INTERVIEW WITH TADAO ANDO Interviewed by ... - FAMU SOA Home

INTERVIEW WITH TADAO ANDOInterviewed by Betty J. BlumCompiled under the auspices of theChicago Architects Oral History ProjectThe Ernest R. Graham Study Center for Architectural DrawingsDepartment of ArchitectureThe Art Institute of ChicagoCopyright © 2002The Art Institute of Chicago

This manuscript is hereby made available to the public for research purposes only.All literary rights in the manuscript, including the right to publication, are reservedto the Ryerson and Burnham Libraries of The Art Institute of Chicago. No part ofthis manuscript may be quoted for publication without the written permission ofThe Art Institute of Chicago.

CONTENTSPrefaceOutline of TopicsivviOral History 1Selected References 30Appendix: Curriculum Vitæ 33Index of Names and Buildings 35iii

PREFACEChicago’s reputation as the cradle of modern architecture and the home of theChicago School of Architecture has marked the city with singular architecturaldistinction. This esteem is generally acknowledged to be based on the work of localarchitectural talent. However, not as well known is the more recent parallel force ofEuropean and Japanese architects, whose contributions have helped shape today’surban environment and Chicago’s image as a global village. Pritzker ArchitecturePrize winner Tadao Ando has built two projects in Chicago, but, regrettably, thiswork has had scant recognition aside from ephemeral notices in the local press, anomission that we seek to redress in this interview.After an idiosyncratic program of self-education and work in related disciplines, in1969 Tadao Ando opened his office, Tadao Ando Architect and Associates, in Osaka,the city of his birth. It was not long before his distinctive and independent approachto architecture found its own voice and soon commanded the attention of clientsworldwide. Commissions in Chicago included the Japanese Screen Gallery at TheArt Institute of Chicago and a private residence in the city. Both projects impartAndo’s special blend of the tangible and intangible, the material and the sensory.Such achievements by this prominent architect deserve exploration anddocumentation for the historical record.On May 25, 2001, I met with Tadao Ando and his associate and translator, KulapatYantrasast, in Ando’s office in Osaka, where we recorded Ando’s recollections of hiswork in Chicago on one and a half sixty-minute cassettes. The day we met proved tobe a day when Ando had other unexpected demands on his time, so our session wassomewhat abbreviated. As Ando states, describing a space that the reader has notexperienced firsthand and, more generally, speaking through a third person wasdifficult for him. Nevertheless, in our exchange he covered the essential topicsperceptively and with candor and attention to detail. These tape recordings haveiv

een transcribed and have been reviewed by Ando’s wife, Yumiko, by KulapatYantrasast, and by Tadao Ando himself. The shape and content of this finaldocument benefits greatly from the conscientious effort and tireless devotion thatAndo and his reviewers expended to clarify and, in some instances, to furtherexpand his ideas. Above all, the spirit of Ando’s expression has been preserved. It isour hope that this undertaking will lead to a greater understanding of his designand approach.References that I found helpful in the preparation of this document are attached.Ando’s oral history joins others in the Chicago Architects Oral History Project at TheArt Institute of Chicago, where it is available for study in the Ryerson and BurnhamLibraries and in a downloadable, full-text version on the museum's website:http://www.artic.edu/aic/collections/dept_architecture/oralhistory.htmlI am grateful to Tadao Ando, as scholars will be in years to come, for his cooperationin sharing his recollections and ideas. Further, through Ando’s courtesy and that ofhis staff, I was provided with an opportunity to view firsthand a few of Ando’s mostcelebrated projects in Osaka and elsewhere, an invaluable experience for anunderstanding of Ando’s architectural vocabulary and unique expression. YumikoAndo, Tadao’s wife, and his associate, Kulapat Yantrasast, deserve our most sincerethanks. Without their conscientious and discerning attention in the dual-languagereview process of this document, the final version would not be as clear and detailedas it is. Annemarie van Roessel deserves our thanks and appreciation for her skillfultranscription and final conversion to an electronic version for the Internet. Finally,we are grateful to the Paul and Robert A. Barker Foundation for its generosity insupport of this project, without which this important narrative may not have beencollected.Betty J. BlumMarch 2002v

OUTLINE OF TOPICSFeatures of Chicago Architecture That Interests Ando 1Meeting Dr. Mino and SOM Partners 2Commission for the Japanese Screen Gallery at The Art Institute of Chicago 3Ando’s Intention in Design of the Gallery 4Commission to Design a Private Residence in Chicago 11Difficulties in Designing and Building a Private Residence in Chicago 12The Client’s Input 13The Presence of Nature in Ando’s Design 14American Contractors 15, 22Some Central Elements of Ando’s Design 17More About Features of Chicago Architecture 17The House In Its Neighborhood 18Ando’s Approach to Foreign Commissions 19Other Commissions in the United States 23Remembering Ando 24Some Honors and Awards 27vi

