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18the Crowthers, for instance, be asked to round up a review committee. The listI'm proposing is my own work, although it was compiled from many sources andwith a great deal of assistance.You will recall that the research was done about 5 years ago, so somepeople currently active as cave cartographers, such as John Corcoran, were notincluded because they hadn't become prominant. You will note in the "Acknowledgements"the following western cavers: Ray de Saussure, Bill Halliday Carl Kunath(one of the very best), Jim Quinlan, yourself (Russell), Dick Schreiber,A. RichardSmith. Terry Raines was contacted but characteristically failed to reply. I admireRaines' work, but he has never been very communicative.There's no argument, to my knowledge, that there should be a condensed,"basic" list and an exhaustive "supplemental" list. I would suggest the followingfor the basic list:horizontal entrancepassagecross sectionunderlying passageunsurveyed (unexplored) passageslopevertical droppassage height (air-filled)stalagmites presentstalactites presentcolunms presentrimst one damsflowstone on floorblock breakdownpitdomesmall streamlarge streamlakeThis is a total of 18; more or less could be included. I'm not too concerned toargue over what would be appropriate, but 15 or 20 symbols should be the limit.It is simply impossible not to have conflicts with other lists. I mean, youphysically cannot come up with a list which does not have a few conflicts with"symbols commonly in use elsewhere to show a different feature." I·ve tried notto propose changing any symbol in common use in the US -- which is why I'm notentirely congruent with the UIS list of symbols, but there's no use trying toavoid conflicts with all other USA lists, not to mention avoiding internationalconflicts.It would be a good idea to change my pillar symbol, yes. How about this typeof hatching, it's often used overseas to indicate the bedrock wall of the ~ave:I.Both the basic and the supplemental lists should be adopted as the NSSstandard. Otherwise, we're right back to having no standardization. That's whatwe're trying to establish in the first place.The only outright conflicts between AMCSand myself are:massive flows tone I define this as "column"stalactites -- I use the USGS symbol for chertstalagmites -- dobedrock floor -- AMCS resembles my "boxwork" symbolWhen you say, "talus", Ithink you mean slab or chip breakdown. Talus is a