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City of Thibodaux Zoning Review - South Central Planning ... City of Thibodaux Zoning Review - South Central Planning ...

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Thibodaux Zoning Review 2010the Chamber for 13 years and for all of those 13 years we continuously get feed back from ourmembers, from the business community at large about the restrictions that our current ordinanceplaces on businesses ability to conduct commerce. We do need a comprehensive study doneimmediately. I just recently graduated from the Community Development Institute in Conway,Arkansas at the University of Central Arkansas and one of the first things I learned in my very firstyear was that zoning needs to be consistently reviewed and that is why perhaps need to have aprofessional planner within the City of Thibodaux but at least every five years a review needs to bemade by every ten years we need to have a comprehensive review. It’s been thirty years, it is farpast time and I hope that you will consider on behalf of all the businesses and residents of the Citof Thibodaux because as you know we had a committee about a year and a half ago that we diddrive bys around town looking at neighborhoods and we saw more than 100 examples of buildingsthat were once used as neighborhood grocery stores or shoe stores or whatever that were boardedup and abandoned. So not only was that property not in use for the purpose it was intended, theentire character of neighborhoods have changed as a result of boarding of buildings inneighborhoods so the Chamber would really like to see a comprehensive review conducted.Thank you. Mr. Breaud replied thank you. Would anybody else like to speak on this option? Ifnot, we’ll go to Option 2 which is mixed use zone which is pretty much in line with what we justtalked about zoning. You know mixed use, everybody is familiar with what we talked about, we’vegot some non-conforming and non-conforming uses and this would also play in the part with thezoning study and the comprehensive study. Would anybody like to make a comment on Option 2.Mr. Kearns stated I know that in the study that Cathy just referenced a lot of that was visible I can’tsay throughout entire Thibodaux but there is certain pockets of it that would definitely fall intomixed use. Mr. Breaud then asked if there were any other comments anybody would like to make.If not we’ll go to Option 3, it is really number 5, Manufactured, Mobile and Modular Homes, SouthCentral Planning has presented some short term recommendations and also some long termrecommendations and also tried to help out with the definition of the differences between thesetwo. They have made some recommendations, Simone do you want to expand on yourrecommendations at this time? Ms. Erwin stated I just have one question on this one on agelimitations for manufactured homes, you’re talking about the structure itself and when it was titled,like putting a limitation. Ms. Caesar replied at the time that it is applying for a permit, correct andwe found in comparable cities that that was standard that they would have a five year agelimitation. Ms. Erwin replied five years. Ms. Caesar replied yes, it couldn’t be older than five yearsat the time of application. Ms. Erwin replied wow, ok. Mr. Breaud asked if there were anycomments. Mr. Jeff Donnes came forward and stated Simone could you go over the differences ofthe structures between manufactured, mobile and modular again. Ms. Caesar replied what wefound with the HUD definition and it goes into details in the document itself, I’m not sure of thepage but manufactured homes have to meet HUD standards, I think it is 1976 HUD standard and itcould be brought in on a chassis and it could sit on a chassis. Mobile homes do not meet HUDstandards, they are either older than those 1976 codes that were established or they are built tojust mobile home industry standards but not to the HUD standards and they come in on a chassisas well. The modular homes are built, they have to meet the same building code standards as sitebuilt homes, typically they are not on a chassis but I’ve heard here there was an incident whereone was on a chassis and as I mentioned before you could require design standards for those aswell. Ms. Erwin stated on page 25, it gives a great definition of each one is, even more detailwhich I though was really good. Ms. Caesar replied and there are pictures of each type. Mr.Donnes stated now Errol, presently all of them are not allowed to be brought into the City, correct.Mr. Price stated ok right now what I was doing was treating manufactured and mobile homes butthe Council cleared up for me, or the Councilman Chairman cleared it up saying what he had inmind when they passed this moratorium he was including all that came in on wheels, so there aremodular homes right now that are coming in on wheels so right now I’m treating the moratorium asanything that comes in on wheels or a chassis as restricted, in other words they have a moratoriumon it. Mr. Donnes replied so Simone what you are saying is if I am correct, that the modular homesshould be treated like any stick build home, whether they come in on a chassis or not. Ms. Caesarreplied because they still have to meet