Tadao AndoBlum:Today is May 25, 2001, and I am with Tadao Ando and his associate,Kulapat Yantrasast, in his studio in Osaka. Tadao Ando’s work isknown and respected throughout the world, he has been recognizedwith numerous prestigious awards including the Pritzker ArchitecturePrize. Although most of his built work is in Japan, in Chicago we arefortunate to have two of his built designs. In 1989 you werecommissioned to design a gallery for Japanese screens at the ArtInstitute and a few years later, in 1992, you were commissioned todesign a private residence. Before we get into these specificcommissions, years earlier in the 1960s I know that you informedyourself about what architecture and what important buildings andarchitects were all about. I have read that you traveled all over, aroundthe world to see important monuments and the work of somearchitects. Was Chicago included on your study route?Ando:Well, of course, I was very interested in Chicago. I wanted to go therebecause there are many inspiring buildings. I was particularlyinterested in the Lake Shore Drive apartments by Mies van der Rohe.At the same time, I thought that Mies van der Rohe in his works wasalso influenced and impressed by the concept of the Chicago frame.That might have influenced him so as to formulate his concept of theglass and steel architecture. It might be possible that Daniel Burnhamin the Reliance building, with its curtain-wall structure, is a probablesource that Mies found and tried to develop on his own. So for me, to1

e able to go and see the original concept was one of my goals.Moreover, Frank Lloyd Wright, particularly the houses that he built inthe Oak Park area, and also some of the early works that he did whenhe was still within Sullivan’s office, especially the Auditoriumbuilding, attracted me. It was one of the very first examples of acomplex building which has different functions within one building,like a multi-use building.Blum:Was there anything that you learned about architecture in Chicago atthat time that either directly or indirectly influenced your thinking orlater work?Ando:It cannot be said that I learned something directly from architecture inChicago that influenced my thinking or later works. But I must saythat I learned particularly from Mies many important issues inarchitecture, such as, exacting proportion and thorough pursuit ofmaterials, which are essential for creating architecture. I also learned agreat deal from Frank Lloyd Wright and his predecessors. I was sointerested in the Robie house, with its very horizontal composition andlong projecting eaves. It may sound strange but from my visit to theRobie house, I reaffirmed an appreciation of traditional Japanesearchitecture. I recognized the importance of close interchange betweenthe different cultures in and behind architecture.Blum:About the Art Institute commission—I’ve spoken with Dr. YutakaMino, who was curator of Asian Art at the Art Institute at that time,who told me that he met you at a Skidmore, Owings and Merrill(SOM) partners’ meeting in Japan that he had been invited toaccompany. What is the story of your first meeting with Dr. Mino?2

Ando:The first meeting with Dr. Mino was at the time he came back to Japanwith a group of people from SOM. We have not known one anotherbefore. That was the first time for me to meet Dr. Mino. I will explainbriefly about my connection to the SOM group. I do not know if theystill have such a program now but in the late 1980s, every few years,the partners of SOM selected a country of historical and architecturalimportance for its annual meeting. Japan was selected as thedestination of their 1988 trip and some of the partners such as WilliamDrake and Bruce Graham especially wanted to meet me and tour someof my works during their trip. They were almost fifty including theirspouses and Dr. Mino was appointed as a navigator for Japanesetraditional culture then. I myself had been very interested in theUniversity of Illinois at Chicago campus project by Walter Netsch for along time. Because for me it was so stimulating to find one of the firstprojects generated by using computer analysis. So I personally met anumber of partners of SOM in my office in 1988. We did not talk aboutthe Art Institute project when we met Dr. Mino in Osaka for the firsttime. I do not know exactly, but I suppose Dr. Mino visited some of myworks. After he returned to Chicago he discussed with the director,Mr. James Wood, as they were thinking of having a Japanese screengallery within the Art Institute. At the time I believe they had adiscussion with some high-priests from the Todai-ji in Nara about whowould be appropriate for this job. After that they agreed that thecommission should be given to me.Blum:Why do you think some high priests in Nara were consulted? Did theselection of an architect have any religious significance?Ando:No. I don’t think there is any direct religious significance in theselection process of an architect for the Japanese screen gallery in the3

Art Institute. But the Art Institute has strong spiritual as well aspractical connections with Todai-ji, which has been respected as one ofthe pinnacles of Japanese Buddhism. As you know the grandexhibition, “Treasures of Japanese Buddhist Art from Todai-ji,” held atthe Art Institute in 1986 was a great success. Dr. Mino contributed tothe success of this important exhibition as the chief curator of theAsian Arts department at the Art Institute.Blum:Dr. Mino said that he had seen your work and really admired it andfelt that you were the right choice to design the Japanese screengallery. Had you done other interior spaces in museums beforeaccepting the Art Institute commission?Ando:That was my first and only work of that kind.Blum:Why do you think you were chosen for the job?Ando:Honestly, I do not know why.Blum:It’s an unusual design with sixteen pillars just inside the door of thegallery through which one sees the open space with the screens on twosides of the room. How did this design take shape?Ando:Well, first of all, I thought about the Japanese sense of spatial qualityand the difference between Japanese and Western sense of space, andthe material that is available. The Japanese screen is called byobu,which is normally inside of a room to be used as a temporarywindbreak and/or partition in its original use. It is also used as thetemporary dividing screen that will give privacy in the traditionalmulti-purpose room and/or function visually to suggest spatial depth.4

But it gradually became a decoration such as an art object. When I wascommissioned to design the screen gallery, I thought about how onecould put this Japanese art object within a different context.Simultaneously, I feel that art objects in museums tend to be exhibitedby itself, so they stand alone without a context. I wanted to create aJapanese feeling of space so that people can feel the spirit of the spacein which these art objects would have been located. And so I workedwith the pillars and some other elements in order to realize this vision.Blum:It has been said that you drew inspiration for your design from therock garden at the Ryoan-ji in Kyoto. Will you explain that?Ando:As is written at the entrance of the screen gallery of the Art Institute, Iwanted to display byobu not only as objects but also as a means tomake observers experience Japanese spatial aesthetics by placing themin a contemporary setting reflecting the inheritance of the spirit of theoriginal Japanese space. Byobu seen through the pillars embody theprofound love of nature by the traditional Japanese. In Ryoan-ji,visitors will meditate and find themselves by sitting on the verandaand watching space through rocks placed exquisitely in position on thewhite sand to see something important behind the material world.Blum:There are sixteen columns of oak. The space forces the viewer to stepinside the door and walk through the columns like a grove of trees, ina way, before coming to the viewing area. Was there a special reason touse almost half of the gallery space for the pillars rather than to displaymore objects?Ando:Well, I was trying to create the atmosphere or the feeling of space thatyou would have in Japanese traditional architecture. As I was saying5

