Stories of Cayuga - Seneca Country. - Digital Collections - University ...

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T-572-3 (Third of Four Interviews)
INFORMANT: KENNETH OYLER, CAYUGA
INTERVIEWED BY: J.W. TYNER
INTERVIEW DATE: APRIL 13, 1970
TRANSCRIBED BY: FLORA QUINATA
PROOFREAD BY: NONA KERR
GENERAL SUBJECT: STORIES OF CAYUGA - SENECA COUNTRY
i
TOPICS DISCUSSED:
. /—.
- BRIEF INTRODUCTION • '
CEMETERIES IN THE AREA
'
SENACA AND WYANDOTTE TRIBES
SENACA WOMEN ARE TRYING TO PRESERVE INFORMATION CONCERNING PLANTS
USED FgR MEDICINE AND FOOD
LOCATION OF TURKEY FORD COUNTRY - CAYUGA PEOPLE •
MR. MOUSEY SPLITLOG WAS A WYANDOTTE
MUDEATER FAMILY - MORE ABOUT CAYUGA TRIBE
WHY THE CAYUGA PEOPLE CAME TO THIS PART OF THE COUNTRY
CAYUGAS ARE TRYING TO PRESERVE THEIR LANGUAGE
HAVE TRIBAL MEETINGS IN- COMMUNITY HOUSE
KIND OF DRESS FOR CAYUGA PEOPLE
DANCERS LIKE FEM'HERS BUT DO USE PLASTIC
WENT TO CHILOCCO-BOARDING SCHOOL
STUDENTS WERE PUNISHED FOR RUNNING AWAY FROM SCHOOL
RECALLS MANY TEACHERS AND INCIDENTS AT SCHOOL
BACKGROUND OF INFORMANT:
Kenneth Oyler is a 65 year old Cayuga Indian of Commerce, Oklahomjj.
He was born and raised in this area. He went several years to Chilocco
and Wyandotte Schools.
NOTE: The other interviews on this tape are: Joseph Rogers, Delaware
Nola Jones Egnor, Cherokee
Martha Redman, Delaware
'- v
. I

x
. - % - T-572-3
his life.)
u
CEMETERIES IN THE AREA
(On Cowskin^a£rie, is it or--?)
Right on the banks of--
(Cowskin River)
Cowskin River. Stomp grounds on the east side. Grave yard is on the west
side of it.
(Is there anyone living clo&e by
there too?)
there that knows abovftiTthose folks in
'
Yeah. Oh, her name's Minnie Thompson. She
4 •
the graveyard on the northeast corner there.
lives in a house right up from
(All right. I'll see if I can find her. Sometime I might need some help,
you know, especially if they've got unmarked graves.)
Yeah, she knows Wolf graveyard. We got another one up Council House, they
call it.
(That's the two mains ones down in--for the Senecas down in there.* Cayugas.)
Yeah.
(Do you remember any pf the little family cemeteries when you're traveling
* •
around up in there? You know there's been, a family forgotten about. I like
to find those too.) . . . '
No, I don't. But she might tell you.
GENERAL SUBJECT: Stories of Ca'yuga - Senaca Country
" BRIEF INTRODUCTION -" "
(April 13, 1970. I'm visiting here with Kenneth Oyler, a 65-year old Cayuga
of Commerce, Ottawa county, Oklahoma. Mr. Oyler talks about the*, Cayuga-
Seneea country where he was born and raised and has spent nearly all of
-1-

i
-2- T-572-3
SENEGA AND WYANDOTTE TRIBES
(She's been there a long time. Who is the Seneca chief now?)
Vernon Crow.
- i
(Vernon Crow. He lives up at Wyandotte?)
Miami.
I
(Miami.)
I don't know just what his address is. You can.find it in the phone book.
(Yeah. And the Wyandottes. Do they still have a chief?)
Not that I know of.
v
(I've asked about it and no one seems to know. 'Course there's not many
of the Wyandotees left up in there.)
Let's see now. Seem like there was somebody. Kind of an
acting business
chief. Can't think of his name now. I think it's Guy Throm(?)
(Hew many Senecas are there left now?)
ill , let's see. Last time I heard on rolls was 1700.
(Well, you still have pretty sizeable.)-.
Yeah, that's a pretty good size! That's counting all the half-breeds,
quarter-breeds.
SENECA WOMEN ARE TRYING TO PRESERVE INFORMATION CONCERNING PLANTS USED
FOR MEDICINE AND FOOD
(I was reading in', the paper here while back. There was an article about
two of the Seneca women up in there. And how they were trying to preserve,
oh use of the medicinal plants. Different things that the old time Indians
used to use for Food, and to eat, and also things that they could--oh make
baskets and things out of.. And it was real interesting.)
Remember the names?
(Seem like one of 'ems last name was Eagle and another one her name was--
last name was Young. I don't remember their first names, though.)

