11.07.2015 Views

Women offenders: after the Corston Report - United Kingdom ...

Women offenders: after the Corston Report - United Kingdom ...

Women offenders: after the Corston Report - United Kingdom ...

SHOW MORE
SHOW LESS

Create successful ePaper yourself

Turn your PDF publications into a flip-book with our unique Google optimized e-Paper software.

Ev 64 Justice Committee: Evidence26 March 2013 Helen Grant MP, Ian Porée and Michael Spurrobviously, that would involve women as well. That isone of <strong>the</strong> reasons for having Cathy Robinson’s reviewof <strong>the</strong> estate at <strong>the</strong> minute.Q315 Jeremy Corbyn: Do you all accept that <strong>the</strong>absolute key area is when a woman prisoner, in thiscase, is released? If anything goes wrong in thoseimmediate moments and first few days, it can destroyan awful lot of <strong>the</strong> work that has been achieved in <strong>the</strong>past during whatever time <strong>the</strong> sentence has been.Michael Spurr: Yes, absolutely.Helen Grant: Yes, we do.Ian Porée: There are two very important moments.There are <strong>the</strong> first few days and weeks in custody when,if someone checks a whole range of things about yourfamily, accommodation and benefits arrangements andthose are sorted out very well up front, it can reducesome of <strong>the</strong> harms later on. Then, as you say, <strong>the</strong>re isthat moment of transition from within custody backinto <strong>the</strong> community. That process pre-release andpost-release is an essential transition. Paying attentionto both of those areas will be essential in <strong>the</strong> futurereforms to try to improve <strong>the</strong> overall performance of<strong>the</strong> system.Q316 Steve Brine: You mentioned <strong>the</strong> large andsmall providers. Are you switched on to <strong>the</strong> fact thatsmall providers bring an awful lot to <strong>the</strong> table, but<strong>the</strong>re are simple issues with <strong>the</strong>ir being paid by results,which takes time? It is a simple matter of cash flow forsmall firms, which will simply not be able to deal with<strong>the</strong> parameters that PBR puts in <strong>the</strong>ir way, whereasobviously a publicly funded probation service does nothave that concern.Ian Porée: We have spent a lot of time in <strong>the</strong>consultation on “Transforming Rehabilitation” talkingto <strong>the</strong> whole range of providers, large and small. Thepoint you make is essential. If <strong>the</strong>re is going to be asustainable but very diverse market, where we get <strong>the</strong>benefit of <strong>the</strong> financial strength of large organisationsbut also <strong>the</strong> intimacy or engagement of very smalllocal organisations, we will have to embed market________________stewardship principles in <strong>the</strong> new market that insiston transparency and sustainability. It would not beappropriate to transfer financial risk to very smallorganisations because that is simply not sustainable—<strong>the</strong>y do not have <strong>the</strong> balance sheet to cope with it. Themarket model will need to ensure that we pay attentionto those stewardship principles so that we get <strong>the</strong> verybest out of each sector— public, private and voluntaryor community.Q317 Chair: Yesterday at Adelaide House it wasquite striking to us that here was a facility providedby an agency of <strong>the</strong> Church of England diocese ofLiverpool operating on a small scale; it had someo<strong>the</strong>r projects, too. It was very challenging, but reallyit was only achievable at all because it was on thatsort of scale—not <strong>the</strong> very grand scale, for example,that was suggested for <strong>the</strong> original reorganisation ofprobation areas into huge contracting areas. Are youconscious that you must not lose <strong>the</strong> ability to bring inorganisations like this?Helen Grant: Yes.Ian Porée: For <strong>the</strong>se reforms to succeed, it is essentialthat we have both very effective local deliverystructures and community-based provision and <strong>the</strong>overarching disciplines of managing at scale supplychains and <strong>the</strong> financial risk we have been talkingabout. We would be looking to put in place that fullrange of provision and offering some of <strong>the</strong> oversight,as <strong>the</strong> commissioner, so that <strong>the</strong> Ministry of Justicegets <strong>the</strong> benefit of both of those things. In <strong>the</strong> end, <strong>the</strong>incentive will be to reduce reoffending. It would becompletely strange for an organisation that will be paidby effective results to get rid of very effective servicesat a local level, because <strong>the</strong>y will benefit from <strong>the</strong>quality of that service provision. That is what we willneed to protect in <strong>the</strong> system, along with <strong>the</strong> financialincentives.Chair: Minister, Mr Spurr and Mr Porée, thankyou very much for your evidence. This was <strong>the</strong> lastevidence session in relation to this subject, so we willset to work to prepare a report.

Hooray! Your file is uploaded and ready to be published.

Saved successfully!

Ooh no, something went wrong!