efore, in the traditional architecture, when you enter the porch or theentrance hall of a house or of a building, you would look throughcolumns and you would see the byobu, or the screens, glowing in theback. This sense of space is very unique in how one perceives thescreen, so I would like to recreate that kind of feeling of the screen inthis context.Blum:You have said that the pillars define space and create an environmentthat enhances viewing the screens. Would you comment on the idea ofthe pillars as sculpture, individually as well as collectively in the gridconfiguration?Ando:Pillars in the byobu gallery are not intentionally made as sculpture.They are a kind of installation to express the depth of space. Intraditional Japanese space, pillars are normally put at the crossing oftatami mats in the grid configuration. One of the essentials of Japanesetraditional architecture can be said to be geometry. Pillars set inside ofthe byobu gallery symbolize the spirituality of Japanese traditionalarchitecture and the dim or restrained light of the space also representsthe Japanese traditional space.Blum:Do I understand correctly that walking through the pillars is part ofthe process of appreciating the screens?Ando:Yes, indeed. There are two elements here: first, I wished to recreate thespirit of the place where you would normally see the screens, andsecond, since museums would conventionally display the work inisolation from any context, I want people to perceive the screen withinthe spirit or the context that it belongs.6

Blum:The screens are not on a platform, they are not raised at all as mostmuseum objects are. They are on the floor level and placed around theperiphery of the room. Is that all part of creating the atmosphere of anoriginal setting?Ando:Yes, of course, if you see byobu in Japanese architecture, they would beplaced on tatami mats, which is on the floor in Japanese architecture.So the way it relates to people who are in the space is the same, so hereI wanted to recreate that feeling by having it placed on the floor at thesame level.Blum:Light is a very important element in your architecture and in thisgallery it’s quite dim as one enters the gallery and begins to movethrough the columns toward the screens. Soft light illuminates thescreens, but the source is florescent light, not natural light. This is quitedifferent from what I have seen in some of your other buildings. Whywas florescent light used?Ando:Well, I would have hoped that I could have used natural light withinthe room, but with the location of the room within the institution, itwas not possible to get the natural light in the space where the screensare exhibited.Blum:Do I understand correctly that there was the possibility of windowsthat could have brought in natural light?Ando:But that window was not in the location where the light could bebrought in to illuminate the screens.7

Blum:There are a few dark wood benches in the room. Did you design thosebenches for the space?Ando:Yes, they were specially designed for the space.Blum:You had an associate, a local architectural firm, that you worked withon this commission. It was Cone, Kalb and Wonderlick. How did thatfirm come to be your associate?Ando:Perhaps it was because I was working directly with the Art Instituteand that firm was selected by the museum to support this project. Iwas not directly involved with the selection process.Blum:Well, I spoke with Richard Kalb and he said that you were a pleasureto work with. He said that you were so easy to work with. Did youfind them as easy to work with as they found you?Ando:There was almost no direct contact or relationship between me and thelocal architectural firm.Blum:How was the communication effected then?Ando:For that, on that level, the staff of my office had contact with the localarchitect’s firm. So I did not really have the chance to have directcontact with that firm.Blum:One thing that Richard Kalb commented on was that you wanted thewood that was used in the gallery in a special cut. He called it riftsawnoak. He said that it was a little more expensive. Why was that cutspecified?8

Ando:I don’t have any recollection of that. I think this is the cut and the colorof wood that I wanted. Probably there may have been some otheroptions, but finally I chose to work with this one. This is the materialthat I felt comfortable with and that, in the final stage, I chose to workwith.Blum:It has been said that there were design features, such as the color of thecolumns and material of the floor, that you originally proposed butthat are not in the room we see today. How much input did the clienthave in decisions that influenced changes in the design?Ando:I was not discontented with the client’s reaction to my designproposals. At the same time, I think that Jim Wood and Dr. Mino reallywere very brave to be able to endorse this project in the way it is. Also,it’s very unique because it’s a gallery that is specially for the display ofthe Japanese screen and it’s a permanent space, so it is unique in thatsense.Blum:At the same time, or almost in the same years that the Art Institutegallery was being worked on you were also working on the Church ofthe Light, an extraordinary church in Osaka that through the courtesyof your office, I was fortunate enough to see this morning. I found thatthe Art Institute gallery and the Church of the Light are similar insome ways: both have dimly lit contemplative interiors, both spacesengender a feeling of spirituality, one can see and feel the texture ofthe wood in the benches and on the floor. From your point of view,was there a connection between the two projects?9

Ando:Of course, because when I chose to use wood as materials, I chose itbecause it could best express the quality of the element. For example,in this case, for the floor, I used to work with this cut of wood becauseit had a very good tactility when people walk on it. They feel at easeand they strongly feel their presence within the space. Conversely,another type of wood was selected for the pillars because it givesstrength to the form of the pillars. So, in each case, each of the elementsand materials was selected to fit with the expression, the spirit, of theelements.Blum:Was there any connection between the two projects?Ando:Because I’m the same man working on both, probably there wassomething that connects them on a level that I cannot explain well. Sothere would be something, even though I cannot put it into words,some connection, that made me make the decision to use the wood inboth projects.Blum:Dr. Mino said at the time the reinstalled Asian galleries reopened tothe public and your room was dedicated that it was his hope that thenew galleries will help to bring a greater understanding of the art andculture of China, Japan and Korea. How do you think the Japanesescreen gallery contributed to achieving this goal?Ando:Hopefully, yes.Blum:Now that you can look back on the project with some distance, giventhe opportunity, is there anything you would change?Ando:No.10