building code standards, so legally they can’t be restrictedout of residential areas. Mr. Donnes stated right now legally they can’t be restricted coming in orthe change is going to be, and I’m just trying to get clarification here. Mr. Breaud stated I think thisis the purpose right now is to get clarification because it is still a grey area and that is why themoratorium is in place and I think until these recommendations are agreed upon by the Councilthat is going to stay a moratorium I think. Mr. Kevin Belanger of South Central Planning cameforward and stated and I think that is why we identified this as misconception, the definitions arethe true definitions that were found by HUD, you cannot discriminate from a modular home whenthey are under scrutiny of the same IRC that every regular stick built home is being constructed to.So my suggestion, I know the Council has directed anything on wheels, technically every housebuilt comes in on wheels whether it has the concrete, the wood, where it is assembled is anotherissue, it if assembled on site generally that is stick built but if it assembled at a plant in NorthCarolina and it is assembled to the criteria or to the regulations instituted by the InternationalBuilding Codes you cannot discriminate from them being located in a regular stick build home.There have been challenges upon challenges of Councils all across America trying to keep themout as mobile homes or quote manufactured homes. There is a huge distinction and we cautionyou from continuing that practice.1188

2010 Thibodaux Zoning ReviewMr. Breaud stated Kevin in your recommendations, you’ve got some short term recommendationsand you’re given Option 1 and Option 2, are you all looking at input from the public and from thecommission on which direction to select Option 1 or 2 or just general comments and you are goingto put something together, when you come back on the next one you’re going to be giving optionsagain or they’re going to have… Mr. Belanger replied no, we’re going to give you arecommendation and you know the sentiment has to be what is the views of this planningcommission, do you want to be lenient or do you really want to shape this City into a zoningmecca, If you want to continue to fight the challenges 20 or 30 years from now, continue on thepath that you are on, you’ll continue to have them but if you want to delineate those, I mean thegentleman that spoke earlier about the issue on LA 1 I can’t agree with him more but that is whyyou have zoning reviews, that is why you flush out the needs of what the City is envisioning itself todevelop as and without that course of action and I would stand to say that if he, if that would havebeen done and it would have been changed to his preference he may not have had the challengeshe is facing today but the fact is you have a zoning plan and without it being changed you’re kind ofbound to be consistent and not arbitrary and capricious to those other neighbors adjacent to him,so. Mr. Breaud stated you know I think that has been the position of this Board, that we have notbeen arbitrary and capricious, we’ve been pretty much following you know and that is not to say Idon’t think this Board would like to see some leniency because we hear the sentiments of thegroups that come in and I think we are open to do it but I think we all kind of agree that if we’regoing to have zoning in the City of Thibodaux there has to be some guidelines to follow. We can’tjust give up on zoning after we’ve been having zoning for 30 years, people have inherited, youknow their whole inheritance and to build a facility, they know what zone they are in , they knowwhat they are living so I don’t think they want to give up all of the zones right now. I think there is alot of work like Ms. Cathy said that can be done, we can do this comprehensive study and makesome changes and those changes don’t have to be spot zoned where we are just changing one ortwo spots, we can change blocks. I’ll go back to Mr. Lafaso’s deal, I think that if he would havecame to this Board with a request to rezone all the batture like he said, of all the commercial areason LA 1 he may have gotten a different result but I think it came in with more of a spot zone type ofdeal and I think that was the denial and I see I woke him up again. Mr. Lafaso came forward andstated I don’t mean to disagree with you but I have again tons of records and we did ask, we askedfor a lot more, we weren’t asking for a specific property, we were asking for a ton of differentproperties to be rezoned because it was all a bunch of different zones all impaled in it, it might nothave been a perfect square, it might not have been a circle, it might of made kind of a little zig zaghere and there but it was more, a lot more than one piece of property. That being said that isagain, what five years ago, under the recommendations Number One, we kind of skipped ahead tothe zoning study and the comprehensive planned zoning update, page 66, number one, I agreewith that as well that we need to re-look at everything that there is of the City zoning from what anR-1 is to what a C-3 is, what it allows, what it doesn’t allow. There are a lot of things in there thatreally are pretty much outdated and I think all of that needs to be