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National, International, Armenia, and Community News and Opinion

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The <strong>Armenia</strong>n Reporter | May 2, 2009 17<strong>Armenia</strong>“A joint historians’ commission is a dangerous trap”Richard Hovannisianwould refuse to takepart in an <strong>Armenia</strong>n-Turkey commissionHistorian Richard Hovannisian ofthe University of California, Los Angeles,met with Tatul Hakobyan ofthe <strong>Armenia</strong>n Reporter on April 24in Yerevan at the <strong>Armenia</strong>n Centerfor <strong>National</strong> <strong>and</strong> <strong>International</strong> Studies(ACNIS), a think tank establishedby <strong>Armenia</strong>’s first foreign minister,Raffi Hovannisian.Tatul Hakobyan: Professor, inthe early morning hours of April23, <strong>Armenia</strong> <strong>and</strong> Turkey, throughSwiss mediation, issued an optimisticjoint statement announcingthat they had charted a roadmaptoward normalized relations, <strong>and</strong>even though we don’t know thecontent of the roadmap, it hascaused serious criticism, especiallyin the diaspora. The reality is thatit was signed on the eve of April 24.How would you assess this?Richard Hovannisian: It wouldhave been good if the <strong>Armenia</strong>nside had found a way to wait untilSunday, April 26. Issuing the jointstatement on April 22, can clearlybe tied with U.S. President BarackObama’s address on April 24. It occursto me that the sides, especiallythe <strong>Armenia</strong>n side, were under extremepressure to give their consentto that document, the road map. Idon’t know how the <strong>Armenia</strong>n sidewas forced or gave itself the rightto sign, knowing full well that thatwould have a negative impact onPresident Obama’s statement.Now, I can no longer hope thatPresident Obama will clearly usethe word genocide. [This interviewtook place on April 24, butbefore the president’s statementwas released.] President Obamacould possibly get close to theGenocide word, but it will be justBako Sahakianproposes a meetingbetween leaders ofNagorno-Karabakh<strong>and</strong> Azerbaijan to cochairsby Tatul HakobyanYEREVAN – Georgi Petrossian,the foreign minister of Nagorno-Karabakhsaid in the NKRparliament that President BakoSahakian had requested organizinga meeting between the leadersof Nagorno-Karabakh <strong>and</strong> Azerbaijanto the OSCE Minsk Groupco-chairs. Mr. Petrossian expressedthe opinion that the co-chairs, duringtheir last visit to the region, didnot travel to Stepanakert becausethey had to have an answer regardingthat meeting.The OSCE Minsk Group co-chairsduring a one week period (April 21–27) were in Yerevan twice <strong>and</strong> oncein Baku; however as the French cochairBernard Fassier said, “Wedidn’t go to Stepanakert because ofbad weather.” In its place, all threeco-chairs individually spoke withPresident Sahakian on the phone.After meeting with the leaders ofboth <strong>Armenia</strong> <strong>and</strong> Azerbaijan, theco-chairs left the region with “hopesas important for him to say howmany victims there were, that the<strong>Armenia</strong>ns <strong>and</strong> Turks must find adialogue, at the same time praisethe <strong>Armenia</strong>n people, American-<strong>Armenia</strong>ns. A few days beforeApril 24, Turkey’s prime ministeronce again stated that <strong>Armenia</strong>n-Turkish relations could not be successfulas long as the Karabakh issuehas not been resolved. I mustadmit, that Erdogan’s statementsdid not affect me adversely. I believethat this can be a good incentiveso that President Obama willno longer have an excuse not touse the Genocide word.We don’t know the inside story;we don’t know what role <strong>and</strong> influencethe United States <strong>and</strong> Russiahad on the signing of the April22 document. I can only assumethat there was pressure both on<strong>Armenia</strong> <strong>and</strong> Turkey – if you don’tcome to an agreement, then weare going to recognize the <strong>Armenia</strong>nGenocide. Otherwise I cannotunderst<strong>and</strong> why Foreign MinisterNalb<strong>and</strong>ian <strong>and</strong> President Sargsianagreed to sign such a document onthe evening of April 22.TH: Can we say that <strong>Armenia</strong>knew