Blum:Has the Japanese screen gallery at the Art Institute brought othermuseum commissions to you?Ando:No.Blum:Is there anything more about the Japanese screen gallery that youwould like us to know?Ando:Not particularly. It’s difficult to talk about it because you have toexperience it by yourself in the space.Blum:Several years later, in 1992, you were commissioned to design a privateresidence in Chicago. From what I have read about a house that youdesigned early in your career, in 1976 in Osaka—the Azuma house—itseems to have provided the prototype for many of the houses thatfollowed. You have said, “it was my learned architectural manifesto.”What did you mean?Ando:Well, the Azuma house and the House in Chicago, even though theyare very different in their sizes, I believe that they are the same becausethey deal with the habitat of mankind, with people’s lives. For thatreason they speak about the same thing that I want to create in ahouse. When people live in a house or live in a place, I want them tofeel that they are living with nature. For example, in the case of theAzuma house, because the space in the middle is an open court, youcan sense the change of seasons from spring to summer to autumn andto winter. So people feel that they are living together with nature evenin the midst of the city and this is the same with the House in Chicago.At the same time, I want to give people the sense of living in a certain11

place, belonging to a particular place, which is Osaka in one case andChicago in the other.Blum:The Chicago residence—am I correct to understand that it was yourfirst complete American project?Ando:Yes, it is.Blum:Much earlier than the House in Chicago commission, you had writtenthat “it would be very difficult to build a house in America. I couldprobably do a shopping center or an art museum, but a house forpeople to live in would be difficult because I am not familiar withAmericans and I probably would not be able to do a house.” Why didyou decide to accept this commission in light of your statement?Ando:Well, first because I am Japanese. To have to design a house for anAmerican who is not living a familiar lifestyle would be very difficult.But in this case, the owner of the house, has a consistent passion andunderstanding for my works, he was willing to help and tocommunicate during the process of the house to make it work. So thefact that this house could be realized and finished in a way that weboth are very happy with is because of the contributions and intentionthat the owner has put into the project.Blum:I understand that the owner’s enthusiasm and commitment to theproject was a compelling factor for you to accept the commission, butwhat did you offer and propose that attracted him to you?Ando:The client personally researched my previous house projects and hemight have intuitively found some points that fascinated him. I don’t12

think I had offered or proposed to him anything out of the ordinary.But we are happy to have him as a client. We can well understand eachother beyond the difference of cultural background as well as languagebarrier.Blum:Under what circumstances did the client first contact you to proposethe commission?Ando:He wrote to me directly without any recommendation or introductionby others. He had seen an exhibition of my works held at MoMA inNew York in the autumn of 1991, he wrote to me in the spring of 1992inquiring if I would be interested in designing a house for him.Blum:Do you know if he had considered any other architects?Ando:I have no idea. He has never mentioned anything about that.Blum:Did the owner have input during the design phase, to help youunderstand how he was going to use the space or use the house?Ando:Well, of course, for a house, people all have their own ways of living.The client is very passionate about this, and he had a lot of inputduring the entire process.Blum:Can you give an example of this?Ando:Two major requests were clearly expressed. One is to keep privacy forthe people. The house is to be composed of three sections; one is ofcourse for the client himself. Second section is for his parents andanother section is for his guests. These three functions should be well13

combined. Keeping privacy for each section with open spaces, whichserve to connect them together. Also he has one giant poplar(cottonwood) tree in his garden and he wanted to preserve it in thenew house’s garden as well.Blum:I was fortunate enough recently to go through this extraordinary houseand it may be that the owner owns the house, but it seems, the houseowns the owner. He is completely devoted to it and its care. Did youanticipate that?Ando:Well, first the house was finished successfully because of the ideas thatI had, together with the devotion and passion that the client had inorder to realize his dream in the house. I feel that a typical process ofbuilding a house, not only abroad but also in Japan, is very difficult.You may have your ideas and at the same time the client has his ownways of living, his preferences, so to combine these within onesuccessful process could be difficult. In this case, because of ourrelationship and his understanding, it was possible to achieve in a verysuccessful way.Blum:You have said that one of your design goals for this house is aboutpeople living together with nature. That is surely evident in the Housein Chicago because the entire interior looks inward towards thereflecting pond and garden whose ever-changing shadows andreflections color the mood of the house at every moment. Will youexpand on that idea and explain why nature is so essential to yourarchitecture?Ando:We are living in the high-pressured society. We are over-burdenedwith advanced technology. We need to balance our daily life between14

our native circulation and the high-pressured technological aspects. Ibelieve the necessity to sense nature that surrounds our life hasbecome more and more critical. I hope my building will awakenpeople’s sensitivity toward nature in their everyday life.Blum:Why did the project take six years to complete?Ando:Well, the fact that it took six years to construct was based on thecontractors. When the first contractor finished the first floor—theycould not continue the work. So then another one had to be hired tocontinue the work.Blum:Why did the first contractor stop to work?Ando:Because they were not able to build the house up to the quality that theclient and I wished. They could not continue to do it. They realizedthat they could not do the quality of work that was demanded for thatproject.Blum:Was this a problem of poor American workmanship, or was it adifference in how concrete is handled in Japan and in America?Ando:Many factors can be so different starting from the perception or theunderstanding of concrete as a material here in Japan and in America.The craftsmanship, the knowledge, and the level of expectation arealso very different. Moreover, the expertise or the method of how thesupervisor or the project manager controls the project…Blum:Are you referring to the contractor?15

