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height variation, say. across the width of a large room. You can either providean inset map with ceiling contours, or you can provide numbers.My "bedrock floor" symbol is from Vineyard.21In summary: I like several of your suggestions, and I have a few for youwhich shouldn't do too much violence to the AMCS system. Please consider myarguments where I still disagree and fire off another round of discussion.My cover letter to the BOG, which went out last week with copies of myrevised map list (the one I sent to you this year) states that AMCS is going topropose their list as a substitute "NSS Standard." If you're not there, I hope youcan arrange for someone to provide copies to the BOG before the meeting is over, sothat the AMCS list can be considered, or sent to committee, or whatever is done aboutthis next time around.Speleologically,JimComments on Hedges' LetterBy Bill RussellThe detailed comments were especially welcome and from communications abetter list should develop. I like the new pillar representation -- in most mapswhere floor detail is shown it is not necessary to show the walls as the "cave" isfull of symbols and stands out well, but where it is necessary to show pillars thenew symbol is good. The upper level and lower level symbols actually are used onlywhere passages cross and do not imply a "level" but only a crossing above or below.The wording on the new list has been changed so as to make this more obvious. Incomplex vertical caves with several superimposed levels the plan view of the entirecave frequently can give only the horizontal exten~ of the cave, with most of thedetail given in profiles, insets, and cross sections. The objection that the AMeSsymbol for flowstone resembles an inkblot does not seem valid as unwanted ink blotsare rare and easily removed. The AMCS list uses a solid hatchured line for pits belowthe floor level and broken hatchured lines for domes, and combinations of these fora dome pit. Several years ago the AMCS decided to use broken hatchures for ceilingfeatures and the first used a dot between the hatchures, but these were hard to drawand were omitted. Hedges should be aware that most cavers use "syphon" to mean apassage full of water, whether or not any syphoning action takes place. The AMCSlist follows this common usage. Geology symbols should be included on the basic list;any surveyor who is able to map a cave can measure strike and dip. A dome pit is adistinctive feature that cuts through preexisting cave levels and perhaps a uniquesymbol should be provided for this, as for example, ~ , but many compromisesare possible. Water seems to be the main problem, and a discussion ofwater symbols follows excerpts from Hedges' article on cave maps.