that the date of issue was indeedApril 22, on the eve of April 24,<strong>and</strong> they went ahead <strong>and</strong> agreed tothe document?RH: Certainly. He wasn’t naïve,he knew. The question now is thefollowing - what will <strong>Armenia</strong> getin return? We don’t know. If youare really going to concede, thenyou better get something in return.I do not know what <strong>Armenia</strong>will receive. We know that Turkishdiplomacy has always beenflexible <strong>and</strong> shrewd; today theymight come to an agreement butthen find an excuse by saying thatthe <strong>Armenia</strong>ns are not willing toadopt a policy where they agree toconcessions, we are not guilty, the<strong>Armenia</strong>ns are guilty. The Turksare so flexible, that while theirprime minister will sign an agreement,their parliament will notof a reasonable progress,” toward theresolution of the Karabakh conflict.At a press conference at the FrenchEmbassy in Yerevan, the co-chairsstressed that progress hinges upon,first <strong>and</strong> foremost the two presidents,Serge Sargsian <strong>and</strong> IlhamAliyev.Mr. Fassier said that PresidentsSargsian <strong>and</strong> Aliyev had agreed tomeet in Prague on May 7. This willbe the fourth meeting between thetwo leaders. Previous meetingstook place in June 2008 in St. Petersburg,November, 2008 in Moscow,<strong>and</strong> January 2009 in Zurich.The U.S. co-chair MatthewBryza said that in the comingmonths a resolution of the Karabakhconflict could be forthcoming.The Russian co-chair YuriMerzlyakov was also optimistic,but more somber <strong>and</strong> moderate,as always.“The Madrid Principles continueto be on the negotiating table. Wecontinue to discuss them alongSargsian <strong>and</strong> Aliev to meet in PragueOSCE MinskGroup co-chairs,from left: YuriMerzlyakov,Bernard Fassier,<strong>and</strong> MatthewBryza. Photo:Hayk Badalyan/Photolure.with the presidents. Naturally, severalpoints [of the Madrid Principles]will be part of the discussionduring the Prague meeting,” Mr.Fassier said.Mr. Petrossian on April 29, said,“Karabakh has very clear disagreementsregarding several fundamentalpoints within the MadridPrinciples,” adding that Karabakhcould become more rigid in its position.Over the last years, Yerevan <strong>and</strong>Baku, without Stepanakert’s directparticipation, have been negotiatingon the basis of a document thatis called the Madrid Principles <strong>and</strong>which was passed to <strong>Armenia</strong> <strong>and</strong>Azerbaijan in November, 2007 inSpain’s capital city. The principalthrust is the following: with thepromise of holding a referendum atsome unknown time in the future,<strong>Armenia</strong>n forces would retreat fromthose regions which <strong>Armenia</strong>nsdeem liberated territories or a securityzone.fratify it, <strong>and</strong> in this way prolongthe issue.TH: When the April 22 documentwas issued, many analystsexpressed the opinion that <strong>Armenia</strong>n-Turkishdialogue had entereda stalemate. What do you think?RH: Israel <strong>and</strong> Palestine, in thepast, have signed such documents.But where are they now? Today,their relations are in much worseshape than before. Signing any kindof document doesn’t mean that youhave reached a certain level or thatthe borders will be opened tomorrow.Perhaps the opening of theborders will bring more benefitsto Turkey than <strong>Armenia</strong>. Of course,open borders will also be beneficialfor <strong>Armenia</strong>, because we need accessto the sea, toward the Westernworld; we will then have an alternativeto the Georgian routes. Openborders is also good for Turkey,because its eastern regions will develop.It is also good for the Turksbecause they will have access to exp<strong>and</strong>to the east; this pull will becomeeasier. The Turks have alwayshad their eye on the east. In 1991,Turkey’s politically <strong>and</strong> economicallymotivated expansion intoCentral Asia, believing that theycould be the “godfather” in thosecountries, wasn’t so easy. Realizingthat Turkey pulled out.TH: In June 2008, PresidentSerge Sargsian announced in Moscowthat if Turkey opens the borderwith Turkey, then the <strong>Armenia</strong>nside would not be opposed to thecreation of a historians’ commission,which Turkey’s