-09,together with the Auditors Report on the Accounts.(b) Review by Government on the working of the aboveCorporation.(c) Thirty - ninth Valuation Report of the Life Insurance

71Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009Corporation of India as on 31 st March, 2009.VIII. A copy each (in English and Hindi) of the Annual Report on theworking and activities of the following Banks for the year 2008-09,together with Accounts and Auditors Report thereon, under sub-section(8) of Section 10 of the Banking Companies (Acquisition and Transfer ofUndertakings) Act, 1980:1. Corporation Bank2. Oriental Bank of Commerce3. Vijaya BankIX. A copy each (in English and Hindi) of the Annual Report on theworking and activities of the following Banks for the year 2008-09,together with Accounts and Auditors Report thereon, under sub-section(8) of Section 10 of the Banking Companies (Acquisition and Transfer ofUndertakings) Act, 1970:1. Bank of Baroda2. Canara Bank3. Dena Bank4. Indian Bank5. Indian Overseas Bank6. Punjab National Bank7. UCO BankSHRI NAMO NARAIN MEENA: Sir, I lay on the Table;I. A copy (in English and Hindi) of the Ministry of Finance (Departmentof Revenue) Notification No. G.S.R. 805 (E), dated the 10 th November,2009, amending Notification No. G.S.R. 277 (E), dated the 1 st April, 2003,to substitute certain entries in the original Notification, under Section 159of the Customs Act, 1962, together with Explanatory Memorandum on theNotification.II. A copy (in English and Hindi) of the following papers:(a) Annual Report and Accounts of the National Institute of Public

72Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009Finance and Policy, New Delhi, for the year 2008-09, together withthe Auditor's Report on the Accounts.(b) Review by Government on the working of the above Institute.SHRI MURLI DEORA: Sir, I lay on the Table;I. A copy (in English and Hindi) of the Ministry of Petroleum andNatural Gas Notification G.S.R. 812 (E), dated the 12 th November, 2009,publishing the Appellate Tribunal for the Petroleum and Natural Gas(Procedure, Form, Fee and Record of Proceedings) Rules, 2009, underSection 62 of the Petroleum and Natural Gas Regulatory Board Act, 2006.II. A copy (in English and Hindi) of the Ministry of Petroleum andNatural Gas Notification G.S.R. 615 (E), dated the 29 th August, 2009,amending Notification No. S.O. 219 (E), dated the 26 th March, 1981, tosubstitute certain entries in the original Notification, under Section 10 ofthe Oilfield (Regulation and Development) Act, 1948.III. A copy each (in English and Hindi) of the following papers, undersub-section (1) of Section 619A of the Companies Act, 1956:(a) Annual Report and Accounts of the Balmer Lawrie InvestmentsLimited (BLIL), Kolkata, for the year 2008-09, together with theAuditor's Report on the Accounts and the comments of theComptroller and Auditor General of India thereon.(b) Ninety-second Annual Report and Accounts of the Balmer Lawrieand Company Limited, Kolkata, for the year 2008-09, togetherwith the Auditor's Report on the Accounts and the comments ofthe Comptroller and Auditor General of India thereon.(c) Fifty-sixth Annual Report and Accounts of the Bharat PetroleumCorporation Limited (BPCL), Mumbai, for the year 2008-09,together with the Auditor's Report on the Accounts and thecomments of the Comptroller and Auditor General of Indiathereon.(d) Fifty-seventh Annual Report and Accounts of the HindustanPetroleum Corporation Limited (HPCL), Mumbai, for the year2008-09, together with the Auditor's Report on the Accountsand the comments of the Comptroller and Auditor General of

73Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009India thereon.(e) Fifth Annual Report and Accounts of the Indian StrategicPetroleum Reserves Limited (ISPRL), New Delhi, for the year2008-09, together with the Auditor's Report on the Accountsand the comments of the Comptroller and Auditor General ofIndia thereon.(f) Annual Report and Accounts of the Biecco Lawrie Limited(BIECCO), Kolkata, for the year 2008-09, together with theAuditor's Report on the Accounts and the comments of theComptroller and Auditor General of India thereon.(g) Forty-fourth Annual Report and Accounts of the Engineers IndiaLimited (EIL), New Delhi, for the year 2008-09, together with theAuditor's Report on the Accounts and the comments of theComptroller and Auditor General of India thereon.(h) Reviews by Government on the working of the above Companies.IV. A copy each (in English and Hindi) of the following papers, undersub-section (4) of Section 20 of the Oil Industry (Development) Act, 1974:(a) Annual Report and Accounts of the Oil Industry DevelopmentBoard (OIDB), New Delhi, for the year 2008-09, together withthe Auditor's Report on the Accounts and the comments of theComptroller and Auditor General of India thereon.(b) Review by Government on the working of the above Board.SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI: Sir, I lay on the Table;I. A copy (in English and Hindi) of the Ministry of Health and FamilyWelfare (Department of Health) Notification S.O. 1868 (E), dated the31 st July, 2009, regarding appointment of the 31 st July 2009, as the dayon which provision of Sections 36 to 47 of the Act shall come into force,under Section 93 of the Food Safety and Standards Act, 2006.II. A copy (in English and Hindi) of the Ministry of Health and FamilyWelfare (Department of Health) Notification G.S.R. 651 (E), dated the9 th September, 2009, publishing the Drugs and Cosmetics (5 thAmendment) Rules, 2009, under Section 38 of the Drugs and CosmeticsAct, 1940.III. A copy each (in English and Hindi) of the following papers:

74Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009(a) Annual Report of the AIDS Prevention and Control (APAC)Project, Voluntary Health Services (VHS), Chennai, for the year2008-09.(b) Annual Accounts of the AIDS Prevention and Control (APAC)Project, Voluntary Health Services (VHS), Chennai, for the year2008-09, and the Audit Report thereon.(c) Review by Government on the working of the above Project.SHRI MUKUL ROY: Sir, I lay on the Table, under sub-section (1) ofSection 619A of the Companies Act, 1956, a copy each (in English andHindi) of the following papers:(a) Thirty-seventh Annual Report and Accounts of the CochinShipyard Limited (CSL), Kochi, for the year 2008-09, togetherwith the Auditor's Report on the Accounts and the commentsof the Comptroller and Auditor General of India thereon.(b) Review by Government on the working of the aboveCompany.SHRI S. GANDHI SELVAN: Sir, I lay on the Table, under Section 38 ofthe Drugs and Cosmetics Act, 1940, a copy (in English and Hindi) of theMinistry of Health and Family Welfare (Department of AYUSH) NotificationG.S.R. 764 (E), dated the 20 th October, 2009, publishing the Drug andCosmetics (Sixth Amendment) Rules, 2009, together with delay statementon the Notification.SHRI VILAS RAO DESHMUKH: Sir, on behalf of SHRI ARUN YADAV, Ilay on the Table, a copy each (in English and Hindi) of the followingpapers, under sub-section (1) of Section 619A of the Companies Act,1956:(i)(a) Thirty-seventh Annual Report and Accounts of the Scooters IndiaLimited (SIL), Lucknow, for the year 2008-09, together with theAuditor's Report on the Accounts and the comments of the

75Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009Comptroller and Auditor General of India thereon.(b) Twenty-fifth Annual Report and Accounts of the Tyre Corporationof India Limited (TCIL), Kolkata, for the year 2008-09, togetherwith the Auditor's Report on the Accounts and the commentsof the Comptroller and Auditor General of India thereon.(c) Forty-fourth Annual Report and Accounts of the Triveni StructuralsLimited (TSL), Naini, Allahabad, for the year 2008-09, together withthe Auditor's Report on the Accounts and the comments of theComptroller and Auditor General of India thereon.(d) Forty-ninth Annual Report and Accounts of the Tungabhadra SteelProducts Limited (TSPL), Hospet, Karnataka, for the year2008-09, together with the Auditor's Report on the Accounts andthe comments of the Comptroller and Auditor General of Indiathereon.(e) Thirty-ninth Annual Report and Accounts of the Bharat Pumpsand Compressors Limited (BPCL), Naini, Allahabad, for the year2008-09, together with the Auditor's Report on the Accounts andthe comments of the Comptroller and Auditor General of Indiathereon.(f) Fiftieth Annual Report and Accounts of the Heavy EngineeringCorporation Limited (HEC), Ranchi, for the year 2008-09, togetherwith the Auditor's Report on the Accounts and the commentsof the Comptroller and Auditor General of India thereon.(g) Annual Report and Accounts of the M/s Bridge and RoofCompany (India) Limited, Kolkata, for the year 2008-09, togetherwith the Auditor's Report on the Accounts and the comments ofthe Comptroller and Auditor General of India thereon.(h) Statement by Government accepting the above Reports.(ii)(a) Fifty-seventh Annual Report and Accounts of the HindustanCables Limited (HCL), Kolkata, the year 2008-09, together withthe Auditor's Report on the Accounts and the comments of theComptroller and Auditor General of India thereon.(b) Sixty-second Annual Report and Accounts of the NEPA Limited,Nepanagar, Madhya Pradesh, for the year 2008-09, together withthe Auditor's Report on the Accounts and the comments of the

76Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009Comptroller and Auditor General of India thereon.(c) Reviews by Government on the working of the above Companies.SHRI PRADEEP JAIN: Sir, I lay on the Table, a copy each (in Englishand Hindi) of the following papers:(a) Annual Report and Accounts of the Council for Advancement ofPeoples Action and Rural Technology (CAPART), New Delhi, forthe year 2007-08, together with the Auditor's Report on theAccounts.(b) Statement giving reasons for the delay in laying the papersmentioned at (a) above.(Ends)ÁÖß ˆ¯ÖÃÖ³ÖÖ¯Ö×ŸÖ : †Ö¯Ö •ÖÖ‡‹ ..(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö)..´Öï †Ö¯ÖÛúß ²ÖÖŸÖ ÃÖã®ÖæÓÝÖÖ, ´ÖÝÖ¸ü †Ö¯Ö †¯Ö®Öß ÃÖßü ¯Ö¸ü•ÖÖ‡‹ ..(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö)..REPORTS OF THE DEPARTMENT RELATED PARLIAMENTARYSTANDING COMMITTEE ON CHEMICALS AND FERTILIZERSSHRI A.A. JINNAH (TAMIL NADU) : Sir, I lay on the Table, a copy each(in English and Hindi) of the following Reports of the Department-relatedParliamentary Standing Committee on Chemicals and Fertilizers (2009-10):(i) First Report (Fifteenth Lok Sabha) on Demands for Grants(2009-10) of the Ministry of Chemicals and Fertilizers (Departmentof Pharmaceuticals);(ii) Second Report (Fifteenth Lok Sabha) on Demands for Grants(2009-10) of the Ministry of Chemicals and Fertilizers (Departmentof Fertilizers); and(iii) Third Report on Action Taken by the Government on therecommendations of the Committee (2008-09) contained in theirTwenty-seventh Report (Fourteenth Lok Sabha) on Performance ofFertilizer Industry in Public, Private and Cooperative Sectors.(Ends)

77Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009STATEMENTS OF THE COMMITTEE ON WELFARE OFSCHEDULED CASTES AND SCHEDULED TRIBESSHRI PRAVEEN RASHTRAPAL (GUJARAT): Sir, I lay on the Table, acopy each (in English and Hindi) of the following Statements of theCommittee on the Welfare of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes:(i) Final Action Taken Statements of the Government on theRecommendations/Observations contained in Chapter - I of theTwenty-seventh Report (Fourteenth Lok Sabha) on Reservation forand Employment of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes inUnited India Insurance Company Limited.(ii) Final Action Taken Statements of the Government on theRecommendations/Observations contained in Chapter - I of theThirtieth Report (Fourteenth Lok Sabha) on Reservation for andEmployment of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes inAirports Authority of India.(Ends)

78Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009MOTION FOR ELECTION TO THE NATIONAL SHIPPING BOARDTHE MINISTER OF SHIPPING (SHRI G.K. VASAN): Sir, I move thefollowing Motion:That in pursuance of clause (a) of sub-section (2) of Section 4 ofthe Merchant Shipping Act, 1958 (44 of 1958), read with sub-rule(2) of Rule 4 of the National Shipping Board Rules, 1960, thisHouse do proceed to elect, in such manner as the Chairman maydirect, one Member from among the Members of the House, tobe a member of the National Shipping Board in the vacancycaused due to the resignation of Shri Su. Thirunavukkarasar fromthe membership of Rajya Sabha w.e.f. the 9 th November, 2009.The question was put and the motion was adopted.(Ends)ÁÖß ˆ¯ÖÃÖ³ÖÖ¯Ö×ŸÖ : †Ö¯Ö •ÖÖ‡‹ ..(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö)..´Öï †Ö¯ÖÛúß ²ÖÖŸÖ ÃÖã®ÖæÓÝÖÖ, ´ÖÝÖ¸ü †Ö¯Ö †¯Ö®Öß ÃÖßü ¯Ö¸ü•ÖÖ‡‹ ..(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö)..SHRI RAJNITI PRASAD: Sir, I may be allowed to speak.ÁÖß ˆ¯ÖÃÖ³ÖÖ¯Ö×ŸÖ : ¸üÖ•Ö®Öß×ŸÖ ¯ÖÏÃÖÖ¤ü •Öß, †Ö¯Ö ‹Ûú ×´Ö®Öü ´Öê¸üß ²ÖÖŸÖ ÃÖã×®Ö‹..(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö)..(Óakg/1o ¯Ö¸ü •ÖÖ¸üß)AKG-RG/1O/12.05ÁÖß †»Öß †®Ö¾Ö¸ü †ÓÃÖÖ¸üß : ´ÖÆüÖê¤üμÖ, Æü´Ö »ÖÖêÝÖÖë ®Öê '“ÖÖî£Öß ¤ãü×®ÖμÖÖ' †ÜÖ²ÖÖ¸ü Ûêú ×ÜÖ»ÖÖ±ú ®ÖÖê×üÃÖ×¤üμÖÖ Æîü… μÖÆü †ÜÖ²ÖÖ¸ü ¯Öæ¸êü ÆüÖˆÃÖ ÛúÖê ... (¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö) ...ÁÖß ˆ¯ÖÃÖ³ÖÖ¯Ö×ŸÖ : †Ö¯Ö®Öê Privilege Notice ×¤üμÖÖ Æîü… The Privilege Notice is underthe consideration of the Chairman.ÁÖß †»Öß †®Ö¾Ö¸ü †ÓÃÖÖ¸üß : ´ÖÆüÖê¤üμÖ, μÖÆü ²ÖÆãüŸÖ ÝÖ´³Öß¸ü ´ÖÖ´Ö»ÖÖ Æîü ... (¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö) ... ÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸ü Æü´Ö»ÖÖêÝÖÖë ÛúÖê ... (¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö) ... Æü´Ö »ÖÖêÝÖÖë ÛúÖê ²Öê‡••ÖŸÖ Ûú¸ü ¸üÆüß Æîü ... (¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö) ...ÁÖß ˆ¯ÖÃÖ³ÖÖ¯Ö×ŸÖ : †Ö¯Ö ²Öî×šü‹ ... (¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö) ... ´Öï ²ÖŸÖÖŸÖÖ ÆæÑü ... (¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö) ...

79Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009ÁÖß †»Öß †®Ö¾Ö¸ü †ÓÃÖÖ¸üß : ÛúÖê‡Ô †ÜÖ²ÖÖ¸ü ¯Öæ¸êü ÆüÖˆÃÖ Ûêú ²ÖÖ¸êü ´Öë ×»ÖÜÖê ... (¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö) ... †ÖÃÖ®Ö¯Ö¸ü ³Öß †ÖõÖê¯Ö ×ÛúμÖÖ ÝÖμÖÖ Æîü ... (¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö) ... ¤üÖê ÃÖÖ»Ö ÃÖÖŸÖ ´ÖÆüß®Öê ÃÖê ¸ÓüÝÖ®ÖÖ£Ö ×´ÖÁÖ Ûú´Öß¿Ö®ÖÛúß ×¸ü¯ÖÖêÔü ¸üÜÖß Æãü‡Ô Æîü ... (¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö) ...ÁÖß ˆ¯ÖÃÖ³ÖÖ¯Ö×ŸÖ : †ÓÃÖÖ¸üß ÃÖÖÆü²Ö, †Ö¯Ö ²Öî×šü‹ ... (¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö) ... Please sit down ...(Interruptions) Nothing is going on record. ... (Interruptions)ÁÖß †»Öß †®Ö¾Ö¸ü †ÓÃÖÖ¸üß : *ÁÖß ˆ¯ÖÃÖ³ÖÖ¯Ö×ŸÖ : †Ö¯Ö ²Öî×šü‹ ¯»Öß•ÖÌ ... (¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö) ... †Ö¯Ö •ÖÌ¸üÖ ºþ»ÃÖ ¯Ö×œÍü‹ ... (¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö) ...ÁÖß ÃÖÖ×²Ö¸ü †»Öß : ÃÖ¸ü, Æü´Ö †Ö¯ÖÛúÖ protection “ÖÖÆüŸÖê Æïü ... (¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö) ...ÁÖß ˆ¯ÖÃÖ³ÖÖ¯Ö×ŸÖ : †Ö¯Ö ŒμÖÖ protection “ÖÖÆüŸÖê Æïü ... (¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö) ... †Ö¯Ö ŒμÖÖ protection“ÖÖÆüŸÖê Æïü ... (¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö) ... †Ö¯Ö ²Öî×šü‹ ... (¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö) ...ÁÖß ÃÖÖ×²Ö¸ü †»Öß : *ÁÖß ˆ¯ÖÃÖ³ÖÖ¯Ö×ŸÖ : †Ö¯Ö ŒμÖÖ ²ÖÖê»Ö ¸üÆêü Æïü ... (¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö) ... Please sit down, I am onmy legs. Please sit down ... (Interruptions) ¤êü×ÜÖ‹, †ÓÃÖÖ¸üß ÃÖÖÆü²Ö, †Ö¯Ö ²Öî×šü‹... (¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö) ... †Ö¯Ö ŒμÖÖ Ûú¸ü ¸üÆêü Æïü ... (¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö) ... ¯»Öß•ÖÌ †Ö¯Ö ²Öî×šü‹ ... (¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö) ... ´ÖïÜÖ›ÍüÖ ÆæÑü, †Ö¯Ö ²Öî×šü‹… ¤êü×ÜÖ‹, ‹Ûú †ÜÖ²ÖÖ¸ü ´Öë •ÖÖê Ûãú”û †ÖμÖÖ Æãü†Ö Æîü, ˆÃÖÛêú ‰ú¯Ö¸ü †Ö¯Ö®Öê“ÖêμÖ¸ü´Öî®Ö ÛúÖê ‹Ûú Privilege Notice ×¤üμÖÖ Æîü ... (¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö) ... šüßÛú Æîü, ´Öï ˆÃÖÛúß merits¯Ö¸ü ®ÖÆüà ²ÖÖê»Ö ¸üÆüÖ ÆæÑü… †Ö¯Ö®Öê ®ÖÖê×üÃÖ ×¤üμÖÖ Æîü… ºþ»ÃÖ Ûêú ×ÆüÃÖÖ²Ö ÃÖê the notice is underthe consideration of the hon. Chairman. Once he takes a decision, thematter will be notified. ‡ÃÖÛêú ‰ú¯Ö¸ü ¤æüÃÖ¸üß ÛúÖê‡Ô ÛúÖ¸Ôü¾ÖÖ‡Ô Æü´ÖÖ¸êü ÃÖ¤ü®Ö ´Öë ®ÖÆüà Æîü…‡ÃÖÛêú ‰ú¯Ö¸ü ´Öî´²ÖÃÖÔ Ûúß ŸÖ¸ü±ú ÃÖê ³Öß ÛúÖê‡Ô ®ÖÖê×üÃÖ ®ÖÆüà Æîü… †ÝÖ¸ü †Ö¯Ö ‡ÃÖÛúÖê ˆšüÖ®ÖÖ “ÖÖÆüŸÖêÆïü, ŸÖÖê †Ö¯Ö proper notice ¤ëü, ×±ú¸ü †Ö¯Ö ‡ÃÖê ˆšüÖ ÃÖÛúŸÖê Æïü…ÁÖß ÃÖÖ×²Ö¸ü †»Öß : ÃÖ¸ü, ®ÖÖê×üÃÖ Æîü ... (¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö) ...ÁÖß ˆ¯ÖÃÖ³ÖÖ¯Ö×ŸÖ : ÛúÆüÖÑ Æîü ®ÖÖê×üÃÖ? ... (¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö) ... ÛúÆüÖÑ Æîü ®ÖÖê×üÃÖ? ®ÖÖê×üÃÖ ŸÖÖê ®ÖÆüà Æîü ...(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö) ...Mr. Madhu, what is it that you want?(Interruptions) Where is------------------------------------------------------------------------------------* Not recorded.

80Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009the notice?(Interruptions) That is not the notice. Showing a newspaperis not the notice. You are all experienced Members. Please sitdown...(Interruptions) I agree that a Privilege Notice has been given.That is under the consideration of the hon. Chairman. Beyond that,there is no matter before this House, and it will not be takenup...(Interruptions)SHRI JESUDASU SEELAM: It is the request of all theMembers...(Interruptions)ÁÖß ˆ¯ÖÃÖ³ÖÖ¯Ö×ŸÖ : †Ö¯Ö ŒμÖÖ “ÖÖÆüŸÖê Æïü? ... (¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö) ... ×¸ü¯ÖÖêÔü ÛúÖê êü²Ö»Ö Ûú¸ü®ÖÖ “ÖêμÖ¸ü ÛúÖÛúÖ´Ö ®ÖÆüà Æîü ... (¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö) ... †Ö¯Ö ˆÃÖ ¯Ö¸ü ®ÖÖê×üÃÖ ¤üß×•Ö‹ ×Ûú ×¸ü¯ÖÖêÔü ÛúÖê êü²Ö»Ö Ûú¸ü®ÖÖ Æîü,that will be considered. ... (Interruptions) †Ö¯Ö ‡ÃÖ ŸÖ¸üÆü ÃÖê ®ÖÆüà ˆšüÖ ÃÖÛúŸÖê ...(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö) ...ÁÖß ÃÖÖ×²Ö¸ü †»Öß : ÃÖ¸ü, Æü´Ö †Ö¯ÖÛúÖ protection “ÖÖÆüŸÖê Æïü ... (¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö) ...ÁÖß ˆ¯ÖÃÖ³ÖÖ¯Ö×ŸÖ : †Ö¯Ö ²ÖêÛúÖ¸ü ´Öë †¯Ö®ÖÖ †Öî¸ü ÆüÖˆÃÖ ÛúÖ ¾ÖŒŸÖ •ÖÍÖμÖÖ Ûú¸ü ¸üÆêü Æïü ... (¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö)... ¤êü×ÜÖ‹, †Ö¯Ö •ÖÖê “ÖÖÆüŸÖê Æïü, †ÝÖ¸ü ˆÃÖÛêú ×»Ö‹ proper notice ¤ëü, ŸÖÖê ¾ÖÆü consider×ÛúμÖÖ •ÖÖ‹ÝÖÖ… †Ö¯Ö •ÖÖê ³Öß ÛúÆëü, ²ÖÝÖî¸ü ®ÖÖê×üÃÖ Ûêú Ûãú”û ®ÖÆüà ÆüÖêÝÖÖ ... (¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö) ... ´Öï †Ö¯ÖÃÖêμÖÆü ÛúÆü ¸üÆüÖ ÆæüÑ ×Ûú †Ö¯Ö ... (¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö) ... ¤êü×ÜÖ‹, †•ÖÍß•ÖÍ ¯ÖÖ¿ÖÖ •Öß, †Ö¯Ö ®ÖÖê×üÃÖ Ûêú ²ÖÝÖî¸ü ...(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö) ... Nobody wants to listen. What can I do? ... (Interruptions)SHRI D. RAJA: Sir, the issue is very simple. The issue is being raisedrepeatedly in this House. The Government should make somecategorical assurance that the Report will be placed on the Table of theHouse. That is all they want. The privilege matter is a separate issue.MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: It is not for the Chair to ask theGovernment to lay any Report on the Table of the House. If theGovernment has not tabled the Report of any Commission of Inquiry,you give a notice. Accordingly, it will be considered...(Interruptions)

81Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009ÁÖß ŸÖÖ×¸üÛú †®Ö¾Ö¸ü : ÃÖ¸ü, ‡ÃÖ ²ÖÖŸÖ ÛúÖê Ûú‡Ô ²ÖÖ¸ü ‡ÃÖ ÆüÖˆÃÖ ´Öë ˆšüÖμÖÖ ÝÖμÖÖ Æîü, ‡ÃÖ×»Ö‹ μÖÆü•Öºþ¸üß Æîü ×Ûú •Ö»¤ü-ÃÖê-•Ö»¤ü ‡ÃÖÛúÖê ¯Öê¿Ö ×ÛúμÖÖ •ÖÖ‹… ... (¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö) ...MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: I have identified Shri N.K. Singh.SCH-TDB/12.10/1P(1¯Öß/‹ÃÖÃÖß‹“Ö ¯Ö¸ü †ÖÝÖê)ÁÖß ŸÖÖ×¸üÛú †®Ö¾Ö¸ü: ×›ü¯üß “ÖêμÖ¸ü´Öî®Ö ÃÖ¸ü, μÖÆü ×¸ü¯ÖÖêÔü »ÖÝÖ³ÖÝÖ ÃÖÖ¾ÖÔ•Ö×®ÖÛú ÆüÖê “ÖãÛúß Æîü, »Öê×Ûú®ÖˆÃÖê †³Öß ŸÖÛú ¸üÖ•μÖ ÃÖ³ÖÖ Ûêú ¯Öü»Ö ¯Ö¸ü ¸üÜÖÖ ®ÖÆüà ÝÖμÖÖ Æîü †Öî¸ü ‡ÃÖß ¾Ö•ÖÆü ÃÖê μÖÆü †ÃÖÓŸÖÖêÂÖ Æîü...(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö)ÁÖß ˆ¯ÖÃÖ³ÖÖ¯Ö×ŸÖ: ‡ÃÖß×»Ö‹ ´Öï ÛúÆü ¸üÆüÖ ÆæÓü ...(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö) ŸÖÖ×¸üÛú †®Ö¾Ö¸ü •Öß, ´Öï ÛúÆü ¸üÆüÖ ÆæÓü ×Ûú†ÝÖ¸ü †Ö¯ÖÛúÖê ×¸ü¯ÖÖêÔü ¸üÜÖ¾ÖÖ®Öß Æîü, ŸÖÖê †Ö¯Ö ®ÖÖê×üÃÖ ¤üß×•Ö‹ ...(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö) In whatever formwhich is available to you, give a notice. That will be considered, andthen it will be discussed. ...(Interruptions)...SHRIMATI BRINDA KARAT: Sir, we have given the notice so manytime. ...(Interruptions)...MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: There is no notice pending on this issuebefore us. ...(Interruptions)... There is no notice pending before us....(Interruptions)...SHRIMATI BRINDA KARAT: Sir, the Scheduled Castes, Dalits, Muslimsand Christians ...(Interruptions)... their benefit issue is...(Interruptions)...MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: It is just being raised, but there is nostructured notice before the Chair as to in which form you want to raiseit. ...(Interruptions)... There is a form...(Interruptions)...SHRIMATI BRINDA KARAT: Sir, I am just making a point....(Interruptions)...MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Now, I am telling you to give a notice....(Interruptions)...

82Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009ÁÖß †»Öß †®Ö¾Ö¸ü †ÓÃÖÖ¸üß: ÆüÖˆÃÖ “Ö»Ö ¸üÆüÖ Æîü †Öî¸ü ´ÖÓ¡Öß ²ÖÖÆü¸ü ´Öß×›üμÖÖ Ûêú ÃÖÖ´Ö®Öê ²ÖμÖÖ®Ö ¤êü ¸üÆêüÆïü ...(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö)SHRIMATI BRINDA KARAT: Sir, it has been raised in the Zero Hour....(Interruptions)...SHRI N.K. SINGH (BIHAR): Sir, I think that you would very kindly recallthat with your permission, in this very Session, I am not talking now ofthe various other Sessions when this has been repeatedly raised, wehave raised this issue repeatedly at the time when the issue of Mr.Chidambaram's laying the Liberhan Commission Report was beingconsidered. Many of the Members were agitated that this Report of theRanganath Mishra Commission, which is available freely under the RTI,fully printed in newspapers, media debates are going, should be laid onthe Table of the House. Sir, the hon. Minister of State in the PrimeMinister's Office, who was present on that day, seems to have givensome kind of an indication that the Government was taking note of theserious observations which the Members were making for lack ofdisclosure of a Report which is now publicly available. So, I think, it isonly fair, Sir, that you direct the Government that they must come outwith a more coherent response to a matter which is agitating all of us....(Interruptions)...ÁÖß †»Öß †®Ö¾Ö¸ü †ÓÃÖÖ¸üß: ÆüÖˆÃÖ “Ö»Ö ¸üÆüÖ Æîü †Öî¸ü ´ÖÓ¡Öß ²ÖÖÆü¸ü ²ÖÖê»Ö ¸üÆêü Æïü, μÖÆü ÛîúÃÖê “Ö»ÖêÝÖÖ...(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö)ÁÖß †»Öß †®Ö¾Ö¸ü †ÓÃÖÖ¸üß: ÃÖ¸ü μÖÆü ÆüÖˆÃÖ Ûúß †¾Ö´ÖÖ®Ö®ÖÖ ÛúÖ ÃÖ¾ÖÖ»Ö Æîü, ÆüÖˆÃÖ ÛúÖ ´ÖÜÖÖî»Öˆ›ÍüÖμÖÖ •ÖÖ ¸üÆüÖ Æîü ...(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö)MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Unless the report is under the Commissionof Inquiries Act, it is not possible for the Chair to direct the Government

83Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009to lay all the reports which the Government gets. ...(Interruptions)... †Ö¯Ö•Ö¸üÖ ÃÖã×®Ö‹ ®Ö… ...(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö) ¯»Öß•ÖÌ •Ö¸üÖ ´Öê¸üß ²ÖÖŸÖ ÃÖã×®Ö‹… ...(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö) If the report isunder the Commission of Inquiries Act, the Government is duty-bound tolay the report within the stipulated time under the Commission ofInquiries Act. There are several reports which are before theGovernment. And at this stage, I will not be able to say much because Idon't know whether it is under the Commission of Inquiries Act or not. Ifit is under the Commission of Inquiries Act, then, give the notice why theGovernment has not laid the report within six months, as stipulated inthe Act. Then, the Chair will consider it. ...(Interruptions)...SHRIMATI BRINDA KARAT (WEST BENGAL): Sir, may I raise a point?...(Interruptions)... Sir, there are procedures in Parliament in which theChair gives protection to the Members of the House who, across partylines, have raised the issue that the Ranganath Mishra CommissionReport should be laid in Parliament. We may have differences. Theremay be some who say that it should not be implemented, there arethose of us who feel that it should definitely be implemented. But, thepoint is, when public money is being spent, so much time, energy andmoney is spent, all the Members are agitated saying lay it on the Tableof the House, Sir, you can, as the custodian of the interests and therights of all the Members in the House, at least, indicate to theGovernment that it would be appropriate for them to lay the Report onthe Table. ...(Interruptions)... Just examine the matter, Sir....(Interruptions)...MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: The Chair will have to examine it....(Interruptions)... The Chair will examine whether it can issue a direction

84Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009to lay the Report. ...(Interruptions)... I will have to examine it. I cannotsay that...(Interruptions)...ÁÖß ŸÖÖ×¸üÛú †®Ö¾Ö¸ü: μÖÆü ¯Öæ¸êü ÆüÖˆÃÖ Ûúß ³ÖÖ¾Ö®ÖÖ ‡®ÆüÖë®Öê ¸üÜÖß Æîü, †²Ö †Ö¯Ö †¯Ö®Öê «üÖ¸üÖ ‡ÃÖ ¯Ö¸üˆ×“ÖŸÖ ÛúÖμÖÔ¾ÖÖÆüß Ûúß×•Ö‹ ...(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö)ÁÖß ˆ¯ÖÃÖ³ÖÖ¯Ö×ŸÖ: šüßÛú Æîü…SHRI A. VIJAYARAGHAVAN: Sir, the hon. Members have alreadyexpressed their viewpoints. ...(Interruptions)... Let the Report be tabled inthe House. ...(Interruptions)...MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: I hope the Government has taken note of thefeelings of the hon. Members. ...(Interruptions)... It is for the Governmentto react. I cannot give any direction to the Government to lay theReport. ...(Interruptions)...(Followed by 1q-kgg)kgg-psv/1q/12.15MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Let us take up the Calling Attention.(Interruptions)SHRI D. RAJA: Under what Act the Ranganath Misra Commission wasconstituted is not the issue we are challenging. We want... (Interruptions)MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: You are asking the Government to lay thereport. That is the point. (Interruptions)SHRI D. RAJA: You can ask the Government...MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Under what rule can I ask? (Interruptions)SHRIMATI BRINDA KARAT: Sir, ask the Minister to respond.(Interruptions) Just a direction will do. (Interruptions)MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: I would request the hon. Members tomaintain order. The Members' feeling is known to the Government. I

85Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009hope the Government would take note of what the feeling of theMembers is. (Interruptions) ´ÖÓ¡Öß ŒμÖÖ Ûú¸ü ¸üÆêü Æïü? ...(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö)... μÖÆü ÛúÆüÖÑ Æîü?...(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö)... †Ö¯Ö ²ÖÖê»Ö ¸üÆêü Æïü, †Ö¯Ö ®ÖÖê×üÃÖ ¤üß×•Ö‹ ®Ö? ...(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö)... ´ÖÓ¡Öß •Öß ®Öê ²ÖμÖÖ®Ö×¤üμÖÖ Æîü, †Ö¯Ö ®ÖÖê×üÃÖ ¤üß×•Ö‹ ...(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö)...SHRIMATI BRINDA KARAT: No, Sir, that is not enough. (Interruptions)MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Beyond this, I cannot say anything.(Interruptions)The House is adjourned for fifteen minutes.---The House then adjourned at seventeen minutes past twelve of theclock.SSS/1R/12.30The House reassembled at thirty-two minutes past twelve of the clock,MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN in the Chair....MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Let us now take up Calling AttentionMotion.SHRI A. VIJAYARAGHAVAN: Sir, it is a matter of concern. We hadraised the matter. Already the Minister of Minority Affairs has gone tothe television channel and announced that he is going to implement theRanganath Mishra Commission Report.MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Where?SHRI A. VIJAYARAGHAVAN: In the TV channel he did it but in theParliament he is not raising. It is a serious thing. The Minister ofMinority Affairs has gone to the TV channel and announced that he isgoing to implement the...(Interruptions)...MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: When?

86Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009SHRI A. VIJAYARAGHAVAN: Just now. He has gone to the TV studioin the Parliament. Sir, it is a serious thing. The Minister has gone tothe TV studio and announced that he is going to implement therecommendations of the Ranganath Mishra Commission Report. What isthis? (Interruptions) Let the Parliamentary Affairs Minister come here.ÁÖß †»Öß †®Ö¾Ö¸ü †ÓÃÖÖ¸üß : ÆüÖˆÃÖ “Ö»Ö ¸üÆüÖ Æîü †Öî¸ü ×´Ö×®ÖÃü¸ü ²ÖÖÆü¸ü •ÖÖÛú¸ü ²ÖÖê»Ö ¸üÆêüÆïü..(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö)SHRI PENUMALLI MADHU: Look at the darkness. (Interruptions). Sir,you have to protect us. (Interruptions)MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: I don't know...(Interruptions)PROF. P. J. KURIEN: Sir, we have already sent for the ParliamentaryAffairs Minister to be here and give his reaction on this.SHRI A. VIJAYARAGHAVAN: Till then, Sir, you can adjourn the House.Let the Minister come. What is wrong in it? It is a matter of concern ofthe minority community and the backward sections of our society.Naturally,...PROF. P. J. KURIEN: You allow the business to resume. The Ministerwill come. Sir, the Parliamentary Affairs Minister will be...MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: He will be coming and then we can take itup.SHRI A. VIJAYARAGHAVAN: It is a matter of concern and related tothe minority community and the backward sections of our society.PROF. P. J. KURIEN: Please allow the business to resume. TheParliamentary Affairs Minister will be coming.SHRI A. VIJAYARAGHAVAN: How can it be possible?

87Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: He will be coming and, then, we will take itup.PROF. P. J. KURIEN: Sir, the Parliamentary Affairs Minister will becoming soon. Let him allow the business to resume.SHRI A. VIJAYARAGHAVAN: Sir, it is a matter of concern and relatedto the millions of people in this country belonging to the minority andbackward community. Let the Minister come and assure the Housewhen they are going to lay the Report on the table of the House. Whenis he going to come? (Interruptions)MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: He has come. (Interruptions)ÁÖß ˆ¯ÖÃÖ³ÖÖ¯Ö×ŸÖ : †Ö¯Ö ²Öî×šü‹… ..(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö).. †Ö¯Ö ²Öî×šü‹ ®Ö… ..(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö)(followed by NBR/1S)-SSS/NBR-AKA/1S/12.35.SHRI N.K. SINGH: Mr. Minister, at least, you could have informed usfirst...(Interruptions)...You could have informed the House first...(Interruptions)...We are told that you have made some commentsabout the Report on some TV channel...You inform us first...(Interruptions)...MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: The House is agitated about non-laying ofthe Ranganath Misra Commission Report on the Table. The Report hasbeen published in some newspaper. This matter has been raised in theHouse two or three times...(Interruptions)...One minute. One minute...(Interruptions)...Since the hon. Minister was not there, I am justexplaining...(Interruptions)...Not briefing...(Interruptions)...

88Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009THE MINISTER OF STATE (INDEPENDENT CHARGE) OF THEMINISTRY OF MINORITY AFFAIRS (SHRI SALMAN KHURSHEED): Mr.Deputy Chairman, Sir, I am grateful that the hon. Members haveexpressed their concern, desire and anxiety to see the Report. To tellyou the truth, Sir, the matter is under consideration of the Government.We had said so. There was also a requirement under the RTI. Wewere asked to disclose it under the RTI. The matter is before the HighCourt. So, it is sub judice. We have told to High Court exactly thesame thing. The matter is being considered actively by the Government.As soon as the Government takes a decision, we will bring it before theHouse. There is no question of not brining it before the House.SHRI SABIR ALI: Sir, this is not the matter. We are asking theGovernment to lay the Report on the Table of the House...(Interruptions)...We want the hon. Minister to lay it on the Table of theHouse...(Interruptions)...MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: What is that you want? ...(Interruptions)...Please sit down...(Interruptions)...SHRI SABIR ALI: Sir, the hon. Minister is delaying the matter...(Interruptions)...We are asking as to when the Report would be laid onthe Table of the House...(Interruptions)...MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: You see, the Minister has said that thematter is under consideration of the Government...(Interruptions)...Icannot go beyond that...(Interruptions)...No, no...(Interruptions)...Mr. SabirAli, please go to your seat...(Interruptions)...The point is, you wantedresponse from the Government and the Government has responded.The matter ends there.

89Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009SHRI RAVI SHANKAR PRASAD: Sir, when is the hon. Minister going toplace it on the Table of the House?...(Interruptions)...At least, thatassurance the hon. Minister can give...(Interruptions)...SHRI A. VIJAYARAGHAVAN: Sir, at least, this assurance has to begiven to the House...(Interruptions)...MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: The point is, you wanted the response of theGovernment and the Government has responded...(Interruptions)...Thematter ends there...(Interruptions)...SHRI A. VIJAYARAGHAVAN: He can give an assurance to theHouse...(Interruptions)...MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: This will be discussed it in the BusinessAdvisory Committee...(Interruptions)...Let us continue with the Business...(Interruptions)...SHRI SALMAN KHURSHEED: Sir, the House still has to debate anearlier Report of a very great importance. The other House is debatingit...(Interruptions)...What is the hurry?...(Interruptions)...First we willdiscuss the Liberahan Report...(Interruptions)...SHRI SABIR ALI: Sir, the hon. Minister is misleading the House...(Interruptions)...MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Hon. Members, you wanted response of theGovernment. The Government has responded. Now, let us take up theCalling Attention...(Interruptions)...The present status of the W.T.O.negotiations, Shri Moinul Hassan...(Interruptions)...ÁÖß †»Öß †®Ö¾Ö¸ü †ÓÃÖÖ¸üß : μÖÆüÖÓ ²ÖÖê»Ö®Öê ´Öë †Ö¯ÖÛúÖê ŒμÖÖ ×¤üŒÛúŸÖ Æîü ..(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö).. †Ö¯Ö ²ÖŸÖÖ¤üß×•Ö‹ ÆüÖ‰úÃÖ ´Öë… ..(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö)..

90Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: I have already called him...(Interruptions)..Ihave already taken up...(Interruptions)...What is the matter? †Ö¯Ö ²Öî×šü‹…..(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö)..†ÓÃÖÖ¸üß ÃÖÖÆü²Ö, †Ö¯Ö ²Öî×šü‹… ..(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö)..SHRIMATI JAYA BACHCHAN (UTTAR PRADESH): Sir, the reply givenby the hon. Minister is the same that was given by hon. Minister whowas in-charge of this portfolio. We are hearing the same thing again.We want that this Report be placed by tomorrow. Please. You cannotsay it is not possible. You cannot keep on postponing it for yearstogether. Whom are you supporting? Whom do you want to cover?This is not fair. We have been asking in the House and the hon.Minister for laying the Report. His predecessor had said the same thing.Now, he is saying the same thing. We are not ready to listen the samething for the second time.(Ends)SHRI RAVI SHANKAR PRASAD (BIHAR): Sir, we have a different,distinct view about this issue. But, I am raising only one thing. I sawthe hon. Minister on a channel in question. He said, 'within six months Iam going to bring it.' Is it fair on his part, when the Session is goingon, to make this kind of a policy statement on a TV channel...(Interruptions)...This is a very fundamental issue...(Interruptions)...Thehon. Minister may kindly explain this to the House...(Interruptions)...SHRI SALMAN KHURSHEED: Sir, I need to explain to my learnedfriend. My learned friend has been I & B Minister. He should watchtelevision a little more carefully. We were being asked whether in ourManifesto...(Interruptions)...

91Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009SHRI RAVI SHANKAR PRASAD: I have seen and listened to every wordof yours, Mr. Minister.SHRI SALMAN KHURSHEED: You cannot force words into my mouth.We have very clearly said in our Manifesto that we are going to take aview on OBC Lists, which includes OBC Minority people. Sir, you knowKarnataka model and Kerala, Tamil Nadu and Andhra Pradesh models.We have committed to this model in our Manifesto.(CONTD. BY PB "1T")-NBR/PB/1T/12.40SHRI SALMAN KHURSHEED (CONTD.): Nothing has been said aboutthis Report. I can get my learned friend a copy of the CD. If he hadonly watched carefully, he would have known that I cannot and will notsay anything on the Report because I do understand some parliamentaryprocedures as well. ...(Interruptions)...MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: He has clarified. ...(Interruptions)... He hasclarified. ...(Interruptions)... He has clarified. ...(Interruptions)... He hasclarified, please. ...(Interruptions)...SHRI SABIR ALI: Sir, through you, I would like to put only onequestion. My question is, whether they are going to table the Report ornot?MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: You see, they have said, 'it is underconsideration.' Now, whether they do it or not, I cannot say....(Interruptions)...SHRI SABIR ALI: You should ask. ...(Interruptions)... You should ask,when will it be done? ...(Interruptions)...

92Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: No; no ...(Interruptions)... Now, Mr. MoinulHassan. ...(Interruptions)... Mr. Moinul Hassan. ...(Interruptions)... Mr.Moinul Hassan, call the attention of the Minister. ...(Interruptions)... Callthe attention of the Minister. ...(Interruptions)..CALLING ATTENTION ON THE PRESENT STATUS OFW.T.O. NEGOTIATIONSSHRI MOINUL HASSAN (WEST BENGAL): Sir, I beg to call theattention of the Minister of Commerce and Industry to the present statusof the WTO Negotiations. ...(Interruptions)...THE MINISTER OF COMMERCE AND INDUSTRY (SHRI ANANDSHARMA): Mr. Deputy Chairman, Sir, the Doha Round of tradenegotiations at the World Trade Organisation (WTO) has been underwaysince 2001. The years 2007 and 2008 saw intensive discussions andconsiderable progress on many elements of the Agriculture and nonagriculturalmarket access (NAMA) modalities. (These include theformulae and methodology for cutting tariffs on agricultural and industrialgoods, reducing domestic subsidies in agriculture, phasing out exportsubsidies as well as the contours of flexibilities/exemptions from tariffcuts on both agricultural and industrial goods.)The July 2008 WTO Mini Ministerial meeting ended without anyagreement on some key issues like special safeguard mechanism (SSM)in agriculture and sectoral initiatives in NAMA.Following the impasse at the July 2008 mini-Ministerial, membersexpressed the need for an early resumption of talks. Based onsubsequent discussions, the Chairs of the Agriculture and NAMA

93Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009Negotiating Groups brought out revised draft modalities on 6 December 2008.The draft modalities are available at the WTO site too.India has always been a strong protagonist of the multilateral tradingsystem. We have consistently maintained that an early conclusion of the DohaRound is in our best interests.Going by the commitment expressed by world leaders at internationalmeetings for an early conclusion of the Doha Round, India took the initiativeto re-energise the on-going discussions, by holding an informal MinisterialMeeting during September, 2009. The meeting signalled considerable politicalenthusiasm for an early conclusion of the Doha Round.Discussions at the WTO have been resumed at the Senior Officials'level on technical requirements and modalities.The 7 th WTO Ministerial meeting was held in Geneva from 30thNovember-3rd December, 2009. The general theme for discussion was "TheWTO, the Multilateral Trading System and the Current Global EconomicEnvironment."The Conference was not a substantive negotiating round but a platformfor Ministers to review the functioning of WTO, including the Doha Round,and to discuss issues such as monitoring and surveillance of disputes,accessions, Aid for Trade, technical assistance and internationalgovernance.The main negotiating issues and the key elements from India'sperspective in the Doha Round are to honour the development dimension;protecting the interest of poor farmers and industry and seeking greatermarket opportunities for its farmers and industry.India has been engaging with its coalition partners to ensure thatIndia's key interests are maintained.(Ends)

94Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Yes, Mr. Moinul Hassan; you have sevenminutes.SHRI MOINUL HASSAN (WEST BENGAL): Sir, the 7 th WTO Ministerialmeeting was held in Geneva from 30 th November to 3 rd December, 2009.Sir, the main theme of the discussion was "The WTO, the MultilateralTrading System and the Current Global Economic Environment".Sir, my point is, the Ministerial meeting was held at the backdropof the global economic crisis which has led to a collapse in global trade.According to the WTO estimates, the global trade has seen at least 9per cent decline in 2009. Our country is not out of the purview of thiscrisis.(Contd. by 1u/SKC)1u/12.45/skcSHRI MOINUL HASSAN (Contd.): So, every citizen wants to know howwe protect our interests in different areas, particularly, agriculture andemployment-intensive small-scale industries.Sir, WTO consists of various negotiating groups in Geneva, and,as I understand, they are carrying out negotiations in a non-transparentmanner. They believe that India has substantially moved away from itsearlier position, particularly, in agriculture. May I know from the hon.Minister, what the message of the WTO talks is to the farmingcommunity of our country, especially the small peasantry engaged inlargely rain-fed agriculture? So far as industrial tariff is concerned, due tothe present economic recession, our employment intensive industries liketextile, leather garments, leather goods, gems and jewellery, havealready faced a devastating effect. What have we done to protect our

95Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009indigenous industry when developed countries are trying to open newmarkets for their flagging industry?Sir, we are all aware of the WTO talks. The two sides appearunwilling to offer concession over agricultural subsidies and industrialproducts. That has caused an eight-year stalemate. In his interview afterthe conclusion of the mini-Ministerial meeting, the Minister was quiteoptimistic and said, "It has narrowed". What is the situation after themini-Ministerial talks so far? Sir, after the meeting, which was heldrecently, the United States called on developing countries to make"meaningful market opening". But Brazil said that it is "unreasonable".May I know our country's opinion? What is the Ministry's opinion? Whatis India's opinion? Ultimately what action was taken by WTO?Sir, the other point that I would like to make in response to thereply given by the hon. Minister is about the basic structure of WTO.The WTO is now behaving like an arbitrator and promoter of free trade.It should be an advisory council to plan the foreign trade system in sucha manner as to protect the interests of all, especially the developingcountries. What is the Government doing to channelize WTO's efforts inthat direction?Lastly, Sir, farmers' control over seed is the basic necessity forfood security and biodiversity. But this may be lost by the patent lawsand new seed laws. Would the Government think about it and protectour country's interest?(Ends)SHRI N.K. SINGH (BIHAR): Sir, I think the Minister for Commerce issomewhat lucky, because, fortunately, the moments of inconvenient truthwill be confronted by his colleague in Copenhagen, and not in Geneva,

96Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009not for what he has done or not done, but because, perhaps, theunemployment rates in the United States being very high, and withObama's distractions with climate change and health issues, it wouldtake the heat off him for a little while, and for a little while, perhaps,Copenhagen would be warmer and hotter than Geneva! Having said this,Sir, there is the Doha Round and the way in which we are going is aquagmire. And the Minister must pull India out of this quagmire in whichwe have landed ourselves. What is this quagmire, Sir? It arises out offour critical issues. The first critical issue is, why, in the negotiatingpriority, did we fail to accord services the highest priority as comparedto industrial tariffs and agriculture?(Contd. by hk/1w)HK/1w/12.50SHRI N.K. SINGH (CONTD.): We know that tariffs on industry arealready quite low. So, the advantages which we will get would benominal. We also know that given our limited export capability onagriculture, we would have limited advantage in terms of agriculture.Why, therefore, has the services sector -- where India has such anenormous comparative advantage in terms of movement of naturalpersons -- been accorded a much lower priority than issues ofagriculture and issues of industry? Would the Minister considerreversing this priority to be able to accord to services the priority itdeserves?

97Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009My second important question, Sir, is: Why has India agreed to aformula for reduction of non-agricultural tariffs which has minimised ourbargaining advantage that we had by virtue of unilateral and autonomousliberalisation which we have pursued since Doha Round 2001? You areaware of the fact, Sir, that the Doha Round is about improving access.India had unilaterally decided to cut its tariffs very, very significantly fromthe time even when the Doha Round began to today when peak tariffshave been brought down from 50 per cent to no more than 15 per cent.India failed to get reciprocal advantages by some form of concessions inthe market of developed countries. Far from converting these tariffsreally into base tariffs, we are on the reverse being asked to furtherlower these tariffs and to engage in negotiations with the United States,particularly on products which are of special interests to them under thegarb of harmonisation or special interest category.So, my second question to the Minister is: Would he redress thebalance in terms of having accepted a coefficient formula, the so-calledSwiss formula, which Minister does not give us the advantage ofbecause the burden is against us? We have already agreed unilaterallyto a whole slew of reduction and we have not got any reciprocaladvantage from the countries in terms of access to their markets. So,would you wish to reverse the negotiating strategy to bring greaterbalance?My third question, Sir, is that in the negotiations on agricultureitself, India has not pressed hard enough on the proposals fordisciplining the so-called green-box subsidies as decoupled incomesupport which is being widely used, if I may say so, widely abused, by

98Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009countries in the European community. We know that although this isabout improved market access, there is a category, Sir, which you allknow, called the green-box which is kept exempt from the application oftariff reduction. Several things are being put in the Green box. What thedeveloped countries are doing is, they are using the Green box byintroducing elements as decoupled income realising that you cannothave decoupled income divorced from production processes, divorcedfrom product processes and seek the advantage which, in the long run,would prove very distortionary and inject a degree of volatility on supportfor agriculture. Even though 80 per cent of the tax on agriculture hasbeen agreed, would the hon. Minister redo and revisit the Green box,particularly bring in greater discipline and eliminate what I call thisparticular income support measure by backdoor in which they will beprotecting ourselves and our agriculture would have been left vulnerable?My fourth question, Sir, is related to the recent proposal which wemade to the Secretariat in July 2009. It is ironic and I will seek yoursubmission to read what the proposal was. The proposal which wemade for restructuring the WTO was going to invest the Secretariat ofthe WTO with vast authorities over and above what is being proposedfor member countries. This is what we said in our July 2009 proposal.We said that "India will favour an arrangement for monitoring of recentdevelopments and members on trade disciplines would be covered bythe Committee based on compilation by the Secretariat or developmentsbetween formal meetings and verified by the members concerned." Ifthis proposal was to be accepted, then the initiative for policing theWTO rules will pass from the hands of members to the hands of the

99Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009Secretariat, which is, certainly, not a very desirable outcome. Finally,Sir, I think the Minister needs to address himself to one critical issue.KSK/12.55/1X(Contd. by 1x/KSK)SHRI N.K. SINGH (CONTD): We have been taught in ElementaryEconomics by Watson that trade is an engine of growth; trade fostersmultiplier effects in income gains; trade fosters reduction of poverty.The instrument of WTO today is being abused against developingcountries. Sometimes, they raise the issue of labour standards. Today,the most favourite thing is raising the issue of Carbon tax to misuse theinstrument of trade as a new instrument of exploitation. Would the hon.Minister assure the House that integrity of what the WTO, which ismeant for being principally a trade body, does not get diverted into theexploitation of emerging economies like ours under the pretext of newsubterranean kinds of influences on labour, climate change, and otherthings which come under the fanciful and more fashionable purview ofthe more major economies of the world? Sir, we would like a finalassurance that trade which we are pursuing, liberalisation which we arepursuing, will remain an engine of growth and engine of povertyreduction and not be converted into a new organ for the exploitation ofnew emerging markets like India.(Ends)MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: There is an announcement to be made bythe hon. Minister.

100Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009STATEMENT RE: DECODING OF HUMAN GENOME BYINDIAN SCIENTISTSTHE MINISTER OF STATE (INDEPENDENT CHARGE) OF THEMINISTRY OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY (SHRI PRITHVIRAJCHAVAN): Sir, I am happy to inform the august House that theScientists of the Council of Scientific and Industrial Research (CSIR),working at the Institute of Genomics and Integrative Biology (IGIB), forthe first time, have successfully decoded the full human genome in India.Sir, the first human genome sequence in the world was a result ofInternational Human Genome Project comprising of scientists of sixcountries. This large collaborative Project began in 1990, and thesequencing was completed in 2003. This spectacular feat, at that time,was hailed equivalent to the man landing on the moon. India could notbe part of this initiative in early 1990s because of resource constraints.With the completion of first few human genomes sequence in India, weare now in the league of few selected countries like the United States,the United Kingdom, China, Canada and Korea. Scientists at CSIRcould achieve this feat by adopting new technology and by effectivelyintegrating complex computational and bioinformatics tools with highthroughput analytical capability using super-computers. The sequencingof first human genome in India, therefore, sets the stage for India's entryinto the elite club which will open up new possibilities in diagnostics,treatment and low-cost affordable healthcare in future for the masses.(Ends)

101Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009CALLING ATTENTION ON THE PRESENT STATUS OFWTO NEGOTIATIONS (CONTD.)THE LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION (SHRI ARUN JAITLEY): Sir, theDoha round almost stands stalemated. In my view, Sir, there are fewbasic reasons that this appears to be happening. Sir, there are threechanges which have taken place over the last one decade in the globaltrade negotiations. Initially, the trade negotiations were essentially drivenby the developed world. Today, there is a change of imbalance ofpower. Today, the developing countries, particularly after the formationof several groups like G-20, have also acquired a say in the functioningof the WTO and in the negotiations. So, the balance of power itself hasslightly altered. The second is a change in the global economy whichhas taken place that across the world, consumers prefer to buy servicesand goods which are cheaper and are of the best quality. Therefore,instead of the developed world, the balance with regard to services andwith regard to goods is now tilting in favour of low-cost economies. Asa result of this, we get some obvious advantages. The third, Sir, is achange in the agenda also. Initially, the agenda in relation to agriculturewas market access. And, today, it is being counter-balanced by thewhole suggestion that there cannot be market access; trade distortionsin form of trade distorting subsidies are reduced, rationalised and someof them even finally eliminated. Sir, Mr. N.K. Singh put a very relevantquestion with regard to the state of negotiations in the services sector.Now, this is one sector in which India is capable of providing the worldwith a very large number of low-cost services, both in the matter ofmovement of natural persons and also in the matters relating to various

102Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009other forms of services, including outsourcing etc. Now, the servicenegotiations, instead of being multilateral, are either bilateral orplurilateral, for which offers and responses are going on. Obviously, itappears that the developed world is not very keen, as far as the pace ofthese negotiations is concerned. In the services sector, they are keenessentially on areas like financial services, retail being opened up, andthere is a conscious go-slow as far as these areas of keen interest toIndia are concerned.(continued by 1y - gsp)GSP-MCM-1Y-1.00SHRI ARUN JAITLEY (CONTD.): So, my first query to the Minister is:what is the position of negotiations as far as the services sector,particularly, in these areas is concerned.Secondly, Sir, agriculture is of key interest to us for the reasonthat more than sixty per cent of India is employed, or, even, underemployed, as far as agriculture is concerned. Now, the agriculturalnegotiations have virtually been stalemated, and, today, the key to theentire pace of movement in the WTO is such that the manufacturingsector, the NAMA negotiations, the services negotiations are not movingbecause agricultural negotiations are stalemated. And, the reason whyagricultural negotiations is stalemated is that unless the subsidies arerationalised, some of them completely eliminated, and, some of themsubstantially reduced, there can't be a level-playing field. We cannotexpect our subsistence farmer to compete with the highly subsidisedfarmer who gets almost a billion dollars a day from the developedeconomies in the world towards his subsidisation; his products are going

103Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009to be much cheaper than ours, and, will, obviously, push us out of themarket.Now, as far as the subsidies are concerned, various proposals arethere. The Minister in his statement has said, "the negotiating groupsbrought out a revised modality on 6 th December, 2008". I have two fearsas far as the blanks in these drafts are concerned. And, my twoquestions in this area relate to these blanks. Firstly, Sir, as far as thesubsidies are concerned, even though there is a broad consensusbuilding up that the export subsidies should be finally eliminated, withregard to the other form of subsidies, it is not the green box subsidies,which are going unregulated in the name of environment protection andlivestock protection, even the amber box and the blue box subsidies,there is a lot of box-shifting which is taking place in the variousproposals. And, the net consequence is going to be that the amount ofmoney which goes into the pocket of the farmer in the developedcountries substantially will not come down over the next decade ormore, and, if in the hope of this being somewhat altered because of thedrafts, and, the actual money not coming down, we open our marketsto agriculture, the consequence will be an inflow of agricultural productsfrom all over the world, which our farmers will not compete with. Even ifwe keep our tariffs high, Sir, any surplus, if we have, will not be able toget into the global market, will be dumped into our own markets, and,therefore, will depress our markets. So, in either case, the subsidisedagriculture, whether it enters our markets or not, is destructive of theinterests of the Indian farmer. Therefore, what is the specific proposalwhich you have, and, what is the kind of figure, in relation to each of

104Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009these areas of subsidy, which the Government of India thinking ofputting across as far as the negotiations are concerned.Sir, the second question on agriculture is equally important, and,the question is, what is the proposal on the table to reduce the customstariffs on various agricultural products as far as the developed and thedeveloping countries are concerned? Sir, India has an approximately692-odd tariff lines, unless the figure has now somewhat altered. Now,these changes are going to be brought about in the duty-structures onthe bound rates. If we go by the figures -- which we are now reading,particularly, in the international media -- of reduction of approximately30-odd per cent as far as countries like India is concerned, on howmany of our tariff lines, will our bound rates come down in comparisonto our present applied rates. If many of them in the Doha Round getprotected, the real danger will then arise in the post-Doha Round, thatis, the next round, where the figure, instead of 70 - 80 products, willprobably reach 200 or 300 products. I mean, India is an economy,where even if in relation to five products, the farmer gets distressed bythe inflow of foreign goods, then, his own goods, the pricing getsdistressed, then, it is lakhs of farmers or millions of farmers in each tariffline, who are going to be adversely affected.Lastly, Sir, what is the state of negotiations as far as the NAMAnegotiations are concerned, or, is it completely stalemated without anyprogress at all?Finally, Sir, before I conclude, I just want to give one suggestionto the hon. Minister. There have been in different areas of governance,several illustrations -- Mr. Singh referred to the climate change

105Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009negotiations, I am not repeating our position on that -- where we seemto be getting pressured by the developed world.GS-SK/1Z/1.05(Contd. by sk-1z)SHRI ARUN JAITLEY (CONTD.): As far as trade is concerned, foreignpolicy and trade policy never makes together. You may be the best offriends with certain countries but your trading interests, Sir, always atvariance with them. Europe and United States are litigating against eachother as far as the WTO is concerned. So, my suggestion to theMinister would be that please keep the current close proximity and theforeign policy emanating out of that and the pressure emanating out ofthat away as far as India's trading policy is concerned. Thank you.(Ends)SHRI M.V. MYSURA REDDY (ANDHRA PRADESH): Thank you, Sir.As everybody knows, in these negotiations, the United States is theimportant player. But they are negotiating without any Fast TrackAuthority from their Congress or Parliament. They are going onnegotiating for their advantage. As our learned colleague, N.K. Singh,said, the major portion of the subsidies are in the Green Box. Thesesubsidies are non-negotiable. If it is so, how the Indian farmer gets alevel-playing field in the international market?The second thing I understand is that the USA is pressurising forincreasing the safeguard in agriculture up to 20 per cent. I think, it isalmost accepted or going to be accepted at around 5 per cent. I wouldlike the hon. Minister to explain India's position on this.

106Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009In the industrial sector and also in the chemicals andpharmaceuticals sector, I understand, they are requesting for reducingthe customs duty to zero per cent. Once it is done, their products willflood our market and our chemicals and pharmaceutical sector will belargely hit. So, what is the Government planning to protect thesesectors?Then, Sir, the Geneva Meeting is also over. But, still there is a lotof confusion about the negotiations, what is happening in thenegotiations. I request the Minister to publish a White Paper on what ishappening in the negotiations.Then, Sir, the Government has to educate the Indian farmer aboutthe pros and cons of these negotiations and about the WTO outcome. Iwould like to know from the Minister the steps taken by the Governmentto empower the agriculturists. Thank you.(Ends)MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Mr. Amar Singh, you just wanted tointervene because somebody else is speaking from your Party.ÁÖß †´Ö¸ü ØÃÖÆü (ˆ¢Ö¸ü ¯ÖÏ¤êü¿Ö) : ¬Ö®μÖ¾ÖÖ¤ü ˆ¯ÖÃÖ³ÖÖ¯Ö×ŸÖ ´ÖÆüÖê¤üμÖ… ´Öï ŸÖÖê ‡ŸÖ®ÖÖ Æüß ÛúÆæÓüÝÖÖ ×Ûú μÖÆü´Öê¸üÖ ÃÖÖî³ÖÖÝμÖ Æîü ×Ûú ‡¬Ö¸ü ¾ÖÖ×ÞÖ•μÖ ´ÖÓ¡Öß •Öß ²Öîšêü Æïü, ´Öê¸êü ¯Öß”êû ÁÖß ‹®Ö0Ûêú0 ØÃÖÆü ¯Öæ¾ÖÔ ¾ÖÖ×ÞÖ•μÖÃÖ×“Ö¾Ö ²Öîšêü Æïü †Öî¸ü ®ÖêŸÖÖ ¯ÖÏ×ŸÖ¯ÖõÖ Æü´ÖÖ¸êü ×´Ö¡Ö ÁÖß †¹ýÞÖ •Öêü»Öß ¯Öæ¾ÖÔ ¾ÖÖ×ÞÖ•μÖ ´ÖÓ¡Öß ²Öîšêü Æïü,‡ÃÖ×»Ö‹ ÃÖ¤ü®Ö ÛúÖê ÝÖã´Ö¸üÖÆü ®ÖÆüà ×ÛúμÖÖ •ÖÖ ÃÖÛúŸÖÖ Æîü… ÃÖ³Öß ¾ÖÖ×ÞÖ•μÖ ×¾Ö¿ÖêÂÖóÖ μÖÆüÖÓ ¯Ö¸ü ²Öîšêü Æãü‹Æïü… ´Öï ×ÃÖ±Ôú ‡ŸÖ®ÖÖ Æüß ÛúÆü®ÖÖ “ÖÖÆüŸÖÖ ÆæÓü ×Ûú Æü´Ö®Öê ÃÖ“Ö´Öã“Ö ´Öë "¾ÖÃÖã¤îü¾Ö Ûãúãü´²ÖÛú´Ö" ÛúÖê ²ÖÆãüŸÖÝÖÓ³Öß¸üŸÖÖ ÃÖê »Öê ×»ÖμÖÖ Æîü… Æü´Ö ³ÖÖ¸üŸÖ Ûêú ®ÖÖÝÖ×¸üÛú Ûú´Ö †Öî¸ü ×¾ÖÀ¾Ö Ûêú ®ÖÖÝÖ×¸üÛú •μÖÖ¤üÖ ÆüÖê ÝÖ‹Æïü, “ÖÖÆêü ¾ÖÆü ‹×¿ÖμÖ®Ö ÛúÖ ´ÖÖ´Ö»ÖÖ ÆüÖê, ˆÃÖ´Öë ³Öß Æü´Ö®Öê Ûêú¸ü»Ö Ûêú ¸ü²Ö›Íü †Öî¸ü ÛúÖò±úß Ûêú ×ÛúÃÖÖ®ÖÖëÛúß Ø“ÖŸÖÖ ®ÖÆüà Ûúß, ”æûü ¯Ö¸ü ”æûü ¤êü ¤üß, “ÖÖÆêü WTO ÛúÖ ´ÖÖ´Ö»ÖÖ ÆüÖê… ´Öï ²ÖÆãüŸÖ ²Öã×¨ü´ÖÖ®Ö ¾μÖ×ŒŸÖ®ÖÆüà ÆæÓü, ‡ÃÖ×»Ö‹ ´ÖãôÖê ¯ÖŸÖÖ ®ÖÆüà Æîü ×Ûú μÖÆü ÝÖÏß®Ö ²ÖÖòŒÃÖ Æîü μÖÖ ¸êü›ü ²ÖÖòŒÃÖ Æîü, ŒμÖÖ Æîü, ˆÃÖ´Öë

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108Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009×¾Ö¹ý¨ü Æïü… ŒμÖÖë×Ûú ¾ÖîÀ¾ÖßÛú¸üÞÖ †Öî¸ü WTO Ûúß ®Öß×ŸÖμÖÖë Ûêú »ÖÖÝÖæ ×Ûú‹ •ÖÖ®Öê Ûêú ²ÖÖ¤ü ÃÖê Æüß¤ü×õÖÞÖ ‹×¿ÖμÖÖ ´Öë †´Öß¸üß †Öî¸ü ÝÖ¸üß²Öß Ûúß ÜÖÖ‡Ô †Öî¸ü “ÖÖî›Íüß ÆüÖê ÝÖ‡Ô Æîü… UNDP Ûêú †®ÖãÃÖÖ¸üOECD Ûúê ¤êü¿Ö ‹Ûú ×¤ü®Ö ´Öë ‹Ûú †¸ü²Ö ›üÖ»Ö¸ü Ûúß ÃÖ×²ÃÖ›üß ¤êüŸÖê Æïü… Ûéú×ÂÖ ÃÖÆüÖμÖŸÖÖ ¯Ö¸üOECD «üÖ¸üÖ ×Ûú‹ ÝÖ‹ ¾μÖμÖ ÛúÖ 50 ±úßÃÖ¤üß μÖæ¸üÖê¯ÖßμÖ ¤êü¿ÖÖë ´Öë †Öî¸ü »ÖÝÖ³ÖÝÖ 40 ±úßÃÖ¤üß •ÖÖ¯ÖÖ®Ö´ÖêÓ ¾μÖμÖ ×ÛúμÖÖ •ÖÖŸÖÖ Æîü… †´Öê×¸üÛúÖ ´Öë Ûéú×ÂÖ ÃÖÆüÖμÖŸÖÖ 2 †²Ö¸ü ÃÖê ²ÖœÍüÛú¸ü 28 †¸ü²Ö ›üÖ»Ö¸ü ÆüÖêÝÖ‡Ô Æîü… μÖÆü ¾ÖÃŸÖã×Ã£Ö×ŸÖ Æîü, ‡ÃÖ×»Ö‹ •ÖÖê ÃÖ´ÖÖ“ÖÖ¸ü¯Ö¡ÖÖë ´Öë ÜÖ²Ö¸ü ”û¯Öß Æîü, ´Öï ˆÃÖÛêú ²ÖÖ¸êü ´Öë´ÖÖ®Ö®ÖßμÖ ´ÖÓ¡Öß •Öß ÃÖê •ÖÖ®Ö®ÖÖ “ÖÖÆüŸÖÖ ÆæÓü †Öî¸ü ´Öï ˆÃÖê ÛúÖêü ³Öß Ûú¸ü®ÖÖ “ÖÖÆüŸÖÖ ÆæÓü,"Actually, WTO Chief Pascal Lamy is right when he said at theinaugural of the ongoing WTO mini-Ministerial meet in New Delhiyesterday that 80 per cent of the issues of the Doha round have beenresolved. He was telling the truth. What remains is merely thetightening of the nuts and bolts of the agreement." ´Öï ´ÖÖ®Ö®ÖßμÖ ´ÖÓ¡Öß •Öß ÃÖê μÖÆü¯Öæ”û®ÖÖ “ÖÖÆüŸÖÖ ÆæÓü ×Ûú •ÖÖê Lamy ÃÖÖÆü²Ö ÛúÖ ²ÖμÖÖ®Ö Æîü, ‡ÃÖ´Öë ×ÛúŸÖ®Öß ÃÖ““ÖÖ‡Ô Æîü †Öî¸ü ˆÃÖ¾ÖÃŸÖã×Ã£Ö×ŸÖ ÃÖê ÃÖ¤ü®Ö ÛúÖê ³Öß †¾ÖÝÖŸÖ Ûú¸üÖ‹Ó? ŒμÖÖë×Ûú ¤êü¿Ö ´Öë μÖÆü ³ÖÖ¾Ö®ÖÖ ²ÖÆãüŸÖ ¯ÖÏ²Ö»Ö ÆüÖêŸÖß •ÖÖ¸üÆß Æîü †Öî¸ü •ÖîÃÖÖ ×Ûú ´ÖÖ®Ö®ÖßμÖ ÁÖß †´Ö¸ü ØÃÖÆü ®Öê †¯Ö®Öß ¿ÖÓÛúÖ ¾μÖŒŸÖ Ûúß Æîü ×Ûú ³ÖÖ¸üŸÖ ÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸üÛúß •μÖÖ¤üÖ ¤ü×¸üμÖÖ×¤ü»Öß Ûêú ÛúÖ¸üÞÖ, •ÖÖê ³ÖÖ¸üŸÖ Ûêú ×ÛúÃÖÖ®Ö Æïü, ˆ®ÖÛúÖ ®ÖãÛúÃÖÖ®Ö ÆüÖê ¸üÆüÖ Æîü ŸÖ£ÖÖ³ÖÖ¸üŸÖ Ûêú ¾ÖÖ×ÞÖ•μÖ ‹¾ÖÓ ¾μÖÖ¯ÖÖ¸ü ÛúÖ ³Öß ®ÖãÛúÃÖÖ®Ö ÆüÖê ¸üÆüÖ Æîü… †Ö¯Ö •ÖÖ®ÖŸÖê Æïü ×Ûú μÖæ¸üÖê¯Ö Ûêú×¾ÖÛú×ÃÖŸÖ ¤êü¿Ö ×ÛúÃÖ ¯ÖÏÛúÖ¸ü Ûúß protectionism Ûú¸ü ¸üÆêü Æïü, ¾Öê †¯Ö®ÖÖ ´ÖÖ»Ö ŸÖÖê Æü´ÖÖ¸êü ²ÖÖ•ÖÖ¸ü´Öë ³Öê•Ö®ÖÖ “ÖÖÆüŸÖê Æïü, ¾Öê Æü´ÖÖ¸êü ²ÖÖ•ÖÖ¸ü ÛúÖê ÜÖã»ÖÖ ¸üÜÖ®ÖÖ “ÖÖÆüŸÖê Æïü… †ÝÖ¸ü ˆ®ÖÛúÖê ¯ÖîÃÖÖ μÖÆüÖÓ †ÖÃÖÛúŸÖÖ Æîü, ˆ®ÖÛúß ¯ÖæÓ•Öß †Ö ÃÖÛúŸÖß Æîü, ŸÖÖê Æü´ÖÖ¸êü »ÖÖêÝÖ ¾ÖÆüÖÓ ¯Ö¸ü •ÖÖÛú¸ü ŒμÖÖë ®ÖÆüà ÛúÖ´Ö Ûú¸üÃÖÛúŸÖê Æïü? Æü´Ö †¯Ö®Öß ÃÖê¾ÖÖ ˆ®ÖÛúÖê ŒμÖÖë ˆ¯Ö»Ö²¬Ö ®ÖÆüà Ûú¸üÖ ÃÖÛúŸÖê Æïü? ‡ÃÖÛêú ×»Ö‹ ¾Öê ŸÖîμÖÖ¸ü®ÖÆüà Æïü, ‡ÃÖ×»Ö‹ ×•ÖÃÖ ¯ÖÏÛúÖ¸ü Ûúß μÖê ÃÖê¾ÖÖ ¿ÖŸÖí †£Ö¾ÖÖ ×®ÖμÖ´Ö WTO «üÖ¸üÖ »ÖÖÝÖæ ×Ûú‹ •ÖÖ ¸üÆêüÆïü, ´Öï ´ÖÖ®Ö®ÖßμÖ ´ÖÓ¡Öß •Öß ÃÖê ¯Öæ”û®ÖÖ “ÖÖÆüŸÖÖ ÆæÓü ×Ûú ...(ÃÖ´ÖμÖ Ûúß ‘ÖÓüß).. ‡ÃÖ ÃÖÓ²ÖÓ¬Ö ´Öë ¾Öê †¯Ö®ÖßŒμÖÖ ¸üÖμÖ ¸üÜÖŸÖê Æïü, ŸÖÖ×Ûú ¾ÖÆü ³ÖÖ¸üŸÖ Ûêú ×ÛúÃÖÖ®ÖÖë, ¾μÖÖ¯ÖÖ×¸üμÖÖë ‹¾ÖÓ μÖÆüÖÓ ÃÖê¾ÖÖ ´Öë »ÖÝÖê »ÖÖêÝÖÖë Ûêú×ÆüŸÖ ´Öë ÆüÖê…(ÃÖ´ÖÖ¯ŸÖ)

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111Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009DR. E.M. SUDARSANA NATCHIAPPAN (TAMIL NADU): Mr. Vice-Chairman, Sir, first of all, I would congratulate the hon. Minister on hisassuming the charge as the Minister of Commerce and Industry inUPA-II. He has created great hope for the people of India that Dohatalks will be finished within a particular period of 2010. Now, we feel veryhappy on hearing that Ministerial talks have led to that level even thoughnegotiations have not been initiated. I would like to quote the statementof the Chilean Finance Minister Mr. Andres Velasco who chaired thatparticular meeting. He said, "There was strong convergence onimportance of trade and the Doha Round to economic recovery andpoverty alleviation in the developing countries. The developmentdimensions should remain central to the Round and particular attentionshould be paid to issues of importance to developing countries."(Contd. by MKS/2c)MKS-AKG/1.20/2CDR. E.M. SUDARSANA NATCHIAPPAN (CONTD.): It is, more or less,reflecting our views, India's, but more emphasis has to be given topoverty alleviation. In which way were the preliminary discussions held?About that, the World Trade Organisation Director General, Pascal Lamy,said, and I quote, Sir:"The Ministerial Conference has provided the political energy toorganise work for the coming months."In which way are the other countries cooperating with us to have thispolitical energy? I would like to seek some clarifications from the hon.Minister. Some moratoriums were also imposed, by consent, during theperiod between one sitting and another sitting of the Ministerial

112Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009Conference. One is on electronic cobbles. Another one is on nonviolationunder the WTO Intellectual Property Agreement. In which way,is it going to help?Finally, an additional session they want to have on ClimaticChanges with a specific focus on "Aid for the Trade". What are theissues on that? Has the Government created a roadmap to havetransparency, before going for talks or negotiations, for the commonmen, i.e. agriculturists and stake holders? Many of the people have saidthat parliamentarians are to be taken into confidence; the stake holders,agriculturists and the entire section of the people who are going to beaffected by the negotiations have to be taken into confidence beforegoing for talks, and also during the course of the talks. We feel thatsomewhere it is missing. When regional talks were held by the ASEANcountries, people from Kerala started saying that they were notconsulted and things like that. Over and above that, some chamberconsultation was done by the hon. Minister also. That type of allegationshould not come up again. There should be a full-fledged discussioneven at the level of villages to see that WTO is really meant for thewelfare of the people, and also for the welfare of agriculturists. In whichway NAMA is going to help them; in which way they are going to beaffected and how they can overcome it; these are things to bediscussed before we go for negotiations. We first enter into negotiationsand, then, tell them that this is the thing happened. Therefore, weoblige for that. Rather, we have to prepare ourselves first. It is ademocratic nation and we are part of the democratic process of WTO.

113Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009Therefore, we have to practise it so that the people can understand itbetter. Thank you very much, Sir.THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN):(Ends)Thank you, Mr.Natchiappan. Now, Shri Rahul Bajaj. Actually, it is my name writtenthere; I am not reading it. I am giving my chance to you!SHRI RAHUL BAJAJ (MAHARASHTRA): Sir, I fully associate myselfwith the comments made by two learned speakers, especially Mr. N.K.Singh and Mr. Arun Jaitley. I think, they have made very valid points.From the last but one para of the Minister's Statement, we arehappy to learn that while negotiating this Round, which has started from2001, the essence of this Round, as we all know, is the developmentaspect of the Round, which means a slight climate change of commonbut differentiated responsibilities, less than full reciprocity. That has tobe kept in mind. And, Sir, we note that protecting the interest of poorfarmers and of Indian industry and seeking greater market opportunitiesfor our farmers and industry are the key elements. That is absolutelycorrect. Though, for agriculture -- I think, Mr. Jaitley also said so -- byand large, for the coming years, our interests are going to be moredefensive, rather than offensive, the subsidy is given especially, Sir, bythe US, France and Japan. Sir, as we talk of the US, both domesticsupport and export subsidy, of course, they have carried for agriculturalproducts, is so serious as our former Commerce Minister said: "Howeverinefficient the Indian farmer may be, he can successfully compete withthe US farmers." That is why the US farmer needs subsidy but theIndian Treasury cannot compete with the US Treasury. So, we have to

114Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009keep in mind the situation that is prevailing today. In Hindi, we say, Sir,"ˆ»ÖüÖ “ÖÖê¸ü ÛúÖêŸÖ¾ÖÖ»Ö ÛúÖê ›üÖÑêü…"-MKS-TMV-SCH/2D/1.25(2›üß/üß‹´Ö¾Öß ¯Ö¸ü •ÖÖ¸üß)SHRI RAHUL BAJAJ (CONTD.): Climate change is very similar, exceptfor the last night announcement by the US which has to be studied.Similar is the case with the WTO. For years and, in fact, for decades,we in the developing world were preached the benefits of free trade.Now those very countries, and I talk especially of the US but it appliesto all developed countries, do not want to even practise fair trade, leavealone free trade. We will protect our farmers; we will give legitimateprotection to our industry, etc. But while negotiating, we recognise thatit is a question of give and take. Till now even under the Swiss formula,which was referred to -- you wouldn't go into those co-efficients thatthere are three alternatives depending on what kind of freedom that youwant -- I believe we have already given more than we should. Whetheryou can plough back some of them depends on the Minister. That isone of my questions. Will you be able to plough back? It is difficult. Iwant to emphasise that we from the Indian industry have already givenan MoU. It applies to the bound rates. But, as Mr. Arun Jaitely hasstated, first, we would like to know whether the reduction, whether thepercentage reduction, that India and developing countries will make ismuch more than what the US will make. We were higher, but we areno longer that higher. How many of our reduced bound rates will gobelow the applied rates?

115Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009Secondly, I believe that 30 per cent of our items, tariff lines, werenot bound. Now almost all the tariff lines will become bound. I wouldlike to know, through you, Sir, from the hon. Minister whether it is true.In any case, it is give and take. But they have been only taking.Before 1991, in the early nineties, Mr. Vice-Chairman, we had a closedeconomy. We had very high rates of import tariff. We, the Indianindustry, were shouting against that. But the condition has changed. Inany case, I would like to request the hon. Minister that he should notgive in. He should not give in at all on the sectoral zero duty situation.That is one. He should not give in -- I don't have time to go into thedetail -- on the remanufactured products. They are keen on that. Heshould not give in at all on the anti-concentration clause. Giving in onany of these factors will tremendously hurt India, the Indian economyand our development process. We are already under pressure atCopenhagen. But in these things he should not give in at all.Finally, they are very strong negotiators. I think, Mr. Natchiappan,mentioned it in a different context. Their businessmen met ourbusinessmen to negotiate with them in Geneva. When they talk, wedon't know who the businessman is and who the Governmentrepresentative is. They are one. Here you don't take our businessrepresentatives. Even if you take them, since the time of Mr. ArunJaitley, Mr. Kamal Nath and now Mr. Sharma, you keep them outside.You don't let them come in. So, this must be done for the Indianindustry, Indian farmers and the Indian economy to have interactionwithin India. They do discuss. But it is not enough. More interaction isrequired to see that we don't give in to the bullying tactics, especially, of

116Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009the US. I agree that we have very good relations with the US. I havegood friends in America. I studied in America. It is a great country.But a country which only wants to protect its interests, which does notcare at all for other country's interests, we have to put a full stop.Thank you.(Ends)THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P. J. KURIEN): Now, Mr. Minister.(Interruptions)... Please. The Minister is replying. Please. The Ministeris replying.THE MINISTER OF COMMERCE AND INDUSTRY (SHRI ANANDSHARMA): Thank you, Mr. Vice-Chairman. I would like to thank thehon. Members, through you, Sir, for their interventions in this CallingAttention Motion which has been brought forward by Shri Moinul Hassanand Shri N. K. Singh. I also benefited from the inputs from the learnedLeader of the Opposition, who has himself held this responsibility in theprevious Government, and, surely, he is fully aware of the terrain, thepitfalls, the skills of India's negotiators and the various positions thatIndia has taken in this Round of trade negotiations.Sir, at the outset, I would like to say and make it very clear thatthis Round has one core agenda, that is, development.(Contd. by 2E/VK)VK/2E/1.30SHRI ANAND SHARMA (CONTD): It is meant to ensure that for thedeveloping countries, the poor countries and the LDCs, who have beenhistorically disadvantaged when it comes to global trade, market access,that includes both the nascent industries as well as the farmers or the

117Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009agriculture produce there is, as was said, a level playing field and theinterests of the vulnerable economies, the developing countries are fullyprotected. It is meant, therefore, to correct the distortion andimbalance. Therefore, the Doha Round has special significance. Thedeveloping and the poor countries have much to gain from thesuccessful conclusion of the Doha Round. I am afraid to say that theywill have the most to lose if this round does not lead to a rule-basedmultilateral trade regime which addresses the legitimate concerns andaspirations of the developing countries.Sir, last year, as I mentioned in my statement, there was a Mini-Ministerial in July, 2008 which did not lead to convergence of views onsome of the critical issues which were of import to the developingcountries including India. These negotiations did not proceed and, if Imay use the word, hit a roadblock. In the global parlance many wordshave been used. Since I assumed this responsibility, the talks werepaused and the talks had stalled. The fact is, there was a roadblock.At the same time, there was an increasing demand and urging by theleadership of the developing countries and the poor countries that thisRound should be safe, efforts should be made to revive and to take it toa successful conclusion. Sir, it was in June itself. Those were earlydays for me. I was trying to go up a steep learning curve, not familiarwith the details at that time but more familiar with the broad rules andprinciples. There was a meeting of the Cairns Group in Bali in Indonesiawhere there was talk of new processes which virtually meant to start allover again. That was being, this theory was being marketed orpropounded by the developed countries, those who did not have the

118Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009will to take the process forward. Much has been invested in these talksin the last eight years, as Shri N.K. Singh knows. He knows it fromboth sides, being part of the Government, Senior Secretary, PrincipleSecretary to the then Prime Minister. He knows about commerce.Since 2001, much was invested in this Round. India had taken a clearposition to ensure that this Round serves the interests of the developingcountries. I had then said, Sir, that the need was to reenergise and notto reinvent; reenergise the process by using the draft documents,through draft reports on agriculture and NAMA which were submitted inDecember, 2008, but never discussed, never got looked into. There werea number of calls from various world leaders at Summits, whether it wasthe G-20 in London, or the L'Aquila Summit Declaration urging theMinisters to help to take the initiative to revive the process. India talkedto its coalition partners in the developing countries, the G-20, the G-33and the NAMA-11. The Coordinator of the G-20 is Brazil. The G-33,which has made a very useful contribution in upholding our position andconcerns on agriculture, is chaired by Indonesia. The NAMA, Non-Agriculture Market Access Group is chaired by South Africa.(Contd. by RG/2F)RG/1.35/2FSHRI ANAND SHARMA (contd.): Sir, through our discussions with ourcoalition partners, we suggested to put together a mini-Ministerial inDelhi, representing the coalition or carcasses of all stakeholders in thedeveloping, poor countries in the LDCs and also the key interlocutorsfrom the developed countries. But, before we did that, before sendingthe invitations, we had a meeting of the developing countries, a coalition

119Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009on the margins of the OECD Ministerial in Paris. That was again inJune. And, the IPSA Ministers met at India's initiative. IPSA is animportant initiative of three continents, of three emerging economies andvibrant democracies, namely, India, Brazil and South Africa. We made itabundantly clear in that statement that the developing countries hadmade enough concessions, and there is no road for any unilateralconcessions by the developing or poor countries. I had taken the libertyto share the IPSA's statement with the prominent Leaders of theOpposition, both in the Lok Sabha and in the Rajya Sabha. I shared itwith my dear friend, Shri Sitaram Yechury, Shri Raja, and in the otherHouse with Dr. Murli Manohar Joshi and Shri Sharad Joshi. It was justto reassure that there is no question of India, while trying to re-energisethe process, taking a position which casts any shadow or any doubtwhen it comes to our engagement and solidarity with the poor anddeveloping countries of the world.Sir, in September, we had the Delhi Ministerial. It was arepresentative meeting attended by, literally, the microcosm of the WTOreflecting the entire membership from the developing countries, theAfrican Group, the LDCs, small and vulnerable economies and theCotton-4. We also had the key interlocutors from the developedcountries, namely, the U.S., the E.U., Japan, Canada and Australia.There was a consensus reached that negotiations should resume. Wedid not discuss the substance, but about the process as to how toresume the stalled negotiations.There was a reference made here by hon. Members, and I fullyagree with their concerns that there has been an adverse impact of the

120Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009global economic crisis on all economies. Trade has been hit. In case ofIndia too, our exports started declining in October, 2008. While quicklyadd, to reassure Shri Moinul Hassan, the various interventions and themeasures which the Government took and the new Foreign Trade Policy,focussing primarily on labour-intensive sectors, have helped in arrestingthe steep fall and reversing the trend. While we were falling in thenegative, close to 40 per cent in May, the last month's figures were onlysix per cent. We have been able to drag it down to a single digit. Butit is true that the global trade has shrunk. The WTO projections, thehon. Member was right, are that the global trade will fall by 9 per cent,and the IMF feels, maybe, by 12 per cent. Therefore, it is important thatthe trade negotiations are taken forward, as enhanced engagement,economic engagement, will help all countries, whether developing ordeveloped.Sir, various issues have come up -- these have even been raisedby the hon. Members -- on agriculture, on NAMA and on the servicessector.(Continued by 2G)TDB/2G/1.40SHRI ANAND SHARMA (CONTD.): Sir, in agriculture, our position isvery clear. First of all, it is special and differential treatment. We aretalking of developing countries getting a special dispensation and forwhich, in addition to the concessions or dis-concessions which we have,there are three important things which I want to mention. One is, thespecial products. The special products in agriculture which thedeveloping countries will designate, this will be self-designated, where no

121Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009tariff cuts will be taken. There is also the issue of what was raised byShri Arun Jaitley about the farmers from the big countries, the richfarmers and if there is a surge, how to protect our farmers? Sir, it isvery clear, again, besides the special products, the second is theoperational and effective special safeguard mechanism. They have to beless burdensome; they have to be easily operational because it is notonly the volume surge, even if there is a price distortion or price dip,the discussions are going on about the trigger, but, this is to protect ourfarmers and our agriculture sector. And also, the question raised, andrightly so, by the rich countries whether it is the United States ofAmerica or Canada or the European Union where huge subsidies aregiven to the farmers, price support is there. Subsidies are also given, asthe hon. Leader of the Opposition knows, to keep the production low.So, there are all kinds of subsidies which are trade distorting, which arenot acceptable. India, along with its coalition partners has made it veryclear that these subsidies shall have to be drastically cut. The developedcountries, America and the E.U. will have to make deep cuts in thesubsidies, minimum 70 per cent, and this is still being negotiated. So,there is no question of accepting a situation where these tradedistortions and these huge subsidies shall be allowed and an agreementis reached. There cannot be any agreement with these subsidies inplace. I can assure you.There is also the issue of tariff simplification and tariff capping ofthe developed countries; the issue of developed countries tariffs inagriculture. And there, India is engaged, once again, very pro-activelywith G-20 and G-33. Since this matter was raised just now by an hon.

122Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009Member as to where we stand when it comes to G-20 and G-33, Iwould like to inform the House that on the Margins of the WTOMinisterial in Geneva, which was not meant for substantive negotiationsbut to review the WTO functioning and also the global economic crisisand its adverse impact on the world trade, we had the meeting of theG-20 and the G-33. The G-20 and G-33 communiques are in publicdomain. We have taken a firm stand and categorical position when itcomes to both our position on agriculture and also on NAMA. Becauseon NAMA, Sir, we are talking of Non-Agricultural Market Access. Now,how do we safeguard our vulnerable industries in the developingcountries? Therefore, the developing countries, again, as the principle ofspecial and differential treatment, are going to have flexibilities.Flexibilities in those sectors, those lines where we don't want to takeany tariff cuts. Those flexibilities shall be the sole discretion, on ourjudgement, as to which flexibilities we want to take, which are thesectors where we will not take cuts, zero cut.(Contd. by 2h-kgg)kgg/2H/1.45SHRI ANAND SHARMA (CONTD.): Again, the NAMA flexibilities principleis integral to the negotiations. Shri Rahul Bajaj had asked, and rightly so,about our position on sectorals. There was a Hong Kong Ministerialmeeting in 2005 which has taken some decisions, and it is clear thatsectorals will be non-mandatory for the developing countries and poorcountries. There cannot be any mandatory engagement by India, itscoalition partners, in sectorals which will figure in the agreement. We will

123Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009not accept the mandatory principle; we have made it abundantly clear atthe WTO in the negotiations.Also, on the re-manufactured goods, let me assure my dear friend,Shri Rahul Bajaj, there is no question of India yielding. We will notaccept it. Now, when it comes to certain other issues which the hon.Members have raised, one is on meaningful market access, as to whatthe USA has said. Sir, for the benefit of hon. Members and for the sakeof record, let me mention that these are multi-lateral negotiations. Weknow about the Uruguay Round; it went on for a long time. Thesenegotiations have been going on since the last 8 years. One hundredand fifty three countries are engaged in these negotiations. Thesecountries come from different levels of development; the nature ofchallenges, developmental challenges and their concerns are different.Many are common when it comes to the developing countries and thepoor countries. Multi-lateral negotiations primarily mean that countrieshave their position; but they negotiate to find a middle-ground whereeach country--poor, vulnerable economies, developing countries,emerging economies or the rich countries--is comfortable to stand. As Ihave said, we have made it clear even now in this meeting in Geneva inour statement. I shall, for the benefit of hon. Members, read the foursalient points which I have highlighted in Geneva, as our position: (A)There can be no dilution of development objective of the Round andthere is a need for sympathetic understanding of the concerns of thedeveloping world. (B) In the process of bridging the gaps in negotiations,there cannot be any reversion of the broad understandings reached inthe past eight years. (C) Demands for additional market access in

124Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009developing countries need to be tapered by the development agendaand not driven by commercial considerations. (D) The centrality of themulti-lateral process in negotiations must be maintained.This is, broadly speaking, India's position which we articulated inthe recent WTO Ministerial meeting. There is a question raised aboutNAMA co-efficients and on the tariffs. Hon. Leader of the Oppositionknows, so does Shri N.K. Singh, that there has been a gradualreduction of tariffs over a period of time. What tariffs? There are boundtariffs and there are applied tariffs. Our bound tariffs are very high.Reduction of tariff, when a view is taken, does not take away yoursovereign inherent right to raise it, even up to the bound level if any timethe situation demands. What is being negotiated are the bound tariffs.So, our learned Member, Shri N.K. Singh, knows that better than me.Sir, on co-efficients and flexibilities, I would be very clear, theseissues are not frozen, not settled.(Contd. by sss/2j)SSS/2J/1.50SHRI ANAND SHARMA (CONTD.): They are not settled. Negotiationsare on, but, as we have said, I have made our position on tariffs veryclear. We are also determined to protect when it comes to our industry,particularly, the vulnerable sections. Shri Jaitley had made this referenceto the green box being negotiated. It did. But, we are very clear whenit comes to ensuring that India is a developing country, its interests arenot hurt. The present bound tariffs when we are concerned withagriculture are 114 per cent and India has, I can say with a sense ofresponsibility, clarity about its objective, commitment to uphold its

125Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009supreme national interest and also, if I may say so, enough role for ournegotiators to initiate an agreement which eventually serves the interestsof the developing countries, of our vulnerable industries of our farmers.Sir, on meaningful market access, I had deviated a bit from there, I willgo back. On meaningful market access, I was mentioning what theUnited States wants. The countries make their positions. They comewith their positions but they negotiate. They try to harmonise positions.It should be very clear. Harmonising our positions without compromisingour interest is something which we are for. But not harmonising ourposition where our interests gets affected, there is no question ofdilution. There is no question of negotiation when it comes to that.But, Sir, even in United States of America, developed countries and USand EU, it is true that they also have their expectations. Like we haveour aspirations and concerns, they have their own expectations. But, itdoes not mean that they will get what they demand in a statement. It isa general statement which is made. Our negotiators know what themandate is and what they are negotiating for. Sir, one issue which wasrightly raised is about the services. It is true that India has its strengthin the services sector and it is not a question that we have not givenpriority to the services negotiations. The negotiations are very much on.The same Hong Kong Ministerial which had taken the decision, which Ireferred to on the sectorals, also took a view on sequencing and in thesequencing agreed to in the 2005 Hong Kong Ministerial it wasagriculture, NAMA and services. When we had the meeting in Delhi wemade it abundantly clear to the key interlocutors from the developedcountries and also to the DG of the WTO that services negotiations have

126Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009to be taken upfront because we have our interests and there is noquestion of our agreeing only to those sectors where the developedcountries are interested. We are clear that it has to be concluded as asingle undertaking. The present round of negotiations and services willbe an integral part. So, on the services, if I may just inform that at theWTO Negotiations and traded services are unlike those in agriculture andNAMA and industrial goods as there are no tariffs which are quantifiablewhen it comes to services. Therefore, India's position is clear that ourinterests out of the four modes in two are very strong. That is modeone on cross border supply and mode four is a movement ofprofessionals. We hope when the negotiations move forward we will bein a position to assess carefully after the text-based negotiations resumenow, as has been agreed, and those revised drafts on agriculture andNAMA and on the services negotiations, which will be horizontally takenup after a few months, I can say, we would better assess where we areat that stage.(Contd. by NBR/2K)-SSS/NBR-MP/2K/1.55.SHRI ANAND SHARMA (CONTD.): Sir, before I conclude, I would like tosay two more things.The first one is whether the W.T.O. is dictating. Shri N.K. Singhknows that the W.T.O. is a membership-driven organisation. TheSecretariat can compile. Thee Secretariat is meant for that and it ispaid for that. But, it is the political leaders and the Member countries ofthe W.T.O. who will decide what to do. The Secretariat does not decidein any multilateral organisation -- whether it be the UN or the WIPO or

127Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009the WTO. So, there is no question of harbouring any fears or concerns onthat. Sir, I may also say, hon. Member, Shri Amar Singhji, has expressedconcern about the farmers. I am very happy.THE LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION (SHRI ARUN JAITLEY): I hope the hon.Minister will have the same volume when he argues for us in the W.T.O.SHRI ANAND SHARMA: Do not worry. I have no doubt, Arun.THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): I believe, he will.SHRI ANAND SHARMA: Sir, the hon. Leader of the Opposition should nothave any doubt. In fact, I am always here to say what the status is. Weshall continue to do so, because we are a democracy. We would like, as aGovernment and I as a Minister, to keep the hon. Leader of the Opposition,hon. Members in the Opposition and my own colleagues in the TreasuryBenches, to fully apprise of the developments at every stage.But, just to assure Shri Amar Singh about his concern whether we willcome under the pressure. Hon. Leader of the Opposition has also said thesame. Sir, there is no question of coming under pressure when it comes totrade policy. India will come under only one pressure, the pressure of itsinterest, the pressure of its people and the pressure of its farmers. There isno question of we being pro-America. Sir, Shri Amar Singh knows Americamuch better than me. He knows Mr. Bill Clinton, Ms. Hillary Clinton. Hesupports them in the foundation. I don't do that. So, please do not haveany concern...SHRI AMAR SINGH: That is the reason for his apprehension.SHRI ANAND SHARMA: Sir, I will make it clear where we are and we arepro-whom.SHRI AMAR SINGH: Since he has mentioned my name, I will respond to itafter his reply.

128Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009SHRI ANAND SHARMA: It is said in a positive sense. Surely, I have noobjection to his engagement.Sir, what I am saying is 'where we are.' I am just concluding. We arepro-whom? We are pro-India, if our commitment is to uphold the supremenational interest of this country. Sir, when we take the negotiations forward,we are clear that historical distortions must be corrected. There should be arule-based global trade regime which protects the livelihood concerns of thesubsistence farmers in the developing countries, the poor in the developingcountries, also ensures food security and protection for the vulnerableindustrial sectors.I would like to thank the hon. Members who gave me this opportunityto share my views. Thank you.(Ends)SHRI AMAR SINGH (UTTAR PRADESH): Sir, the hon. Minister has taken myname. ˆ®ÆüÖë®Öê ´Öê¸üÖ ®ÖÖ´Ö ×»ÖμÖÖ Æîü, ŸÖÖê ´Öï ‡ŸÖ®ÖÖ Æüß ÛúÆü®ÖÖ “ÖÖÆæÓüÝÖÖ ×Ûú ¯ÖÏ¬ÖÖ®Ö ´ÖÓ¡Öß ´Ö®Ö´ÖÖêÆü®Ö ØÃÖÆü•Öß Ûúß •ÖÖ®ÖÛúÖ¸üß ´Öë ´Öê¸üß ¤üÖêÃŸÖß ØŒ»Öü®Ö ¤üÓ¯Ö×ŸÖ ÃÖê Æîü… ×²Ö»Ö ØŒ»Öü®Ö ÃÖê •μÖÖ¤üÖ Æîü †Öî¸ü ×Æü»Öê¸üßØŒ»Öü®Ö ÃÖê ˆ®ÖÛúß ¯ÖŸ®Öß Ûêú ®ÖÖŸÖê Æîü… ´Öï®Öê ±úÖˆÓ›êü¿Ö®Ö Ûúß ´Ö¤ü¤ü ×ÛúÃÖß ‹êÃÖê ŸÖ¸üßÛêú ÃÖê ®ÖÆüà Ûúß Æîü ×Ûú´Öï®Öê ¤êü¿Ö Ûêú ×ÛúÃÖß ÛúÖ®Öæ®Ö ÛúÖ ˆ»»ÖÓ‘Ö®Ö ×ÛúμÖÖ Æîü… †ÝÖ¸ü ‹êÃÖÖ ×ÛúμÖÖ Æîü, ŸÖÖê ¾Öê •ÖÖÓ“Ö Ûú¸ü¾ÖÖ »Öë…...(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö).. ¾Öê •ÖÖÓ“Ö Ûú¸ü¾ÖÖ »Öë †Öî¸ü ¤æüÃÖ¸üß ²ÖÖŸÖ μÖÆü Æîü ×Ûú ´Öï®Öê μÖÆü ®μÖæ×Œ»ÖμÖ¸ü ›üß»Ö ÛúÖê Ûú¸¾ÖüÖ®Öê Ûêú×»Ö‹ ×ÛúμÖÖ Æîü… ‡®ÖÛúß ®μÖæ×Œ»ÖμÖ¸ü ....(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö).... ×¸ü¯Ö×²»ÖÛú®ÃÖ ÃÖ¯ÖÖêÔü Ûú¸ü ¸üÆêü £Öê †Öî¸ü ›êü´ÖÖêÛÎêúËüÃÖ×¾Ö¸üÖê¬Ö Ûú¸ü ¸üÆêü £Öê, ŸÖÖê ˆ®ÆüÖë®Öê ´Öê¸üÖ ‡ÃŸÖê´ÖÖ»Ö ×ÛúμÖÖ Æîü…THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): The House is adjourned forlunch for one hour.-----The House then adjourned for lunch atfifty-nine minutes past one of the clock.

129Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009-sc-pb/skc-gs/2l & 2m/2.55-3.00The House re-assembled after lunch at three of the clock,MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN in the Chair.----SUPPLEMENTARY DEMANDS FOR GRANTS (GENERAL), 2009-10THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF FINANCE (SHRINAMO NARAIN MEENA): Sir, I beg to lay on the Table, a statement (inEnglish and Hindi) showing the Supplementary Demands for Grants(General) for the year 2009-10.(Ends)SUPPLEMENTARY DEMANDS FOR GRANTS (JHARKHAND), 2009-10THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF FINANCE (SHRINAMO NARAIN MEENA): Sir, I beg to lay on the Table, a statement (inEnglish and Hindi) of the estimated receipts and expenditure of the Stateof Jharkhand for the year 2009-10.(Ends)MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Now, we shall take up the Short DurationDiscussion on Price Rise. Mr. Kalraj Mishra.SHORT DURATION DISCUSSION ON THE SITUATION ARISING OUTOF CONTINUED RISE IN PRICES OF ESSENTIAL COMMODITIES INTHE COUNTRYÁÖß Ûú»Ö¸üÖ•Ö ×´ÖÁÖ (ˆ¢Ö¸ü ¯ÖÏ¤êü¿Ö) : ˆ¯ÖÃÖ³ÖÖ¯Ö×ŸÖ ´ÖÆüÖê¤üμÖ, ´Öæ»μÖ ¾Öé×¨ü ×•ÖÃÖ ÃŸÖ¸ü ÃÖê ÆüÖê ¸üÆüß ÆîüˆÃÖÛúÖê ¤êüÜÖ®Öê Ûêú ²ÖÖ¤ü μÖÆü »ÖÝÖŸÖÖ Æîü ×Ûú ÃÖÖ´ÖÖ®μÖ ÝÖ¸üß²Ö ¾μÖ×ŒŸÖ Æüß ®ÖÆüà, ´Ö¬μÖ´Ö ¾ÖÝÖáμÖ ÃÖê »ÖêÛú¸üÃÖ³Öß »ÖÖêÝÖ ‡ÃÖÃÖê •Ö²Ö¤ÔüÃŸÖ ¯ÖÏ³ÖÖ×¾ÖŸÖ ÆüÖê ¸üÆêü Æïü… ÆüÖ»ÖÖŸÖ ‹êÃÖê ÆüÖêŸÖê •ÖÖ ¸üÆüê ÆîüÓ ×Ûú ÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸ü×•ÖŸÖ®Öß ²ÖÖ¸ü ‘ÖÖêÂÖÞÖÖ Ûú¸üŸÖß Æîü ×Ûú Æü´Ö ×®ÖμÖÓ¡ÖÞÖ Ûú¸ëüÝÖê, •Ö»¤üß Æüß Ûú¸ëüÝÖê, ¬ÖîμÖÔ ¸üÜÖ®ÖÖ “ÖÖ×Æü‹,ˆŸÖ®Öß ŸÖê•Öß Ûêú ÃÖÖ£Ö ´ÖÆÓüÝÖÖ‡Ô ²ÖœÍüŸÖß •ÖÖ ¸üÆüß Æîü… †ÝÖ¸ü Æü´Ö †¯Ö®Öê ‡ÃÖ ×¾Ö¿ÖÖ»Ö ¤êü¿Ö Ûúß ×Ã£Ö×ŸÖÛúÖê ¤êüÜÖë ŸÖÖê Æü´Öë ×¤üÜÖÖ‡Ô ¯Ö›ÍêüÝÖÖ ×Ûú †×¬ÖÛúÖÓ¿Ö »ÖÖêÝÖ ÝÖ¸üß²Öß Ûúß ¸êüÜÖÖ Ûêú ®Öß“Öê Ûúß Ø•Ö¤üÝÖß

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136Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009†Ö´Ö †Ö¤ü´Öß Ûêú ¯ÖÏ×ŸÖ ×•ÖŸÖ®Öß ÃÖÓ¾Ö¤êü®Ö¿Öß»ÖŸÖÖ ÆüÖê®Öß “ÖÖ×Æü‹, ˆÃÖÛúÖ ¯ÖæÞÖÔŸÖμÖÖ †³ÖÖ¾Ö ÆüÖê®Öê ÛêúÛúÖ¸üÞÖ μÖê ÃÖÖ¸üß “Öß•Öë ®ÖÆüà ÆüÖê ¸üÆüß Æïü †Öî¸ü ¯Ö×¸üÞÖÖ´Ö μÖÆü ÆüÖê ¸üÆüÖ Æîü ×Ûú ´ÖÆÓüÝÖÖ‡Ô †ÖÃÖ´ÖÖ®Ö ”æŸÖß•ÖÖ ¸üÆüß Æîü †Öî¸ü †Ö´Ö †Ö¤ü´Öß ´Ö¸ü®Öê Ûêú ×»Ö‹ ´Ö•Ö²Öæ¸ü ÆüÖêŸÖÖ •ÖÖ ¸üÆüÖ Æîü… ´Öï “ÖÖÆæÓüÝÖÖ ×Ûú ‡ÃÖ ×¤ü¿ÖÖ´Öë Ûêú¾Ö»Ö ³ÖÖÂÖÞÖ ´ÖÖ¡Ö ®Ö ¸üÆê, ×•ÖŸÖ®Öß ³Öß ÃÖÖ¸üß “Öß•Öë Æïü, †Ö¯ÖÛêú «üÖ¸üÖ Æüß ¯ÖÏ¤ü¢Ö •ÖÖê †ÖÓÛú›Íêü Æïü,ˆ®Ö †ÖÓÛú›ÍüÖë Ûêú †Ö¬ÖÖ¸ü ¯Ö¸ü ÃÖ´Öã×“ÖŸÖ ×¾ÖŸÖ¸ÞÖ ¾μÖ¾ÖÃ£ÖÖ †Öî¸ü ÃÖÖ£Ö Æüß ÃÖÖ£Ö Ûéú×ÂÖ Ûêú ²ÖÖ¸êü ´Öë ´Öï×¾Ö¿ÖêÂÖ ŸÖÖî¸ü ¯Ö¸ü •ÖÖê¸ü ¤êüÛú¸ü ÛúÆæÓüÝÖÖ, ´ÖÖ®Ö®ÖßμÖ Ûéú×ÂÖ ´ÖÓ¡Öß •Öß μÖÆüÖÓ ˆ¯Ö×Ã£ÖŸÖ Æïü, Ûéú×ÂÖ Ûêú ²ÖÖ¸êü ´Öë×¾Ö¿ÖêÂÖ Ø“ÖŸÖÖ Ûú¸üŸÖê Æãü‹ ÛúÆæÓüÝÖÖ ŒμÖÖë×Ûú †Ö•Ö Ûéú×ÂÖ ÛúÖ ˆŸ¯ÖÖ¤ü®Ö ‘ÖüŸÖÖ •ÖÖ ¸üÆüÖ Æîü..…(Óakg/2q ¯Ö¸ü •ÖÖ¸üß)AKG-SK/2Q/3.20ÁÖß Ûú»Ö¸üÖ•Ö ×´ÖÁÖ (ÛÎú´ÖÖÝÖŸÖ) : μÖÆü ˆŸ¯ÖÖ¤ü®Ö ‘Öü®ÖÖ ‹Ûú ÜÖŸÖ¸ü®ÖÖÛú ÃÖÓÛêúŸÖ Æîü… ‡ÃÖ ˆŸ¯ÖÖ¤ü®Ö ÛúÖêÛîúÃÖê ²ÖœÍüÖμÖÖ •ÖÖ ÃÖÛêú †Öî¸ü ×ÛúÃÖ ¯ÖÏÛúÖ¸ü Ûúß ÃÖã×¾Ö¬ÖÖ ¯ÖÏ¤üÖ®Ö Ûúß •ÖÖ ÃÖÛêú, ‡ÃÖÛúß ×¾Ö¿ÖêÂÖ ×“Ö®ŸÖÖÛú¸ü®Öß “ÖÖ×Æü‹, ŸÖ²Ö ¿ÖÖμÖ¤ü Æü´Ö ´ÖÆÓüÝÖÖ‡Ô ÛúÖê ²ÖÖÑ¬Ö ÃÖÛú®Öê ´Öë Ûãú”û ÃÖõÖ´Ö, Ûãú”û ÃÖ±ú»Ö ÆüÖê ÃÖÛëúÝÖê…‡ŸÖ®Öß ²ÖÖŸÖ ÛúÆü Ûú¸ü ´Öï μÖÆü †¯ÖêõÖÖ Ûú¸üŸÖÖ ÆæÑü ×Ûú ´ÖÓ¡Öß •Öß ‡ÃÖ ×¤ü¿ÖÖ ´Öë Ûú›ÍüÖ-ÃÖê-Ûú›ÍüÖ Ûú¤ü´ÖˆšüÖ‹ÓÝÖê…(ÃÖ´ÖÖ¯ŸÖ)SHRIMATI JAYANTHI NATARAJAN (TAMIL NADU): Thank you, Sir.Sir, this is, undoubtedly, a very important issue for us to be discussingin the House. It is with a great deal of seriousness and concern that allof us are gathered here to discuss the issue of rise in prices. ThisGovernment, particularly, Sir, has come into Government and has formedthe Government upon the promise and mandate that our concern lieswith the most disadvantaged sections of the society and our entire focusand priority will be the most disadvantaged sections of the society, thepoorest of the poor, the people who are at the edge and below thepoverty line. Therefore, Sir, I believe, that the priority of the Governmentis and should be to moderate inflation, to moderate food prices, toincrease inclusive growth, to give a substantial impetus to agriculture

137Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009and, above all, to insulate the weakest and most disadvantaged sectionsof the society from all the issues of price rise that have been spokenabout by the speaker before me and that the entire country is agitatedabout. However, Sir, at the same time, I would urge this House,through you, to take a look at the facts so that we may, in anatmosphere of calm, reasonableness decide and discuss together howbest this problem should be addressed. First of all, Sir, the hon.Member who spoke before me was very passionate and emotional andgave a great deal of details and statistics. But I was surprised to findthat he completely neglected to mention that, particularly, over the lastyear and also in recent times, 27 out of 36 meteorological districts in thiscountry have been affected by moderate to severe drought. Also, Sir,the people of my State and the people of Karnataka have beendevastated by floods. The loss of lives, the loss of livestock, the loss ofcrops, the loss of agriculture is incalculable. It appears to me that thehon. Member was speaking in a vacuum. Naturally in an atmospherewhere you are concerned, your immediate instinct would be to addressthose issues to the Government and that is as it should be, that shouldbe reasonable. But we should look at the broader picture. What is thisGovernment battling with? This Government is not sitting upon amountain of plenty and refusing to do its job. The fact of the matter iswe have been hit hard; 27 out of 36 meteorological districts havemoderate to severe drought in the country, while in such a large countryas India, the other districts, particularly in Karnataka, to a lesser extentin Tamil Nadu and to a large extent in Andhra Pradesh also have beendevastated by floods.

138Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009Then, Sir, if you look at other issues, if you look at an internationalpicture of global recession, the new driving forces of urbanisation, ofconsumption, of production market, of income growth, the issue ofclimate change, the changing factors in the climate all these haveimpacted severely upon agriculture, have impacted severely upon themost poverty-stricken of our people. Therefore, I would urge this Houseto look at the entire issue in that background and in that light, and toexamine what the Government has done in that background and to seeand suggest, we have every right in the House to suggest thatGovernment has to perform better. We have to perform better and wewill perform better. But I would urge that we should first see what is thebackground.Now, Sir, in this context, I would also like to say that an overlyalarming picture has also been painted by the media in an attempt tosensationalise the issue. That too, Sir, to spread some kind of panicamong people would be an entirely misguided effort and would be agreat disservice to the people of this country is what I believe. Everytime to come up with alarming statistics of how much the prices havegone up when actually that is not the correct picture is also doing somekind of disservice to the nation.(continued by 2R-ysr)-SK/YSR-PSV/3.25/2RSHRIMATI JAYANTHI NATARAJAN (CONTD.): I believe that the mediashould also exercise some kind of restraint. It should report productivelyand report facts correctly, as they are, and present them to the people,so that there is no scary situation.

139Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009Despite all the problems that he has mentioned, despite all thefigures that have been given by the hon. Member who spoke before me,the fact remains that there is not even the remotest possibility of a foodscarcity in our country. It is not as if we are going to have starvation inthe country. We have buffers stocks of 153.49 lakh tonnes of rice asagainst the prescribed norms of 52 lakh tonnes. These are Governmentfigures, given by the hon. Agriculture Minister. Our buffer stock forwheat stands at 284.57 lakh tonnes as against the norm of 110 lakhtonnes for wheat. Therefore, this question does not arise.Sir, our procurement of rice and wheat has been the highest eversince Independence and that is another issue that we need to consider.Yes, we can distribute it better, but what are the constructive steps thatwe need to take? But let us not look at the entire picture as ifeverything is doom and gloom. Let us look at it in a spirit ofconstructive suggestion. Our procurement has been the highest everwith 33.1 million tonnes of rice as also 22.57 million tonnes of wheat.This is the highest ever since Independence.Sir, consider also the fact that under the Antyodaya Scheme, 35kg of foodgrains, rice at Rs.3 per kg and wheat at Rs.2 per kg, arebeing given to every family. (Interruptions) Whenever you get yourchance, you surely bring to the notice of the House the issues and theAntyodaya Scheme. But the fact of the matter is that the Governmenthas instituted the Antyodaya Scheme. The lapses, if any, are for us toaddress. The fact is that under the scheme, the issue price of rice,wheat, sugar, edible oil, and pulses has not gone up since thisGovernment came to power in 2004. It has not gone up by one rupee.

140Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009It has not gone up by even one paisa. The Government standscommitted steadfastly to the fact that the most disadvantaged sectionsof society have to be insulated and given social security net in terms ofpoverty reduction.Sir, the Government has taken tremendous pains. The hon.Member spoke about the agriculture sector. To me, one of the mostimportant issues -- I am not an expert -- regarding agriculture is thequestion of Minimum Support Price in terms of what a Government cando. The Minimum Support Price for rice has been increased by thisGovernment by 79 per cent from Rs.560 to Rs.1,000. The MSP forwheat has been increased by 72 per cent from Rs.640 to Rs.1,100. Theintention of the Government to help the farmer, to help the agriculturesector, and to take all steps to protect the disadvantaged people of thecountry is very clear and very, very transparent for the entire world tosee. You look at the fiscal measures; you look at the administrativemeasures.The hon. Member raised the question of futures trading. Thefutures trading has been stopped. When the entire issue became a verybig problem, futures trading in four vital items, namely, rice, urad dal,tuar dal and sugar has been suspended. Also, the export of non-Basmati rice, edible oil, and pulses have been banned.Fiscal measures have been taken by the Government. A largeamount of money has been injected into the economy. I believe thatwhatever measures a Central Government can possibly take, those stepsand those measures have been taken by the Government to good effect.

141Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009The hon. Member spoke about growth. Nobody wants joblessand inflated growth. Nobody wants growth where prices are beyond thereach of common man. That would be a complete anomaly in ourdemocracy; that would make a travesty of our democracy. Nobodysupports the issue of a GDP growth where prices are very high. And itis not that as if this Government is advocating a GDP growth whereprices of essential commodities are very high, particularly of food items,and where food inflation is very high. We have to take all steps to bringthat food inflation down.(Contd. By VKK/2S)-YSR/VKK-DS/2s/3.30SHRIMATI JAYANTHI NATARAJAN (CONTD.): However, Sir, growth isnot a dirty word. We need growth. We need GDP growth. The fact ofthe matter is that we should be proud that despite a severing globaleconomic crisis over the last several years, our economy has given veryencouraging signals of recovery of growth from 6.7 per cent and is nowprojected to grow by 7.9 per cent. The infrastructure sector has goneup. Cement, steel, coal, etc. have all gone up. Electricity generation,according to official figures, has gone up by six per cent andinfrastructure doubled to 4.3 per cent this year. It is because of thepolicies of this stable Government, the policies initiated by theGovernment that the GDP has grown to this extent. This is somethingthat we should be quietly proud of while never losing sight of the factthat food inflation stares us in the face and food inflation needs to bebrought under control. Now, Sir, I have already enumerated and I would

142Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009like to enumerate once again the measures that have been taken on thefiscal and administrative side.Sir, as far as the fiscal measures that have been taken areconcerned, import duty has been reduced to zero for rice, sugar, wheat,pulses, edible oil and maize. For refined and hydrogenated vegetableoils, duty is 0.78 per cent. One million tonnes of sugar have beenallowed to be imported by this Government. Sir, regarding theadministrative measures, the Government has banned the export of nonbasmatirice, edible oil, pulses, the Government also imposed short limitorders on paddy, rice, pulses, sugar and edible oils up to 31.11.2010,enhanced minimum support price to maximise production and bannedfuture trading which I have already mentioned.Now, Sir, this is a country where we believe in cooperativefederalism and nobody in this hon. House can deny that out of the twopillars of any food security issue or the main pillar of any food securityissue, one has to be the strengthening of the public distribution systemand the other has to be taking very strict action against blackmarketeersand hoarders. Sir, as far as taking strict action against blackmarketeersand hoarders is concerned, there is the Prevention of BlackMarketing Act, the Essential Commodities Act and there are orders thathave come under the Act. Sir, it is unfortunate that in the NDA rule, thehon. Member, who spoke before me, was referring to so proudly, theEssential Commodities Act was diluted. It was during their time.(Interruptions)

143Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009ÁÖß ¯ÖÏÛúÖ¿Ö •ÖÖ¾Ö›êüÛú¸ü : *SHRIMATI JAYANTHI NATARAJAN: Mr. Javadekar, I am not yielding.(Interruptions)ÁÖß ˆ¯ÖÃÖ³ÖÖ¯Ö×ŸÖ : †ÝÖ¸ü †Ö¯Ö yield ®ÖÆüà Ûú¸ü ¸üÆüß Æïü ŸÖÖê nothing will go on record.(Interruptions)ÁÖß ¯ÖÏÛúÖ¿Ö •ÖÖ¾Ö›êüÛú¸ü : *SHRIMATI JAYANTHI NATARAJAN: I am not yielding. (Interruptions) Iwould like to continue. (Interruptions) It is obviously a problem which youcannot address. (Interruptions) They cannot address. It is also a fact thatthe public distribution system was virtually dismantled by making it atargeted public distribution system by dividing it into different colourcards for people. All this was done under the NDA Government. But, thefact of the matter is that I would like to say that whatever steps canpossibly be taken by the Central Government have been taken by theCentral Government in pursuance of our commitment of our mandate tothe common man. Sir, what will the States do? The Central Governmenthas no territory. It is the Union of India. In cooperative federalism, theStates are expected to take action against black-marketeers andhoarders and to strengthen the public distribution system. Are the Statesdoing that? I think, Sir, it is our responsibility in the Council of States todemand that the States also should actually take action in this verysensitive and most important matter. If a State Government does nottake steps against black-marketeers and hoarders, and does notstrengthen the public distribution system, I would say that the State------------------------------------------------------------------------------------* Not recorded.

144Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009Government has completely failed in its duty to the people. Sir, if youlook at the records which have been provided by the hon. Minister inanother context, in the last year, with regard to the black-marketeersand hoarders, by the Delhi Government, 70 raids have taken place, 45arrests have taken place and 49 prosecutions have taken place. Sir, inBihar -- 4 raids, 2 arrests, zero prosecution; in Gujarat -- 18459 raids, 18arrests, 71 prosecutions; in Himachal Pradesh -- 14946 raids, threearrests, two prosecutions; in Kerala, 33638 raids, 18 arrests, 2prosecutions.(Contd. by MKS/2t)MKS-AKA/3.35/2TSHRIMATI JAYANTHI NATARAJAN (CONTD.): In Maharashtra, Sir,there were 716 raids, 1,171 arrests and 756 prosecutions; in my State ofTamil Nadu, there were 11,535 raids, 3,532 arrests and 1,079prosecutions, and in West Bengal, there were 56 raids, 58 arrests andone prosecution! Therefore, we can gauge from these details that TamilNadu has performed exceptionally well. I am very proud that in myState, very serious measures are being taken, very serious steps arebeing taken to address...(Interruptions)... Very, very serious steps arebeing taken to address this entire issue of black-marketeers, of hoardersand of strengthening the Public Distribution System, which is,undeniably, the pillar of a social security net as far as the mostdisadvantaged sections are concerned.Sir, there is one final issue that I would like to bring to the noticeof the House, and that, again, is wrong......(Interruptions)... These arenot some figures that I am pulling out of a hat. This is from a reputed

145Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009daily newspaper. It projects very clearly how the retail prices are rising,the inflation is used by sellers as an excuse to hike rates, and thedifference between the price in the wholesale market and the price inthe retail market is going up. If you look at the comparative prices ofvegetables, the price of ladyfingers is Rs.60/- in the retail market, andRs.28/-, in the wholesale market; the price of bottle gourd is Rs.40/- inthe retail market, and Rs.12/-, in the wholesale market, and the price ofcauliflower is Rs.30/- in the retail market, and Rs.5/-, in the wholesalemarket. This is from The Times of India, which is not a paperparticularly slanted in any political direction. I only use these figures andthe newspaper to say that this is an issue which also has very seriouspolitical dimensions. Therefore, Sir, it is not merely a question of politicswhen I say that it is the State Governments which also have to step in.As I said, the Government of India has no territory of its own. It is theState Governments that have to take a very strong action and crack thewhip against black-marketeers and hoarders. These people are doing atremendous disservice to our national economy and to the people of ourcountry. At the same time, we should address this entire issue of risingprices which also, Sir,. ...(Interruptions)... I have checked the figures....(Interruptions)... The point I would like to reiterate, Sir,is......(Interruptions)... These are my final concluding remarks. The factis that when I say this, I do not say this in a spirit of political blamegame. I do not take the name of any State; I do not take the name ofany political party. My issue is very simple. It is not a question of whyshould the States do it and why should the Centre do it. I believe thatthe Centre has to do its duty, and if it does not do its duty, they will be

146Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009called to task by the people of this country. I have enumerated thesteps which this Government has taken -- the political party of which Iam a Member, is part of this Government -- and the steps that thisGovernment has taken, I very firmly believe, are good steps; those aresteps being taken to ameliorate the suffering of the common man. Iwould ask any Member, from the other side, to give suggestions,constructive suggestions, on how this Government may improve theirperformance. However, Sir, the State Governments cannot run awayfrom their responsibility of strengthening the Public Distribution and oftaking a strong action against hoarders and black-marketeers, to seethat the prices come down. I would like to request all concerned tostop spreading unnecessary sensationalism and panic when none iscalled for. Thank you, Sir.(Ends)MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Shri Shyamal Chakraborty. Your Party hasten minutes and there are two speakers. Please keep this in mind.SHRI SHYAMAL CHAKRABORTY (WEST BENGAL): Sir, on such animportant issue extra time will have to be given.Thanks for allowing me to participate in the discussion. Sir, weare very proud of our best space scientists who are sending rockets tothe space, and are also proud of most of those scientists who were ableto send their rockets and strike in the lunar surface and extract waterfrom the moon surface.(Contd. by 2U)

147Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009-MKS-TMV-NB/2U/3.40SHRI SHYAMAL CHAKRABORTY (CONTD.): But, unfortunately, ourGovernment has tied the prices of essential commodities with the rocketand as the rocket goes high the price also goes high. When the rockethits the moon, the price rocket is hitting the human being and extractingtears from the eyes of the aam admi. So, this is the situation in ourcountry. Now I am sure that there is one problem which we are facingin India. It is drought. No doubt about it. Flood is a regularphenomenon. It happens every year. So, when the planners and theGovernment make the plans for the benefit of the people, they have totake into consideration these things. Mr. Vice-Chairman, Sir, drought isthis year's phenomenon. But price rise is a regular phenomenon and itis rising almost every year.My previous speaker attributed the responsibility to the StateGovernments, without naming or blaming any State or any political party.Okay. That is her privilege. But what I would like to say is that theanti-hoarding clause has been diluted in such a way that it preventedthe State Government from taking steps against the hoarders and blackmarketeersand they can't be arrested and punished. Raids can beorganised. It is the West Bengal people who opened their eyes againstthe black-marketeers and tried to see that the land is fragmented insuch a way that it is not possible for some people, the blackmarketeers,to hoard their stock. But that is a different case. Theproblem is that it is the State Government which is increasing the priceof inputs of agriculture. Take the price of fertilizer. Who is determiningthe price of fertilizer? It is the Central Government. Who is raising or

148Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009determining the price of electricity? That is done as per the ElectricityBill which was introduced in 2003 and passed by the previousGovernment. The electricity rate is growing every year. Electricity issuch an ingredient that both agriculture and industry are dependent onthat.The next point is the support price. The support price is fixed insuch way that it is too inadequate to compensate the production cost oftoday. That is most important. What are the hoarders doing? They arepaying bigger amount than the support price for the agricultural product.The peasants or farmers are compelled to sell their products to them.The reason is that the Government ordered support price is tooinadequate for them.Then comes the question of oil. It is an essential commodity fortransporting agricultural and industrial products. The price of oil isregularly rising in our country. When we ask the Government, they usedto say that it depends on international price. But it is a travesty of truth.What is the international price of oil today? It is 72 dollars per barrel. Ifyou convert it into the Indian currency, then, it comes to Rs.22 per litre.But what is the selling price in the market? It is Rs.33 per litre for dieseland Rs.45 per litre for petrol.As regards electricity, I have already referred to the price ofelectricity.My previous speaker has mentioned that growth is not a dirtyword. Yes, I appreciate that growth is not a dirty word. But certainlythe growth in the price of essential commodities is a dirty word. Nodoubt about it. That is what we want to say. (Contd. by 2W/VK)

149Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009VK-VNK/2w/3.45SHRI SHYAMAL CHAKRABORTY (CONTD): Now I come to BPL, whichhas been referred to repeatedly by several speakers. What is BPL,according to the Government reports? When 77 per cent of ourpopulation earns below Rs. 20 per day, that means, actually, 77 per centof our people are poor. So the Public Distribution System should beintroduced for those 77 per cent people at subsided rates. If you canprovide tax concession of Rs. 4,20,000 crores to the corporators, why aportion of that can't be transferred for subsidising agricultural andindustrial products which are essentially meant for common people?What prevented the Government from doing that? Actually, the peoplehave been cheated and exploited by the polices framed by thesuccessive Governments. If the Government brings all the essentialcommodities under the PDS at subsidies rates, then the prices in theopen market will be compelled to go down.Sir, today a cartoon was published in The Hindu. The cartoonsays, "We can promise a 100 per cent cut in emission because with theever rising prices, there will be no cooking". Thank you.(Ends)ÁÖß ²Öé•Ö³ÖæÂÖÞÖ ×ŸÖ¾ÖÖ¸üß (ˆ¢Ö¸ü ¯ÖÏ¤êü¿Ö) : ˆ¯ÖÃÖ³ÖÖ¯Ö×ŸÖ ´ÖÆüÖê¤üμÖ, μÖÆü ´ÖÆÓüÝÖÖ‡Ô ×ÛúŸÖ®Öß ÝÖÓ³Öß¸ü Æîü,‡ÃÖÛúÖ ‡ÃÖß ÃÖê †Ó¤üÖ•ÖÖ »ÖÝÖÖμÖÖ •ÖÖ ÃÖÛúŸÖÖ Æîü ×Ûú †Ö•Ö †ÜÖ²ÖÖ¸ü ´Öë ‹Ûú ÜÖ²Ö¸ü ”û¯Öß ×Ûú×Æü´ÖÖ“Ö»Ö ¯ÖÏ¤êü¿Ö ´Öë •ÖÖê ÝÖ¸üß²Ö »ÖÖêÝÖ Æïü, ¾Öê ¸üÃÖÖμÖ®Ö μÖãŒŸÖ ÝÖêÆæÓü ÛúÖ ²Öß•Ö ÜÖ¸üß¤ü Ûú¸ü †Öî¸ü ˆÃÖß ÛúÖê×¯ÖÃÖ¾ÖÖ Ûú¸, ˆÃÖß †Öüê Ûúß ¸üÖêüß ÜÖÖŸÖê Æïü… ‡ÃÖÃÖê ˆ®ÖÛêú •Öß¾Ö®Ö ÛúÖê ÜÖŸÖ¸üÖ ¯Öî¤üÖ ÆüÖê ÝÖμÖÖ Æîü…μÖÆü ‡ÃÖ×»Ö‹ ÜÖÖŸÖê Æïü, ŒμÖÖë×Ûú ²Öß•Ö ¾ÖÖ»ÖÖ ÝÖêÆæÓü ®ÖÖî ¹ý¯Ö‹ ¯ÖÏ×ŸÖ ×Ûú»ÖÖê ×´Ö»Ö ¸üÆüÖ Æîü †Öî¸ü ÝÖêÆæÓü ÛúÖ¤üÖ´Ö ²ÖßÃÖ ¹ý¯Ö‹ ¯ÖÏ×ŸÖ ×Ûú»ÖÖê Æîü… ´Öï μÖÆü ÛúÆü®ÖÖ “ÖÖÆüŸÖÖ ÆæÑü ×Ûú •ÖÖê ´ÖÆÓüÝÖÖ‡Ô Æîü, ¾ÖÆü Æü´ÖÖ¸üß ×®ÖμÖ×ŸÖ²Ö®Ö ÝÖ‡Ô Æîü… Æü´Ö Æü¸ü ÃÖÖ»Ö ´ÖÆÓüÝÖÖ‡Ô ¯Ö¸ü “Ö“ÖÖÔ Ûú¸üŸÖê Æï ..(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö)..

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158Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009•ÖÖ‹…...(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö)..Æü´Ö μÖÆü ÛúÆü®ÖÖ “ÖÖÆëüÝÖê ×Ûú •ÖÖê Æü´ÖÖ¸êü ¯ÖÖÃÖ ‹ÝÖÏßŒ»Ö“Ö¸ü»Ö »Öï›ü Æîü, ¾ÖÆü Æü¸ü×¤ü®Ö Ûú´Ö ÆüÖêŸÖß •ÖÖ ¸üÆüß Æîü… μÖÆü Æü´ÖÖ¸êü ×»Ö‹ ‹Ûú ²Ö›Íüß Ø“ÖŸÖÖ ÛúÖ ×¾ÖÂÖμÖ Æîü… ...(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö)..ÁÖß ˆ¯ÖÃÖ³ÖÖ¯Ö×ŸÖ : †²Ö †Ö¯ÖÛúÖê ÃÖ´ÖÖ¯ŸÖ Ûú¸ü®ÖÖ ¯Ö›ÍêüÝÖÖ… You have taken more timethan the time allotted to your party. †Ö¯Ö ÃÖ´ÖÖ¯ŸÖ Ûúß×•Ö‹… Shri Malaisamy.ÁÖß †¾ÖŸÖÖ¸ü ØÃÖÆü Ûú¸üß´Ö¯Öã¸üß : •ÖÖê ÃÖÖ¬Ö®Ö ÃÖ´¯Ö®®Ö »ÖÖêÝÖ Æïü, ²Ö›Íêü-²Ö›Íêü ´ÖÖò»ÃÖ, ²Ö›Íêü-²Ö›Íê...(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö).. ‡ÃÖ×»Ö‹ Æü´Ö μÖÆü “ÖÖÆëüÝÖê ×Ûú ‹ÝÖÏßŒ»Ö“Ö¸ü»Ö »Öï›ü ÛúÖê ²Ö“ÖÖμÖÖ •ÖÖ‹ †Öî¸ü Ûúß´ÖŸÖë×®Ö¬ÖÖÔ×¸üŸÖ Ûú¸ü®Öê Ûúß ®Öß×ŸÖ ŸÖμÖ Ûúß •ÖÖ‹… ÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸ü ´ÖÆÓüÝÖÖ‡Ô Ûêú ×»Ö‹ ÆüÖˆÃÖ Ûêú †Ó¤ü¸ü ‹ÛúÛú»Öî×Œü¾Ö ×¸üüÃ¯ÖÖÓ×ÃÖ×²Ö×»Öüß »Öê ×Ûú Æü´Ö ´ÖÆÓüÝÖÖ‡Ô Ûêú ±ÏÓúü ¯Ö¸ü ±êú»Ö Æãü‹ Æïü †Öî¸ü ‡ÃÖ ¤êü¿Ö Ûêú ÝÖ¸üß²Ö†Ö¤ü´Öß ÛúÖ ˆŸ¯Öß›Íü®Ö Æãü†Ö Æîü, ‡ÃÖ ¤êü¿Ö Ûêú ÛÓú•μÖæ´Ö¸ü ÛúÖ †ÖÙ£ÖÛú ¿ÖÖêÂÖÞÖ Æãü†Ö Æîü… Æü´ÖÖ¸êü ¤êü¿ÖÛêú ¤üÃÖ-²ÖÖ¸üÆü Ûú¸üÖê›Íü »ÖÖêÝÖ ôÖã×ÝÝÖμÖÖë ´Öë ¸üÆüŸÖê Æïü, ŒμÖÖ Æü´Ö ÃÖÙ¤üμÖÖë ´Öë ˆ®ÖÛúÖê †¯Ö®Öß †ÖÓÜÖÖë ÃÖê´Ö¸üŸÖê Æãü‹ ¤êüüÜÖ®ÖÖ “ÖÖÆüŸÖê Æïü? Æü´Öë ˆ®ÖÛúÖ ³Öß ÛúÖê‡Ô ®Ö ÛúÖê‡Ô ²ÖÓ¤üÖê²ÖÃŸÖ Ûú¸ü®ÖÖ ÆüÖêÝÖÖü…(ÃÖ´ÖÖ¯ŸÖ)MR. DEPUTY CHARIMAN: Dr. Malaisamy. Your party has got fiveminutes.DR. K. MALAISAMY (TAMIL NADU): Thank you Mr. Deputy Chairman,Sir, for calling me on behalf of the AIADMK to join my colleagues here tospeak on this very important subject -- price rise. Due to paucity oftime...MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: You are entitled only to that. What can Ido? Had it been in my hands, I would like to give you more.DR. K. MALAISAMY: I am fully conscious of it. Sir, I may not be able tocomplete my task, except touch and go to the issues.Sir, coming straight to the subject, the macro-level challenges orthreats like global meltdown, global warming, global recession, etc., havegot a direct impact on inflation also, but, not to the extent, as othershave highlighted. I agree that it has a marginal affect. This is how I

159Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009look at it. I am saying this by taking hint from the hon. Prime Minister'sobservation, followed by the Deputy Chairman of the PlanningCommission, who had said that all these threats and challenges havegot an affect on India. But, it has got only a marginal affect. That ishow they look at it. In such a situation, one cannot take excuse that it isdue to things beyond their control. As far as I can see, the macro-levelissues have a limited impact. I come straight to inflation which is verymuch talked about by all. Look at inflation at the international level andinflation at the Indian level. Inflation at the Indian level, sometime back,had reached to a double digit. Of course, now, it has come down to 8per cent and odd and will continue like that. A lot has been talkedabout inflation. Sir, it is not occurring for the first time. Inflation is inexisting for quite a long time in India.Coming to price rise, as my colleagues have highlighted, theprices of essential commodities have gone up by leaps and bounds.How have they gone up from one week to another? The prices in thedomestic market have gone up like anything. For example, the price ofonion has gone up several times, potato has gone up by 44 per cent,primary articles have gone up by 9 per cent, pulses have increased by23 per cent, milk by 10 per cent, rice by 12 per cent, etc. In otherwords, the prices of essential commodities used by human being havegone up and up.(CONTD. BY PB "3C")PB/3c/4.15DR. K. MALAISAMY (CONTD.): Sir, according to me, in this particularcase, or, for that matter, with regard to any issue, there are controllable

160Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009factors and uncontrollable factors. As far as controllable factors areconcerned, they are within the reach of human beings. On the otherhand, in the wake of science and technology, we are able to dosomething even with regard to uncontrollable factors. If that be thecase, I could cite one or two reasons. One is the mishandling of theissues which are faced by us.It is on record that the Government has gone to the extent ofexporting rice, wheat and pulses recently when the prices are going uplike anything. When the prices in India are shooting up, why have theygone for export? This is my first point.Secondly, Sir, there is corruption. In the rice export, a scam hasalso occurred. The sugar prices could not be controlled even duringfestival season. Sir, the Minister the other day told us that he has tomake a balance between the interest of the agriculturists and theconsumers. While I agree that the interests of both should beprotected, but, at the same time, this balancing has to be done withoutaffecting the interests of either side.Sir, due to paucity of time, instead of dilating on the variouscauses and reasons for the price rise, etc., I would like to comestraightway to the measures to be taken so that the prices can becontained because I am more concerned about it.Coming to point no. 1, they should go to the root cause insteadof looking upon the periphery. I used to cite even a couplet fromThirukkural. But I don't repeat it here. I think, first the root cause of anyissue has to be found out and then its solution can be found out. Now,Sir, coming to point no. 1 ...

161Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: How many times you would say, 'numberone'?DR. K. MALAISAMY: Sir, when I am talking about the measures, I havegot three or four measures which, I think, are very relevant for theMinister. Sir, you had given me five minutes. But so far I have takenonly two-three minutes.MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Unfortunately, the clock is right here in frontof me. You have already taken five minutes.DR. K. MALAISAMY: Sir, kindly bear with me. I will try to finish in twothreeminutes. Sir, I am very conscious about my time.Sir, coming to inflation, the Government and the Reserve Bank ofIndia can do wonders to control inflation. They should ensure moneyflow and they should also reduce the interest rate and lower the tax toboost the demand and induce savings and investment. The Governmentshould spend on infrastructure and social programmes. This is the waythe Government and the Reserve Bank can do it. This is number one.Then, secondly, Sir, they should deal with -- some of the hon.Members have also mentioned it -- unscrupulous elements strictly. Theyshould not have any sympathy for them. On the other hand, they shoulddeal strictly with the unscrupulous elements and anti-social elements likemiddlemen, hoarders, black marketeers and unscrupulous traders whoare mainly responsible for artificial creation of demand and supplyresulting in price rise.Thirdly, Sir, there is a need to streamline the corruption-riddenPublic Distribution System. Madam, Jayanthi Natarajan was saying thatit looks as if everything is okay in Tamil Nadu. Where is Mr. Siva?

162Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009...(Interruptions)... Sir, he should not interrupt me. ...(Interruptions)...They say that everything is okay. According to me, the PDS is meantfor the poor people, the card holders. But whatever is given under thePDS is being siphoned off and taken away by some people and enblock it is being blackmarketed. ...(Interruptions)...MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Please sit down. ...(Interruptions)... It is notnecessary that everybody should get up. Please.DR. K. MALAISAMY: Sir, they should ensure that it should go to theright persons at the right time. ...(Time-bell)...Sir, coming to revamping the Food and Civil Supply Department, itis white elephant. They are not doing its job properly and they should bemade to work. You should also think to reorganize and review itsworking so that they can do their work effectively.(Contd. by 3d/SKC)3d/4.20/skcDR. K. MALAISAMY (Contd.): Sir, a mass consumer movement shouldbe started so that whenever there is arbitrary increase in prices, theyprotest and see to it that the Government is made to understand whatthe public wants. The untimely increase in oil prices has led to the risein prices of so many articles. What I am trying to say is, they haveincreased the oil prices retrospectively; instead, they should have madetimely corrections in such a way that they need not coordinate andcombine it with this.Sir, one or two points more and then I shall conclude. The rate ofinflation to be negative and rise in prices, are two things that should notgo together. Unfortunately, in India, they go together. Correct prediction

163Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009of monsoons is an important factor. In such a situation, they must buildon their stocks and properly store them, so that in case of deficientmonsoons, the needs are taken care of. In case of a delayed monsoonand deficient rains, there is speculation. So, hoarding is taking place. Wemust think about how to avert such things.MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Please conclude.DR. K. MALAISAMY: Wastage of food and pilferage should be avoidedby improving storage and processing facilities.MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: I think I have given you sufficient time.Please conclude.DR. K. MALAISAMY: Too much dependence on rains and irrigation foragriculture should be avoided and more and more agricultural productslike pulses and maize must be grown, so that food production can beincreased. Water scarcity is another problem. Last but not the least, Sir,there should be rationalisation and reduction in import and increase inexports.Let me conclude with the fervent hope and request the hon.Minister and the Government that the system must be reviewed andtightened in such a way that the measures take care of price risewhenever it occurs. They have been saying that they have been doingthis and doing that. But the ground reality is, it is not true.(Ends)SHRI N.K. SINGH (BIHAR): Mr. Deputy Chairman Sir, I think that thehon. Minister for Agriculture, who is such a consummate, keen watcherof sportsmen, must be finding himself a bit bewildered that in such ashort session of the Rajya Sabha, to be bowled twice over completely,

164Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009once on the sugarcane stuff, and then on this stuff about prices, both ofwhich seem to have somewhat taken him by surprise. For an astuteplayer of his kind, fortunately, Sir, unlike Don Bradman, this is not hislast innings and he can hope to really salvage his reputation.Sir, couple of things are very clear. First and foremost, the currentrise in prices is a combination of several factors; combination, first andforemost, of endemic, long-term disequilibrium between demand andsupply, changing consumer preferences, plateauing of our productivityand disruption of global markets and distribution. Some of these lendthemselves to short-term solutions. There are others, Sir, where thecauses are more endemic. But there is no getting away, Mr. Minister,with the fact that unless supply side responses are significantlyimproved, it will be difficult to make a short-term dent in the situation.One unhappy thing is that, unfortunately, this does not seem to be aspike in the prices from 2007-08; this seems to be an endemic long-termtrend driven by three important factors. First and foremost, Sir, driven bythe fact that meat consumption is going up at a rate which isunprecedented. Second, Sir, population, which is six billion today, evenwith the best of efforts, will hit 9.2 billion by 2050. And, thirdly, Sir, theinability for global productivity patterns, cropping systems to sustainhigher levels of productivity in the light of the changing dynamics ofclimate changes seem to be insurmountable.My suggestion to the Minister is, concentrate on two types ofmeasures. First of all, concentrate on some short-term measures. Whatcan you do in the short run? In the short run, I think that the mostimportant thing he can do, Sir, and the London Economist, about which

165Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009I had the privilege of mentioning to you, which carried a specialsupplement only two weeks ago, said, as far as India is concerned, howdo we minimise 35 per cent waste in fruits and vegetables and 44 percent waste in a whole range of other crops.(Contd. by hk/3e)HK/3e/4.25SHRI N.K. SINGH (CONTD.): This can be done by, of course,concentrating on something which he is doing, but accelerating it interms of marketing linkages, prolonging the shelf life and enabling theadvantages of cold chain to small and medium farmers. This will givesome short-term returns which will be very gainful and beneficial. Icome, Sir, to some long-term factors since the time available to me isvery short. Fortunately, investments in agriculture, which in a 25-yearscycle went down significantly to just 1.2 per cent, has cropped up in thelast 18 months. It has again gone up from about 1.2 per cent to 8 percent. Will it make up the past? Historically speaking, perhaps not. ButI think along with the challenge of making up the investment deficiency,one sad part is, Sir, that the per capita availability of foodgrains in thelast five years, and particularly, in the last two years, to the poorestpopulation of the world, has gone down. That is why, Mr. Minister, I amsure you are aware that the FAO Conference on Hunger, that we justconcluded one week ago, ended its last Resolution to say, "Tonight inthe world more than one billion people will sleep hungry." As far asIndia is concerned, in the last 18 months, 250 million people, accordingto the UN statistics, have gone under deeper poverty. That is one ofthe factors that we need to attack ourselves. We need to attack

166Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009ourselves on adaptation of cropping patterns. Mr. Swaminathan spokeday before yesterday in Parliament and he mentioned about the findingsof his inter-Governmental Report how crop productivity and proteinyields in crops are falling dramatically. Is our research and developmentkeeping pace with how to adapt with this inevitable phenomena? Howto change cropping patterns which are more drought resistance, whichrequire less water and which are less dependent on chemical fertilizersto be able to sustain the plateau of productivity? Let me give you oneexample which is alarming. Do you know Minister that the world isgripped by bees' virus? Bees are dying all over the world and that thisdecline in the bee population is leading to this huge problem ofpollination. In case of China, we are resorting to hand pollination. Whatare we doing in terms of research and development to ensure that thisbee virus, which has afflicted the world, does not afflict India, which,even the most severest knock, we can receive in terms of trying to seekcrop productivity? So, there are challenges of a short-term nature.There are those which you can do in the immediate future to improvesupply side responses. But there are more important challenges whichyou have. They are challenges of demography, challenges of change inconsumer preferences as meat consumption puts greater pressure onthe food chain, changing pastoral habits and adaptation to the problemsof global warming and climate change. Thank you.(Ends)SHRI Y.P. TRIVEDI (MAHARASHTRA): Mr. Deputy Chairman, Sir, thetopic which we are discussing today is of paramount importance,namely, price rise. In economic terms, it would mean spiralling inflation.

167Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009Inflation can be of many types. It may be cost-push inflation or it maybe any type of inflation where too much money is chasing too fewgoods and that is what we call the price rise. The price rise is visible inall spheres. I might point out that in my city, Mumbai, one square footof area in a flat in some parts of the city costs as much as Rs.1 lakh.The prices are rising in real estate; prices are rising of industrial goods.Today's morning paper says that the car prices are also going to see avery steep rise. But we are concerned here today with the price rise inessential commodities which concerns the common people.KSK/4.30/3F(Contd. by 3f/KSK)SHRI Y.P. TRIVEDI (CONTD): The common people are affectedbecause of the price rise of essential goods. What is the position? Ifyou look at the statistics -- I have got plenty of them, but I do notintend to rattle them because much has been spoken about thestatistics -- there is a wide gulf between the Wholesale Price Index, theConsumer Price Index and the actual price paid by the householder forbuying his commodities. Even the Consumer Price Index is also not oneindex, but there are so many. There is consumer price for industrialworkers, for agricultural labour, for non-manual labour and for urbanpeople.(THE VICE-CHAIRMAN, Prof. P.J. Kurien, in the Chair)These types of indices also sometimes create some confusion.So, we should have some narrowing down between the Wholesale PriceIndex, the Consumer Price Index and the price actually paid by thehouseholders while buying the commodities. Now, I think, this House,

168Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009rather than trying to put blame, should try to find out what are thecauses, what is the effect, and what are the remedies available. I wouldsubmit that if you look at the causes, one should not forget that therewas a failure of monsoon in West Bengal, U.P. and there was cycloneand floods in the southern parts of India. Today, you are talking aboutrising price of potatoes which has gone almost hundred per cent higher.But, we may not be aware that 40 per cent of the potatoes come fromWest Bengal, 30 per cent from U.P. and 30 per cent from the rest of thecountry. Because of failure of monsoon in West Bengal and U.P., thepotato crop has been affected. The tomato crop has been affectedbecause of the cyclone and floods in southern India. Under thosecircumstances, there are remedies which we can think about. The sameAgriculture Minister was proud to say last year that there was queuebefore him in his Office of people from other countries who wanted toimport rice from India. So, we had buffer stock in all respects. How isit that suddenly, the situation has worsened? What are the causes andwhat are the remedies which can be worked out? I think, what isnecessary is that we must have some provision for perishable goods fora buffer stock. We have got the Agriculture Produce Market Act. But,under this Act, the mandis are at a far distance. And, that is why,aartees come in the way and they pocket a large amount of money.There should be mandis or the collection centres near the farm housewhere the farmers can immediately bring the products and they can bekept in cold-storage for a longer period. If the buffer stock is created,this type of scarcity, which has arisen because of the failure of

169Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009monsoon, would not arise because then the things can be taken outfrom the buffer stock.Much has been said about imports and the Agriculture Minister isquite open for the imports to be made at a subsidised rate or withoutany duty at all. I think, this is a policy which has to be supported.Then, much has been stated about sugar. But, when we arediscussing sugar, we must realise that it is also a political issue. (Timebell).I will only take two more minutes, and I will only give positivesuggestions. So far as sugar is concerned, one has to be mindful ofthe fact that there is a grower of sugarcane, there is a consumer who isconsuming the sugar and there are also sugar mills. Interests of all ofthem should be taken into consideration. There must be remunerativeprice for the sugarcane grower. There must be affordable price of sugarfor the consumer. At the same time, you must see to it that sugar millsdo not die out automatically.We must also think in terms of another Green Revolution. Forthat, it is very necessary that we must think in terms of watermaintenance, or, water harvesting. Water is going to be a perennialheadache for all of us. I think, we all must think in terms of preservationof water. In the city of Mumbai, the Municipal Corporation has startedtapping the wells and they have found that large amount of water will beavailable by tapping of those wells.We must think of fertilizers. There are barren lands. The barrenlands can be converted into cultivable lands. India can have the largestamount of cultivable lands. There is Desert of Kutch in Rajasthan. Ifthe Government does not have the resources, they should be given to

170Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009industrial houses which can covert them into fertile lands like on thesides of...(Interruptions).THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): Now, please conclude.SHRI Y.P. TRIVEDI: Much has been stated about the hoarders andprofiteers.(continued by 3g - gsp)GSP-AKA-3G-4.35SHRI Y.P. TRIVEDI (CONTD.): Some figures have been given as to howmany places were raided, and, how many people were prosecuted. Sir,prosecution is not important. The important thing is to see how many ofthem have been convicted. The number is very less. The real reason isthat the Essential Commodities Act is very faulty. What we need to dois fast-track courts to deal with the hoarders. I have no doubt that ourAgriculture Minister, who himself is a farmer, is conscious of all thesefacts and he will be able to find a remedy to the situation. Thank you.(Ends)THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Mr. M.P. Achuthan. You have to conclude infive minutes. (Interruptions) His party has three minutes time. I amgiving five minutes.SHRI M.P. ACHUTHAN (KERALA): Thank you, Mr. Vice-Chairman, Sir. Iwill try to conclude within the allotted time. Sir, there is no need toquote figures to highlight the price rise. Everybody is concerned aboutthe price rise, and, people are on the move. All over the country, peopleare agitating. Yesterday, in Tamil Nadu, thousands of persons werecourt-arrested. This is not an issue of one party. Rising above thepolitical affiliations, people are agitating against the price rise. Hon.

171Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009Minister of Agriculture assured this House that there is no shortage offoodgrains and that we have ample stocks of rice, wheat and otheressential items. According to the figures released by NAFED, during thefirst six months of this year, India exported ten lakh tonne onion. Thatshows that we have got ample foodgrains and other essential items.Still, we are facing shortage or scarcity of essential items and havingprice rise. What is the reason? The reason is: the economic policy ofthis Government, and, the unbridled liberalisation policy of theGovernment. The philosophy which guides this Government is that themarket forces will decide everything; market forces will decide the price.The measures taken by the Government are in tune with this philosophy.That is why, still, the Central Government is allowing future trading inmany essential items. So, the big traders and the corporate houses inretail trade are able to corner the food items, create artificial scarcity andincrease the prices. Another factor is the commodity exchange. Herealso, big players are able to manipulate the market. The Government isnot taking any measure to prevent hoarding and black-marketing. TheGovernment says that it is the concern of the State Governments. Sir,in 2002-03, there were two amendments in the Essential CommoditiesAct. That notification was repealed only partially. Still, the Governmentis not ready to repeal it totally, and, coordinate with the efforts taken bythe State Governments to prevent hoarding and black-marketing. Sir,everybody concedes that to contain price rise, and, to give relief to thecommon man, the only viable solution is extending and strengtheningthe public distribution system. I am very thankful to the hon. Minister forcommending the Kerala Government's performance in the public

172Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009distribution system. But this House must know what the CentralGovernment is doing to the Kerala Government. Kerala is a State, aconsumer State, which is depending on other States for every item, rice,vegetables and everything. In such a situation, we are able to containthe price rise, and, the price rise in Kerala is comparatively low.(Contd. by sk-3h)SK/3H/4.40SHRI M.P. ACHUTHAN (CONTD.): Take the Consumer Price Index forrural goods, in Kerala it was 485 points in September whereas in Punjab,it was 568 points and in Andhra, it was 533 points. In the ConsumerPrice Index list, the position of Kerala is 17th. It is because of themarket intervention and the effective steps taken by the KeralaGovernment that we are able to contain the price rise to a very largeextent. I am not saying that there is no price rise in Kerala. It is there.But when compared to other States, Kerala is better due to existence ofthe public distribution system in the State. But what is the attitude ofthe Central Government? The Government of India cut 85 per cent ofthe ration quota for the APL sector in Kerala. When the newGovernment, the second UPA Government came to office .. (Time bell)THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): Okay. Your five minutesare over.SHRI M.P. ACHUTHAN: I need only three more minutes, Sir.THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: No, no. No more time please. You have takenfive minutes. (Interruptions) Okay, you take one more minute. Your fiveminutes are over. (Interruptions) No partiality for the Chair. (Interruptions)

173Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009When in the Chair, no partiality. If I am there, I would support him.(Interruptions)SHRI M.P. ACHUTHAN: The stock position improves. (Interruptions) Now,the Government says that there is enough stock in the Central pool. Still 85per cent of the APL quota is reduced and the price of the APL rice has alsorisen. In this grim situation, here in Kerala, the Government is distributing 25kilo of rice at 2 rupees per kilo to 26 lakh poor people. But according to thePlanning Commission, there are only 10 lakh BPL households in Kerala. Theyare artificially creating a situation that there are very few BPL families in Indiaand reducing the allocation to the State. So, if the Central Government issincere .. (Time-bell)THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): Yes, you have taken sevenminutes. (Interruptions)SHRI M.P. ACHUTHAN: It says to contain the prices (Interruptions) Theyhave to allot enough food-grains to Kerala. What pains me a lot is the ..(Time-bell)THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Okay. You made your point. (Interruptions)Instead of three minutes, you have taken seven minutes. (Interruptions)SHRI M.P. ACHUTHAN: Trying to politicise the food situation(Interruptions) and they are making agitation against the StateGovernment. (Interruptions)THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Yes, Mr. Achuthan, you have taken sevenminutes. No more time please. (Interruptions) Please, Mr. Achuthan.(Interruptions) Please. (Interruptions) Okay, you have made yourpoints. That is enough.SHRI M.P. ACHUTHAN: Okay. Thank you.(Ends)

174Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): Okay, thank you. Shri M.V. Mysura Reddy. Reddyji, you have only five minutes.SHRI M.V. MYSURA REDDY (ANDHRA PRADESH): Thank you, Sir.Sir, this year, if my remembrance goes correct, this is the third timewhen we are discussing the price rise of essential commodities. Sir,every time the stereotype reply from the Government is that they aretaking measures like export ban, zero import duty, imposition of ban onfuture trading, stock limit on hoarding, imports at substantial rates,bringing commodities under PDS, etc. But in spite of all thesemeasures, the prices of essential commodities are skyrocketing. It hasnever come down. That means these ad hoc measures have neitherprotected farmers, nor have they helped the consumers.(continued by 3s/ysr)-SK/YSR-VNK/4.45/3JSHRI M.V. MYSURA REDDY (CONTD.): Sir, recently, while replying to aquestion, the hon. Finance Minister said that it was because ofmismatch between supply and demand, and also due to less production.If so, I want to ask this question. Why is it that only consumer price isskyrocketing whereas the price at which a farmer sells his product is notincreasing, if not skyrocketing?I want to bring this issue to the notice of this august House. Forrice, the farmer's sale price is Rs.18 per kg. But its retail price is Rs.40per kg. For wheat, the farmer's sale price is Rs.15 per kg. But its retailprice is Rs.39 per kg. For moong dal (green gram), the farmer's saleprice is Rs.40 per kg. But its retail price is Rs.100 per kg. For arhar(yellow gram), the farmer's sale price is Rs.47 per kg. But its retail

175Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009price is Rs.105 per kg. Shrimati Jaya Bachchan spoke about onion. Iwant to speak about chilly. For chilly, the farmer's sale price is Rs.10per kg. But its retail price is Rs. 60 per kg. The farmer is not gettingany benefit of increase in prices but the consumer is paying more.Sir, I came to know that the Union Agriculture Minister isdiscussing this problem with the States. Of course, ours is a federalstructure. There will be problems. I want to know if tangible measureshave been discussed with the States; whether the States are willing totake any tangible action; and whether there is any tangible result tocontrol the prices. I want to know this thing.The Prime Minister has said this on record that the price rise isbecause of market forces. I want to know whether this price rise is dueto market forces or due to middlemen. I have shown that there arevariations in the price at which a farmer is selling his produce and itsretail price.When time is right, wrong decisions have been taken by thisGovernment. When there is less production, it will allow export. Whenthere is good production, they ban the export. For instance, the Ministryhas prohibited in April 2008 export of non-Basmati rice and in fourmonths, it changed this policy and allowed export of PUSA-1121 varietyof non-Basmati rice to help a few companies.When there was encouraging production of sugar in 2006, theGovernment of India banned the exports. Due to this, sugar mills failedto issue cutting orders. As a result of this, farmers burnt theirsugarcane in the field. Now farmers have shifted from sugarcane to

176Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009other crops. Because of this, there is this scarcity, which has pushedits price up.The measures for development of infrastructure in agriculture onlong-term basis are also not giving any results. This is happeningbecause of the paradoxical approach of this Government. I am givingone example of it. When sugarcane growers do not get theremunerative price for their produce, they do not go in for sugarcanecultivation. Instead, they go in for other alternative crop. It is not acyclical disorder. It is due to paradoxical approach of the Governmentof India. That is why it is just like..(Interruptions)..ˆ¯ÖÃÖ³ÖÖ¬μÖõÖ (¯ÖÏÖê. ¯Öß. •Öê. Ûãú×¸üμÖ®Ö) : †Ö¯ÖÛúÖ ¯ÖÖÓ“Ö ×´Ö®Öü ÆüÖê ÝÖμÖÖ Æîü…SHRI M.V. MYSURA REDDY: Sir, it is just like giving a pill for headachewhen the patient is suffering from stomach-ache. We have to overhaulthe system, so that farmers get remunerative price for their produce andconsumers get it at minimum price. Thank you, Sir.(Ends)(Followed by MP/3K)MP-VKK/3K/4.50ˆ¯ÖÃÖ³ÖÖ¬μÖõÖ : ®Ö•Ö´ÖÖ Æêü¯ÖŸÖã»»ÖÖ •Öß, ²ÖÖê×»Ö‹…›üÖ. (ÁÖß´ÖŸÖß) ®Ö•Ö´ÖÖ ‹. Æêü¯ÖŸÖã»»ÖÖ : ÃÖ¸ü, ´Öê¸üß ¯ÖÖüá ÛúÖ ×ÛúŸÖ®ÖÖ üÖ‡´Ö Æîü?ˆ¯ÖÃÖ³ÖÖ¬μÖõÖ : †Ö¯ÖÛúß ¯ÖÖüá Ûêú ¤üÃÖ ×´Ö®Öü ²ÖÖÛúß Æïü…›üÖ. (ÁÖß´ÖŸÖß) ®Ö•Ö´ÖÖ ‹. Æêü¯ÖŸÖã»»ÖÖ (¸üÖ•ÖÃ£ÖÖ®Ö) : ÃÖ¸ü, Æü´ÖÖ¸üß ¯ÖÖüá Ûêú ¯ÖÏÛúÖ¿Ö •ÖÖ¾Ö›êüÛú¸ü •Öß ÛúÖ®ÖÖ´Ö ³Öß Æîü ²ÖÖê»Ö®Öê ¾ÖÖ»ÖÖë ´Öë, ‡ÃÖ×»Ö‹ I will leave most of the time to him.ÃÖ¸ü, †Ö•Ö Æü´Ö price rise Ûúß ²ÖÖŸÖ Ûú¸ü ¸üÆêü Æï †Öî¸ü ´Öï †¯Ö®Öê ²Ö×®ÖμÖê Ûúß ¸üÃÖß¤ü ÃÖÖ£Ö´Öë »ÖêÛú¸ü †Ö‡Ô ÆæÓü… ´ÖãôÖê »ÖÝÖŸÖÖ Æîü ×Ûú ‹ÝÖÏßÛú»“Ö¸ü ×´Ö×®ÖÃü¸ü ÃÖÖÆü²Ö Ûúß wife Ûêú ¯ÖÖÃÖ ³Öß ‹êÃÖß¸üÃÖß¤ü ÆüÖêÝÖß, ×•ÖÃÖÃÖê ¯ÖŸÖÖ “Ö»Öê ×Ûú prices ´Öë ×ÛúŸÖ®Öß ²ÖœÍüÖêŸÖ¸üß Æãü‡Ô Æîü… †ÝÖ¸ü ´Öï μÖÆü ²ÖÖê»ÖæÓ ×Ûú

177Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.200995 ¹ý¯Ö‹ ´Öë †¸üÆü¸ü Ûúß ¤üÖ»Ö Æîü, †Öî¸ü ³Öß “Öß•ÖÌë Æïü, ŸÖÖê ´Öï ˆÃÖ´Öë ÃÖ´ÖμÖ ®ÖÆüà »ÖÝÖÖ‰ÓúÝÖß, ŒμÖÖë×Ûú´ÖãôÖê »ÖÝÖŸÖÖ Æîü ×Ûú ÃÖ³Öß ÃÖ¤üÃμÖÖë ®Öê †¸üÆü¸ü, ´ÖÃÖæ¸ü, ¤üÖ»Ö, “ÖÖ¾Ö»Ö - ÃÖ²ÖÛúÖ ³ÖÖ¾Ö ²ÖŸÖÖμÖÖ Æîü, ´ÖÝÖ¸ü•ÖÖê ÃÖ²ÖÃÖê †Æü´Ö ²ÖÖŸÖ Æîü, ¾ÖÆü μÖÆü Æîü ×Ûú †Ö•Ö ŸÖÛú Ûú³Öß ®Ö´ÖÛú Ûêú ³ÖÖ¾Ö ‡ŸÖ®Öê ®ÖÆüà ²ÖœÍêü £Öê -45 ¯Ö¸üÃÖëü ®Ö´ÖÛú ÛúÖ ³ÖÖ¾Ö ²ÖœÍüÖ Æîü… †ÓÝÖÏê•ÖÌÖë Ûêú •ÖÌ´ÖÖ®Öê ´Öë ®Ö´ÖÛú ¯Ö¸ü “ÖÖ¸ü-¯ÖÖÓ“Ö ¯ÖîÃÖê îüŒÃÖ»ÖÝÖÖμÖÖ ÝÖμÖÖ £ÖÖ, ŸÖÖê ÝÖÖÓ¬Öß •Öß ®Öê ¯Öæ¸üß †ÓÝÖÏê•ÖÌß ÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸ü ÛúÖê ×Æü»ÖÖ ×¤üμÖÖ £ÖÖ †Öî¸ü ®Ö´ÖÛú Ûêú ×»Ö‹ÃÖŸμÖÖÝÖÏÆü Æãü†Ö £ÖÖ… ´Öê¸üß ÃÖ´ÖôÖ ´Öë ®ÖÆüà †Ö ¸üÆüÖ Æîü ×Ûú †Ö•Ö ¾ÖÆü †Ö´Ö †Ö¤ü´Öß, ×•ÖÃÖ®Öê †Ö¯ÖÛúÖê×•ÖŸÖÖ Ûú¸ü μÖÆüÖÓ ³Öê•ÖÖ Æîü, ŒμÖÖ Ûú¸ü ¸üÆüÖ Æîü? ¾ÖÆü ŒμÖÖë ®ÖÆüà Ûãú”û Ûú¸ü ¸üÆüÖ Æîü? ¿ÖÖμÖ¤ü ¾ÖÆü μÖÆüÃÖÖê“ÖŸÖÖ Æîü ×Ûú ²ÖÖê»Ö®Öê ÃÖê Ûãú”û ±úÖμÖ¤üÖ ®ÖÆüà ÆüÖêÝÖÖ… ÃÖ¸ü, ‡ÃÖ ÆüÖ‰úÃÖ ´Öë μÖÆü ŸÖßÃÖ¸üß ²ÖÖ¸ü×›üÃÖÛúÃÖ ÆüÖê ¸üÆüÖ Æîü… Æü´Ö »ÖÖêÝÖ ×›üÃÖÛú¿Ö®Ö Ûú¸üêÓÝÖê, “ÖêμÖ¸ü´Öî®Ö ÃÖÖÆü²Ö ÃÖê ‡•ÖÖ•ÖÌŸÖ »ÖêÓÝÖê,‹ÝÖÏßÛú»“Ö¸ü ×´Ö×®ÖÃü¸ü ÃÖÖÆü²Ö μÖÆüÖÓ †Ö‹ÓÝÖê †Öî¸ü ¾ÖÆüß •Ö¾ÖÖ²Ö ¤ëüÝÖê, ×•ÖÃÖÛúß Æü´Öë ˆ´´Öß¤ü Æîü, •ÖÖêˆ®ÆüÖë®Öê ×¯Ö”û»Öß ²ÖÖ¸ü ×¤üμÖÖ £ÖÖ… ¾Öê ÛúÖê‡Ô ®Ö‡Ô ²ÖÖŸÖ ®ÖÆüà ÛúÆëüÝÖê… ¾Öê μÖÆü ÛúÆëüÝÖê ×Ûú Ý»ÖÖê²Ö»Ö¾ÖÖÚ´ÖÝÖ ÆüÖê ¸üÆüß Æîü, ÃÖæÜÖÖ ¯Ö›Íü ¸üÆüÖ Æîü, ¯ÖÖ®Öß •μÖÖ¤üÖ ²Ö¸üÃÖ ÝÖμÖÖ, ÃÖî»ÖÖ²Ö †Ö ÝÖμÖÖ, ÃÖëü¸ü †Öî¸üÃêüËÃÖ ´Öë differences Æïü, Ãêüü ÝÖ¾Ö®ÖÔ´Öëü Ûêú ÆüÖ£Ö ´Öë ¯Ö×²»ÖÛú ×›ü×ÃÒü²μÖæ¿Ö®Ö Æîü, ÃÖëü¸ü ˆÃÖ´ÖëÛúÖê‡Ô ÆüÃŸÖõÖê¯Ö ®ÖÆüà Ûú¸ü ÃÖÛúŸÖÖ,ü μÖÆü Æü´ÖÖ¸üÖ »Ö›ÍüÖ‡Ô-ôÖÝÖ›Íêü ÛúÖ ´ÖÖ´Ö»ÖÖ ÆüÖê •ÖÖ‹ÝÖÖ - ‡ÃÖ ŸÖ¸üÆüÛúß ²ÖÖŸÖë ÛúÆüÛú¸ü μÖÆü ÃÖî¿Ö®Ö ÜÖŸ´Ö ÆüÖê •ÖÖ‹ÝÖÖ †Öî¸ü Æü´Ö »ÖÖêÝÖ †¯Ö®Öê ‘Ö¸ü “Ö»Öê •ÖÖ‹ÓÝÖê… ×±ú¸ü •Ö²Ö²Ö•Öü ÃÖî¿Ö®Ö ÆüÖêÝÖÖ, ŸÖÖê ¤üÖê²ÖÖ¸üÖ μÖÆüß ÆüÖêÝÖÖ, prices ²ÖœÍüŸÖê ¸üÆëüÝÖê, †Ö´Ö †Ö¤ü´Öß ÃÖëü¸ü-Ãêüü ÛêúôÖÝÖ›Íêü ´Öë ×¯ÖÃÖŸÖÖ ¸üÆêüÝÖÖ, ‡ÃÖ×»Ö‹ ‡ÃÖ´Öë •μÖÖ¤üÖ ²ÖÖê»Ö®Öê ÛúÖê ŒμÖÖ Æîü? ÃÖ¸ü, †Ö¯Ö ²ÖŸÖÖ‡‹, Æü´Ö‡ÃÖ´Öë ŒμÖÖ ²ÖÖê»Öë? †Ö¯Ö “ÖêμÖ¸ü ¯Ö¸ü †ÖÃÖß®Ö Æïü, †ÝÖ¸ü †Ö¯Ö ¾ÖÆüÖÓ ÆüÖêŸÖê, ŸÖÖê †Ö¯Ö ´ÖãôÖê ²ÖŸÖÖŸÖê ×ÛúŒμÖÖ ²ÖÖê»ÖæÓ… ´ÖãôÖê μÖÆüÖÓ ‹ÝÖÏßÛú»“Ö¸ü ×´Ö×®ÖÃü¸ü ÃÖÖÆü²Ö ÃÖê μÖÆü ²ÖÖŸÖ ¯Öæ”û®Öß Æîü ×Ûú †Ö¯Ö ŸÖÖêstatistics •Ö´ÖÖ ®ÖÆüà Ûú¸üŸÖê Æïü, ¾ÖÆü Programme Implementation Ministry Ûêú †ÓŸÖÝÖÔŸÖ†ÖŸÖÖ Æîü… •ÖÖê economy ÛúÖê šüßÛú ÃÖê “Ö»ÖÖ®Öê Ûúß ×•Ö´´Öê¤üÖ¸üß Æîü, managementeconomy, ¾ÖÆü ±úÖ‡®ÖëÃÖ ×´Ö×®ÖÃü¸ü Ûêú ÆüÖ£Ö ´Öë Æîü, ŸÖÖê Æü¸ü ²ÖÖ¸ü μÖÆü †Ö¯ÖÛêú ¯Ö»»Öê ŒμÖÖë ¯Ö›Í•ÖÖŸÖÖ Æîü? ‹ÝÖÏßÛú»“Ö¸ü ×´Ö×®ÖÃü¸ü ÃÖê ŒμÖÖë ÛúÆüÖ •ÖÖŸÖÖ Æîü ×Ûú †Ö¯Ö price rise ÛúÖ •Ö¾ÖÖ²Ö ¤ë?ÃÖ¸ü, ‡ÃÖß ¯ÖÖÙ»ÖμÖÖ´Öëü ´Öë Æü´Ö®Öê ‹Ûú ÃÖÖ»Ö ¯ÖÆü»Öê ‹Ûú ×²Ö»Ö ¯ÖÖÃÖ ×ÛúμÖÖ £ÖÖ -Collectionof Statistics Bill. ¾ÖÆü ×²Ö»Ö ‹Ûú ÃÖÖ»Ö ¯ÖÆü»Öê ¯ÖÖÃÖ Æãü†Ö †Öî¸ü ´Öï ‡ÃÖ Government Ûúßnon-seriousness Ûêú ²ÖÖ¸êü ´Öë †Ö¯ÖÛúÖê ²ÖŸÖÖ ¸üÆüß ÆæÓü… ‹Ûú ÃÖÖ»Ö Æãü†Ö ¾ÖÆü ×²Ö»Ö ¯ÖÖÃÖ Æãü‹,

178Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009»Öê×Ûú®Ö †Ö•Ö ŸÖÛú ˆÃÖ ×²Ö»Ö Ûêú ÃÖÓ²ÖÓ¬Ö ´Öëü ÛúÖê‡Ô rules and regulations ÃÖ¤ü®Ö Ûêú ¯Öü»Ö ¯Ö¸ü®ÖÆüà ¸üÜÖê ÝÖ‹ Æïü… μÖÆü ŸÖÖê seriousness Æîü †Ö¯ÖÛúß ! ÃÖ¾ÖÖ»Ö μÖÆüÖÓ μÖÆü ®ÖÆüà Æîü ×Ûú †Ö¯Ö ¾ÖÆüß•Ö¾ÖÖ²Ö ¤ëü, »Öê×Ûú®Ö ‡ÃÖÛúÖ ÛúÖê‡Ô permanent solution †Ö¯ÖÛúÖê œæÓüœü®ÖÖ Æîü, •ÖîÃÖê ÁÖß ‹®Ö.Ûêú.ØÃÖÆü ®Öê ÛúÆüÖ ×Ûú you have to find a permanent solution. It is not that weshout from this side or they shout from that side and you reply the samething. The question is: How are you going to find a permanent solution?ÃÖ¸ü, ¯ÖÏÞÖ²Ö ´ÖãÜÖ•Öá ÃÖÖÆü²Ö μÖÆüÖÓ ÆüÖ‰úÃÖ ´Öë †ÖÛú¸ü ²ÖÖê»ÖŸÖê Æïü ×Ûú inflation ŸÖÖêmarginally ²ÖœÍüÖ Æîü, ŒμÖÖë×Ûú ¾Öê Wholesale Price Index ²ÖŸÖÖŸÖê Æïü… ´Öï †Ö¯ÖÃÖê μÖÆü ¯Öæ”û®ÖÖ“ÖÖÆüŸÖß ÆæÓü ×Ûú ¾Öê •ÖÖê Wholesale Price Index ²ÖŸÖÖŸÖê Æïü, ˆÃÖÛúß basket ´Öë ŒμÖÖ-ŒμÖÖcommodities Æïü? †ÝÖ¸ü †Ö¯Ö®Öê ÝÖêÆæÓü †Öî¸ü “ÖÖ¾Ö»Ö Ûêú ÃÖÖ£Ö ÛÓú¯μÖæü¸ü, Ûú¯Ö›Íê ¬ÖÖê®Öê ÛúÖ ÃÖÖ²Öã®Ö,ŸÖê»Ö, ×±Ïú•Ö, ÃÖÖ‡×Ûú»Ö, ´ÖÖêü¸ü ÃÖÖ‡×Ûú»Ö - ÃÖ²ÖÛúÖê ˆÃÖ basket ´Öë ¸üÜÖ ×¤üμÖÖ, ŸÖÖê naturally¾ÖÆü price index ŸÖÖê †»ÖÝÖ Æüß ×¤üÜÖÖ‹ÝÖÖ, ´ÖÝÖ¸ü •ÖÖê consumer ÛúÖê affect Ûú¸üŸÖÖ Æîü, •ÖÖêConsumer Price Index Æîü, ˆÃÖÛêú ²ÖÖ¸êü ´Öë ´Öï ´ÖÓ¡Öß •Öß ÃÖê ÛúÆüŸÖß ÆæÓü ×Ûú †ÝÖ¸ü ±úÖ‡®ÖëÃÖ×´Ö×®ÖÃü¸ü μÖÆüÖÓ ÆüÖêŸÖê, ŸÖÖê ´Öï ˆ®ÖÃÖê ÃÖ¾ÖÖ»Ö Ûú¸üŸÖß… †Ö¯ÖÃÖêü ÃÖ¾ÖÖ»Ö Ûú¸ü®Öê ÃÖê ÛúÖê‡Ô ±úÖμÖ¤üÖ ®ÖÆüà,ŒμÖÖë×Ûú †Ö¯Ö ÛúÆëüÝÖê ×Ûú μÖÆü ´Öê¸êü ´ÖÓ¡ÖÖ»ÖμÖ ÛúÖ ÃÖ¾ÖÖ»Ö ®ÖÆüà Æîü… ÃÖ¸ü, ÃÖ¾ÖÖ»Ö μÖÆü Æîü ×Ûú μÖÆüÖÓ Æü´ÖŒμÖÖ ²ÖÖê»Öë? ×ÛúÃÖÃÖê ²ÖÖê»Öë? Agriculture Minister cannot answer these questionsbecause he will say the same thing which he has been saying for thelast three times or what he said in the Lok Sabha. That is why, I havedecided that I am only going to put three points. I request the hon.Minister to answer these questions. What is in the Wholesale Price Indexbasket? What are the commodities put there? Why should we not thinkabout the Consumer Price Index which affects the consumer? Why onlythe Agriculture Minister is answering and why not the Finance Minister?Why the Minister for Programme Implementation who is responsible forimplementing the Government's programme not over here?(Contd. by MKS/3L)

179Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009-mp/sc-mks/4.55/3lDR. (SHRIMATI) NAJMA A. HEPTULLA (CONTD.): These are my threequestions. For the rest of the time, my colleagues will speak. Thankyou, Sir.(Ends)ÁÖß ¿ÖÖ®ŸÖÖ¸üÖ´Ö »Öõ´ÖÞÖ ®ÖÖμÖÛú (ÝÖÖê¾ÖÖ) : ¬Ö®μÖ¾ÖÖ¤ü ´ÖÆüÖê¤üμÖ, ¯ÖÆü»Öß ²ÖÖŸÖ ŸÖÖê ´ÖãôÖê μÖÆü ÛúÆü®Öß Æîü ×ÛúÛúÖÓÝÖÏêÃÖ ¯ÖÖüá ‹Ûú Æüß ¤êü¿Ö Ûúß ‹êÃÖß ¯ÖÖüá Æîü ×•ÖÃÖÛúÖ •Ö®´Ö ..(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö)..›üÖ0 (ÁÖß´ÖŸÖß) ®Ö•Ö´ÖÖ ‹.Æêü¯ÖŸÖã»»ÖÖ : ×•ÖÃÖ®Öê price ÛúÖê ²ÖœÍüÖ ×¤üμÖÖ… ..(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö)..ÁÖß ¿ÖÖ®ŸÖÖ¸üÖ´Ö »Öõ´ÖÞÖ ®ÖÖμÖÛú : ×•ÖÃÖÛúÖ •Ö®´Ö †¯Ö®Öß ¸üÖ•Ö®Öî×ŸÖÛú ¸üÖê×üμÖÖÓ ÃÖëÛú®Öê Ûêú ×»Ö‹ ®ÖÆüàÆãü†Ö… 100 ÃÖÖ»Ö ¯ÖÆü»Öê, •Ö²Ö ¤êü¿Ö ´Öë ²Öß´ÖÖ¸üß £Öß, ¯»ÖêÝÖ £ÖÖ, famine £ÖÖ, μÖÆü •ÖÖê economicreasons ˆÃÖ ¾ÖŒŸÖ £Öê, ˆ®ÖÃÖê »Ö›Íü®Öê Ûêú ×»Ö‹ ÛúÖÓÝÖÏêÃÖ ¯ÖÖüá ¯Öî¤üÖ Æãü‡Ô £Öß… ..(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö)..›üÖ0 (ÁÖß´ÖŸÖß) ®Ö•Ö´ÖÖ ‹.Æêü¯ÖŸÖã»»ÖÖ : Price rise Ûúß ²ÖÖŸÖ Ûú¸üÖê… ..(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö)..ˆÃÖ ²ÖÖŸÖ ÛúÖê”ûÖê›ÍüÖê… ..(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö)..ÁÖß ¿ÖÖ®ŸÖÖ¸üÖ´Ö »Öõ´ÖÞÖ ®ÖÖμÖÛú : ”ûÖê›Íü®Öê Ûúß ²ÖÖŸÖ ®ÖÆüà Æîü… ÝÖ¸üß²ÖÖë Ûêú ²ÖÖ¸êü ´Öë, price rise Ûêú ²ÖÖ¸êü´Öë ÛúÖÓÝÖÏêÃÖ ÛúÖê ×•ÖŸÖ®Öß Ø“ÖŸÖÖ ÆüÖêŸÖß Æîü, †Ö¯Ö »ÖÖêÝÖÖë ÛúÖê ˆŸÖ®Öß ÆüÖê Æüß ®ÖÆüà ÃÖÛúŸÖß… ‡ÃÖ×»Ö‹ ®ÖÆüàÆüÖê ÃÖÛúŸÖß ..(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö)..›üÖ0 (ÁÖß´ÖŸÖß) ®Ö•Ö´ÖÖ ‹.Æêü¯ÖŸÖã»»ÖÖ : ŸÖ³Öß price ‡ŸÖ®ÖÖ ²ÖœÍü ¸üÆüÖ Æîü… ..(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö)..ÁÖß ¿ÖÖ®ŸÖÖ¸üÖ´Ö »Öõ´ÖÞÖ ®ÖÖμÖÛú : †Ö¯Ö ÃÖã×®Ö‹… ..(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö).. ‡ÃÖ×»Ö‹ ®ÖÆüà ÆüÖê ÃÖÛúŸÖß ŒμÖÖë×Ûú†Ö¯ÖÛêú ²ÖÆãüŸÖ ÃÖÖ¸êü ¾μÖÖ¯ÖÖ¸üß ÃÖ´Ö£ÖÔÛú - Æü´ÖÖ¸êü ÃÖ´Ö£ÖÔÛú ŸÖÖê ”ûÖêêü-”ûÖêêü ¾μÖÖ¯ÖÖ¸üß Æïü - †Ö¯ÖÛêú •ÖÖêÃÖ´Ö£ÖÔÛú ²Ö›Íêü-²Ö›Íêü Æïü, ˆ®ÖÛúÖê ±úÖμÖ¤üÖ ÆüÖê •ÖÖ‹ †Öî¸ü ˆ®ÖÛêú coffer ÃÖê †Ö¯ÖÛúÖê ´Öã®ÖÖ±úÖ ÆüÖê, ‡ÃÖ´Öë†Ö¯ÖÛúÖ ..(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö)..›üÖ0 (ÁÖß´ÖŸÖß) ®Ö•Ö´ÖÖ ‹.Æêü¯ÖŸÖã»»ÖÖ : †Ö¯Ö ˆ®Æëü ¯ÖÛú›ÍüÛú¸ü •Öê»Ö ´Öë ³Öê×•Ö‹, Æü´Ö »ÖÖêÝÖ ŸÖîμÖÖ¸ü Æïü…¯ÖÛú›ÍüÖê ÆüÖê›ÔüÃÖÔ ÛúÖê, ¯ÖÛú›ÍüÖê black market Ûú¸ü®Öê ¾ÖÖ»ÖÖë ÛúÖê…ÁÖß ¿ÖÖ®ŸÖÖ¸üÖ´Ö »Öõ´ÖÞÖ ®ÖÖμÖÛú : šüßÛú Æîü… ..(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö)..

180Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009THE VICE CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): You address the Chair.ÁÖß ¿ÖÖ®ŸÖÖ¸üÖ´Ö »Öõ´ÖÞÖ ®ÖÖμÖÛú : Æü´ÖÖ¸êü ÝÖÖê¾ÖÖ ´Öë ÃÖ²•Öß †Öî¸ü ¤æü¬Ö ²Öê»ÖÝÖÖÓ¾Ö ÃÖê †ÖŸÖÖ Æîü… ¾ÖÆü ²ÖÆãüŸÖ´ÖÆÓüÝÖÖ ÆüÖê ÝÖμÖÖ Æîü, ÃÖÖî ¯ÖÏ×ŸÖ¿ÖŸÖ ²ÖœÍü ÝÖμÖÖ Æîü… ‡ÃÖÛêú ×»Ö‹ Æü´Ö Ûú³Öß μÖê¤ãü¸ü¯¯ÖÖ ÛúÖê ²»Öê´Ö ®ÖÆüàÛú¸üŸÖê Æïü, Ûú®ÖÖÔüÛú Ûúß ²Öß•Öê¯Öß ÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸ü ÛúÖê ²»Öê´Ö ®ÖÆüà Ûú¸üŸÖê… ˆ®ÖÛúÖê ŸÖÖê ‡ÃÖ price rise ¯Ö¸üÛú³Öß ¸üÖê®ÖÖ ®ÖÆüà †Ö‹ÝÖÖ… »ÖÖêÝÖ ¤ãüÜÖß Æïü »Öê×Ûú®Ö ˆ®ÖÛúÖê ¸üÖê®ÖÖ ®ÖÆüà †ÖŸÖÖ Æîü… ˆ®ÖÛêú ´ÖÓ×¡Ö´ÖÓ›ü»Ö ÃÖê‹Ûú ÛúÖê ÆüüÖμÖÖ ÝÖμÖÖ, ˆÃÖÛêú ‰ú¯Ö¸ü ˆ®Æëü ²ÖÆãüŸÖ ¸üÖê®ÖÖ †Ö ÝÖμÖÖ… μÖÆü Ûú®ÖÖÔüÛú Ûúß ²Öß•Öê¯Öß ÛúßÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸ü Æîü… ´ÖÆüÖê¤üμÖ, ÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸üÖë ÛúÖê ²»Öê´Ö Ûú¸ü®Öê Ûúß ‹Ûú ×»Ö×´Öü ÆüÖêŸÖß Æîü… Æü´Ö ÃÖ²Ö •ÖÖ®ÖŸÖê Æïü×Ûú price rise Ûêú ×ÃÖ»Ö×ÃÖ»Öê ´Öë ÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸ü ÛúÖê ²»Öê´Ö Ûú¸ü®Öê Ûúß ÛúÖê‡Ô ´ÖμÖÖÔ¤üÖ ÆüÖêŸÖß Æîü… ‹êÃÖÖ ®ÖÆüàÆîü ×Ûú Æü´Ö »ÖÖêÝÖÖë Ûúß ³ÖÖ¾Ö®ÖÖ ÛúÖê ®ÖÆüà ÃÖ´ÖôÖŸÖê Æïü… ´Öï ‹Ûú ÝÖßŸÖ Ûêú lyrics Ûêú •Ö×¸ü‹, •ÖÖê †Ö´Ö†Ö¤ü´Öß Ûúß ³ÖÖ¾Ö®ÖÖ Æîü, ´Öï ÛúÖê‡Ô ÃÖÓÛúÖê“Ö ®Ö Ûú¸üŸÖê Æãü‹, ˆÃÖ ÝÖßŸÖ Ûúß Ûãú”û ¯ÖÓ×ŒŸÖμÖÖÓ μÖÆüÖÓ ¯Ö¸ü¯ÖœÍü®ÖÖ “ÖÖÆüŸÖÖ ÆæÓü… ˆÃÖ´Öë ÃÖÖ¸üß †Ö´Ö †Ö¤ü´Öß Ûúß ³ÖÖ¾Ö®ÖÖ‹Ó ÆîüÓ †Öî¸ü ¾ÖÆüß ´Öê¸üß ³Öß ³ÖÖ¾Ö®ÖÖ‹Ó Æïü…¯ÖÆü»Öê ´Öã½üß ´Öë ¯ÖîÃÖê »ÖêÛú¸ü £Öî»ÖÖ ³Ö¸ü ¿ÖŒÛú¸ü »ÖÖŸÖê £Öê,†²Ö £Öî»Öê ´Öë ¯ÖîÃÖê »ÖÖŸÖê Æïü, ´Öã½üß ´Öë ¿ÖŒÛú¸ü †ÖŸÖß Æîü…ÆüÖμÖ ´ÖÆÓüÝÖÖ‡Ô, ÆüÖμÖ ´ÖÆÓüÝÖÖ‡Ô,ŸÖæ ÛúÆüÖÓ ÃÖê †ÖμÖß, ŸÖãôÖê ´ÖÖîŸÖ ŒμÖÖë ®ÖÆüà †ÖμÖß?¿ÖŒÛú¸ü ´Öë †Öêü Ûúß ×´Ö»ÖÖμÖß ´ÖÖ¸ü ÝÖμÖß,¯ÖÖˆ›ü¸ü ¾ÖÖ»Öê ¤æü¬Ö Ûúß ´Ö»ÖÖ‡Ô ´ÖÖ¸ü ÝÖμÖß,¸üÖ¿Ö®Ö ¾ÖÖ»Öß »ÖÖ‡®Ö Ûúß »Ö´²ÖÖ‡Ô ´ÖÖ¸ü ÝÖμÖß,•Ö®ÖŸÖÖ •ÖÖê “ÖßÜÖß, ×“Ö»»ÖÖ‡Ô ´ÖÖ¸ü ÝÖμÖß,²ÖÖÛúß Ûãú”û ²Ö“ÖÖ ŸÖÖê ´ÖÆÓüÝÖÖ‡Ô ´ÖÖ¸ü ÝÖμÖß…ÝÖ¸üß²Ö ÛúÖê ²Ö““ÖÖë Ûúß ¯ÖœÍüÖ‡Ô ´ÖÖ¸ü ÝÖμÖß,²Öêüß Ûúß ¿ÖÖ¤üß †Öî¸ü ÃÖÝÖÖ‡Ô ´ÖÖ¸ü ÝÖμÖß,×ÛúÃÖß ÛúÖê ¤üÖê ¸üÖêüß Ûúß Ûú´ÖÖ‡Ô ´ÖÖ¸ü ÝÖμÖß,Ûú¯Ö›Íêü Ûúß ×ÛúÃÖß ÛúÖê ×ÃÖ»ÖÖ‡Ô ´ÖÖ¸ü ÝÖμÖß,×ÛúÃÖß ÛúÖê ´ÖÛúÖ®Ö Ûúß ²Ö®Ö¾ÖÖ‡Ô ´ÖÖ¸ü ÝÖμÖß,•ÖÖê ÃÖ“Ö-ÃÖ“Ö ²ÖÖê»ÖÖ ŸÖÖê ÃÖ““ÖÖ‡Ô ´ÖÖ¸ü ÝÖμÖß,

181Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009²ÖÖÛúß Ûãú”û ²Ö“ÖÖ ŸÖÖê ´ÖÆÓüÝÖÖ‡Ô ´ÖÖ¸ü ÝÖμÖß…μÖê Æü´ÖÖ¸üß ³ÖÖ¾Ö®ÖÖ‹Ó Æïü, Æü´Ö ¾μÖŒŸÖ Ûú¸üŸÖê Æïü… Æü´Ö ÃÖÓÛúÖê“Ö ®ÖÆüà Ûú¸üŸÖê Æïü…..(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö)..Æü´Öë ÛúÖê‡Ô ÃÖÓÛúÖê“Ö ®ÖÆüà Æîü… μÖÆü ÃÖ““ÖÖ‡Ô Æîü… »Öê×Ûú®Ö ‡ÃÖÛúÖ ×ÛúÃÖ ŸÖ¸üÆü ´ÖãÛúÖ²Ö»ÖÖ Ûú¸ü®ÖÖÆîü..(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö).. †Ö¯Ö ŸÖÖê ×ÃÖ±Ôú ÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸ü ÛúÖê ˆÓÝÖ×»ÖμÖÖÓ ×¤üÜÖÖ‹ÓÝÖê, †Ö¯Ö Ûãú”û ÃÖãôÖÖ‹ÓÝÖê ®ÖÆüà… †Ö¯ÖÛãú”û alternative ®ÖÆüà ²ÖŸÖÖ‹ÓÝÖê…›üÖ0 (ÁÖß´ÖŸÖß) ®Ö•Ö´ÖÖ ‹.Æêü¯ÖŸÖã»»ÖÖ : †Ö¯Ö ¤êü×ÜÖ‹… †Ö¯Ö ÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸ü ´Öë Æïü…ÁÖß ¿ÖÖ®ŸÖÖ¸üÖ´Ö »Öõ´ÖÞÖ ®ÖÖμÖÛú : Æü´Ö ÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸ü ´Öë Æïü »Öê×Ûú®Ö †Ö¯ÖÛúÖ ³Öß Ûãú”û ¤üÖ×μÖŸ¾Ö ²Ö®ÖŸÖÖ Æîü…†Ö¯Ö ÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸ü ÛúÖê ²ÖŸÖÖ‡‹ ×Ûú ŒμÖÖ Ûú¸ü®ÖÖ “ÖÖ×Æü‹… ŒμÖÖ †Ö¯Ö®Öê Ûú³Öß ²ÖŸÖÖμÖÖ?DR. (SHRIMATI) NAJMA A. HEPTULLA: What is he talking about?ÁÖß ¿ÖÖ®ŸÖÖ¸üÖ´Ö »Öõ´ÖÞÖ ®ÖÖμÖÛú : ¤æüÃÖ¸üß ²ÖÖŸÖ Æîü, Sir, there is a percentage, ofcourse, of price rise, where hoarding is involved. ¤êü¿Ö ´Öë ÃÖæÜÖÖ ¯Ö›ÍüÖ, ÃÖÖî Ûú¸üÖê›Íü»ÖÖêÝÖÖë ÛúÖê †®ÖÖ•Ö ¤êü®ÖÖ Æîü, μÖÆü ÛúÖê‡Ô †ÖÃÖÖ®Ö ²ÖÖŸÖ ®ÖÆüà Æîü… †Ö¬ÖÖ ¤êü¿Ö ÃÖæÜÖÖÝÖÏÃŸÖ Æîü, ‡ÃÖÛúß•ÖÖ®ÖÛúÖ¸üß ÃÖ²ÖÛúÖê Æî, »Öê×Ûú®Ö ‡ÃÖÛúÖ ˆ»»ÖêÜÖ ÛúÖê‡Ô ®ÖÆüà Ûú¸üŸÖÖ Æîü… ÃÖæÜÖÖ ÆüÖê®Öê Ûêú ÛúÖ¸üÞÖ´ÖÆÓüÝÖÖ‡Ô ²ÖœÍüß »Öê×Ûú®Ö ˆÃÖÛúÖ ÛúÖê‡Ô ×•ÖÛÎú ®ÖÆüà Ûú¸üŸÖÖ Æîü…(3‹´Ö-‹´ÖÃÖß‹´Ö ¯Ö¸ü ÛÎú´ÖÖÝÖŸÖ)-MKS-TMV-MCM//3M/5.00ÁÖß ¿ÖÖ®ŸÖÖ¸üÖ´Ö »Öõ´ÖÞÖ ®ÖÖμÖÛú (ÛÎú´ÖÖÝÖŸÖ) : ‡ÃÖ×»Ö‹ ´Öï †Ö¯ÖÃÖê †ÖÝÖÏÆü Ûú¸üŸÖÖ ÆæÓü ×Ûú ‹êÃÖë×¿ÖμÖ»ÖÛú´ÖÖò×›üüß•Ö ‹êŒü ÛúÖ ˆ¯ÖμÖÖêÝÖ ¸üÖ•μÖ ÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸üÖë ÛúÖê Ûú¸ü®ÖÖ “ÖÖ×Æü‹… †Ö•ÖÛú»Ö ÃÖ³Öß ¸üÖ•μÖÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸ëü ×¾Ö¤üÖˆü ¯ÖÖüá Ø£ÖØÛúÝÖú, ‡ÃÖ ÛúÖ®Öæ®Ö ÛúÖ ˆ¯ÖμÖÖêÝÖ Ûú¸ü®Öê ´Öë ÛúŸÖ¸üÖŸÖß Æïü… ‡ÃÖ×»Ö‹†Ö¯ÖÛúÖ μÖÆü ¤üÖ×μÖŸ¾Ö ÆüÖêŸÖÖ Æîü ×Ûú ÃÖ³Öß ¸üÖ•μÖ ÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸üÖë ÛúÖê ²ÖŸÖÖ‹Ó ×Ûú ‡ÃÖÛúÖ ˆ¯ÖμÖÖêÝÖ ÆüÖê®ÖÖ“ÖÖ×Æü‹, ŸÖÖ×Ûú •ÖÖê ´ÖÖ»Ö †ÖÙü×±úÃÖ†»Öß ÆüÖêÚ›üÝÖ ×ÛúμÖÖ Æãü†Ö Æîü, ¾ÖÆü ŸÖÖê Ûú´Ö ÃÖê Ûú´Ö ²ÖÖÆü¸ü †Ö•ÖÖ‹, ˆŸÖ®Öß ÃÖß´ÖÖ ŸÖÛú £ÖÖê›Íüß ÃÖß ¯ÖÏÖ‡ÃÖ Ûú´Ö ÆüÖê •ÖÖ‹ÝÖß… ÃÖ¸ü, ¤æüÃÖ¸üß ²ÖÖŸÖ Æîü ×Ûú Æü´ÖêüŒ®ÖÖò»ÖÖê•Öß ´Öë ²ÖÆãüŸÖ †ÖÝÖê ²ÖœÍêü Æïü, Æü´Ö “Ö®¦ü´ÖÖ ¯Ö¸ü •ÖÖ®Öê Ûúß ÃÖÖê“Ö ¸üÆêü Æïü, Æü´Ö ²Ö›Íüß-²Ö›ÍüßÝÖÖ×›ÍüμÖÖÓ ²Ö®ÖÖŸÖê Æïü, ‹ê¸üÖê¯»ÖêÓÃÖ ²Ö®ÖÖŸÖê Æïü, Ûú´¯μÖæü¸ü ÃÖÖê°ü¾ÖêμÖ¸ü ´Öë Æü´Ö ¤ãü×®ÖμÖÖ ´Öë ®Ö´²Ö¸ü ¾Ö®Ö †Öî¸ü®Ö´²Ö¸ü æü Æïü… »Öê×Ûú®Ö ÃÖß›ËüÃÖ ²Ö®ÖÖ®Öê ´Öë, ˆŸ¯ÖÖ¤ü®Ö ²ÖœÍüÖ®Öê ´Öë Æü´ÖÖ¸üß êüŒ®ÖÖò»ÖÖê•Öß ÛúÆüÖÓ •ÖÖŸÖß Æîü?¯ÖÏÖê›üŒ¿Ö®Ö ÃÖÖ»ÖÖë ÃÖê Ãîü×üÛú ¸üÆüÖ Æîü… ŸÖÖê ²ÖÖÛúß “Öß•ÖÖë ¯Ö¸ü ¬μÖÖ®Ö ®Ö ¤êüŸÖê Æãü‹ †ÝÖ¸ü Æü´Ö †“”ûÖ

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183Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P. J. KURIEN): Okay, you take fiveminutes.SHRI PRASANTA CHATTERJEE: It is a very important issue.THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: I agree. You take five minutes. I know you willkeep your words. I know that.SHRI PRASANTA CHATTERJEE: Sir, the Government has talked aboutthe global phenomena not only in this House but also in theIndependence Day Address of the Prime Minister last year. The PrimeMinister had stated, "The inflation that we have seen this year isbasically due to external factors". Now, I would like to quote from theIMF indices:"After peaking in mid 2008, the international fuel and foodprices have fallen sharply throughout 2009; from June to July, 2008the fuel prices have fallen by nearly 50 per cent, while the foodprices have fallen by over 25 per cent."(Contd. by 3n/RG)RG/5.05/3NSHRI PRASANTA CHATTERJEE (contd.): The global inflation, whichpeaked at 6.27 per cent in July, 2008, had come down to around 1.3 percent by August, 2009, with the inflation rate of emerging economiesfalling from 9 per cent to 4.3 per cent in this period. The IMF says, andI quote: "In emerging economies, inflation is forecast to hover aroundfive per cent, in 2009-10, down from more than nine per cent in 2008."This is the picture, Sir. Now, I quote from some of the selectedcountries from different regions across the world. In October, 2009, itclearly shows that India has among the highest inflation rates. More

184Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009importantly, while the inflation rates have come down everywhere since2008, it is only in India that the consumer inflation rate has increased. Iquote from the source, "Output, Price and Jobs, The Economist of 3 rdDecember, 2009. I give examples, of only a few of the countries,showing the Consumer Price Inflation as on October, 2009, incomparison to October, 2008, (Year on Year Increase %). I quote:"Pakistan, in 2008, it was 25, while in 2009, it is 8.9. In Vietnam, it was23.1; now, it is 7.1. In China, from 4 per cent, it has come down to -0.5. In Malaysia, from 7.6, it has come down to -1.6. And, in India, itwas 10.4 in 2008, and in October, 2009, it was 11.5." So, the argumentof global phenomenon is a bogus argument put forth by the Governmentand that side. Now, the principle factors are domestic, and, we, theLeft, are continuously saying as to what the reasons behind inflation inIndia are. The neo-liberal policies are causing agrarian crisis anderoding self-sufficiency. The main reasons behind high inflation,especially, rising food prices are manifold. There is the weakening of thePublic Distribution System and increase in fuel prices. We had seen it inthe last Session that you did not care about Parliament, that just elevenhours before the Parliament Session was to start, you increased the fueland diesel prices. There is also the failure to check hoarding andspeculation, and weakening the role of the States. With the dominantrole of the private speculators, public procurement continues to remainlimited to a few major crops. Procurement operation was carried outonly in limited parts of the country. Big corporates have been allowedto enter into the food market. There has been an increasing reliance onimports, often at exorbitant prices, erosion of self-reliance in food

185Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009production and failure to control rise in prices. Sir, agricultural growthfell shortly in the absence of any substantive expansion of irrigation.Sixty per cent of our Indian agriculture continues to remain dependenton the monsoon. What is the estimate of the World Food HungryReport? The Global Hunger Index of 2009 says that countries, whichhave scored between 20 and 30 points, are in an alarming condition."And the rate of India has been estimated at 23.9. Who will answer this?Who will take the responsibility for this? What we see is the faultyestimation of the BPL. We are also demanding a universal PDS ataffordable prices. But the Government, as a policy, does not want that.And, they are passing the buck. Here, they are advocating theirprinciples. Besides that, we see that Kerala has set a unique example.We also have the examples of West Bengal and Tamil Nadu where thePDS is a success. Kerala is a unique example. Since the time the Leftand the Democratic Front Government assumed office in May, 2006, theCentral allotment for rice for APL under PDS was 1,13,420 MT permonth. It was reduced to 21,334 MT.(Continued by 3O)TDB/3o/5.10SHRI PRASANTA CHATTERJEE (CONTD.): It was further reduced to17056 metric tonnes from April, 2006. They are the advocates of openmarket!Sir, while concluding, together with the observations made by theother speaker of my party and other Left speakers, we, once again,demand that the Universal PDS should be strengthened, (Time-bell) TheGovernment should act against hoarders, ban futures trading, reduce the

186Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009price of diesel and petrol, end the discrimination in allotment and followthe self- reliant policy in agriculture. So, this is my demand. Thank you,Sir.(Ends)THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): Now, Shri Naresh Gujral.Please take only five minutes. ...(Interruptions)...SHRI NARESH GUJRAL: You give me five minutes and I will live with it.THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Because I will tell you the problem. In the"Others Category" there are nine speakers and only 29 minutes. Thatmeans, almost three minutes. But, I am allowing extra two minutes....(Interruptions)... Yes, generous.SHRI NARESH GUJRAL (PUNJAB): Sir, the last few months havewitnessed an unprecedented rise in the prices of essential commodities.While the Government may be sitting smug with the overall official lowinflation figures, the fact of the matter is that the Aam Aadmi, who thisGovernment claims to represent, is finding it difficult to keep his bodyand soul together. The Government by patting itself on the back with a7 per cent growth rate is very, very happy. Congratulations. But, whatabout the man on the street who is literally starving due to the highprices of food?Sir, more than 50 per cent of our population survive on just four orfive food items, atta or rice, dal, onion, edible oil and a little bit of saltand sugar. The prices of all these commodities have gone up from 20per cent to 120 per cent in the past one year. Congratulations to theGovernment for the management of the economy!

187Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009Sir, according to the Planning Commission, an average person inthe village requires a minimum intake of 2400 Calories of food per day,and those living in urban areas require 2100 Calories per day. I ask you,Sir, given the current prices of food stuff, how does he get it? It is amatter of national shame that more than half of the population remainsmalnourished. Sir, according to the Global Hunger Index that rankscountries on a scale of 100 with 0 being the best score, India has a GHIof 23.9 which is an alarming value. We stand next only to Bangladesh,Ethiopia and Pakistan. These are last year's figures. With the currentprices, we are, perhaps, below them even.Sir, in reply to a debate on the sugar prices, the hon. FinanceMinister said that the prices are going up because there is a mismatchbetween demand and supply. We all know that. We also know that wehave had a drought year, but does that mean that we let our poorstarve?Sir, to my mind, the only solution to meet this challenge is toincrease our food production, and this would be possible only if wemake farming a lucrative profession or business. According to theDeputy Chairman of the Planning Commission, a recent National Surveyhas shown that 49 per cent of the farmers would not like to be infarming given a choice. Sir, our farmers are perennially in debt, andmany unfortunately resort to suicide to end their misery. This is sobecause of the myopic policies of successive Governments that haveonly given lip-service to the interests of the farmer.Sir, to improve our farmer's plight, we need to incentivise him. Weneed to give him better MSP, and this MSP should be realistically

188Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009decided keeping in view the input costs. Sir, in 2007-08, when the hon.Minister raised the MSP of wheat from Rs.750 to Rs.1000, we saw aquantum jump in production of food grains from 69 million tonnes to 76million tonnes.(Contd. 3p-kgg)kgg-lt/5.15/3pSHRI NARESH GUJRAL (contd.): Sir, we need to give our farmers highyieldingseeds, better quality fertilizers and pesticides at reasonableprices. We need to provide them with a market at their doorsteps andwe need to give them credit at low rates of interest so that he does notend up in the clutches of money-lending sharks.Sir, I am pained to point out that when our State Governmentgives free electricity to the farmer in Punjab, we are told that we arepopulist. When the Shiromani Akali Dal Government gives subsidized attaand dal to 16 lakh poor families in Punjab, whose monthly income is lessthan Rs. 3,000, we are branded as irresponsible.Sir, it is the responsibility of the Central Government to ensure thatall BPL families ---and their present definition is seriously flawed---aregiven essential commodities at affordable prices, as only then will Indiahave inclusive growth.Sir, I would also like to draw your attention to the fact that whileprices are shooting up, we are doing precious little to prevent damageto the stocks of our foodgrains and crops. I come from an agriculturalState which provides almost two-thirds of wheat and one-third of rice tothe nation. Yet, I am sad to point out that after sixty-three years ofIndependence, we have not built adequate modern storage facilities to

189Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009warehouse our precious food stocks. Almost 20-30 per cent of our fruitsand vegetables, 8-10 per cent of the pulses and more than 8-10 percent of foodgrains are wasted post-harvest, and these are officialfigures. I am certain that the actual losses are much higher since I haveseen how the FCI stores foodgrains in the open for months and monthstogether, allowing them to be attacked and wasted by rats, rodents andpests.Sir, in the end, I would like to say that since the Governmentclaims that it has adequate food reserves or buffer stocks, there is noneed to import foodgrains in the near future, it is imperative for theCentral Government to put in more food in the Public DistributionSystem immediately. Thank you.(Ends)ˆ¯ÖÃÖ³ÖÖ¬μÖõÖ (¯ÖÏÖê. ¯Öß.•Öê.Ûãú×¸üμÖ®Ö) : ÁÖß ¯ÖÏÛúÖ¿Ö •ÖÖ¾Ö›êüÛú¸ü… ¯ÖÏÛúÖ¿Ö •Öß †Ö¯ÖÛêú ¯ÖÖÓ“Ö ×´Ö®Öü Æïü…›üÖ.(ÁÖß´ÖŸÖß) ®Ö•Ö´ÖÖ ‹. Æêü¯ÖŸÖã»»ÖÖ : ¯ÖÖÓ“Ö ×´Ö®Öü ÛîúÃÖê?ˆ¯ÖÃÖ³ÖÖ¬μÖõÖ : ´Öï®Öê ²ÖÖê»ÖÖ Æîü ×Ûú ¯ÖÖÓ“Ö ×´Ö®Öü ²ÖÖÛúß Æïü… Please finish in five minutes.ÁÖß ¯ÖÏÛúÖ¿Ö •ÖÖ¾Ö›êüÛú¸ü (´ÖÆüÖ¸üÖÂÒü) : ˆ¯ÖÃÖ³ÖÖ¬μÖõÖ •Öß, ´Öï ´ÖÓ¡Öß ´ÖÆüÖê¤üμÖ •Öß ÛúÖê μÖÖ¤ü ×¤ü»ÖÖ®ÖÖ“ÖÖÆüŸÖÖ ÆæÓü, Ûãú”û †ÖÓÛú›Íêü ²ÖŸÖÖ®ÖÖ “ÖÖÆüŸÖÖ ÆæÓü, Ûãú”û ÃÖ¾ÖÖ»Ö ¯Öæ”û®ÖÖ “ÖÖÆüŸÖÖ ÆæÓü †Öî¸ü Ûãú”û ´ÖÖÓÝÖë ³Öß¸üÜÖ®ÖÖ “ÖÖÆüŸÖÖ ÆæÓü… ¯ÖÆü»ÖÖ Æîü ¾ÖÖμÖ¤êü Ûúß μÖÖ¤ü… “Öã®ÖÖ¾Ö ´Öë •ÖÖŸÖê ÃÖ´ÖμÖ •Ö²Ö »ÖÖêÝÖ ´ÖÆÓüÝÖÖ‡Ô ¯Ö¸ü ¯Öæ”û¸üÆêü £Öê, ŸÖÖê μÖæ¯Öß‹ ‘ÖüÛúÖë ®Öê ¯ÖÏÖê×´ÖÃÖ ×ÛúμÖÖ £ÖÖ †Öî¸ü μÖÆüÖÓ ¸üÖÂÒü¯Ö×ŸÖ ´ÖÆüÖê¤üμÖÖ ®Öê ³Öß †¯Ö®Öê ³ÖÖÂÖÞÖ´Öë ÛúÆüÖ £ÖÖ ×Ûú ÃÖÖî ×¤ü®Ö ´Öë ´ÖÆÓüÝÖÖ‡Ô Ûú´Ö Ûú¸ëüÝÖê… ÃÖÖî ×¤ü®Ö ¯Öæ¸êü ÆüÖê ÝÖ‹, »Öê×Ûú®Ö ´ÖÆÓüÝÖÖ‡Ô ²ÖßÃÖ±úßÃÖ¤üß †Öî¸ü ²ÖœÍüß Æîü… Æü´ÖÖ¸êü ‹Ûú ÛúÖÓÝÖÏêÃÖß ×´Ö¡Ö ®Öê ÛúÆüÖ ×Ûú ‡ŸÖ®ÖÖ ÃÖ²Ö ÆüÖêÛú¸ü ³Öß Æü´Ö •ÖßŸÖ ¸üÆêüÆïü… ´ÖãôÖê ˆ®Æëü μÖÆü ²ÖŸÖÖ®ÖÖ ¯Ö›ÍüÖ ×Ûú μÖÆü •Ö®ÖÖ¤êü¿Ö †Öî¸ü “Öã®ÖÖ¾Öß •ÖßŸÖ ´ÖÆÓüÝÖÖ‡Ô Ûêú ×»Ö‹ •Ö®ÖÖ¤êü¿Ö×´Ö»ÖÖ Æîü, ‹êÃÖÖ ®Ö ÃÖ´ÖôÖë, ‡ÃÖ×»Ö‹ ´Öï †Ö¯ÖÛúÖê ¾ÖÖμÖ¤êü Ûúß μÖÖ¤ ×¤ü»ÖÖ®ÖÖ “ÖÖÆüŸÖÖ ÆæÓü…¤æüÃÖ¸üß ²ÖÖŸÖ, ÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸ü ŒμÖÖ Ûú¸ü ¸üÆüß Æîü… ŒμÖÖ μÖÆü †ÖÃÖ´ÖÖ®Öß ÃÖÓÛúü Æîü μÖÖ ü ÃÖã»ŸÖÖ®ÖßÃÖÓÛúü Æîü? ´Öï ‡ÃÖê ÃÖã»ŸÖÖ®Öß ÃÖÓÛúü ÛúÖ ®ÖÖ´Ö ¤êü®ÖÖ “ÖÖÆüŸÖÖ ÆæÓü… ‡ÃÖ ÃÖã»ŸÖÖ®Ö ÛúÖ ®ÖÖ´Ö Æîü μÖæ¯Öß‹

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193Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009SHRI SHARAD ANANTRAO JOSHI (MAHARASHTRA): Thank you Vice-Chairman, Sir. If I remember correctly, it is the third time during theperiod of the UPA-II that we are discussing the price situation,particularly about the essential commodities. It is remarkable that noteven on one occasion that we have talked about the rural consumer.When we talk of consumer prices, we, essentially, talk of urbanconsumer. It must be remembered that there is a basic difference in theinterest of the rural consumer on the one hand and the urban consumeron the other. The urban consumer wants low prices; the rural consumerwants higher incomes. The basic defect in the policies of theGovernment is their failure to balance between the interests of ruralconsumer and urban consumer. On all the three occasions I hadpointed out that the increase in inflation and the hike in prices have adirect consequence of the policy of so called inclusive growth or theAam Aadmi economics. Sir, this has distorted the supply-demandsituation in the country as a whole. The flagship schemes of the UPAhave resulted in a lot of money being pumped into the consumer who isgoing in for additional consumables which is a happy thing. But, thathas to be matched with additional incentives to the producer communitywhich is not coming as has been pointed by so many previousspeakers. Unless we provide sufficient incentive to the producer, it isvery difficult. If we do not do that and go on pumping money into thehands of the consumer, the consequence would be what we are seeingtoday. The fact that Aam Aadmi economics has got them vote possiblygive them to think that they are on the wrong track. They might have

194Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009won elections. It might, actually, come out to be disastrous for thecountry as a whole. I would like to make only one point, Sir.The knee-jerk reactions that the Government is giving, forexample, importing the essential commodities, banning the export ofessential commodities, imposing restrictions on the futures market, etc.,are all anti-farmer measures which will discourage the farmer fromproducing more next year. This year you suffered from drought and nextyear it might come as inundation and flood and you are not reallyequipped to meet that situation. This year you might escape becauseyou have sufficient stocks. But, next year, you might be really in troubleand don't think that the electorate is as favourable to you that time asthey are this time. Thank you.(Ends)THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): Thank you. You stick totime. You have taken less time.SHRI SHARAD ANANTRAO JOSHI: Sir, I always do that.THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: You are very crisp and to the point. And, youhave made very good points.SHRI SHARAD ANANTRAO JOSHI: Thank you, Sir.THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Smt. Stanley.SHRIMATI VASANTHI STANLEY (TAMIL NADU): Thank you Vice-Chairman, Sir, for giving me the opportunity. I record my concern hereover the increasing trend in prices of essential commodities like edibleoil, pulses, etc. The result is showing on other commodities also likevegetables and fruits. This has a direct affect on Aam Aadmi for whom

195Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009we say that the entire Government is working. So, this is of muchconcern and the need of the hour is to address this sincerely.The main reason for increase in the prices is the mismatchbetween supply and demand. That is, when the demand is very highand the supply is less, certainly, it paves way for increasing the price.The supply is less due to floods and drought conditions. In such acondition, the supply of essential commodities can be increased onlythrough import. If at all there is hoarding, we can impose stockholdinglimits. Tightening of de-hoarding operations will have only a temporaryrelief.(CONTD. BY PB "3S")PB/3s/5.30SHRIMATI VASANTHI STANLEY (CONTD): This cannot have a desiredeffect on price rise if the supply condition is acute.(Hon. Member may fill the Tamil portion)__________________________says the Tamil Poet, which means, 'The Government should be able tocreate the resources, guard it very well and then equally distribute it."This is what the Government of India is doing now.India is now facing such a short supply, particularly, in respect ofpulses and oils. The Government of India is implementing a scheme forimporting and supplying edible oils and pulses to the State for itsdistribution through PDS. But, Sir, the quantum of supply is very, veryinadequate for Tamil Nadu. For instance, in Tamil Nadu, the State hassupplied 71,000 tonnes of Tur dal, whereas, the Central Governmentagencies have supplied only 250 tonnes. Then, 29,000 and odd tonnes ofUrad dal has been supplied through PDS in Tamil Nadu, whereas, the

196Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009Central Government agencies have supplied only 4750 tonnes to TamilNadu. Similarly, 69,ooo and odd kilolitres of palm oil has been suppliedby the Tamil Nadu Government through PDS but the CentralGovernment agencies have supplied only 20,000 kilolitres of palm oil toTamil Nadu. Likewise, 17000 and odd tonnes of Atta, 4000 and oddtonnes of Sooji, 15,000 and odd tonnes of Maida and 43 tonnes ofMasala packets have also been distributed through PDS from April, 2009in Tamil Nadu. So, apart from introducing the scheme of providing riceat Rs. 1 per kg, the distribution of Masala packets is another uniquesystem of curbing the price rise in Tamil Nadu. All the important Masalaitems like coriander powder, chilli powder or even mustard seed, etc.,are packeted, which is worth than Rs. 100 but it is distributed throughthe PDS at just Rs. 50.So, here it is very clear that the supply given by the CentralGovernment is very inadequate, but still the State Government of TamilNadu is able to manage the situation. How is it possible? It is doneonly by the additional budgetary provisions. An amount of nearlyRs.400-500 crores is being spent to buy the essential commodities fromthe open market and to supply this at the subsidised rate to protect thepoor people of Tamil Nadu irrespective of the quantum supplied by theGovernment of India. The same is the case with sugar also.I would like the Government of India to take some long-termmeasures by increasing the production and also the productivity so thatthere is an increase in the supply. This can be achieved only byincentivising the cultivation of such crops and also by adopting better

197Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009seeds and promoting high yielding variety seeds and also by followinggood agronomic policies.(Hon. Member may fill the Tamil portion).________________________________________________________________Sir, there is another interesting Tamil cinema song which is worthquoting here.(Hon. Member may fill the Tamil portion)________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________which means everything is possible if you are concentrating properly onthe farmers and on the field. ...(Time-bell)...Sir, pulses and oil seeds can be grown in large quantities in ourclimatic conditions. For this, I request that the Government can give thehybrid seeds to the farmers free of cost. If it cannot provide it free, itshould be provided, at least, at 50 per cent rates.Finally, I will make just two more suggestions. The MSP is alwaysfixed at a very low level, as a result of which the Government agenciesare not able to procure the desired quantity. I request that theremunerative rate may be fixed for the essential commodities like wehave fixed for sugarcane. Otherwise, the MSP should be fixed on parwith the moving average, that is., taking into consideration the marketprice.With this reservation, Sir, I request that the Government of Indiashould support the State Governments like Tamil Nadu which is takingseveral proactive measures to implement PDS as an effective anti-

198Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009inflationary scheme and also to consider the short-term and long-termmeasures to curb the price rise at large. Thank you, Sir.(Ends)THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): Dr. Subbarami Reddy....(Interruptions)...DR. K. MALAISAMY: Sir, I would like to thank ... ...(Interruptions)...THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Dr. Subbarami Reddy. ...(Interruptions). Yes;yes.(Followed by 3t/SKC)3t/5.35/skcDR. T. SUBBARAMI REDDY (ANDHRA PRADESH): Sir, this past yearhas been very unfortunate for the households in our country because theprices of fruits, vegetables, even eggs, chicken, sugar and palm oil havegone up abnormally. This is mainly because this year, we hadunprecedented drought on one side and heavy floods on the other, andmost disproportionate patterns of rainfall throughout the country. This isone of the major reasons. The price of potato rose by 82 to 100 percent, onions by 49.9 per cent, pulses by 23 per cent. The price of ricewas up by 12.19 per cent and wheat, by 7.47 per cent. Now, there is nodoubt that we have a very knowledgeable and committed Minister forAgriculture. As the Minister for Agriculture, Shri Sharad Pawar is doinghis best to control the prices but certain things are beyond his control.At the same time, there are some remedies which I would like tosuggest on this occasion. For instance, take sugar. Today, sugar hasbecome so expensive. It is priced at Rs. 40 to 50 and in some places,even Rs. 70 per kg. Why? How to control it? Today, prices are high all

199Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009over the country and cane production has gone down by almost 50 percent. This is because in the last several years, the sugar industry hasbeen made to suffer extensively. At one time, there were heavy imports.Later, imports were stopped. Subsequently, cane was not grown fullyand cane growers had problems. Sugar factories closed down as aresult. Thus, there have been many problems continuously. TodayGovernment wants to import sugar, but the international prices of sugarare very high. Even by importing sugar they would not be able to controlprices. So, what is the option? The option is, at least, for the future,what they must do is, sugarcane farmers must be encouraged to growmore sugar. Now, cane production has gone down by 50 per cent. Atleast, in future they must be encouraged. Similarly, in sugar factorieswhich are sick in States like Uttar Pradesh, Maharashtra and variousother States, the Government must take initiatives to give them moreincentives and even ask banks to give them loans at less rates ofinterest and restructure the sick factories. The cooperative sugarfactories should also be restructured. This should be done on a warfootingand, at least, in the next one or two years, the price of sugarmust be completely brought under control. There must be a boom andproduction should go up.Sir, similar problems are being faced in the case of palm oil. Youcannot import palm oil. Not many countries produce it; there are a verylimited number of countries that does that. So, we must produce morein our country itself. We must also concentrate on potatoes and onions.The Agriculture Ministry must concentrate on some special crops wherethere is a shortage always. Every season we talk about potatoes and

200Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009onions; this is a burning issue in every season. How to solve it? Theonly solution is warehouses. Whenever there are good monsoons and abumper crop, you must put warehouses to use. There is theWarehouses Corporation and there are cold storage facilities, but theyare not sufficient. The Ministry must take more aggressive steps andencourage the private enterprises to come forward. If you have coldstorages and warehouses, whenever there is more production of fruitsand vegetables in a particular area, you may store them and use themagain. Also, wherever in some area there is a surplus of foodgrains andvegetables, Government must take the initiative to transport them toplaces where they can be stored. The system is not well-coordinated.Now, the Government must take active part in, (1) coordination oftransportation of vegetables, fruits and foodgrains from surplus areas tothe deficit areas within the State and between States in a very scientificmanner; and (2) wherever more crops are produced, particularly in areaswhere the monsoons have been good, they should provide for coldstorage by giving them more loans and encouraging public-privatepartnership, and see that the vegetables and food items are stored andthen given out when there is a shortage of food. Then, there aremonsoons and floods; this is a continuous process in the country. Eventhough this cannot be solved immediately, there should be somesolution, that is, they must concentrate on improving the irrigationsystem at the national level. Now, just as we are giving top priority topower, construction of roads, the next priority should be irrigation. If wegive priority to irrigation, whenever there are floods, water will not flowout to the sea; it would be actually stored to be used again for

201Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009cultivation. Similarly, when there is a drought, this water could beutilised.(Contd. by hk/3u)HK-NB/3u/5.40DR. T. SUBBARAMI REDDY (CONTD.): The next priority should beirrigation. Whenever there is a flood, water should not go to sea. Itshould be stored for cultivation so that this water could be utilisedwhen there is drought. When the flood will come again, it will notdamage the crops; water will be stored in reservoirs. In conclusion, Iwould like to say that even though we have succeeded to bring downthe inflation from 12 per cent to zero per cent in one year, again, it hasnow become 1.3 per cent. Foodgrains and vegetables prices have goneup to 13 per cent, 14 per cent or 21 per cent. It is quite possible for theGovernment to control the prices with all remedial measures and futureplanning, and also help the people who are suffering. You must havethe planning, at least, for future one or two years in a very scientificway.(Ends)ÁÖß ¸üÖ•Ö®Öß×ŸÖ ¯ÖÏÃÖÖ¤ü (×²ÖÆüÖ¸ü) : ˆ¯ÖÃÖ³ÖÖ¬μÖõÖ •Öß, †Ö¯Ö®Öê ´ÖãôÖê ‡ÃÖ ×¾ÖÂÖμÖ ¯Ö¸ü ²ÖÖê»Ö®Öê ÛúÖ †¾ÖÃÖ¸ü×¤üμÖÖ, ‡ÃÖÛêú ×»Ö‹ ¬Ö®μÖ¾ÖÖ¤ü… ´Öï μÖÆüÖÓ ‡ÃÖ×»Ö‹ ÜÖ›ÍüÖ Æãü†Ö ÆæÓü ŸÖÖ×Ûú ´Öï †¯Ö®Öß ¯ÖÖüá Ûúß ŸÖ¸ü±ú ÃÖê´ÖÆÓüÝÖÖ‡Ô Ûêú ×ÜÖ»ÖÖ±ú ¯Öã¸ü•ÖÍÖê¸ü ×¾Ö¸üÖê¬Ö ¯ÖÏÛúü Ûú¸ü ÃÖÛæÓú…ˆ¯ÖÃÖ³ÖÖ¬μÖõÖ •Öß, Æü´Ö ÃÖ´ÖÖ•Ö¾ÖÖ¤üß †ÖÓ¤üÖê»Ö®Ö ÃÖê †ÖŸÖê Æïü †Öî¸ü Æü´Ö »ÖÖêÝÖÖë ®Öê ®ÖÖ¸üÖ ×¤üμÖÖ Æîü- "¸üÖêÛúÖê ´ÖÆÓüÝÖÖ‡Ô, ²ÖÖÓ¬ÖÖê ¤üÖ´Ö, ®ÖÆüà ŸÖÖê ÆüÖêÝÖÖ “ÖŒÛúÖ •ÖÖ´Ö", μÖÆü Æü´Ö ÃÖ´ÖÖ•Ö¾ÖÖ¤üß »ÖÖêÝÖÖë Ûúß ´ÖÖÓÝÖÆîü… Æü´ÖÖ¸üß ¤æüÃÖ¸üß ´ÖÖÓÝÖ Æîü - "´ÖÆÓüÝÖÖ‡Ô •ÖÖê ¸üÖêÛú ®Ö ÃÖÛêú, ¾ÖÆü ÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸ü ×®ÖÛú´´Öß Æîü, •ÖÖê ÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸ü×®ÖÛú´´Öß Æîü, ¾ÖÆü ÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸ü ²Ö¤ü»Ö®Öß Æîü"… †³Öß Æü´ÖÖ¸êü ‹Ûú ×´Ö¡Ö ²ÖŸÖÖ ¸üÆêü £Öê ×Ûú †Ö¯Ö ÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸ü ®ÖÆüà²Ö¤ü»Ö ÃÖÛúŸÖê, ŒμÖÖë×Ûú †³Öß ÃÖÖœÍêü “ÖÖ¸ü ÃÖÖ»Ö ²ÖÖÛúß Æïü… ´Öï ˆ®ÖÛúÖê ²ÖŸÖÖ®ÖÖ “ÖÖÆüŸÖÖ ÆæÓü ×Ûú ÃÖÖœÍêü “ÖÖ¸ü

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204Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009ÃÖ²•Öß, ¤üÖ»Ö †Öî¸ü ÜÖÖ®Öê ÛúÖ ŸÖê»Ö ¯ÖÆãÓü“ÖÖ ®ÖÆüà ¯ÖÖ ¸üÆêü Æïü… ‡ÃÖÛêú ×»Ö‹ ÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸ü ÛúÖê ÃÖÖê“Ö®ÖÖ“ÖÖ×Æü‹… ´ÖÆüÖê¤üμÖ, industrial product Ûêú ×»Ö‹ Æü¸ü ÃÖÖ»Ö •μÖÖ¤üÖ ´ÖÖ¡ÖÖ ´Öë ¯ÖæÓ•Öß ×®Ö¾Öê¿Ö ×ÛúμÖÖ•ÖÖ ¸üÆüÖ Æîü… ´ÖÝÖ¸ü ¯ÖÓ. •Ö¾ÖÖÆü¸ü »ÖÖ»Ö ®ÖêÆüºþ Ûêú ²ÖÖ¤ü •ÖÖê mega irrigation project,medium irrigation project †Öî¸ü minor irrigation project ÛúÖê ÃÖ´ÖμÖ-ÃÖ´ÖμÖ ¯Ö¸ü ³ÖÖ¸üŸÖÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸ü ÃÖê®Òü»Ö ¯ÖÏÖê•ÖêŒü Ûêú ºþ¯Ö ´Öë »ÖêŸÖß £Öß †Öî¸ü ´ÖêÝÖÖ ¯ÖÏÖê•ÖêŒü Ûêú •Ö×¸ü‹ ×ÛúÃÖÖ®ÖÖë ÛúÖê‡×¸üÝÖê¿Ö®Ö Ûêú •Ö×¸ü‹ ¯ÖÖ®Öß ¤êüŸÖß £Öß, ×•ÖÃÖÛêú “Ö»ÖŸÖê †Ö•Ö Ûú´Ö ÃÖê Ûú´Ö ¯Ö“ÖÖÃÖ ¯ÖÏ×ŸÖ¿Ö®Ö •Ö®ÖÃÖÓÜμÖÖÛãú”û ÜÖÖªÖ®®Ö ÜÖÖ®Öê Ûêú ×»Ö‹ †“”ûê ÃÖê ¯ÖÖ ¸üÆêü Æïü †Öî¸ü ¯Ö“ÖÖÃÖ ¯ÖÏ×ŸÖ¿ÖŸÖ •Ö®ÖÃÖÓÜμÖÖ †³Ößstarvation-like condition ´Öë •Öß ¸üÆßü Æî… Irrigation subject ‹Ûú state subject Æîü…´ÖÝÖ¸ü •ÖîÃÖê without water, there is no question of fish farming. Like that,without irrigation, there is no question of farming. ´ÖÆÓüÝÖÖ‡Ô ŸÖÖê ²ÖœÍêüÝÖß †Öî¸üpopulation ³Öß ²ÖœÍêüÝÖß, ´ÖÝÖ¸ü ‡®ÖÛêú ÜÖÖ®Öê-¯Öß®Öê ÛúÖ •ÖãÝÖÖ›Íü Ûú¸ü®Öê Ûêú ×»Ö‹ •ÖÖê •Ö´Öß®Ö Æîü, ˆÃÖ•Ö´Öß®Ö ÛúÖ •ÖÖê ‹×¸üμÖÖ Æîü, it cannot be increased. μÖÆü ×Æü®¤ãüÃŸÖÖ®Ö ÛúÖ ×•ÖŸÖ®ÖÖ •Ö´Öß®Ö Æîü,ˆŸÖ®ÖÖ Æüß ¸üÆêüÝÖÖ…GSP-MP/3X/5.50(3x/MP ¯Ö¸ü •ÖÖ¸üß)ÁÖß ´ÖÓÝÖ»Ö ×ÛúÃÖ®Ö (ÛÎú´ÖÖÝÖŸÖ) : ‡ÃÖß×»Ö‹ •ÖÖê 70 ¯Ö¸üÃÖëü average •ÖÌ´Öß®Ö rainfed Æîü, ˆÃÖÛúÖêÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸ü irrigation Ûúß facility ¤ê… Without taking any tax, water tax, farmersshould be given the irrigation facilities. •Ö²Ö ŸÖÛú †Ö¯Ö μÖÆü ®ÖÆüà Ûú¸ëüÝÖê, ŸÖ²Ö ŸÖÛú Æü¸üÃÖÖ»Ö ¯ÖÖÙ»ÖμÖÖ´Öëü ´Öë ´ÖÆÓüÝÖÖ‡Ô ¯Ö¸ü “Ö“ÖÖÔ ÆüÖêÝÖß… ×±ú¸ü †Ö¯Ö ²ÖÖê»ÖëÝÖê ×Ûú ‡ÃÖ ÃÖÖ»Ö ´ÖÖîÃÖ´Ö †“”ûÖ®ÖÆüà Æãü†Ö, ‹ÝÖÏßÛú»“Ö¸ü»Ö ¯ÖÏÖê›üŒËüÃÖ Ûú´Ö Æãü‹, ‡ÃÖ×»Ö‹ ´ÖÆÓüÝÖÖ‡Ô ÆüÖê ¸üÆüß Æîü… Ûú³Öß †Ö¯Ö ²ÖÖê»ÖëÝÖê×Ûú ´ÖÆÓüÝÖÖ‡Ô ÛúÖê ÛÓúÒüÖê»Ö Ûú¸ü®Öê Ûêú ×»Ö‹ ¸üÖ•μÖ ÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸ëü ³ÖÖ¸üŸÖ ÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸ü Ûúê ÃÖÖ£Ö ÃÖÆüμÖÖêÝÖ ®ÖÆüàÛú¸üŸÖß Æïü, ‡ÃÖ×»Ö‹ ´ÖÆÓüÝÖÖ‡Ô ²ÖœÍü ¸üÆüß Æîü… Ûú³Öß ²ÖÖê»ÖëÝÖê ×Ûú ¾ÖÖμÖ¤üÖ ²ÖÖ•ÖÌÖ¸ü Ûêú “Ö»ÖŸÖê hoardingÆüÖê ¸üÆüß Æîü, ‡ÃÖ×»Ö‹ ´ÖÆÓüÝÖÖ‡Ô ²ÖœÍü ¸üÆüß Æîü… Ûú³Öß ²ÖÖê»ÖëÝÖê ×Ûú Æü´Ö »ÖÖêÝÖÖë Ûúß •ÖÖê ÝÖ¾Ö®ÖÔ´Öëü´Ö¿Öß®Ö¸üß Æîü, that Government machinery is not able to control theblackmarketers. μÖê ÛúÖ¸üÞÖ †Ö¯Ö ×ÝÖ®ÖÖ‹ÓÝÖê, ´ÖÝÖ¸ü μÖê ÛúÖ¸üÞÖ ŸÖÖê 50 ¯Ö¸üÃÖëü Æüß ×•Ö´´Öê¤üÖ¸ü Æïü…

205Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009•Ö²Ö ŸÖÛú †Ö¯Ö 100 ¯Ö¸üÃÖëü secure irrigation facility Æü¸ü Ãêüü ÛúÖê, ØÆü¤ãüÃŸÖÖ®Ö Ûúß Æü¸ü ‡Ó“Ö•ÖÌ´Öß®Ö ÛúÖê ®ÖÆüà ¤êüŸÖê Æïü, ŸÖ²Ö ŸÖÛú ´ÖÆÓüÝÖÖ‡Ô ²ÖœÍüŸÖß ¸üÆêüÝÖß †Öî¸ü ±æú›ü ¿ÖÖòìü•Ö ÆüÖêŸÖß ¸üÆêüÝÖß…(MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN in the Chair.)‡ÃÖ×»Ö‹ ´Öï ³ÖÖ¸üŸÖ ÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸ü ÃÖê ×®Ö¾Öê¤ü®Ö Ûú¸üŸÖÖ ÆæÓü ×Ûú for the incomplete megairrigation projects and the medium irrigation projects, which are pendingat the State level, the Central Government should come forward andensure hundred per cent funding to complete all these incompleteprojects, and, it should also provide hundred per cent irrigation facilitiesthroughout the country. Then only, this problem may be solved.Otherwise, we will continue to discuss it again and again, and, perhaps,will not find any solution. (Time-bell) †Öî¸ü Æü´Ö »ÖÖêÝÖ ×¾Ö¿ÖêÂÖÛú¸ •ÖÖê ²ÖÖê»ÖŸÖê Æïü ü"†Ö´Ö†Ö¤ü´Öß Ûêú ÃÖÖ£Ö", ŸÖÖê ŒμÖÖ Æü´Ö "†Ö´Ö †Ö¤ü´Öß Ûêú ÃÖÖ£Ö" Æïü? Fifty per cent of the aamaadmi is now in half-starved condition. Sir, if the Government does notmake any provision and does not give them hundred per cent support,there may be anarchy in the country.ÁÖß ˆ¯ÖÃÖ³ÖÖ¯Ö×ŸÖ : ×ÛúÃÖ®Ö •Öß, ÃÖ´ÖÖ¯ŸÖ Ûúß×•Ö‹…ÁÖß ´ÖÓÝÖ»Ö ×ÛúÃÖ®Ö : •ÖîÃÖÖ †³Öß ¸üÖ•Ö®Öß×ŸÖ ¯ÖÏÃÖÖ¤ü •Öß ²ÖÖê»Ö ¸üÆêü £Öê ×Ûú †Ö´Ö †Ö¤ü´Öß ±æú›ü Ûêú ×»Ö‹»Ö›ÍüÖ‡Ô »Ö›Íüü®Öê Ûêú ×»Ö‹ ‘Ö¸ü ÃÖê ×®ÖÛú»ÖëÝÖê †Öî¸ü ¤êü¿Ö unruly ÆüÖê ÃÖÛúŸÖÖ Æîü, ‡ÃÖ×»Ö‹ theGovernment should provide hundred per cent irrigation facilities to thefarmers of the country. Thank you.(Ends)MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Shri Barun Mukherji. (Interruptions)›üÖ. (ÁÖß´ÖŸÖß) ®Ö•Ö´ÖÖ ‹. Æêü¯ÖŸÖã»»ÖÖ : ÃÖ¸ü, ±úÖ‡®ÖëÃÖ ×´Ö×®ÖÃü¸ü †Ö ¸üÆêü Æïü μÖÖ ®ÖÆüà †Ö ¸üÆêü Æïü?ÁÖß ˆ¯ÖÃÖ³ÖÖ¯Ö×ŸÖ : ±úÖ‡®ÖëÃÖ ×´Ö×®ÖÃü¸ü ŒμÖÖë †Ö‹ÓÝÖê?›üÖ. (ÁÖß´ÖŸÖß) ®Ö•Ö´ÖÖ ‹. Æêü¯ÖŸÖã»»ÖÖ : ŒμÖÖë ®ÖÆüà †Ö‹ÓÝÖê? ˆ®ÖÛúÖê ³Öß ´ÖÆÓüÝÖÖ‡Ô Ûúß ‡ÃÖ ²ÖÆüÃÖ ÛúÖ•Ö¾ÖÖ²Ö ¤êü®ÖÖ “ÖÖ×Æü‹…

206Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009DR. BARUN MUKHERJI (WEST BENGAL): Mr. Deputy Chairman, Sir, itis a matter of great concern not only due to the fact that the prices aresteadily rising but also due to the fact that the Government is quiteindifferent about it. We are at a loss to think as to what is going on.Some of the earlier speakers have already said that it is for the thirdtime that we are discussing the same issue, namely, price rise, duringthe second term of the UPA Government. Periodically, this is comingup, we are discussing it and the same stereotyped answer is coming butthe problem remains the same. Not only it remains the same but it isalso becoming acute day-by-day. It is really a matter of great concernfor the whole nation.(Contd. by sk-3y)SK/3Y/5.55DR. BARUN MUKHERJI (CONTD.): If the Government is concerned forthe people, we expect them to tackle this crisis on war footing. Wemay prosper in many ways. We may feel proud saying that the GDP isimproving and all these things. But when it comes to the essentialcommodities, prices are rising steadily. Starting from salt to sugar, fromrice to pulses, prices of every thing are rising. We are gradually havingthe impression that the Government is not very serious about it, and thatreally is a matter of concern. It has been repeatedly demanded,particularly from the Opposition parties, that the forward trading shouldbe banned. But, it has not been banned, and no categorical answer iscoming as to why it has not been banned. We have analysed thatthese profiteers, hoarders, the people engaged in forward trading, theyare causing the serious price rise. But the Government is reluctant to

207Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009ban it. We are seriously raising this issue again and we want a verycategorical answer as to why it has not been done. If the Governmenthas some other answer to overcome it, we would not have raised thispoint. But we find that the basic reason is not being taken care of.Moreover, no action has been taken against the profiteers. When therecent potato crisis was there, we found that tons of potatoes werestored safely under the care of some hoarders. Then, the Governmentcame with the plea that they did not have adequate law in their handsto take out all those potatoes from the godowns and all these things.There are so many excuses. There may be some genuine reasons also.But apparently it seems that we are bowing down to the nature. Weare taking the name of the droughts or the floods or inadequatemonsoon. But the point comes is, if these adverse circumstancescontinue, what would be the fate of the people? We are bowing downto the nature. We don't have the power to overcome nature'sadversities. Sir, the other day, we noted that the hon. Finance Ministeralso stated that to overcome the problem, the PDS has to bestrengthened. May I ask the hon. Minister what steps have been taken?Our hon. Agriculture, Food and Supply Minister is here. Everything is inhis hands. So, what steps have been taken to strengthen the PDS? Itis the artificial barrier between BPL and APL. It should also go. TheGovernment must come forward to give more subsidies, particularly forthese food items and other essential items. If necessary, even half ofthe total Budget should be spent for protection of these millions ofhungry people. (Time-bell) So, all we say is, not only the price rise is amatter of concern, but we also find that the Government is indifferent

208Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009about it. So, they must show that they want to address the problem.They have got the mandate of the people. They have come to powerfor the second time. But they must justify it. The people's demand isthat they must have their salt; they must have their water; they musthave their rice; they must have their food. But nothing is beingsupplied. Is it not betrayal to the people? Once more, we haveparticipated in the debate. I find that it is an ongoing process. Butplease don't make it an ongoing process. Please come out withpositive assurances, and not only assurance, but positive actions also sothat the prices can immediately be controlled. Thank you. (Ends)MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Shri Bharatkumar Raut, you have got 4-5minutes. (Followed by 3z)-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------* Pp 460 onwards will be issued as a Supplement.

209Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009MCM-YSR/3Z/6.00SHORT DURATION DISCUSSION ON THE SITUATIONARISING OUT OF CONTINUED RISE IN PRICES OFESSENTIAL COMMODITIES IN THE COUNTRY (CONTD.)ÁÖß ³ÖÖ¸üŸÖÛãú´ÖÖ¸ü ¸üÖ‰úŸÖ (´ÖÆüÖ¸üÖÂÒü) : ˆ¯ÖÃÖ³ÖÖ¯Ö×ŸÖ ´ÖÆüÖê¤üμÖ, ¾ÖîÃÖê ŸÖÖê ´Öï †ÓÝÖÏê•Öß ´Öë †¯Ö®Öê ×¾Ö“ÖÖ¸ü¾μÖŒŸÖ Ûú¸üŸÖÖ ÆæÓü »Öê×Ûú®Ö †Ö•Ö ´Öï ×Æü®¤üß Ûúß ÃÖÆüÖμÖŸÖÖ »Öê ¸üÆüÖ ÆæÓü… ŒμÖÖë×Ûú †Ö•Ö ÛúÖ ×¾ÖÂÖμÖ Æîü -´ÖÆÓüÝÖÖ‡Ô, μÖÆü ´ÖÆÓüÝÖÖ‡Ô ×¾ÖÂÖμÖ ‹êÃÖê †Ö´Ö †Ö¤ü´Öß ÛúÖ Æîü ×•ÖÃÖÛúÖ ×¤ü»Ö ÃÖëÃÖêŒÃÖ ²ÖœÍü®Öê ÃÖê ˆ”û»ÖŸÖÖ®ÖÆüà †Öî¸ü •Öß0›üß0¯Öß0 ÝÖÏÖê£Ö Ûêú ²Ö›Íêü-²Ö›üÍê †ÖÓÛú›Íêü ˆÃÖÛêú ×»Ö‹ ÛúÖê‡Ô ´ÖÖμÖ®ÖÖ ®ÖÆüà ¸üÜÖŸÖê… ‹êÃÖê×¾ÖÂÖμÖ ¯Ö¸ü ´ÖãôÖê ²ÖÖê»Ö®ÖÖ Æîü… ´ÖãôÖê »ÖÝÖŸÖÖ Æîü ×Ûú ´Öï †Ö×ÜÖ¸üß ¾ÖŒŸÖÖ ÆæÓü, ²ÖÆãüŸÖ ÃÖÖ¸êü ´Öã§êü ŸÖÖê †Ö“ÖãÛêú Æïü, ´ÖãôÖê ×ÃÖ±Ôú ¤üÖê-ŸÖß®Ö ÃÖ¾ÖÖ»Ö †Ö¯ÖæÙŸÖ ´ÖÓ¡Öß ÃÖê ¯Öæ”û®Öê Æïü… ŒμÖÖ †Ö¯Ö®Öê μÖÆü ¤êüÜÖÖ Æîü ×Ûú×•Ö®Ö “Öß•ÖÖë Ûêú ¤üÖ´Ö ´ÖÖÛìúü ´Öë ²ÖœÍêü Æïü, ´ÖîÃÖæ¸üÖ ¸êüøüß •Öß ®Öê †Ö¯ÖÛúÖê ¯Öæ¸üÖ ×ÆüÃÖÖ²Ö ×¤üμÖÖ ×Ûú ˆ®ÖÛúÖ•ÖÖê ˆŸ¯ÖÖ¤üÛú Æîü ˆÃÖê ×ÛúŸÖ®ÖÖ ³ÖÖ¾Ö ×´Ö»ÖŸÖÖ Æîü… †Ö•Ö ³Öß †Ö»Öæ ÛúÖ ˆŸ¯ÖÖ¤ü®Ö Ûú¸ü®Öê ¾ÖÖ»Öê •ÖÖê»ÖÖêÝÖ Æïü, ˆ®ÆüÖë®Öê ×•ÖŸÖ®ÖÖ ‡®Ö¯Öãü ×¤üμÖÖ ˆŸÖ®ÖÖ ³Öß ˆ®ÖÛúÖê ×¸üü®ÖÔ ®ÖÆüà ×´Ö»Ö ¸üÆüÖ Æîü †Öî¸ü †Ö•Ö†Ö»Öæ Ûêú ¤üÖ´Ö ‹êÃÖê ÆüÖê ÝÖ‹ ×Ûú ×²Ö®ÖÖ †Ö»Öæ Ûêú ÃÖ²•Öß ²Ö®Ö®Öê »ÖÝÖß Æîü… ˆ¯ÖÃÖ³ÖÖ¯Ö×ŸÖ ´ÖÆüÖê¤üμÖ, ‹Ûú¤æüÃÖ¸üß ²ÖÖŸÖ μÖÆü Æîü ×Ûú ‹Ûú ŸÖ¸ü±ú Æü´Ö ²ÖÖê»Ö ¸üÆêü Æïü ×Ûú ‹ÃÖë×¿ÖμÖ»Ö Ûú´ÖÖò×›üüß•Ö ´ÖÆÓüÝÖß ÆüÖêŸÖß •ÖÖ¸üÆüß Æïü… ´ÖÓ¡Öß •Öß ®Öê ¯ÖÆü»Öê ÛúÆüÖ £ÖÖ ×Ûú μÖÆü ¤üÖ´Ö ŸÖÖê †ÝÖ»Öê ŸÖß®Ö-“ÖÖ¸ü ´ÖÆüß®ÖÖë ´Öë ²ÖœÍü®Öê ¾ÖÖ»ÖêÆïü… ‹Ûú ŸÖ¸ü±ú ‹ÃÖë×¿ÖμÖ»Ö Ûú´ÖÖò×›üüß•Ö Ûêú ¤üÖ´Ö ²ÖœÍüŸÖê Æïü, ¤æüÃÖ¸üß •ÖÝÖÆü ²Ö›Íüß-²Ö›Íüß ÛúÖ¸ü, ²Ö›Íêü-²Ö›Íüê üß0¾Öß0 ÃÖîËüÃÖ, ÛúÖòÃ´Öê×üÛú ¯ÖÖˆ›ü¸ü, æü£Ö ¯ÖêÃü •ÖîÃÖß “Öß•Öë •ÖÖê ‰Óú“Öê »ÖÖêÝÖÖë Ûúß ¾ÖÃŸÖã‹Ó Æïü,ˆ®ÖÛêú ¤üÖ´Ö Ûú´Ö ÆüÖêŸÖê •ÖÖ ¸üÆêü Æïü, ŒμÖÖë×Ûú ¾Öê ²Ö›Íêü-²Ö›Íêü ‹›ü¾ÖüÖÔ‡•Ö´Öëü üß0¾Öß0 ¯Ö¸ü ¤êüŸÖê Æïü ŸÖ£ÖÖˆ®ÖÛêú Ûú´Ö ¤üÖ´ÖÖë Ûúß ‹›ü¾ÖüÖÔ‡•Ö´Öëü üß0¾Öß0 ¯Ö¸ü ¤üßÜÖŸÖß Æîü… Æü´Ö æü£Ö ¯ÖêÃü ÜÖÖÛú¸ü ×•Ö®¤üÖ®ÖÆüà ¸üÆü ÃÖÛúŸÖê, Æü´Ö ÛúÖòÃ´Öê×üÛú ¯ÖÖˆ›ü¸ü ÜÖÖ ®ÖÆüà ÃÖÛúŸÖê, »Öê×Ûú®Ö ˆ®ÖÛêú ¤üÖ´Ö †Ö¯Ö ‘ÖüÖŸÖê •ÖÖ¸üÆêü Æïü… μÖÆü †Ö¯ÖÛúß ŒμÖÖ ¯ÖÖò×»ÖÃÖß Æîü? ´ÖãôÖê »ÖÝÖŸÖÖ Æîü ×Ûú μÖÆü •ÖÖê ‹ÃÖë×¿ÖμÖ»Ö Ûú´ÖÖò×›üüß•Ö Ûúß´Öæ»μÖ ¾Öé×¨ü ÆüÖê ¸üÆüß Æîü, μÖÆü ´Öî®Ö ´Öê›ü Æîü, μÖÆü ®ÖîÃÖÙÝÖÛú Ûéú¯ÖÖ ÃÖê ®ÖÆüà Æãü‡Ô Æîü… Ûéú×ÂÖ ´ÖÓ¡Öß´ÖÆüÖ¸ÖÂÒü ÃÖê †ÖŸÖê Æïü, ´ÖÆüÖ¸üÖÂÒü ´Öë 1995 ÃÖê 1999 ŸÖÛú ×¿Ö¾Ö ÃÖê®ÖÖ †Öî¸ü ³ÖÖ•Ö¯ÖÖ ÛúÖ ¿ÖÖÃÖ®Ö £ÖÖ…ˆÃÖ ÃÖ´ÖμÖ ´ÖÓ¡ÖÖ»ÖμÖ Ûêú ÃÖÖ´Ö®Öê ‹Ûú ²Ö›ÍüÖ ²ÖÖê›Ôü »ÖÝÖÖμÖÖ ÝÖμÖÖ £ÖÖ †Öî¸ü ˆÃÖ ¯Ö¸ü ¯ÖÖÓ“Ö ‹ÃÖë×¿ÖμÖ»ÖÛú´ÖÖò×›üüß•Ö Ûêú ¤üÖ´Ö ×»ÖÜÖê ÝÖ‹ £Öê †Öî¸ü ÃÖÖœÍêü “ÖÖ¸ü ÃÖÖ»Ö ¾ÖÆüß Ûêú ¾ÖÆüß ¤üÖ´Ö ¸üÆêü, ˆÃÖ´Öë ‹Ûú ¯ÖîÃÖêÛúß ¾Öé×¨ü ®ÖÆüà Æãü‡Ô… ‡ÃÖÛúÖ ´ÖŸÖ»Ö²Ö μÖÆü Æîü ×Ûú †ÝÖ¸ü †Ö¯ÖÛúß ¯ÖÏ¿ÖÖÃÖ®Ö ¯Ö¸ü Ûú´ÖÖÓ›ü Æîü, †ÝÖ¸ü

210Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009†Ö¯ÖÛúß ®Öß×ŸÖ ÃÖÖ±ú Æîü †Öî¸ü †ÝÖ¸ü ¾ÖÆüÖÓ ¯Ö¸ü ÒüÖÓÃÖ×¯Ö¸ëüÃÖß Æîü ŸÖÖê ³ÖÖ¾Ö ²ÖœÍü ®ÖÆüà ÃÖÛúŸÖê… ´ÖãôÖê»ÖÝÖŸÖÖ Æîü ×Ûú μÖÆüß ¯ÖÏμÖÖêÝÖ †²Ö †Ö¯Ö †Öî¸ü ¸üÖ•μÖ ÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸üÖë ´Öë ŒμÖÖë ®ÖÆüà Ûú¸üŸÖê, ŒμÖÖë ®ÖÆüà ‹êÃÖê²ÖÖê›Ôü »ÖÝÖÖŸÖê ×Ûú μÖÆü-μÖÆü ¤üÖ´Ö Æïü †Öî¸ü μÖê ‡ŸÖ®Öê ÃÖÖ»Ö ŸÖÛú ÛúÖμÖ´Ö ¸üÆëüÝÖê… ˆÃÖÛêú ×»Ö‹ ‹Ûú ®Öß×ŸÖÛúß †Ö¾Ö¿μÖŸÖÖ Æîü…ˆ¯ÖÃÖ³ÖÖ¯Ö×ŸÖ ´ÖÆüÖê¤üμÖ, •μÖÖ¤üÖ ®ÖÆüà ²ÖÖê»ÖæÓÝÖÖ »Öê×Ûú®Ö ´Öï †¸ü²Ö®Ö ¯Öã†¸ü Ûêú ²ÖÖ¸êü ´Öë £ÖÖê›Íüß ÃÖß²ÖÖŸÖ Ûú¸ü®ÖÖ “ÖÖÆŸÖÖ ÆæÓü, ´Öï ´Öã´²Ö‡Ô ÃÖê †ÖŸÖÖ ÆæÓü, Æü´ÖÖ¸êü †ÖÃÖ¯ÖÖÃÖ Ûúß ŸÖß®Ö ±êú×´Ö»Öß•Ö ÛúÖ ÃÖ¾Öì ×ÛúμÖÖÝÖμÖÖ… ‹Ûú ±êú×´Ö»Öß Æîü, ×•ÖÃÖ´Öë ¯Ö×ŸÖ ²Öß0‹´Ö0ÃÖß0 -´Öã´²Ö‡Ô ´μÖæ×®ÖÃ¯Ö»Ö ÛúÖ¯ÖÖì¸êü¿Ö®Ö ´Öë »ÖÖê†¸ü×›ü×¾Ö•Ö®Ö»Ö Œ»ÖÛÔú Æîü, ˆÃÖÛúß ¾ÖÖ‡±ú ÆüÖˆÃÖ ¾ÖÖ‡±ú Æîü, ˆ®ÖÛêú ¤üÖê ÃÛæú»Ö ÝÖÖê‡ÓÝÖ ²Ö““Öê Æïü… ˆ®ÖÛúß´ÖÖ×ÃÖÛú †Ö´Ö¤ü®Öß 18 Æü•ÖÖ¸ü ¹ý¯Ö‹ Æîü… ‡ÃÖ 18 Æü•ÖÖ¸ü ¹ý¯Ö‹ ´Öë ˆ®ÖÛúß •ÖÖê ÝÖÏÖêÃÖ¸üß ÛúÖ ÜÖ“ÖÖÔ Æîü¾ÖÆü 15 Æü•ÖÖ¸ü ¹ý¯ÖμÖÖ Æîü… ¤æüÃÖ¸üß ¯»Ö´²Ö¸ü Ûúß ±êú×´Ö»Öß Æîü, ˆÃÖÛúß ¾ÖÖ‡±ú ´Öê›ü ÃÖ¾Öíü Æîü, ˆÃÖÛúß´ÖÖ×ÃÖÛú †Ö´Ö¤ü®Öß 8 Æü•ÖÖ¸ü ¹ý¯Ö‹ Æîü… ˆÃÖÛúß ÝÖÏÖêÃÖ¸üß ÛúÖ ×²Ö»Ö 6 Æü•ÖÖ¸ü ¹ý¯Ö‹ Æîü… •ÖÖê ŸÖßÃÖ¸üß±êú×´Ö»Öß Æîü ¾ÖÆü Æü´ÖÖ¸üß ×²ÖØ»›üÝÖ ÛúÖ ×ÃÖŒμÖÖê×¸üüß ÝÖÖ›Ôü Æîü, ˆÃÖÛúß ¾ÖÖ‡±ú ÃÖ±úÖ‡Ô ¾ÖÛÔú¸ü Æîü…ˆ®ÖÛúß †Ö´Ö¤ü®Öß 6 Æü•ÖÖ¸ü ¹ý¯ÖμÖÖ Æîü… ˆ®ÖÛúß ÝÖÏÖêÃÖ¸üß ÛúÖ ÜÖ“ÖÖÔ 5 Æü•ÖÖ¸ü ¹ý¯ÖμÖÖ Æîü… †ÝÖ¸ü‡ŸÖ®ÖÖ ÜÖ“ÖÖÔ ÆüÖê ¸üÆüÖ Æîü ŸÖÖê ˆÃÖÛêú †ÖÝÖê ˆÃÖÛúß ÆüÖ‰úØÃÖÝÖ Æîü, ˆÃÖÛúÖ ‡»Öê×ŒÒü×ÃÖüßü ×²Ö»Ö Æîü,ˆ®ÖÛêú ²Ö““ÖÖë Ûúß ¯ÖœÍüÖ‡Ô Æîü, ˆ®ÖÛúÖ Œ»ÖÖêØ¤üÝÖ Æîü, ˆ®ÖÛúÖ Ûú´μÖæØüÝÖ ÛúÖ ÜÖ“ÖÖÔ Æîü, ŸÖÖê ‡ÃÖ ŸÖ¸üÆü ÃÖêμÖÆü ‹Ûú ÝÖ¸üß²Ö †Ö¤ü´Öß ÛúÆüÖÓ ÃÖê Ø•Ö¤üÖ ¸üÆêüÝÖÖË? ŒμÖÖ ÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸ü ®Öê ÃÖÖê“ÖÖ Æîü ×Ûú μÖÆü ÝÖ¸üß²Ö †Ö¤ü´Öß,†Ö´Ö †Ö¤ü´Öß ×•ÖÃÖÛúß †Ö¯Ö ²ÖÖŸÖë Ûú¸üŸÖê ¸üÆüÖê, μÖÆü ÛîúÃÖê ×•Ö®¤üÖ ¸üÆü®Öê ¾ÖÖ»ÖÖ Æîü? †Ö¯Ö ²ÖÖê»Ö ¸üÆêü ÆïüμÖÛúÖμÖÛú ²ÖÖ×¸ü¿Ö Æãü‡Ô, ‡ÃÖ×»Ö‹ †Ö¯ÖÛêú ¯ÖÖÃÖ †®ÖÖ•Ö ®ÖÆüà Æîü ‡ÃÖ×»Ö‹ †®ÖÖ•Ö Ûêú ¤üÖ´Ö ²ÖœÍ ¸üÆêü Æïü,•ÖÖê ÃÖÆüß ®ÖÆüà Æîü… †Ö¯Ö ´ÖÆüÖ¸üÖÂÒü ÃÖê †ÖŸÖê ÆüÖê… ´Öï ´ÖÆüÖ¸üÖÂÒü Ûúß ‹Ûú ²ÖÖŸÖ †Ö¯ÖÛúÖê ²ÖŸÖ»ÖÖ®ÖÖ“ÖÖÆüŸÖÖ ÆæÓü ×Ûú ´ÖÆüÖ¸üÖÂÒü ´Öë •ÖÖê ÛúÖê†Ö¯Ö¸êü×ü¾Ö ¿ÖãÝÖ¸ü ±îúŒÒüß•Ö Æïü, •ÖÖê †Ö•ÖÛú»Ö ÃÖÖ‡›ü ×²Ö•Ö®ÖêÃÖÛú¸üÛêú ¿Ö¸üÖ²Ö ²Ö®ÖÖŸÖê £Öê, ‡ÃÖ´Öë ÃÖê Ûú‡Ô ¿ÖãÝÖ¸ü ‡Þ›üÃÒüß•Ö ÛúÖê †Ö¯Ö®Öê “ÖÖ¾Ö»Ö, ÝÖêÆæÓü, ²ÖÖ•Ö¸üÖ †Öî¸ü•¾ÖÖ¸ü ÃÖê ×»ÖÛòú¸ü ¯ÖÏÖê›üŒ¿Ö®Ö Ûêú »ÖÖ‡ÃÖëÃÖ ¤êüü ¸üÜÖê Æïü… »ÖÖêÝÖÖë ÛúÖê ÜÖÖ®Öê Ûúê ×»Ö‹ †®ÖÖ•Ö ®ÖÆüà,»Öê×Ûú®Ö ×»ÖÛòú¸ü ²Ö®ÖÖ®Öê Ûêú ×»Ö‹, ¿Ö¸üÖ²Ö ²Ö®ÖÖ®Öê Ûêú ×»Ö‹ ‡ÃÖ ÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸ü Ûêú ¯ÖÖÃÖ ˆ®ÖÛúÖê »ÖÖ‡ÃÖëÃÖ ¤êü®ÖêÛúß ®Öß×ŸÖ Æîü…(4A/GS ¯Ö¸ü ÛÎú´Ö¿Ö:)

211Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009GS-VKK/4A/6.05ÁÖß ³ÖÖ¸üŸÖÛãú´ÖÖ¸ü ¸üÖ‰úŸÖ (ÛÎú´ÖÖÝÖŸÖ) : ×ÃÖ±Ôú »ÖÖ‡ÃÖëÃÖ ¤êüÛú¸ü Æüß “Öã¯Ö ®ÖÆüà ²Öîšêü, ˆ®ÆüÖë®Öê ÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸ü Ûúß¯ÖæÓ•Öß ÃÖê, ¸üÖ•μÖ ÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸ü Ûúß ×ŸÖ•ÖÖê¸üß ÃÖê, ˆ®ÖÛúÖê ÃÖ²Ö×ÃÖ›üß ¤üß Æîü… Ûéú×ÂÖ ´ÖÓ¡Öß •Öß ×•ÖÃÖ ¯ÖõÖ ÃÖê†ÖŸÖê Æïü, ˆÃÖ ¯ÖõÖ Ûêú •ÖÖê »ÖÖêÝÖ Æïü, ˆ®ÖÛúß •ÖÖê ÃÖÆüμÖÖêÝÖß ¯ÖÖüá Æîü, ¾Öêü ÃÖÆüμÖÖêÝÖß ¯ÖÖüá Ûêú »ÖÖêÝÖŒμÖÖ Ûú¸ü ¸üÆêü Æïü ? †Ö¯Ö Æü´Öë ×ÃÖÜÖÖ ¸üÆêü Æïü, †Ö¯Ö »ÖÖêÝÖÖë ÛúÖê ²ÖÖê»Ö ¸üÆêü Æïü… †Ö¯ÖÛúß ¯ÖÖüá Ûêú •ÖÖê»ÖÖêÝÖ Æï, •ÖÖê ¬ÖÖ®Ö Æîü, ˆÃÖ ¬ÖÖ®Ö ÃÖê ¿Ö¸üÖ²Ö ¯Öß®Öê ÛúÖ †Ö¯Ö »ÖÖ‡ÃÖëÃÖ ¤êü ¸üÆêü Æïüü, ‹êÃÖÖ ×ÛúŸÖ®Öê ×¤ü®Ö“Ö»ÖêÝÖÖ ? ..(ÃÖ´ÖμÖ Ûúß ‘ÖÓüß).. μÖÆü ®ÖÆüà “Ö»ÖêÝÖÖ … ´ÖÆÓüÝÖÖ‡Ô ´ÖÖ¸ü ¤êüÝÖß… ´ÖÆÓüÝÖÖ‡Ô ¯ÖÆü»Öê Æü´Öë ´ÖÖ¸ü¸üÆüß Æîü, ˆÃÖÛêú ²ÖÖ¤ü ´Öë ÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸ü ÛúÖê ´ÖÖ¸êüÝÖß, μÖÆü ´Öï •Öºþ¸ü ÛúÆü®ÖÖ “ÖÖÆüŸÖÖ ÆæÓü… μÖÆü ×ÃÖ±Ôú ‹Ûú×ÃÖÝ®Ö»Ö Æîü… μÖÆü ×ÃÖ±Ôú ‹Ûú ¾ÖÖÚ®ÖÝÖ Æîü… †ÝÖ¸ü μÖÆü ÃÖ¸üÛúÖ¸ü ‹êÃÖê Æüß “Ö»ÖŸÖß ¸üÆêüÝÖß, ŸÖÖê •ÖîÃÖÖ ´Öê¸êüÃÖÆüμÖÖêÝÖß ®Öê ÛúÆüÖ, ¾ÖîÃÖê Æüß •Ö®ÖŸÖÖ ÃÖ›ÍüÛúÖë ¯Ö¸ü †Ö‹ÝÖß †Öî¸ü •Ö²Ö •Ö®ÖŸÖÖ ¸üÖÃŸÖê ¯Ö¸ü †Ö‹ÝÖß, ŸÖ²Ö•Ö®ÖŸÖÖ ÛúÆêüÝÖß ×Ûú ØÃÖÆüÖÃÖ®Ö ÜÖÖ»Öß Ûú¸üÖê… ¾ÖÆü ‹êÃÖÖ ®ÖÖ¸üÖ ¤êüÝÖß … μÖÆü ×¤ü®Ö ®ÖÆüà †Ö®ÖÖ “ÖÖ×Æü‹…‡ÃÖ×»Ö‹ †Ö•Ö Æüß ´ÖÖ®Ö®ÖßμÖ ´ÖÓ¡Öß •Öß ÛúÖê Ûãú”û Ûú¤ü´Ö ˆšüÖ®Öê Ûúß •Öºþ¸üŸÖ Æîü… ´Öï ‡ŸÖ®Öß Æüß ×¾Ö®ÖŸÖßÛú¸üŸÖÖ ÆæÓü †Öî¸ü ´Öï †¯Ö®Öß ²ÖÖŸÖ ÃÖ´ÖÖ¯ŸÖ Ûú¸üŸÖÖ ÆæÓü… ¬Ö®μÖ¾ÖÖ¤ü…(ÃÖ´ÖÖ¯ŸÖ)THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE AND THE MINISTER OFCONSUMER AFFAIRS, FOOD & PUBLIC DISTRIBUTION (SHRISHARAD PAWAR): Mr. Deputy Chairman, Sir, I have been carefullylistening the discussion in the House regarding rise in the price ofessential commodities. I would like to share the concerns of all the hon.Members because this particular subject is a subject which is affectingpractically each and every household of this country and, particularly, thevulnerable sections of the country. Middle classes of this country have toface a very serious situation. It is true that we have discussed thissubject in the month of August and it is also true that there is noremarkable change in the situation. I recollect, in the discussion inAugust, in my reply, I had explained what was the ground level situation,

212Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009what steps had been taken and for how long this situation will continue.Of course, when I tried to take the House into confidence and, throughthe House, the people of India, I tried to put a proper picture beforethem. I have seen that there are some allegations against me thatbecause of my statements, certain things are happening and I don'twant to hide. I have definitely tried to tell the truth to the countrymenbecause I was quite convinced that this type of situation will continue forsuch and such period. The issue is not restricted to prices of essentialcommodities. I recollect, in my young days, I was in the Congress Party.And, the Working Committee of the Congress Party in 1960s took adecision that nationalisation of foodgrains failed. That was a majordecision. Practically, within three months' time, the Party took anotherdecision and withdrew from that decision because the Government andthe Party realised that it was not a subject which the Government or theGovernment machinery or officers would control and implement veryeffectively to protect the interests of public. Here, if we have to resolvethis issue, we have to take a long-term approach. We have to take anapproach which can take corrective measures immediately.(Contd. by MKS/4b)MKS-VKK/6.10/4BSHRI SHARAD PAWAR (CONTD.): For long term, in a country likeIndia, it is the responsibility of all of us to see how we will be able toimprove our production of agricultural goods and the productivity fromeach and every inch of land. We have to give it a topmost priority.Pundit Jawaharlal Nehru had said once: "Everything can wait but notagriculture." It is a huge country. We have six per cent land of the

213Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009world; we have three per cent water of the world, but we have to feed17 per cent population of the world! So, feeding 17 per cent populationof the world, with such limited resources, is not easy unless and until weare ready to make, we are prepared to make substantial investment inthe agriculture sector, whether it is irrigation, whether it is other facilitiesor whether it is cold chains, and save the post-harvest losses to reserveproviding sufficient market facilities.Some of the decisions were definitely taken in the last few years.When the UPA first took the responsibility to protect the interest of thiscountry, in our programme, it was announced that such and such stepswe are going to take in the area of agriculture and we would like tochange the overall approach in agriculture; balance of trade also wewould like to change. The overall investment pattern which was notgiving justice to this sector has also been changed and tried to improve.Credit system has been improved. I recollect that in the year 2005-06,the total agricultural credit which was provided in this country wasRs.86,000 crores, crop loan, has been enhanced to Rs.3,01,000 croresthis year. Interest - it has always been a normal discussion in thevillages that if anybody wants to buy a small car, the credit is availableor the money is available in some financial institution @ 8-9 per centwhereas the crop loan in this country is available @ 12 per cent. InIndian region, certain decision has been taken to reduce that from 12per cent to certain percentage. Similar programme has been taken inhand and the House is fully aware that in the last Budget, the hon.Finance Minister has announced reducing the rate of interest, for croploans, from eight to seven per cent, and those who were ready to pay

214Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009regularly, they will charge six per cent. So, practically, we have comedown from 12 per cent to 6 per cent. Of course, this is the preconditionthat regular payment should be there.One of the points raised here by one of the hon. Members wasthat we should try to provide substantial money for irrigation purposes.It is true that 60 per cent of our agriculture is rain fed. It depends onuncertainty of monsoon, and unless and until we try to bring moreirrigation percentage in the country, to resolve the question of foodsecurity is not that simple.(Contd. by TMV/4C)-MKS-TMV-LT/6.15/4CSHRI SHARAD PAWAR (CONTD.): So, a special programme has beentaken up in this country, that is, the Accelerated Irrigation BenefitProgramme (AIBP). Thousands of projects were taken up by the StateGovernments. But for years together, they are incomplete. So, theGovernment of India took a decision to provide a special assistance tothe States where they are in a position to complete these projects withintwo to three years. And, practically, every year, we are enhancing thebudgetary provision for that purpose. The intention behind it is toimprove the agriculture production and productivity, and make availablesufficient foodgrains in this country. There are other schemes for whichalso a lot of monetary provision has been made. I recollect that on 17 thMay, 2006-07, I called the Chief Ministers' meeting and this particularsubject was discussed practically for the whole day. For the first time,in the last forty or fifty years, an exclusive meeting of the Chief Ministerswas called to discuss the problem of agriculture. It was decided in that

215Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009meeting to provide Rs.25,000 crores and to introduce a new scheme,namely, the Rashtriya Krishi Vikas Yojana, where flexibility has beenprovided to the State Governments, and the State Governments, as pertheir requirements, can take up schemes in their respective States whichwill be useful to enhance agricultural production, particularly, foodgrainsand other items, and productivity. We are implementing that Scheme forthe last two or three years.Another major decision was taken to improve the National FoodSecurity Mission. An amount of Rs.5,000 crores has been provided. Itwas planned to enhance the wheat and pulses production by 20 milliontonnes by 2011. The implementation of the Scheme is also doing quitewell and I must say that most of the States are cooperating extremelywell, and that is the reason why both the decisions are definitely goingto show some results from some time now. So, one way our approachis to improve production and productivity, and make foodgrainsavailable.Another area where we have to take a lot of interest is the PublicDistribution System or to make foodgrains available in the market. Inthe Public Distribution System, which we have accepted in this countryfor years together, there was a change in the approach when the NDAGovernment took the responsibility to run the Government. The changewas a slightly different. The change was to give more weightage to thetargeted sections of the society which are really the poorest of the poor.A decision was taken that 35 kilograms of wheat and rice should beprovided to all the BPL families throughout India. Another new schemehas been introduced, namely, Antyodaya Anna Yojana. Those who

216Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009come under the Antyodaya Anna Yojana are also eligible to get 35kilograms of wheat and rice per family per month, and the price, whichwas fixed in 2002, is Rs.2 per kilogram of wheat and Rs.3 per kilogramof rice. Till today, the same price pattern has been there. We have notchanged that, though the minimum support price for wheat and rice hasbeen substantially hiked. But this section of the society are, for yearstogether and even today, getting 35 kilograms of rice and wheat at thisparticular price.(Contd. by 4D/RG)RG/6.20/4DSHRI SHARAD PAWAR (contd.): So, we have the PDS and the AAY.There are about six crore families, that is, 30 crores of people, of thiscountry, who have taken full advantage of these schemes. Anotherdecision was taken by this Government to introduce a new category,called, the APL, that is, Above Poverty Line. Now, the people of thiscategory are also entitled to get the foodgrains under the PDS. But itdepends on availability. In the last few years, 10-12 kgs. of wheat andrice have been provided to the APL category. There is an exception tothe States of the North-East, Jammu and Kashmir, hilly States, Andamanand Nicobar Islands and Lakshadweep, where we are even supplying 35kgs. for the APL category. But the other States are getting around 10-11 kgs per family per month. And, if the availability improves, then, theGovernment will, happily, take a decision to enhance this quantity aswell. Along with these, our effort is also to see to it that there isavailability in the local market. Now, there are a number of familieswho do not want to go to ration shops. They are not generally

217Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009dependent on the Public Distribution System of the Government. Theyprefer to buy in open market. For the sake of that section, it is also ourresponsibility to see how the foodgrains are made available in localmarkets. As I said, the availability can be met from production withinour country. But, if there is shortfall, a pragmatic decision has beentaken on a number of occasions to allow imports liberally. But when weallow imports liberally, we also try to take care that domestic farmers arenot affected. In the last, practically, ten years, we have been importingpulses. When we look at the position of the total production of pulsesand the total demand of pulses of this country, there is a gap by about4 million tonnes. So, unless and until, we allow imports to meet theshortfall of 4 million tonnes of pulses, the availability will not be there,and the price of pulses will not be under control. So, we do importthem. There was a criticism as to why this Government is allowingimport of edible oil. This decision has not been taken today. Thispractice has been going on for a number of years. I have not got thedetails with me now. But I can collect the information and give it to theHouse. But, for years together, we have been importing palm oil fromIndonesia and Malaysia, and ensuring availability of edible oil in thiscountry. So, edible oil and pulses are two items which are generallyimported because there is shortage. The reasons are manifold. I willalso go into some specific details about other individual commodities. Anumber of issues have been raised here. I will, definitely, go into eachand every item. Prior to that, I will try to bring out the broad thrust ofthe measures which have been taken in the last few months to improve

218Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009availability. We have been encouraging imports, as I said, anddiscouraging exports.TDB/4E/6.25(Continued by 4E)SHRI SHARAD PAWAR (CONTD.): From the last one year, we havetotally banned rice export, other than Basmati. We have banned wheatexport. We have banned, except one or two small items which arerequired for Indian community, particularly in the Gulf, edible oils fromour side. So, we have now totally banned a number of items. And, thereare a number of items where we have practically removed 100 per centduty. We have done it because we want availability should be there inthe country. To ensure that the vulnerable sections of the country areprotected, the Government of India has given considerable support tothe Public Distribution System. An extremely important step in thisdirection has been to keep the Central issue price constant since theyear 2002. We have two prices. One is acquisition price from farmer. Thesecond is the issue price for the public distribution. These are twoprices, and practically, the issue price is constant for years together.But, the acquisition prices have been increasing. That has beenenhanced. The Minimum Support Price in the last five years has beenenhanced by practically up to 70 to 80 per cent. At the same time,thanks to the record production of last year, the Government procured arecord 58.53 million tonnes of food grains, i.e., 33.30 million tonnes ofrice and 25.23 million tonnes of wheat this year. As a result, the CentralPool Stock of wheat as on 1 st November, 2009 was 266.88 lakh tonnes.In 2009-10, the quantity of 129 lakh tonnes of rice has been procured till

219Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009first of December. I have briefed the House while this year we areexpecting less rice production because of the drought situation in certainStates, but still Punjab, Haryana, parts of the Western U.P., theseGovernments have taken tremendous efforts to save their paddy cropthis year. The Government of India has also supported them. We haveprovided them diesel subsidy. We have provided them additional powerand because of this, they could save their crop and that is why, at least,these two States or three States have definitely saved their paddy crop.That is why our paddy procurement, which has been started frompractically two months, is quite good and, as compared to last year, tilltoday, our procurement is a little higher. But, I don't expect similarsituation all over India because there are a number of other States whichhave been affected. Modification has been made to the order issuedunder the Essential Commodities Act to provide powers to the States tofix and enforce the stock limit for several essential commodities. So,these are some of the quick decisions which have been taken.Sir, the hon. Members would recall that in the last Session of theHouse, we had discussed the situation arising because of poor monsoonthat we experienced last year. Since then, we have received fullinformation about the monsoon of the current year. The monsoon hasended with overall shortage of 23 per cent. It is reported that it hasbeen the worst monsoon since 1972. The State Governments havedeclared 316 districts in 13 States, namely, Assam, Himachal Pradesh,Jharkhand, Manipur, Nagaland, Orissa, Uttar Pradesh, Bihar, Karnataka,Madhya Pradesh, Maharashtra, Rajasthan and Andhra Pradesh to be droughtaffected or scarcity or drought-like conditions. (Contd. by 4f-kgg)

kgg/4f/6.30220Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009SHRI SHARAD PAWAR (CONTD.): So, in 316 districts of the 13 States,the State Governments have declared the drought. Subsequently, Stateslike Karnataka, Maharashtra and Andhra Pradesh, lost a lot of theircrops in the post-monsoon period. Commodities like sugarcane, rice,potato and onion were affected.I am not aware of what exactly has happened when a point wasraised here by the hon. Member, Smt. Jaya Bachchan, that when shewas coming from Nasik to Mumbai, on the way she has seen twotruckloadsof onion was thrown away. Definitely, I would inquire into it.But, I am fully aware that in that particular belt, because of theexcessive rains, sizeable onion crop has been practically rotten; and,that is why, the farmer might have tried to remove that and dispose it ofsomewhere. That might be the reason, but, definitely I would go and tryto collect the information from the State Government.Sir, the adverse climatic conditions have been coupled with thehigh prices of certain commodities in the international market. These twofactors taken together have considerably restricted the capacity of theGovernment to take remedial measures; and, at the same time, onaccount of the steps taken to promote growth and employment, theeconomy has continued to grow. The targeted scheme like NREGA hasalso helped to improve the income of the rural poor. And, all this has ledto increase demand of the essential commodities. Hon. Member, ShriSharad Joshi, has raised this particular subject. He said that because ofa number of Government schemes, now the purchasing power of therural areas has definitely been improved and that is why there is more

221Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009demand. He also said that the country is facing a little different situationfrom region to region. In villages, the situation is different. Our peoplefrom villages want better price to their products and in urban areas theprices should be proper, at a particular level. So, there is a sort ofcontradictory situation in what he says and I entirely agree with him.While I go into the details about the specific scenario regardinginflation of the essential commodities today, I would like a fact to bekept as a backdrop in mind. The annual rate of inflation in food articlesis currently 17.5 per cent. This is a matter of great concern. Although,the annual rate of inflation based on monthly WPI stood at a low level of1.34 per cent for the month of October, 2009, the high inflation in foodarticles is certainly disturbing. I do not deny that, we accept that. Weare quite serious about that. Though there has been an increase in thetotal foodgrains production in 2008-09, the production of some of theitems, say, some varieties of pulses is low. Sugar has been altogetherdifferent. The first advance estimated production of major agriculturalcrops in 2009-10 for kharif would be 96.53 million tonnes, which is lowerthan the first advance estimate of last year, which was expected to be115 million tonnes. So, practically, we are coming down from 115 to 96.India is not self-sufficient in some of the agricultural commodities,as I said, particularly, edible oil and pulses. That is why, I said that wehave no choice but to import. But, simultaneously, certain importantdecisions have been taken by the Government of India to provide abetter price to the farmer. For instance, the Minimum Support Price forwheat has been increased from Rs.640 per quintal in 2004 to Rs.1,100per quintal this year.(Contd. by sss/4g)

SSS/4G/6.35222Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009SHRI SHARAD PAWAR (CONTD.):If the minimum support price hasgone up from Rs. 642 to Rs. 1,100 definitely, there will be some impactin the price front in the open market. It is not possible to get or makeavailable that wheat at the same price which was there around one yearor two years or three years back. Similar is the case with paddy. Now,for the common variety of paddy, the minimum support price has beenincreased from Rs. 560, per quintal, to Rs. 1000 in the year 2009. Thatmeans, in percentage terms, the MSP of wheat has been increased by72 per cent, and paddy, by 79 per cent. So, if the paddy price hasbeen enhanced by 79 per cent for the last three to four years, definitely,there will be some impact on the prices of rice. When we give Rs. 1000per quintal, for the paddy crop, that means, actually, we are getting 60kgs of rice. That is why Rs. 1000 is the price of paddy, which meansRs. 1600 is the State price of rice, plus conversion charges, acquisitioncharges, mandi charges and State Government's taxes. So, altogether,practically it goes to, somewhat, near Rs. 2000. But whatever figureswhich have been published, we have a system, that Delhi Governmentwill communicate the figures of the various essential commodities to theGovernment of India's Consumer Affairs Department daily. They collectthe figures from a number of shops, and whatever latest informationwhich I got from Delhi Government, six months back, the retail price ofrice was at Rs. 20 per kg. Three months back, it had gone up to Rs.21. One month back, it had gone up to Rs. 22. One week back, it wasRs. 23, and as on today, it is Rs. 23. Yes, it is true it is going on thehigher side but we are not in a position to buy fast. One thing is, if the

223Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009price which has been paid to the farmers at Rs. 1000, that means Rs.1600 which is the cost of rice will ultimately reflect up to retail at thisprice. Similarly, of course, one point was raised in the House that theprice has gone up to Rs. 30 or Rs. 40 for per kg of rice. That is not theinformation which I have got from a number of the other districts. Thereis every possibility that there are some types of rice like Basmati orsome other good variety of rice. Prices are high but the prices which Iam quoting is of the common variety, and the common variety prices arehere only. Similar is the case with wheat. Though the minimum supportprice of wheat has gone up to Rs. 1100 per quintal but practically, wehave to pay 12 per cent market taxes, plus mandi charges, gunny bags,loading, unloading, transport, storage for acquisition cost in Punjab.Altogether, ultimately it goes up to Rs. 15 to Rs. 16. But the retail pricein Delhi market is Rs. 15 per kg. That is the latest price which we havegot about Delhi. Of course, there are some other places. In Mumbai, itis Rs. 19. In Trivandrum, it is something like Rs. 23 - Rs. 24 becausewe have to consider the total transport cost from Ludhiana or anydestination from Punjab and Haryana to Trivandrum or Chennai. Thathas to be added. That is why, comparatively, the prices of SouthernStates are always high. So, as I said, our position is still better becausewe have a record production, and last year, procurement was verygood. The stock of wheat and rice is, therefore, sufficient to meet thedemand of the public distribution system and all other welfare fund. Theprice of rice and wheat in the open market has been rising on accountof the minimum support price as I have already explained here.(Contd. by NBR/4H)

224Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009-SSS/NBR-NB/4H/6.40.SHRI SHARAD PAWAR (CONTD.): But, still, we are trying to maintainthe price at a particular level. What have we done? We have earmarked30 million tonnes of wheat and 10 million tonnes of rice to sell in theopen market. How to sell? The Food Corporation of India can sell byinviting tenders. But, we took a decision to handover these to States.We requested the State Governments to sell or take these at a particularprice and make them available in the PDS even for APL category. Sir,10 lakh tonnes of wheat and 10 lakh tonnes of rice has been allotted toStates and UTs under the Open Market Sale Scheme for the retailconsumer to be distribution between the October, 2009, and December,2009 i.e., two months. So, we have written to the States and UTs thatsuch and such quantity of foodgrains was made available to them.These allocations have been made at a subsidized rate of MSP plusfreight without adding tax, procurement charges, handing charges,interest, storage which are borne by the Government of India. So, theMSP which we have paid to the farmer has to be paid by the StateGovernment plus freight from Ludhiana to that particular place. Theother costs such as procurement charges, handling charges, interest,storage rate, etc., will be borne by the Government of India. Theobjective of the Scheme was to make wheat and rice available to retailconsumer for his consumption and to control market prices. The Statedelivery system has to take the benefit of this Scheme. However, thelifting of wheat and rice, it is really surprising, under the Scheme by theStates has been very, very poor. As per latest position i.e., as of 6 thDecember, 2009, from the FCI, 21,992 metric tonne of wheat has been

225Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009lifted by the States. So, out of 10 lakh MT, the States have lifted only21,992 metric tonnes! There are some States which are asking that weshould provide them wheat at the BPL price. It is not possible. We areasking them to pay only the price that we have paid to the farmers. Weare not asking more than that. The acquisition and other charges are allborne by the GOI. The States have to pay only the transport and theprice which was paid to the farmer.SHRI P.V. RAJEEVE: What about the additional allocation to the Stateof Kerala at the APL price.SHRI SHARAD PAWAR: I will come back to you.So, 1,49,176 metric tonnes of rice has been lifted by the Statesout of 5 lakh MT allotted to them. And, as I said, the same formula hasbeen adopted for this as well. So, I think, it is the responsibility of theState Governments to take advantage of the Scheme and see thatmarket will improve. I am going to take up this issue with all the StateGovernments. If the State Governments will not take this, then, the FCIwill enter into open market and dispose these through open markettender process. But, our desire is that the State Governments can takethese and use its machinery of the PDS.Sir, one particular issue was raised here regarding the allocationand off take of APL rice to Kerala.(CONTD. BY PB "4J")-NBR/PB-VNK/4J/6.45SHRI SHARAD PAWAR (CONTD.): Sir, it is true that the total allocationfor Kerala has been reduced and there are reasons. In fact, I had giventhese reasons to the House. It is because whatever allocation was

226Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009made was not lifted sufficiently by the State Government....(Interruptions)...SHRI A. VIJAYARAGHAVAN: When was this taken place?MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: You can ask it after the reply.SHRI SHARAD PAWAR: From the years 2003-04, 2004-05, 2005-06 upto 2006-07, the off-take was not lifted. For instance, for the year 2006-07, 13,61,000 lakh tonnes was the allocation for Kerala, but the off-takewas 1,81,000 only. In fact, that has been improved after that. So,during all these four years, i.e., 2003-04, 2004-05, 2005-06 and 2006-07,Kerala Government has not lifted what was allocated to it. Then theGovernment took a decision not only for Kerala but also for all otherStates, and all those States which were not lifting their off-take, theirallocation was reduced. Now, it is true that the State is asking,particularly, for the APL quota, but, as I said earlier, with regard to AAYand BPL we are fully honouring our commitments. We are honouringcommitments; but there are some problems in the case of APL and I amnot in a position to accept the Kerala Government's request in toto. Butwhenever they ask for something additional, that additional has definitelybeen provided to them. I recently saw that statement of the hon. ChiefMinister of Kerala that there was a commitment given by PanditJawaharlal Nehru that 'this is a State which produces plantation cropand that is why the entire responsibility of providing it foodgrains will betaken by the Government of India.' I am searching; my office is alsosearching that communication, but I don't see, at least, any record ......((Interruptions)...MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Let him complete. ...(Interruptions)...

227Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009SHRI A. VIJAYARAGHAVAN: Sir, one minute. ...(Interruptions)... Hehas yielded. Sir, our difficulty is, this is a State where we are producingonly 15 per cent of the food articles, that means, staple rice. We areproducing only 15 per cent and we are producing 85 per cent cashcrops. No other Indian State has such a situation. So, naturally, theCentral Government has to give a special assistance to the Kerala State,and, at that point of time, a statutory ration system was there underwhich the Central Government was providing sufficient rice to the State.Now that practice is stopped. So, naturally ... ...(Interruptions)...MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: No; no; the Minister is saying that they arenot lifting. The off-take is not lifted. ...(Interruptions)...SHRI A. VIJAYARAGHAVAN: No; no; Sir, that is not the situation. Thatis not the situation. There was statutory ration system in the State andmore than one lakh tonne was allotted for the State per year. But nowthat has been restricted. With regard to APL, because of the givensituation which is prevailing in the State and due to shortage ofproduction, naturally, the State owes an assistance from the Centre andthat was there. The State is producing cash crops which are exportedand the country is gaining from that. So, naturally, a reciprocal gesturewas there earlier and that should be retained. That is what we aresaying. ...(Interruptions)...PROF. P.J. KURIEN: Sir, it was the Union Government whichencouraged Kerala to go for cash crops. For example, we wereimporting rubber by giving foreign exchange. So, Kerala was asked togo in for rubber and such other cash crops by which we gained foreignexchange. Then Kerala was promised by the Union Government that

228Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009statutory ration and enough rice will be supplied. That was a promise bythe Union Government. It is known to everybody. It may not be knownto his office. But it is known to ... ...(Interruptions)... irrespective of theparty ... ...(Interruptions)... Let me finish. As far as Kerala is concerned,every party, every Government in Kerala is accepting and knowing that.Therefore, it is the responsibility of the Union Government to providemore rice to Kerala. ...(Interruptions)...MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: How can you get answers like this?...(Interruptions)... How can you get an answer like this?...(Interruption)...SHRI SHARAD PAWAR: Allow me to complete. ...(Interruptions)...SHRI PRASANTA CHATTERJEE: Sir, in West Bengal, when the WestBengal started the jute production ... ...(Interruptions)...ÁÖß ˆ¯ÖÃÖ³ÖÖ¯Ö×ŸÖ : ¯ÖÆü»Öê ‡®ÖÛúÖ •Ö¾ÖÖ²Ö ¯Öæ¸üÖ ÆüÖê •ÖÖ®Öê ¤üß×•Ö‹ ..(¾μÖ¾Ö¬ÖÖ®Ö)..SHRI PRASANTA CHATTERJEE: There was a Committee...(Interruptions)... in the Central Government ...(Interruptions)... to providerice allocation.MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Let the hon. Minister complete his reply andthen this can be taken up. ...(Interruptions)... Let there be some order....(Interruptions)... Let there be some order. ...(Interruptions)...(Followed by 4k/SKC)4k/6.50/skcMR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: I would call your names one by one; youmay then put your questions. Now, let him complete his reply. Please.SHRI P. RAJEEVE (KERALA): Regarding the point about statutoryration...(Interruptions)...

229Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: You may ask that after he completes.SHRI P. RAJEEVE: Sir, the statutory ration system was introduced in1967. At that time, Mr. Minister, no records were there. Regarding theother point about the off-take, at that time the price in the open marketwas lesser than the APL price. That off-take is less. Now, the price isvery high. So, we are compelled to have it at the APL price.SHRI SHARAD PAWAR: The point is that the concept of statutory rationis not there now; it was abandoned by the Government of India longback. The Government of India took a conscious decision to introduce'targeted public distribution'. 'Targeted public distribution' means, wewant to target that section which is really affected, poor and vulnerable.This decision was taken ten years back, and that is continuing eventoday. (Interruptions) Some decision might have been taken in 1948-49.But these days, we have factors like population, availability etc. andtoday's position is vastly different. That is why, a different decision hasbeen taken and that decision has been implemented in this country.SHRI A. VIJAYARAGHAVAN (KERALA): At least, increase the APLrice...(Interruptions)...SHRI SHARAD PAWAR: The only question is that of availability. If thereis availability, I would be definitely happy to enhance it, not only forKerala but for other States also. I don't want to say anything more.About edible oil, certain decisions have been taken, and I have alreadyexplained that. Now, another important issue was discussed here, aboutsugar. Hon. Member, Shri Javadekar, said that I had talked aboutavailability of sugar last year, only a few months back. That is true. Inthe last two seasons production of sugar in this country was

230Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009exceptional. We have practically reached 300 million tonnes. It is much,much more than our requirement. So, there was no choice but toencourage export. In fact, most of the mills were not in a position to payfarmers cane price. They should be in a position to pay the price to thefarmers; so, Government of India has encouraged export. Thesedecisions were taken. I recall that at that time, the price of sugar wasabout Rs. 16 per kg. In the same House, last year, I have made astatement that if we are not ready to accept an enhancement in theprice of sugar in the open market, sugarcane farmers would definitelyshift from sugarcane to some other crop, and the country will have tobuy sugar at the rate of Rs. 30 to 35. This was my statement made inthis House, on record, and exactly the same situation has occurred.There was tremendous opposition for providing an additional price. Andbecause of that, ultimately, when the farmers, particularly farmers fromUttar Pradesh and other Northern States, started getting greater pricefor wheat and rice, they shifted from sugarcane to wheat and rice. Theypreferred the wheat and rice crops. They get money practically withineight or ten days at the most; for sugarcane price they have to waiteven up to one year. That is the reason why the area under sugarcanecultivation has been substantially dropped and that is the situation weare facing today. Our efforts are to provide a better price to the farmers.Unless and until we provide a better price to the farmers, they would notgrow sugarcane. Today, you are complaining that sugar prices are goingup. I remember, for practically two days, the House could not functionbecause the price which the Government of India had announced forsugarcane in its Ordinance was not approved; there were agitations, and

231Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009the functioning of both the Houses was practically stalled. And when acertain decision has been taken and the price of sugarcane has beenenhanced, farmers would surely go back to this crop. Today, sugarcaneprices have gone up from Rs. 129 per quintal. In Uttar Pradesh, it is Rs.185; in the Gorakhpur area, some mills have given even Rs. 200, andsome, Rs. 210.HK/4l/6.55(Contd. by hk/4l)SHRI SHARAD PAWAR (CONTD.): States like Maharashtra, Karnataka,Andhra and Tamil Nadu are providing between Rs.220 and Rs.240. So,that price will definitely change the entire situation. But sugarcane cropis not a crop which one can plan today and get the result practicallywithin two months. This is a yearly crop. It will take some time, but Iam sure that the situation will definitely change.. With sugar, there is aproblem today, but the situation will definitely improve. So far as pulsesare concerned, it is true that tur prices are really creating seriousproblem for each and every family; it has gone up to Rs.90 to Rs.100.Pulses are essentially rain-fed crops. In a country like India where 60per cent agriculture is rain-fed, if you do not get the proper monsoon, italways get affected, and that situation has happened this year.Practically, every year, as I said, we import it, but this year the majorsupplying countries are also facing problems and that is whyinternationally prices have gone up and that is reflected in our owncountry too. But this year additional area has been brought under tur. Iam sure that in another two months' time, when the harvesting of turwill start, there will be more availability of tur in the open market and the

232Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009prices will definitely start coming down, and the situation will definitelyimprove about tur. ..(Interruptions)..SHRI PRASANTA CHATTERJEE: On PDS ..(Interruptions)..SHRI SHARAD PAWAR: As on today, it is not possible because todaywe are providing Rs.60,000 crore as a subsidy for Public DistributionSystem.SHRI PRASANTA CHATTERJEE: You have only given a concession ofRs.4,00,016 crore in one year's Budget to the corporate sectors...(Interruptions).. You have to provide for the whole nation...(Interruptions)..SHRI SHARAD PAWAR: Five years' back, when I took the responsibilityof this Department, at that time, the subsidy bill was Rs.19,000 croreand today it is Rs.60,000 crore. Still we are concentrating on targetedsection. If it is universal, then the Rs.60,000 crore can go up to, I don'tknow, any level. That type of money, as on today, is not available. Ifthat type of money is available, definitely we will be very happy to takethese types of decisions. But today we are not in a position to take thisdecision. Potato prices are definitely coming down; crop is good.Onion prices are definitely on the higher side, but have again startedcoming down. I have enquired today also with major producing Stateslike Rajasthan, Gujarat, Karnataka, Nasik and other belts of Maharashtra.Although the crop was affected everywhere because of certain things,now the real season has been started and we will be able to see thatthe market changes and the change will be for better, and the prices willbe coming down here. In all these areas though the situation is quiteserious, the process of improvement has been started. But you cannot

233Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009expect this type of result within a week's time or a month's time. To get cropand take it to farmers' home, it does take a lot of time and that process isdefinitely certain. One of the major issues which has been raised here isregarding the effective action against the black-marketers and others. As Isaid earlier also, all these powers have been delegated to the StateGovernments. It is the responsibility of the State Governments to takeaction. There are some State Governments which have taken action. Thereare some State Governments like Gujarat and others which have practicallyprosecuted a large number of culprits. They have booked culprits andprosecuted them and the cases are pending in the court. But there aresome State Governments which have not shown any interest. We arecontinuously writing them. I am also getting in touch with the Civil SupplyMinisters of States.(Contd. by 4m/KSK)KSK/7.00/4MSHRI SHARAD PAWAR (CONTD): And, because of that, I hope they willtake this particular issue very seriously. Another issue, which was raisedhere, was that we should ban the futures trading. In fact, some of the itemshave been withdrawn from futures trading. We have withdrawn sugar, tur,rice, potato. But, I do not see any impact over that. I have already briefedthe House. One Committee was appointed under the Chairmanship of Prof.Abhijit Sen to go into the details of how far future trade or commodityexchanges are responsible for this rise in prices. Their report came negative.Still, we would like to continue ban on some of the items and we will seethat if the market improves, prices come down, then, we may take a policydecision in this regard. But, unless and until there is clearcut proof, we willnot be able to take a final decision about that. I do not want to take moretime of the House. I know that issue is serious...(Interruptions). In such a

234Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009situation, the State Governments have to take the responsibility, and theGovernment of India will also have to take the responsibility. We have toimprove our agricultural production; we have to improve our productivity; wehave to improve our availability. Then only, this situation can be improved.But, this Government is quite serious about this problem on every front, and,I hope, there will be proper results...(Interruptions). (Ends)SHRI S.S. AHLUWALIA: Sir, I will not ask any question. Sir, my point is verysimple...(Interruptions).MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: I will call Members one by one.SHRI S.S. AHLUWALIA: Sir, the UPA Government came with the manifestoand they said that within hundred days, they would control price rise.SHRI SHANTARAM LAXMAN NAIK: We said that steps would be taken.SHRI S.S. AHLUWALIA: Then, what are the steps? Now, what is the reality?You give the price. You are telling only these things. Sir, we are notsatisfied with the answer. We walk out.(At this stage, some hon. Members left the Chamber)SHRI PRASANTA CHATTERJEE: Sir, we will walk out. There are noassurances, no ban on futures trading...(Interruptions).SHRI A. VIJAYARAGHAVAN: Sir, we are dissatisfied with the reply, and weare forced to walk out.(At this stage, some hon. Members left the Chamber)MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: The House stands adjourned to meet at 11.00a.m. tomorrow.-------The House then adjourned at three minutes pastseven of the clock to meet at eleven of the clock onWednesday, the 9 th December, 2009.

1 Uncorrected/ Not for publication- 08.12.2009 SSS-AKG/11.00/1A ...

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