Women offenders: after the Corston Report - United Kingdom ...
Women offenders: after the Corston Report - United Kingdom ...
Women offenders: after the Corston Report - United Kingdom ...
You also want an ePaper? Increase the reach of your titles
YUMPU automatically turns print PDFs into web optimized ePapers that Google loves.
Ev 32 Justice Committee: Evidence29 January 2013 Juliet Lyon CBE, Frances Crook OBE and Clive Martinand diversion schemes in police stations and courtsacross England. They have a commitment to do thatby 2014. They promise £50 million to do so. Thosewill positively advantage women. They will advantageeverybody who has a learning disability or a mentalhealth need, but <strong>the</strong>y will positively advantage womenbecause, proportionately, <strong>the</strong>re are more women in thatcircumstance than <strong>the</strong>re are men. So, in terms of healthand welfare, <strong>the</strong>re are some strides being taken and<strong>the</strong>re are <strong>the</strong> new Health and Wellbeing Boards, whichwould capitalise on that.The o<strong>the</strong>r thing that we have not alluded to, and Iam sorry to bring it in on <strong>the</strong> back of your question,is that <strong>the</strong> LASPO Act—Legal Aid, Sentencing andPunishment of Offenders Act 2012—has introduced<strong>the</strong> “no real prospect” test in relation to remand andbail. Again, significantly more women are generallyheld in custody awaiting trial, sometimes in order toobtain a mental health assessment, and that is <strong>the</strong> linkwith your question. Magistrates are no longer allowedto do that unless <strong>the</strong>y have very particular reasonsfor remand. If someone is facing no real prospect ofa custodial penalty for <strong>the</strong>ir offending, <strong>the</strong>n <strong>the</strong>y willnot be held in custodial remand, which means thatwomen’s prison numbers are going to drop. It is <strong>the</strong>perfect time, given that <strong>the</strong>y are going to drop, to dosomething, one, about <strong>the</strong> leadership, two, about <strong>the</strong>estate, but in particular about <strong>the</strong> women’s centres andcreating a network of alternatives for <strong>the</strong> courts.There is leadership from <strong>the</strong> new Minister, who, Ithink, wants to succeed in reform and has a reformagenda of her own. It is <strong>the</strong> first time in a long time thata Minister has been given responsibility for women’sprisons as a group and for women <strong>offenders</strong>. That isimportant, but, unless opportunities are grasped, <strong>the</strong>nit will slip through our fingers. The Crime and CourtsBill was carrying an amendment, introduced in <strong>the</strong>Lords, about women, and we were really disappointedto see that <strong>the</strong> Government have just applied to strikeout that amendment at <strong>the</strong> Committee stage of <strong>the</strong> Bill.So maybe <strong>the</strong> Government are failing to grasp some of<strong>the</strong> opportunities presented.Q159 Graham Stringer: You took <strong>the</strong> opportunityto give a very comprehensive answer, but within thatanswer are you saying that <strong>the</strong> statistics that are keptnow are poor and not valuable and do you have asuggestion for improving those statistics?Juliet Lyon: They vary from one women’s centre toano<strong>the</strong>r. It is helpful having a co‐ordinating group,<strong>Women</strong>’s Breakout, and it is helpful that <strong>the</strong> Ministryof Justice has wanted to try and encourage or helppeople to evaluate, but <strong>the</strong> fact is that, as things stand,you would not get from each women’s centre <strong>the</strong> kindof quality of statistics that you would get from <strong>the</strong> best.Again, it is a question of learning from <strong>the</strong> best. Howcan information be kept and how can it be co-ordinatedacross different local authority departments such ashealth and housing? Would you say it was a success,for example, that a woman who had been in a desperatestate who came to a women’s centre, secured safehousing and was able to keep that safe housing becauseshe was a good tenant, was able to look <strong>after</strong> her child,who had maybe been in and out of o<strong>the</strong>r arrangements,but still occasionally shoplifted because she had notfully broken her drug habit? You need to think howwe would evaluate that as a success. Her offendingis beginning to drop, it has not ceased altoge<strong>the</strong>r, buto<strong>the</strong>r aspects of her life have been changed to <strong>the</strong> pointthat she is likely to be able to take more responsibilityfor her life.Q160 Graham Stringer: You touched on <strong>the</strong>answers to my next two questions as well, so we canbe relatively brief. Where does <strong>the</strong> shift from local tonational commissioning lead us—<strong>the</strong> post‐<strong>Corston</strong>agenda?Juliet Lyon: The shift from local to national?Graham Stringer: Yes.Juliet Lyon: We referred to it earlier in relation toconcerns. Potentially, it is not a good move becausewhat we have seen, and what Baroness <strong>Corston</strong> sawin her review, is local partnerships operating on a verylocalised basis and quite particularly <strong>the</strong> partnershipsbetween <strong>the</strong> probation trusts and <strong>the</strong> women’s centres,which appear to be doing very well. We are not clear yethow that will work in terms of national commissioning.It is important nationally to have some ring‐fencedmoneys. What is going to make <strong>the</strong> difference ismoney and you could say justice reinvestment—if youare closing women’s prisons, you are going to havesome money available to reinvest in more effectiveservices—and law, and I have referred to, currently,<strong>the</strong> amendment that is at least a legislative foothold forreform. But, if you cannot corral law and money, <strong>the</strong>n Iam not sure that just relying on national commissioningwill be enough. National commissioning has a place inthat it will say, “We will ring‐fence moneys or insiston moneys for women and prioritise women,” but itcannot do what can happen locally and we have notseen <strong>the</strong> arrangements in terms of how it is proposedto interrelate <strong>the</strong> local and <strong>the</strong> national. But Clive mayhave seen that through CLINKS.Clive Martin: I want to make <strong>the</strong> point that <strong>the</strong>re isa distinction between national commissioning for <strong>the</strong>whole estate as it is proposed in <strong>the</strong> rehabilitationrevolution—and, as a result of that nationalcommissioning, some service or o<strong>the</strong>r gets devolvedlocally for women—compared with maintaining anational commissioning model for women separate to<strong>the</strong> general commissioning model, if you see what Imean. While <strong>the</strong>re are some advantages to <strong>the</strong> latter,where <strong>the</strong>re is a national commissioning model thatat least can ensure that <strong>the</strong> money dedicated to thoseservices goes to women, I think <strong>the</strong>re is some potentialin that. In <strong>the</strong> former model, where we are talkingabout bundling up probation services into 16 differentlots that are let to a prime contractor—and within thatlot <strong>the</strong>re <strong>the</strong>n seems to be some complicated thinkingas to how you have rehabilitation services for peoplecoming out of prison as some sort of subcontract tothat lot, so you get <strong>the</strong> same provider and <strong>the</strong>n asano<strong>the</strong>r sort of subcontract to that you have somethingfor women in <strong>the</strong>re—it feels like it is all devolved fartoo many times for it to have any real meaning andit is losing value <strong>the</strong> whole time because of <strong>the</strong> waythat and profit taking and so on have to work. Thereneeds to be a distinction between <strong>the</strong> current nationalcommissioning model, from which women fall out as