Women offenders: after the Corston Report - United Kingdom ...

Justice Committee: Evidence Ev 3729 January 2013 Jacqueline McKenzie, Deborah Cowley, Rachel Halford and Sherry AshfieldQ179 Jeremy Corbyn: When you are dealing withwomen who are convicted of drug‐mule offences, doyou have any evidence about how many of them aresubsequently removed to a place of even greater dangerbecause of returning to the place they have come from,not under threat necessarily from the authorities butunder threat from the people that coerced them in thefirst place?Jacqueline McKenzie: We do not have lot of dataabout that. We are going to be collecting some. Weare going to Jamaica next month to look particularlyat Jamaican cohorts, but we have had anecdotal storiesof people under threat and we have heard of one death.But I have to put on record that we have not been ableto substantiate this and will not be able to do so untilnext month.Yasmin Qureshi: May I make a clarification aboutthe issue my colleague over there raised about thesentencing? It is in the sentencing guidelines that, ifyou are in possession of even a forged passport, sixmonths’ imprisonment is the starting tariff. It is quitecommon to get six to 12 months in prison for documentoffences.Chair: In that case, I think we can turn to Mr Chishti.Q180 Rehman Chishti: Good morning. Under theheading “women and children”, you will be aware that17,240 children were separated from their mothersin 2010. Linked to that background, what would afamily‐friendly female custodial estate and regimelook like? There we are—all yours.Deborah Cowley: I will start off with that. The firstthing is that family would not have far to travel. Thefamily would know from the beginning where to go andwhat to expect. They would also know that they wereable to ask for help. So there needs to be court‐basedinformation services for families so that they can getthe help they need. One of the big things is that visitingwould be easier in a family‐friendly prison, and if yourfamily is fragmenting that is a difficult thing. Anotherbig thing is that children should be able to visit, and ithas been touched on before. Children who are in caredo get accompanied visits but often they are very few,so it might be twice a year. Children need to see theirfamilies often. Also, children have to be accompaniedby an adult right the way up to the age of 18, so thereare big issues in the way of children visiting and theycould visit more often if that was taken away.Another important thing I want to talk about is thata family‐friendly prison would be one that askedautomatically whether a prisoner was pregnant whenshe came in. That does not routinely happen at themoment. It does in some places, but it does not routinelyhappen. On finding out if a prisoner is pregnant, andalso when she has nearly had the baby, there should bea particular provision made. At the moment, there isno allowance made in budgets for additional food forpregnant prisoners. There is no arrangement for themto be able to eat frequently. Also, once they have hadtheir babies, they are expected to go back to work aftersix to eight weeks, which is not in accordance withwhat women who are not in prison would expect and itinterferes with attachment, and the whereabouts of thatwork might be very difficult. Actually, anybody whohas had a baby knows that they do not get into a settledroutine till three months. It is a really hard thing. Theseare some of the most vulnerable mothers in the countryand I would want to make sure that they were gettingthe equivalent care to very vulnerable mothers in thecommunity.Q181 Rehman Chishti: Can I stop you on that? Ihave raised with the Minister the issue about whensomebody comes into prison and they have checks formental health, dyslexia and other health issues, because,unless those issues are clarified, the person who is incustody may not be able to communicate as effectivelyas they could, but also the issue of pregnancy. Aren’tthere any checks, like all the other health checks thatare taken as soon as you go into custody? Doesn’t thattake place at the moment?Deborah Cowley: No.Q182 Rehman Chishti: Would anyone else like tocomment, or should I move on to my second question?Sherry Ashfield: I would like to add to that by sayingthat, if we are going to have family‐friendly prisons, wealso have to accept perhaps the less palatable aspectsabout risk and safeguarding. One of the concerns thatI have—and I have seen it coming out in the 2011report on female offenders in the community—is thelack of attention that is being given to safeguardingissues right across the estate and an assumption thatmothers will be able to parent very effectively. A lot ofthem can, but there are some mothers who will presenta range of different risks to their children, both in thecommunity and while in custody. That may meanthey need additional help to address some of thoseissues, but what we are generally seeing is that thereis a lack of awareness about the safeguarding dutythat all the agencies, not just the statutory agenciesbut the voluntary and third‐sector agencies, have inrelation to ensuring that all children are kept safe. Thatmeans looking at their emotional safety as well as theirphysical safety.Q183 Chair: You are dealing with female sexoffenders, among others, aren’t you?Sherry Ashfield: Yes.Q184 Chair: The numbers are not all that large as awhole, but they do seem to get rather ignored in all thediscussion about provision for women in prisons.Sherry Ashfield: Absolutely, and the safeguarding issueis not just about the female sex offenders. The 2011report by one of your colleagues, “Equal but different”,was just looking at female offenders per se and one ofthe things they identified in their review of the prisons,the probation service and record keeping was that therewas a distinct lack of detail paid to safeguarding issues.In almost half of the cases that they looked at therewere safeguarding issues in relation to children thatwere not being addressed, and some of those issuesrelated to the mothers themselves. So, yes, there areparticular issues we are very aware of because of thehigh‐risk category that we work with, but right acrossthe female estate, working with female offenders, it isan issue that is quite unpalatable and very often one wedon’t want to think about.