Women offenders: after the Corston Report - United Kingdom ...

Ev 8 Justice Committee: Evidence18 December 2012 Rt Hon Baroness Corston and Liz Hogarth OBEQ26 Jeremy Corbyn: Could you explain how itworks in Scotland?Baroness Corston: The Scottish Executive have fundedthe 218 Centre in Glasgow. It is a city centre premises.Women can self-refer or they can be referred by GPs,social workers, or schools, if girls start truanting. Theyhave one floor that is secure, so women who are notable to leave the centre, who are there by order of thecourt, can be held. Staff from the centre go into thecourt on a regular basis whenever a woman is comingbefore the sheriff court. They are entirely accepted bythe court as professionals, who can make judgmentsand recommendations about the most appropriate wayto deal with a woman who is coming before the court.The court now, as I understand it, accepts absolutelythe professionalism and integrity of the people who runthat centre—and uses it routinely.I don’t know whether the Scottish Executive have donean evaluation. Certainly, when I was there and I metthe women, I found the whole thing very impressiveand moving. It was not necessarily a cheap option interms of setting it up, but the recent report by DameElish Angiolini—which points in almost exactlythe same direction as the recommendations I madefive years ago—has been easier to make in Scotlandbecause of the experience they have had in places likethe 218 Centre, which has been entirely beneficial. Atthe moment Scotland are leading the way.Q27 Jeremy Corbyn: We had a brief visit to Denmarkand Norway, mainly in respect of youth justice, but theinteresting thing discussed with the prison authoritiesthere was that there were timed opportunities to go toprison, often delayed sentences. That meant that theprisoners concerned did not lose their jobs and didnot lose their homes. It seems one of the problems,particularly for women prisoners on short sentences,is what you described earlier, where they lose theirjob and their home, and life is a complete disaster asa result of an often quite minor misdemeanour. Wouldyou want a change in the whole process of securinghousing accommodation where possible so that womenprisoners did not lose their homes on short sentences?Baroness Corston: Absolutely. If you spend any timein a women’s prison, it is very difficult to have aconversation with women prisoners; they don’t reallyhave much in the way of life skills. But when youask them, “What is it that you want”, we know thatthe holy grail of the Prison Service, for prisoners, isemployability. For women, it is somewhere to live. Ialways ask the question, “What is your priority?” Timeand again, I heard the heartbreaking lament, “I justwant somewhere for me and my kids.” In Scotland,it is, “I just want somewhere for me and my wains.”They come out of prison and family reunification isimpossible, because only 5% of the children of womenprisoners are looked after in the family home by thefather or by the male of the household. When a mangoes to prison, there is usually a woman to keep thehome fires burning. If a man wants to switch off fromfamily, which he should not when he is in prison, it ispossible. But it is not for women; their children aredispersed and reunification is frequently impossible.Q28 Jeremy Corbyn: I have a very quick lastquestion. Do you have any hard evidence of the rateof reoffending for people who go to women’s centrescompared with prison?Baroness Corston: What I would like to see from thisstrategy is an indication of what should be commonindicators for all women centres for success, because atthe moment they are all gathering evidence but they areall gathering different evidence that they thought aboutthemselves, which makes comparison impossible. Thisis another thing that is crucial to the strategy. Set outwhat the common standards should be.If I can give you one example, there is the ISIS centre inGloucester. Ask them for the figures that they have aboutthe women who have come through that centre. Thereoffending rate is minuscule, but it would be impossibleto make that comparison with other centres because theyare all doing their own thing. Within this strategy, whatwould be useful—and we have been waiting for nearlya year or two years, I suppose—is an indication to thosecentres of the kind of evidence that they should gatherin order to show their effectiveness, to Parliament and tothe public, for the money that they spend. If that happens,we would realise that these people do extraordinary workin supporting these women and stopping their childrenspiralling into the kind of antisocial behaviour with whichwe are all too familiar.Q29 Chair: We are very grateful for your evidencethis morning. Can I just check with you whether youare being involved by Ministers currently, in the currentGovernment, in taking any of these things forward?Baroness Corston: No. Lord McNally asked to see meon Monday of last week, because last March I movedan amendment to the Legal Aid, Sentencing andPunishment of Offenders Bill in the House of Lords,calling for a women’s strategy, saying that, if we didhave one and there was reporting to Parliament, wecould judge the Government’s effectiveness. That hasgone, and there has never been a strategy since the lastgeneral election. The vote there was tied 217 to 217,unfortunately, and, given the House of Lords procedure,it meant it was lost. The Minister said to me afterwards,“Don’t worry, we will have a strategy.” That was lastMarch. Last Monday he said to me, “There is going tobe a strategy, Jean”, but, with respect, I am now notholding my breath. What I find distressing is the timethat has been wasted and the momentum that has beenlost. I do have some confidence that Helen Grant, whois the new Minister and, who like me, practised as afamily lawyer—Chair: And a former member of this Committee.Baroness Corston: Good. I am hoping that she will begiven the support, which, as a Parliamentary Under-Secretary, she is going to need from her Secretary ofState to put together, publish and implement a strategy,because, if that happens, then women who work inthese centres all over the country and, of course, theIndependent Funders’ Coalition, will have an ideawhere the Government want them to go.Chair: Thank you very much indeed. We have to gointo private session, although there are some peoplewho are going to join us in that session who I think arealready in the public seats. So thank you very much foryour evidence this morning.