Ando:The contractor, yes. It was rather different. So, for the first time, theteam from Japan and the team from America would have to worktogether. It was difficult because it’s the first encounter. Theappreciation and understanding of architecture were different—I’mnot saying that one is better and one is worse—but because they seedifferent things in architecture and for communication to take off, itcould take some time.Blum:There was a local architectural firm that was connected to this projectas well. What were they responsible for?Ando:Yes, we had a Chicago-based architect. They were responsible for theexecution of our design and supervising the construction on a dailybasis.Blum:How did you achieve communication between the two offices on thepractical as well as the conceptual level?Ando:Of course, by the traditional forms of communication, telephone andfax are some conventional modes of conveying the intentions and theinformation. It seems that they also understood the design andconcepts up to a level but because our backgrounds in architecturewere quite different, some things may not have been totallyunderstood at first.Blum:So there were some things that were not totally understood perhapsbecause their background was different?Ando:Yes, probably. If you wish to, we can cover or talk about something ingeneral, more in terms of the conceptual issues, my thoughts of16

architecture. Well, some of these questions are not very interesting.They are not the central elements to the design of the building or to thepresence of the building.Blum:What are the central elements to the design and presence of thebuilding?Ando:Some of the important ideas are the close relationship withnature—light, water, wind and existing tall trees—private/publiczoning and exterior/interior continuity. The most important is tomaintain the quality of living of the occupants. We discussed with theclient regarding his hope how he wants to live his own life. We shouldknow what is the most important for the client prior to starting ourdesign.Blum:Did the architectural tradition of Chicago exert any pressure on you,your working procedure, or your design?Ando:Chicago is one of the most special places for an architect becauseChicago has a long tradition and rich heritage of early modernistarchitecture. In Chicago, you have a number of masterpieces createdby master architects such as Mies van der Rohe, Wright and LouisSullivan. It can arguably be called the land of father architects. It wasof course such a thrilling experience for me to design a house for aclient in the center of Chicago because I had long been an admirer ofMies, Wright and Sullivan. But to be commissioned for a project inChicago did not put any particular pressure on me. Rather it is veryinteresting for me to challenge it to the new horizon. If I got startedtalking about Chicago, it could well be a very long story. So I don’tknow if it would be appropriate to speak about it today.17

Blum:Would you speak just a little bit about it, about how it touched yourwork in the city?Ando:That would be a long story. Well, first, if you talk about Chicago, it’sthe first place where skyscrapers were built and developed. Of course,in the architectural society we know that there’s a system called theChicago frame, which was discovered in the 1800s. That was a greatmoment in history when the structural interpretation and thearchitectural expression became united in one single architectural formor prototype. At the same time, because of the invention of theelevator, conditions were ripe for a particular type of building to takeshape, which was the skyscraper. Within that context of Chicago, acreation of a new type in architecture, an original, I see the House inChicago…Blum:The House in Chicago looks dramatically different from its neighborson the street. What was your thinking about the contrast between thehouse you designed and other houses on the street?Ando:The site is located in midtown Chicago, where dwellers have naturallybustled outside of their houses. So I wanted to create a serene microcosmoswithin the private space. Also I did not want to disturb thestreetscape by inserting something much too strong.[Tape 1: Side 2]Blum:You have written an article titled “Wedge in Circumstances.” Is thatwhat you feel the House in Chicago is about?18

Ando:For me, architecture will always be located within a given context orcircumstance and that article expressed the meaning of how a newintervention could fit within circumstances. By putting in this wedgeor this new element in a given context, you are creating a newinfluence over the entire thing and an improvement for the wholecircumstances or the environment.Blum:Do you feel the House in Chicago is an example of such a “wedge”?Ando:Yes, I can say that, yes.Blum:From what I read, you are doing many overseas projects, manyAmerican projects. You have said, “everything is different whenworking overseas.” What are some of the biggest hurdles you are facedwith when working overseas?Ando:Well, probably one of the most difficult challenges would be becausepeople in Japan and people in Europe or America or different placeshave different understandings or different consciousness towardthings in society. Of course, we also have different values when itcomes to architecture. So these are the first things that have made itdifficult.Blum:You and your architecture seem so very independent. How do youaccommodate these cultural differences?Ando:What you have to do is try to understand the context of the placewhere you will be working, in terms of trying to understand theclimate or the cultural context or cultural history of that place in orderto be able to work well within those conditions. For example, when19

Frank Lloyd Wright came to Japan to work on some of his projectshere… There’s a house he designed in the Kansai area, the Yamamurahouse. In 1915 when he came to work on the Imperial Hotel in Tokyo,he was building this house in the Kansai area at about the same time.For that house, when you look at this house , you see the expressionthat he tried to incorporate: his understanding of Japanese culturetogether with his individual expression as an architect. It is interestingbecause when you look at Frank Lloyd Wright’s life, he had been veryinterested in Japanese art. He had a strong admiration for the ukiyo-epaintings, which he also collected. He was influenced in a way by hisexperience at the World’s Columbian Exposition in Chicago. When hesaw the Japanese pavilion, a replica of the Ho-o-den [Phoenix Hall] ofByodo-in temple from Japan, he was deeply impressed. Frank LloydWright might have learned a lot from looking at the Byodo-in. It’s alsoknown that he was influenced by the writings in The Book of Tea byOkakura Tenshin. It might be then that he realized that the space ofarchitecture was not what would be defined by the floor, the wall, theceiling, but it was actually the space itself that exists within that madethe space of the building. The importance of architecture resides not inindividual elements such as wall, pillar and floor or ceiling. But theactual invisible space inside is the essence of architecture. Wrightmight have learned this from The Book of Tea. So with his independentthinking, he developed his ideas of the Prairie-style house, whichseems to spread its wings out into the landscape. It then becomes ahouse type quite unique in its own achievements. The result may nothave a direct relationship to the building that had inspired it, thearchitect has developed the thought on his own system. It is the samefor architects in Japan who learn about architecture in the West and tryto combine that knowledge with their independent thinking in order todevelop something new.20

