nation0428

26 THE NATION TUESDAY, APRIL 28, 2015
LAW COVER CONT’D
•Justice Ogunade (rtd)
‘Treat corrupt judges
like criminals’
•Continued from page 25
coming to look for you in the house.
Do you see that as good
or bad for a judge?
Well, it’s a mixed bag. There are a few lawyers
who have not been quite helpful. They
say all sorts of things to their clients. ‘We’re
friends, I know him, I’ll go and see him for
you’. He would come towards your chambers,
perhaps speak to your clerk, and he
would go back and say: ‘It’s all done; it’s finished.’
So the client believes when he gets to
the court, he’s going to get judgment, whether
rightly or wrongly. If he doesn’t get it, he
turns around and says: ‘That judge is corrupt;
he took money from me.’ Sometimes it’s better
for you to minimise your association with
people. It’s not too much of an advantage on
the other hand, because there are times you
would want someone to share a burden with,
not necessarily with your wife, but it’s an
immediate burden you feel you want to
share with someone. You could think X is
your friend, then you caution yourself. ‘Do I
know what advantage he will take of my
discussion with him?’ So, it’s challenging.
How about working conditions?
What is worse is the atmosphere under
which judges work. Lagos is an exception.
For a quite a while, the state has been taken
care of their judges. Wherever they have designated
as judges quarters are judges quarters.
It’s not the same in other states. If you
go to some states now, what used to be judges’
quarters had been sold or shared among other
people, except the judge had come from that
area and has his own house, which in itself is
not helpful. There is no longer that atmosphere
of serenity or privacy.
Did you have any such experience?
There was a time during my career on the
Bench when I had to live in hired accommodation.
That is bad enough, because everybody
you see is a potential litigant. What is
worse? At some point, my landlord and his
son had a controversial case in my court. I
didn’t know anything about it. I saw the papers
in the office, and thought: ‘This surname
sounds like that of my landlord, but it doesn’t
matter.’ You have taken oath to do justice to
all manner of people irrespective of their
relationship with you. A week after I started
the case, bingo came an anonymous letter
from someone saying: ‘Yes, you live in his
house. We know you have compromised
your position. You’ve taken a bribe of
N1million from him. But don’t forget, we
know your father and your mother. They are
good people. Don’t soil their name.’ You
could see the danger. Then in the town, it’s
all over the place. ‘What justice are you expecting?
They live together.’ The young man
whose case was before me lived directly opposite
my house. I didn’t know it until this
case started. When his father was going to
his house, he passed by mine. So you can
really see the danger to which you are exposed.
The judges before me in that jurisdiction
had been living in that house. When I
was transferred to the place, which happened
to be my hometown, the house was
in a shambles. Sometimes I’d receive anonymous
letters. Some would say: ‘We know
the way you take to Lagos; we’re coming to
double-cross you on the road.’ These are the
challenges you have in an effort to do your
work.
Are judges more at risk?
The way I see the position of a judge, particularly
a judge of first instance – magistrates
and judges – they are the ones who
will see the litigants take evidence, write
judgments, and be seen by the litigants everyday.
On appeal, the appellate justices look
at records. They don’t need to know anybody.
In fact it’s sufficient for them for the
lawyer to just come. But the judge is the one
seeing the litigants. They know you, they
can ask questions about you. So you can see
that it’s a sacred job, but at the same time
one that endangers your life. But quite a
number of us, because we believe in God
that you’re not going to do what is wrong,
so no matter what effort you make, one is
not afraid.
Was there a particular judgment
you regretted giving?
I cannot remember one. This is not really
self-praise. I am human and fallible, but I
have not deliberately gone out of my way
to give judgment in favour of anybody who
by my own judgment does not deserve it. I
had not.
Was there any particular
challenging case you handled?
This particular one was a chieftaincy dispute.
I did it as I thought would bring peace
to the town. Both sides appealed. Both sides
accused me, saying I did it to just push them
away. I gave judgment in 1997 but the case
is still lingering in court till today. There
was an appeal from 1997. It took 13 years
before judgment was delivered. After 13
years they went to the Supreme Court. It’s
been lying there for about three years. Unfortunately
I would go into the town; nobody
would come to me, but they would tell
my friends that I was the one who had prevented
them from having an oba in their
town. But as far as I’m concerned I’ve done
my best. I didn’t invite anybody to bring a
case to me. They brought it and I gave judgment
according to evidence. Having done that
I have no apologies.
What can be done to limit
interlocutory appeals?
By the various reforms being done, I think
they are trying to find a way of limiting interlocutory
appeals. But the instance I gave
you, it was not a problem of interlocutory
appeal. It’s the final judgment that they appealed
against. Then a lot of things came into
it. Again if I may suggest, serving judges are
made to do a lot of other things, which eat
into their judicial time. There may be a tribunal
of enquiry, but they won’t trust a retired
judge to handle it. They will ask a serving
judge to do it. Speaking for myself – myself
alone – I don’t see how we should inundate
the highest court of the land, the appellate
courts and the High Courts with election
matters. You can imagine how long election
matters take.
So who should handle such cases?
There are judges who are retired. You can
make enquiries about them. And you can use
those of them who will not compromise under
any ground. Why can’t you ask them to
handle some of these things instead of dragging
serving judges into it, and in the course
of it, they are maligned? There were a lot of
unproven cases of bribery after the 2007 and
2011 elections. There were even cases where
judges were retired because of allegations of
collecting bribe. If their excuse is that if a retired
judge collects bribe, he cannot be disciplined,
has bribery stopped being a criminal
offence? If a person has committed a criminal
offence, why can’t you prosecute him? If a
person who has a public duty to perform collects
bribe, and you’re able to prove it that he
collected bribe, why can’t you prosecute him?