reviewed, she made the commentduring her presentation, that to me is a very big deal because you could get a good laugh atreading some of the stuff that is so outdated that doesn’t apply to either residential nor commercialbusiness today. I think the whole, the zoning as a whole needs to be reviewed, everything andagain as Mr. Harang pointed it out, it needs to be done now, business is suffering, the gentlemenmentioned about businesses leaving the City and it is pretty tough if we start loosing all of ourbusinesses within this City what are we going to be left with. Property taxes from residents helpfund some of these lights, they don’t fund it all, I know I got a pretty hefty tax bill that comes theend of the year that comes to the City and most commercial businesses owners as well have heftytax bills and that is money that comes in, that is funds that come in, they create jobs, they helpgenerate the City and we can’t run the businesses out of here. If we want to we’re going to loose alot more than just the businesses, we’re going to loose a lot more than that little bitty piece of realestate sitting at 711 East 1 st Street that is falling apart now because it is a blighted property, we’regoing to loose a lot more than that and that is what we have to consider in this zoning plan. It isnot just about that, again real estate is my business, commercial real estate is what I do andzoning filters into that 100% but there are a lot more issues that just that, I mean this gentlemansaid he was looking to do an ice cream shop, well what does that hurt, an ice cream shop. Iunderstand zones are there but if he is going to move up a zone and can’t do it and he is goingfrom one to the next, there’s issues all the way around not just in specific zones within specificareas but from the start to the end of that big thick zoning plan, thanks again. Mr. Breaud repliedok, are there any other comments on modular homes, Errol do any one of these options resolveyou issues on the moratorium. Mr. Price replied the definition does, that was always myinterpretation of the definition, it doesn’t make any difference how the modular home comes in, if itis a modular home, it meets all the inspection reports, it meets all of the building codes we’re notlooking at the cosmetics of it, the interpretation should be no issue. Mr. Kearns stated does thateffectively end that issue. Mr. Price stated the Council has to end the moratorium - that is up to theCouncil. Mr. Kearns replied but I mean this information, does… Mr. Price replied if the Councilaccepts the definition, keep in mind now, no matter how it looks, if it meets the definition of amodular home it can be put in any zone. Mr. Kearns replied right and that is kind of what I’masking the question, in lieu of the clarity of that definition does that put that other issue to rest. Mr.Price stated I really can’t answer that, I can’t say what the Council is thinking, as far as going intothis it was a lot of how it looked and not how it was built. Mr. Belanger came forward and statedMr. Chairman I think the real concern about people having modular homes being located in aresidential area is the way it looks similar to a manufactured home because you would think that1289

<strong>Thibodaux</strong> <strong>Zoning</strong> <strong>Review</strong> 2010the Chamber for 13 years and for all <strong>of</strong> those 13 years we continuously get feed back from ourmembers, from the business community at large about the restrictions that our current ordinanceplaces on businesses ability to conduct commerce. We do need a comprehensive study doneimmediately. I just recently graduated from the Community Development Institute in Conway,Arkansas at the University <strong>of</strong> <strong>Central</strong> Arkansas and one <strong>of</strong> the first things I learned in my very firstyear was that zoning needs to be consistently reviewed and that is why perhaps need to have apr<strong>of</strong>essional planner within the <strong>City</strong> <strong>of</strong> <strong>Thibodaux</strong> but at least every five years a review needs to bemade by every ten years we need to have a comprehensive review. It’s been thirty years, it is farpast time and I hope that you will consider on behalf <strong>of</strong> all the businesses and residents <strong>of</strong> the Cit<strong>of</strong> <strong>Thibodaux</strong> because as you know we had a committee about a year and a half ago that we diddrive bys around town looking at neighborhoods and we saw more than 100 examples <strong>of</strong> buildingsthat were once used as neighborhood grocery stores or shoe stores or whatever that were boardedup and abandoned. So not only was that property not in use for the purpose it was intended, theentire character <strong>of</strong> neighborhoods have changed as a result <strong>of</strong> boarding <strong>of</strong> buildings inneighborhoods so the Chamber would really like to see a comprehensive review conducted.Thank you. Mr. Breaud replied thank you. Would anybody else like to speak on this option? Ifnot, we’ll go to Option 2 which is mixed use zone which is pretty much in line with what we justtalked about zoning. You know mixed use, everybody is familiar with what we talked about, we’vegot some