Blum:Are you saying that this is what you have done with foreigncommissions?Ando:Well, I think you can say that. You may not be able to see it within theform, but for the spirit of the place or the spirit of the architecture, I tryto understand and learn from the local context.Blum:One of the big differences that is said to be very difficult to reconcile isthe Japanese sense of impermanence and the Western sense ofpermanence, and the materials architects choose to express those ideas.How do you accommodate that in your thinking?Ando:Of course, these are two different modes because with Japanesearchitecture the sense of impermanence is almost like insulation at onetime. Japanese traditional architecture, which had impermanence ofmaterials, was aimed to be with nature and decayed with nature. Theyare very light, fragile and breakable as they mostly employ naturalmaterials such as wood, paper and natural pebbles. They decaygradually in due course of time but the spiritual essence will last.Whereas the architecture in the West is very permanent in its use ofmaterials. For me, both are oscillating ideas that I use at different timesand in combination.Blum:And with Western commissions?Ando:Modern architecture as we know it is a development from the Westernway of thinking, from Western civilization, especially in architecture.But within that context, I try to incorporate the Japanese senses or theJapanese spirit.21

Blum:Because Chicago climate extremes can be so harsh—very cold andwindy in winter and very hot and humid in summer—what role didthat play in the design and selection of materials that you used in theHouse in Chicago?Ando:Even in Japan there are different kinds of climate. For example,Hokkaido, which also has a harsh weather similar to Chicago, I alwaysimagine buildings within that context, and try to understand it. Sowhen I was working for the House in Chicago, I recalled theexperience of that Hokkaido work and tried to understand the climatein Chicago.Blum:Did the House in Chicago provide an opportunity to try anyinnovative features that you had not used before?Ando:Well, first I was trying to accommodate the complete context of theplace and at the same time trying to present this sense of integration ofoutside and inside, which is very common in Japan. Trying to put thatin a Western context for the first time was, in a way, a challenge. Iwanted to see what would be developed out of that attempt.Blum:In your opinion, how would you evaluate that effort?Ando:I’m satisfied with the outcome. At the same time, the tireless supportand devotion of the client to the realization of this project was criticalto that success. But even beyond that, I’m also impressed with theeffort and attempt of the contractor.Blum:The second contractor?22

Ando:Up to the completion there were three contractors. All of them workedvery hard to try to achieve the building in the best way. It was notsomething that they had experienced before as well.Blum:Would you take on another residential project in the States?Ando:You mean if a chance comes? Well, now I’m working on oneresidential project, which will be a house next to a house designed byRichard Meier in Dallas. But still, even after the realization of theHouse in Chicago, it’s still very difficult to realize a residential projectwithin the States, because it needs a lot of understanding.Blum:Do you think the House in Chicago helped you get the Dallascommission?Ando:No, I don’t think so. The client of the Dallas house has no directconnection to the owner of the House in Chicago. They have their owntaste and norm to judge and each one contacted me after dueconsideration by themselves.Blum:Do you have other projects in the United States?Ando:I’m working on some other projects in the United States—for example,the Modern Art Museum of Fort Worth, Texas, and also the soon-to-beopened Pulitzer Foundation for the Arts in St. Louis and the Caldermuseum in Philadelphia. Also I’ve been commissioned to work on theexpansion for the Clark Art Institute in Williamstown,[Massachusetts]. Even though I’ve been working for some projects inthe United States, a house is still a difficult task to tackle.23

Blum:Have you become an American art museum specialist?Ando:No, no. I have not become that.Blum:I know that you have entered some competitions. I would like to showyou one that I think is one of your earliest. Do you remember this one?Ando:Yes, of course, I remember this. It’s the “Late Entries to the ChicagoTribune Competition.” But in a way this is not really a competition,because it is something that is born out of my imagination.Blum:It looks like a shoji screen skyscraper to me. Mr. Ando, how would youlike to be remembered?Ando:Especially for architects, you never know if you will be remembered orjust gone by nameless. It’s very difficult and it’s almost natural that thefuture will choose to remember what it wants to remember. But if Icould be remembered, I would like to be remembered as an architectwho courageously pursue his own ideas and ideal without beingtrifled with the architectural streams of time.Blum:If you had your choice, what would you want?Ando:I want my work to be able to provoke thoughts in people when theycome in contact with the buildings or with the architecture. In thiscase, a house in which they feel that they are connected with nature,that they’re living within this place which is Chicago and that inspiresthem to do something for themselves. I want my architecture toembody that power. For example, I want people to feel as if the wind is24

passing through these columns and creates something that remindsthem of something beyond physicality. Another example, when youare in this space and look out to this outdoor space, you feel theconnection between the space, you feel the depth, you feel somethingbeyond just physical elements that are there.Blum:Mr. Ando, I know you’re impatient because you have many othercommitments today, including a friend’s funeral. I want to thank youvery much for the time that you’ve given to this interview.Ando:For me it’s very difficult to give interviews like this.Blum:Do you mean speaking through an interpreter? Was it this process thatyou find difficult?Ando:It’s difficult in the sense that I will never be able to communicatedirectly with the actual audience because, for example, if you put theinformation on the web site and someone comes to read it, I’mconcerned whether that medium could convey the ideas that I have. Sofor this reason it is difficult to be specific or to make oneselfunderstood.Blum:When the first draft of our exchange is transcribed, if you want to addanything to make your ideas clearer we, of course, would welcomethat.Ando:Thank you, but I don’t feel that I would have so much more to speakabout. One thing I’m curious about is that you mentioned that I appearindependent. But I don’t feel myself that I’m independent. Do youthink I am?25