Prosecute him and send him to jail! Even if
you say you cannot discipline him internally,
you let the law take its course.
Why does NJC not allow serving
judges accused of corruption to be
tried rather retiring them?
I don’t know. Speaking for myself, I
wouldn’t know why. Look at what happens
in other climes. You do anything that people
believe is scandalous, or is criminal, you get
arrested. Investigations will be done. If they
find that you’re culpable, you’re prosecuted.
If they’re able to prove their case, you go to
jail - just as it happens to politicians and the
rest of them. Nobody is above the law as far
as I know.
How would you rate the
standard of judgments today
compared to your time?
Without really intending to denigrate anybody,
standards generally are falling. The tool
of a judge are books. You have to give them
books. A judge is supposed to have a library.
Ask any judge to show you their library, even
library in the court and look at what is there.
I am saying this because I know. It has happened
to me. As a practitioner, anywhere I
had gone I was carrying my own books. I was
carrying my entire library with me everywhere
I went. The judiciary is badly funded.
Regular law reports that should be made
available to you are not there. I do believe
they’re improving on that now. I understand
that some allowances are being given for you
to buy books and things like that. I can say
that of Lagos. I’m not a judge in Lagos but I
see what they do.
How can the problem
be addressed?
It could be better. If you don’t equip a man,
how do you expect him to produce? You ask a
man to go and till a farm and you give him a
dead hoe, what do you expect him to produce?
Regular training is needed. There is the
National Judicial Institute where judges undergo
periodic training, but they should intensify
that. You live on computer now. You
should have a situation in which you equip
the courts, put in sufficient power, so that they
can use the electronic devices that you give
them. Before I left practice, I remember the
many efforts that were made to put electronics
in the courts. But the thing would not just
work. You could be making use of them and
suddenly you have a power surge and it wipes
away all your records. That’s worse than using
my long hand to write. I wrote in long
hand for 10 years. I do know of judge who
was advised by a doctor that if he’s not going
to lose the use of his hands, he should
retire. That is why occasionally when judges
retire, you will be wondering what happened
to them. Three or four years after retirement,
he’s a ghost of himself. A man will
be about 70 and he will appear like an 80-
year-old. And it’s because of the atmosphere
in which they had been working. All these
things could be better.
You mentioned that you were
invited to the bench. Is it not
better to ask people to apply
to be judges?
I tell you this. That is what makes it beautiful.
In England, nobody ever applies to be
a judge. You don’t apply to be a judge. The
Attorney-General would have done some
enquires. He would ask for some names to
be shortlisted. Many judges were practitioners.
If you were a treasury lawyer, you would
begin your career there and end it there. You
won’t assume that the next position is to be
a judge, unlike what you have here. People
from the department of justice of those days,
the moment you become a Director of Public
Prosecution (DPP), the next thing you’re
looking forward to is to be made a judge.
When you have looked at the quality of practice,
even in the official Bar, and they found
that one is a good material, there is nothing
wrong with an appointment being made that
way.
What do you think is
wrong with advertising it?
The moment you start asking people to apply,
you know what happens? There is going
to be lobbying. It’s going to be about
who knows who. I think it’s much more dignifying
to be invited. A man will appear in
court, and the Chief Judge will say: ‘When
you’re going please see me….I’m considering
including your name in the next list of
appointments. Go and think about it.’ Sometimes
they don’t have to ask you. If they find
that what you’re doing is good, they will
put your name and inform you that you have
been appointed a judge. If the environment
is good, nobody will be told that he is appointed
a judge and he will refuse it. But due
to poor earning, poor treatment, that is why
you find that if you offer people who are in
the inner bar (SANs) judgeship, they will
say: ‘What, I’m not going to touch it.’ But in
other areas, QCs (Queens Counsel) take such
offers with open arms.
Do you agree with suggestions
that the Chief Justice of Nigeria
(CJN) be appointed from outside
of the Supreme Court?
What is he coming to do there? Practicing
as a lawyer is not the same thing as having
gone through the hierarchy as a judge. An
advocate looks at his clients. Whether his
case is right or wrong, he takes it, although
ethically you’re expected to advise your client.
Many practitioners don’t look at the ethics
of the profession. If the money is right,
they will look for the law. An eminent jurist
once said: ‘When I’m in practice, I don’t care
whether I’m right or wrong. You pay me the
right money, and I’m going to find the law
to deal with it. When I became a judge, I
started looking for where I can do justice.’ If
there is a case before him in which he finds
that ordinarily, someone should be given
judgment, if he is able to find a law that will
support him, he will use it. That is not the
concern of a Senior Advocate. They (SANs)
are industrious; they are supposed to be hard
working. But for you to skip the High Court,
the Court of Appeal, and the Supreme Court
– I know they are agitating for it, but speaking
for myself, I pray that day will not come.
Those who had been there (Supreme Court),
do they lack knowledge? You only need to
be more selective in your appointment. Forget
about Federal Character. Look for the
best. This Federal Character is what is killing
all our institutions. Look for the best
and put the best there.
What about the argument that
it’s been done before?
I must admit we have had two instances.
One of them rose to become the CJN – that is
Justice Teslim Elias. But that is an exceptional
case. He was not practicing, and was more
•Continued on page 27