prime ministerhad proposed to PresidentKocharian in 2005. Is this proposalacceptable to you?RH: It is acceptable only undercertain conditions. First of all, theGenocide must be accepted as afact, then we can study as to whythe Genocide happened, what werethe factors, etc. The Turks are relyingupon the 1948 UN Conventionon Genocide, where it statesthat genocides must be premeditated.The Turks will stress that,yes, there were <strong>Armenia</strong>n victims– 200 thous<strong>and</strong>, 300 thous<strong>and</strong>, butyou cannot prove that this was premeditated.Second of all, in their archives<strong>and</strong> at that time it was alreadyplanned, to send telegrams fromthe villayets, where supposedly <strong>Armenia</strong>nrevolts <strong>and</strong> desertion fromthe Ottoman army were recorded.Turkish historians can come withthese arguments <strong>and</strong> try, at leastin part, to place the blame on the<strong>Armenia</strong>ns. The Turkish side willnever accept that what happenedwas genocide. The creation of sucha commission is very dangerous.TH: If they asked you to be onthat commission, would you refuse?RH: Yes, I would refuse, I wouldn’tbe part of that commission. Whatis the Turkish side saying? It is sayinglet’s form a commission, let’ssee if the Genocide happened ornot. We know that what happenedwas genocide; the world acceptsProfessorRichardHovannisian.Photo: Photolure.that it happened; the <strong>International</strong>Association of Genocide Scholarsaccepts that it happened. In otherwords, if we agree to the creationof a commission, then that willbe a step backward <strong>and</strong> will createdoubt. I consider the commissionto be a dangerous trap, which I willnot be a part of. For example whenthey created Turkish <strong>Armenia</strong>nReconciliation Commission, I wasopposed to it.TH: But that committee had unexpectedresults.RH: Yes, unexpected mixedachievements happened. The <strong>International</strong>Center for TransitionalJustice, to which TARC had applied,passed a decision that what happenedat the beginning of the centurywas a genocide, but that the1948 Convention on Genocide wasnot retroactive. After that TARC fellapart. The historians representingthe Turkish side were putting forwarda denialist approach withinTARC. The same will happen withthis commission.fNATO Secretary General in <strong>Armenia</strong>Ambassador Claudio Bisogniero.Mkhitar Khachatryan/Photolure.Ambassador Claudio Bisogniero,NATO’s Secretary General, was in<strong>Armenia</strong> on April 28 <strong>and</strong> met withthe country’s leadership.During his meeting with PresidentSerge Sargsian, AmbassadorBisogniero said his visit illustratesthe importance NATO gives to itsrelations with <strong>Armenia</strong>. PresidentSargsian stated that <strong>Armenia</strong>’s cooperationwith NATO within theframework of the Individual PartnershipAction Plan program is animportant component of the country’snational security policy. Theinterlocutors agreed that IPAP providedthe opportunity for movingbilateral cooperation forward. Thecurrent phase of <strong>Armenia</strong>-Turkeytalks was also discussed.The NATO ambassador also metwith the country’s Foreign MinisterEdward Nalb<strong>and</strong>ian. f<strong>Armenia</strong>’s health ministry preparesitself for Swine FluOn April 29, <strong>Armenia</strong>’s Health MinisterHaroutyun Kushkian saidthat the ministry is getting readyfor a possible attack of the swineflue, Arminfo reported.<strong>Armenia</strong>n authorities have alreadybegun implementing measureswhich comply with WHOst<strong>and</strong>ards including preventivemeasures at the country’s airports.The minister made assurances thatthe situation in <strong>Armenia</strong> is undercontrol <strong>and</strong> there have been no reportedcases of the swine flu here.On April 30, <strong>Armenia</strong> imposeda temporary ban on the import ofpork from those countries whichhave been affected by the flu. AramaisGrigoryan, <strong>Armenia</strong>’s agricultureminister told the governmentthat even though there havebeen no reported cases in <strong>Armenia</strong>,the risk of infection remains high.The minister said that they are consideringplacing restrictions on theimport of fowl as well. f

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