Blum:I think you are independent. Absolutely! I hope you understand that itwasn’t an insult. I said it as a compliment. I think it’s a quality thatvery few architects are able to achieve.Ando:Oh, I understand. Thank you. But I don’t feel that I am like that. But Iwant to get the absolute freedom or liberty throughout my life. I willnever want to insult others unreasonably and I do not want to beinsulted by others unfairly. We should respect each other to make apositive difference in person, character, culture, religion and others.Blum:Well, I think that many people see you and your work like that.Ando:People probably perceive me as being independent because I do notsocialize much. For example, if there is an exhibition of the PritzkerPrize architecture, I would not go, or if there are receptions or awards,something like that, I would hardly go. Many people may think that Iam independent or isolated in that sense, because I do not go to certaintypes of events or social gatherings.Blum:That wasn’t the idea behind what I said about being independent. Ithink that your architecture stands alone; it’s so unique, it’s soremarkable, so different from everything else. That’s what I see as anexpression of your independence. Just your manner as I’ve had contactwith you for the last hour or so, leads me to believe that you’re veryindependent.Ando:For me, I think that architecture, even though itself it’s independent asan element, it converses with so many things around it: the26

environment or things around that make it become itself. Do you thinkthat’s true? Do you see it in the work?Blum:I see it in the work and I’ve had the unique opportunity to see it in theman. I am struck that you feel that “independent” may not be the mostappropriate word to describe you and your work. You mentioned thePritzker Architecture Prize and said you don’t care about prizes andawards like that—incidentally, that’s a very independent tosay—however, when you did win the Pritzker Prize, you donated themoney to a fund for children who had been orphaned by theearthquake in Kobe. The prize money really allowed you to dosomething wonderful for some people in need. So do you think a littledifferently about prizes now?[Tape 2: Side 1]Ando:Now I fully understand why you use the word “independent” todescribe me and my works. I am happy with that. Thank you verymuch. I was glad. Because of the prizes that I’ve received, I’ve beenable to endow a lot of things that I find in need in our society. Forexample, the Pritzker Prize that you mentioned, I gave the money tothe fund for the orphans from the earthquake incident in 1995. At thesame time, when I received the money from the CarlsbergArchitectural Prize, I gave it to an exchange program betweenJapanese and Asian students. I didn’t feel that I had particularlylabored to receive such a prize, so it’s better to give that to someoneelse and let them try to make something out of that.Blum:Well, that was very generous.27

Ando:I think that is importantly what an architect can do for the society. It’ssomething that every architect should think about, especially whenyou can show to the society that an architect from our own occupationcan contribute to make it a better place, it is very strong. Then societyrecognizes the importance of architecture in return. This kind ofrelationship is really important. So probably by being independent, it’sbecause I’m able to work on many of these social projects freely uponmy own beliefs and my own responsibility. I have my own way ofworking in the system.Blum:While you were speaking and I heard the word “independent” comeback again, I think that synonymous with “independent” would be“courageous.”Ando:Thank you. Next time I will give a lecture in connection with theinauguration of the Pulitzer Foundation in October. If you have achance, please come to the event. Jim Wood, the director of the ArtInstitute will also be coming.Blum:Well, thank you very much. How do you view your Chicagocommissions in the context of the larger body of your work?Ando:I am not so interested in the scale of architecture. Either it is large orsmall, I would like to pursue achieving the quality of space. I don’tthink the byobu gallery in The Art Institute of Chicago is small. BecauseI wanted to realize the spiritual depth and spatial richness in the byobugallery. I am still challenged to design a house at its minimum size. Itencourages me and gives me energy to keep challenging.28

Blum:It has been written that Tadao Ando is as much an artist as an architectand a builder. We have in our collection at the Art Institute, two verylarge color lithographs of the Urban Egg. We also have a portfolio often smaller silk-screened prints of your various projects. Why do youmake art prints?Ando:These prints or these kinds of drawings are the things that I have beendoing for more than thirty years. Because I wish to express mythinking and so I tried to convey the idea through these drawings. It’salso because I always try to keep record of the progress of my thinkingby making these drawings. I think that some of the drawings were alsomade for the collection of the Art Institute.Blum:The ten that we have, are they of your most important projects?Ando:Yes, some of the representative projects. This is also for you to take.This is a new book with some of the photographs of the places whereyou visited in Japan this time.Blum:Thank you very much. It’s a lovely souvenir.29