non-conforming and non-conforming uses and this would also play in the part with thezoning study and the comprehensive study. Would anybody like to make a comment on Option 2.Mr. Kearns stated I know that in the study that Cathy just referenced a lot <strong>of</strong> that was visible I can’tsay throughout entire <strong>Thibodaux</strong> but there is certain pockets <strong>of</strong> it that would definitely fall intomixed use. Mr. Breaud then asked if there were any other comments anybody would like to make.If not we’ll go to Option 3, it is really number 5, Manufactured, Mobile and Modular Homes, <strong>South</strong><strong>Central</strong> <strong>Planning</strong> has presented some short term recommendations and also some long termrecommendations and also tried to help out with the definition <strong>of</strong> the differences between thesetwo. They have made some recommendations, Simone do you want to expand on yourrecommendations at this time? Ms. Erwin stated I just have one question on this one on agelimitations for manufactured homes, you’re talking about the structure itself and when it was titled,like putting a limitation. Ms. Caesar replied at the time that it is applying for a permit, correct andwe found in comparable cities that that was standard that they would have a five year agelimitation. Ms. Erwin replied five years. Ms. Caesar replied yes, it couldn’t be older than five yearsat the time <strong>of</strong> application. Ms. Erwin replied wow, ok. Mr. Breaud asked if there were anycomments. Mr. Jeff Donnes came forward and stated Simone could you go over the differences <strong>of</strong>the structures between manufactured, mobile and modular again. Ms. Caesar replied what wefound with the HUD definition and it goes into details in the document itself, I’m not sure <strong>of</strong> thepage but manufactured homes have to meet HUD standards, I think it is 1976 HUD standard and itcould be brought in on a chassis and it could sit on a chassis. Mobile homes do not meet HUDstandards, they are either older than those 1976 codes that were established or they are built tojust mobile home industry standards but not to the HUD standards and they come in on a chassisas well. The modular homes are built, they have to meet the same building code standards as sitebuilt homes, typically they are not on a chassis but I’ve heard here there was an incident whereone was on a chassis and as I mentioned before you could require design standards for those aswell. Ms. Erwin stated on page 25, it gives a great definition <strong>of</strong> each one is, even more detailwhich I though was really good. Ms. Caesar replied and there are pictures <strong>of</strong> each type. Mr.Donnes stated now Errol, presently all <strong>of</strong> them are not allowed to be brought into the <strong>City</strong>, correct.Mr. Price stated ok right now what I was doing was treating manufactured and mobile homes butthe Council cleared up for me, or the Councilman Chairman cleared it up saying what he had inmind when they passed this moratorium he was including all that came in on wheels, so there aremodular homes right now that are coming in on wheels so right now I’m treating the moratorium asanything that comes in on wheels or a chassis as restricted, in other words they have a moratoriumon it. Mr. Donnes replied so Simone what you are saying is if I am correct, that the modular homesshould be treated like any stick build home, whether they come in on a chassis or not. Ms. Caesarreplied because they still have to meet building code standards, so legally they can’t be restrictedout <strong>of</strong> residential areas. Mr. Donnes stated right now legally they can’t be restricted coming in orthe change is going to be, and I’m just trying to get clarification here. Mr. Breaud stated I think thisis the purpose right now is to get clarification because it is still a grey area and that is why themoratorium is in place and I think until these recommendations are agreed upon by the Councilthat is going to stay a moratorium I think. Mr. Kevin Belanger <strong>of</strong> <strong>South</strong> <strong>Central</strong> <strong>Planning</strong> cameforward and stated and I think that is why we identified this as misconception, the definitions arethe true definitions that were found by HUD, you cannot discriminate from a modular home whenthey are under scrutiny <strong>of</strong> the same IRC that every regular stick built home is being constructed to.So my suggestion, I know the Council has directed anything on wheels, technically every housebuilt comes in on wheels whether it has the concrete, the wood, where it is assembled is anotherissue, it if assembled on site generally that is stick built but if it assembled at a plant in NorthCarolina and it is assembled to the criteria or to the regulations instituted by the InternationalBuilding Codes you cannot discriminate from them being located in a regular stick build home.There have been challenges upon challenges <strong>of</strong> Councils all across America trying to keep themout as mobile homes or quote manufactured homes. There is a huge distinction and we cautionyou from continuing that practice.1188

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