SELECTED REFERENCESAndo, Tadao. “New Relations Between the Space and the Person.” Japan Architect247 (October/November 1977):44-46.“Ando vs. Isozaki” Casabella 62 (February 1998):12-29Debartolo, A. “Art in All Its Majesty.” Chicago Tribune, 1 June 1992, p. 14.Fawcett, Chris. “On Tadao Ando: A Cube Descending a Staircase.” Japan Architect(April 1985):43-45.Finne, Nils C. “Aalto Award to Ando…” Architecture 74 (October 1985):11-12.Frampton, Kenneth, editor. Tadao Ando Buildings, Projects, Writings. New York:Rizzoli, 1984.Francesco Dal Co. Tadao Ando Complete Works. London: Phaidon Press, Ltd., 1995.Furuyama, Masao. Tadao Ando. Basel, Switzerland: Birkhauser, 1996.Goldberger, Paul. “Laureate in a Land of Zen and Microchips.” New York Times 23April 1995, p. 38.Goozner, Merrill. “Having a Heart.” Chicago Tribune 21 April 1995, p. 2._____ “Tadao Ando: a Designer of Dreams.” Chicago Tribune 31 May 1992, p.5.Kamin, Blair. “Ando Gallery Opens in Chicago.” Architecture 81 (September 1992):25.Muschamp, Herbert. “Architecture of Austere Works Receives the Pritzker Prize.”New York Times 17 April 1995.Newman, M. W. “Japanese Architect Wins Pritzker Award.” Chicago Tribune 17April 1995, p. 3.Nino, Raul. “Urban Zen.” Chicago (January 1997):16.Pare, Richard. The Colours of Light Tadao Ando Architecture. London: Phaidon Press,Ltd., 1996.Pollock, Naomi R. “Building for the First Time on American Soil, Japanese ArchitectTadao Ando Tests the Wintry Waters of Chicago.” Architectural Record 187 (April1999):132-37.30

_____. “In the Japanese Spirit: Japanese Screen Gallery.” Architectural Record 180(September 1992):86-91.Stringfellow, George. “Mastery in Mystery.” Architectural Review 193 (July 1993):8._____. “ Stage for Life.” Architectural Review 208 (July 2000):42-47.“Tadao Ando: Eychaner/Lee House.” Architecture and Urbanism 11 (November1998):118-123.“Tadao Ando: Eychaner/Lee House.” GA Houses 45 (March 1995):10-12.“Tadao Ando: Eychaner/Lee House.” GA Houses 57 (August 1998):30-53.“Tadao Ando Architect & Associates: Eychaner/Lee House.” Japan Architect 31(1998):10-31.Warke, Val K. Review of “Tadao Ando: The Yale Studio and Current Works.” InJournal of Architectural Education, 43 (Summer 1990):48-50.Waxman, Sharon. “A Natural Designer.” Chicago Tribune 28 May 1995, p. 13-14.31

CURRICULUM VITAEBorn:13 September 1941, Osaka JapanEducation: Self educated, 1962-1969Traveled in Europe, Africa United StatesWorkExperience:Various jobs: prepared billboards, interiors, furniture, sculptor’sassistant, worked part-time in architectural office, 1960-1965Established Tadao Ando Architect & Associates, 1969 +VisitingProfessor: Yale University, 1987Columbia University, 1988Harvard University, 1990Tokyo University, 1997Selected HonorsAnd Awards: Architectural Institute of Japan, 1979Alvar Aalto Medal, The finnish Association of Architects, 1985Gold Medal of Architecture, French Academy of Architecture, 1989Honorary Fellow, The American Institute of Architects, 1991Arnold W. Brunner Memorial Prize, American Academy andInstitute of Arts and Letters, 1991Carlsberg Architectural Prize, Denmark, 1992Chevalier de l’order des Arts et des Lettres, France, 1995Pritzker Architecture Prize, 1995Royal Gold Medal, Royal Institute of British Architects, 1997Officier de l’ordre des Arts et des Lettres, France, 1997Gold Medal, The American Institute of Architects, 2002SelectedExhibitions:A New Wave of Japanese Architecture, Institute for Architecture andUrban Studies, New York, 1978Tadao Ando: Minimalisme, Institut Francais d’Architecture, Paris,1982Tadao Ando’s Architecture, Helsinki and Jyvaskyla, Finland, 1983Tadao Ando: Architecture, Sofia, Bulgaria, 1985Beyond Horizons in Architecture, Museum of Modern Art, New York,1991Beyond New Horizons, Centre Georges Pompidou, Paris, 1993Tadao Ando: Architect. St. Louis, Missouri, 200132

INDEX OF NAMES AND BUILDINGSArt Institute of Chicago, JapaneseScreen Gallery, Chicago, Illinois 3-10Auditorium Building, Chicago, Illinois2Azuma House (aka Row House),Sumiyoshi, Osaka, Japan 11Burnham, Daniel Hudson 1Byodo-in Temple, Phoenix Hall, Uji,Japan 20Calder Museum, Philadelphia,Pennsylvania 23Church of Light, Osaka, Japan 9Clark Art Institute, Williamstown,Massachusetts 23Cone, Kalb & Wonderlick 8Drake, William (Bill) 3860-880 Lake Shore Drive, Chicago,Illinois 1Graham, Bruce 3House in Chicago, Chicago, Illinois11-19, 22-23Modern Art Museum of Ft. Worth,Fort Worth, Texas 23Museum of Modern Art (MoMA),New York City, New York 13Netsch, Walter 3Pulitzer Foundation, St. Louis,Missouri 23, 28Reliance Building, Chicago, Illinois 1Robie, Frederick (house), Chicago,Illinois 2Ryoan-ji Temple, Kyoto, Japan 5Skidmore, Owings & Merrill (SOM) 2,3Sullivan, Louis 17Tenshin, Okakura 20Todai-ji Temple, Nara, Japan 3, 4Wood, James 3, 9, 28Wright, Frank Lloyd 2, 17, 20Yamamura, Tazaemon (house),Ashiya, Japan 20Yantrasast, Kulapat 1Imperial Hotel, Tokyo, Japan 20Japanese Pavilion, World’s ColumbianExposition 1893-1894, Chicago,Illinois 20Kalb, Richard 8Meier, Richard 23Mies van der Rohe, Ludwig 1, 2, 17Mino, Yutaka 2, 3, 4, 933