3- _ , , T-572-3
Mamie Young.
(Yeah. Mamie Young was one of 'em.)
That's my cousin. "
(It is. I cut this article out so I could keep it. 'Cause it was real interesting,
the things that they were talking about. I think they said, the
photographer said they lived around Turkey Ford.)
Yeah.
LOCATION OF TURKEY FORD COUNTRY - GAYUGA ^PEOPLE
(Now that Turkey Ford country where*does it relate to the highway that goes
• up through there?) * . .
It's off of number 10. It's west of number 10 on the county line. Half a
mile west. Now that's the old original Turkey Ford. The new Turkey Ford
is east.
(Oh, it's east.)
Yeah, east. It's two miles east and a quarter north of number 10 on the
county line. Now that's what they call the new Turkey Ford.
(Well, was the old Turkey Ford was that a meeting place for the early'day
Cayugas and the Senecas or trading post, is it?) .
Ye,ah.
(Well, it's been interesting to find out what a,ll they had there been at
one time.)
Now the main trading post over at Cayuga.
'
(Yeah.) ' '
'
That's south of the stomp ground across the lake. Kinda southeast of it.
(Do you remember who run that trading post or did you ever hear who?)
No. Far back as I can remember is name was Von Hotson. And then there was
a Marlow took it over from him.

- -*- " . | T-572-3
MR, MOUSEY SPLITLOG WAS A WYANDOTTE . ' j '
(Yeah. Was that the same country that that man they QajLl Splitlog, was he
in that part .of the country?) •
He's a Wyandotte.
(He was Wyandotte.)
Yeah, but he was our chief one time. I don't know how he got to be chief.
(No, I don 't know either.)
Now his father, his boy, I mean, works there at Wyandotte Indian
school.
(Well.)
His name, they call him Mousey. Mousey Splitlog. He knows all about that.
I believe they're Wyandottes'. .
(Wyandotte.)
Yeah. * ' • .
MUDEATER FAMILY - MORE ABOUT CAYUGA TRIBE
(And there was several of that Mudeater family.)
The only I know was 'the old man. They call him Alfred Mudeater.
(Yeah. That would be in the same bunch. Do the Senecas still have their
summer meetings at the stomp grounds?)
Yeah. Yeah, they'ljL start having 'em there now. They was having 'em over
at the Council house durirfg the winter. They have it the first Tuesday
in every month, there's lot of different tribes. Some of 'em talk Indian.
You can see and hear where the different tribes can understand one another.
But my tribe I've never run across different tribe of Indian that talks
anything like my tribe.
• *
(Well.)
Cayuga language. . . .
(Yeah.)

* • *
c
-5- T-572-3
* {
\
I don't know why they keep calling us Senecas. We're not Senecas. We're
Cayugas.
(Cayugas.) ^ .
Yeah. . . -.-...•
(Where did they originally come from Mr. Oyler?)
,New- YorV.
x
.
(New York.) - ' -"- ;
Cnaada and New York. • • ,' ,"*
(Canada. Well, that would be one r of the reasons then that your language
is so different. Did you ever hear what part of Canada and New York that
your reservation or land was?)
Seem to me like fehey used to talk about Caldonia./
WHY THE CAYUGA PEOPLE COME TO THIS PART OF THE COUNTRY
(Caldonia? Were they moved down here into this country or did they come
down on their own?) ^ ''
Well, now, they way I understood, they came down on their own. And see, the
New York state paid 'em fifteen or eighteen hundred dollars a year. Now
that's as long as green grass grows and water flows.
(Yes.)
And they come down here, they didn't have no land or nothing. The Senecas
had that land. And they giye the Senecas right to their loan.-
(Well.)
Share it with 'em for the land. They just bought themselves in over here.
That's the way I understand it.
(Yeah. I'never did know what that arrangement was.)
I can't even understand Senecas.

. . ' -6- T-572-3
CAYUGAS'ARE TRYING ,T0 PRESERVE THEIR LANGUAGE
(Are the Cayugas preserving their language? A*"e there enough of them--)
Yeah, they're trying to do it now. They started it up here not long—about
six or eight months ago. Yeah, there's a lady down there that holds classes
once a week.
* (Good.) ~ " ' .
She's'been wanting me to come down there and learn the language. I used
to could talk it good when I was a kid. But I've forgotten it.
(Of the old settlers up ther§, old families still living in that Gayuga
area, who are some of the oldes-trones' still living? That would represent
their families?) • •
Well, I would say Minnie Thompson is' the oldest one that I know of. And
Mamie Long.
(Yeah. She's another old one too.) • '
Yeah, she's getting old. I've gotten her picture. And my sister Edna Harris,
her name is,.- She's in a rest home. She can't even
talk no more. That's
' about all the old ones, I know.
(No men that you can think of still living up in there of the older ones.)
Oliver Charloe (?) is about the oldest man I know of. He's not very old.
About 67. He lives out there by Dutch White.
HAVE TRIBAL MEETINGS IN COMMUNITY HOUSE
(They still have, I mean, they have lots of meetings there at the Community
House, at the Council House rather. Every now and then I read something
about they have a meeting up there.)
They have one
every month. Tribal meeting."
(Yeah, I think that's good that they-can get together, even if it's just
social work.)

-7- . T-572-3
• • - i '
.(Of course they have business work too, I know. More and more tribes are
doing that in this time.) .
My tribe was about the first one to adopt that there Wheeler-Howard ,bill.
They been following it ever since they adopted it.
(Well, there!s lot to that council work and being a council man too. Takes
a lot of time. {Sentence not clear.) I just wondered if you've ever heard.)
No, I never heard about it. ' *
KIND OF DRESS FOR CAYUGA PEOPLE
(The Cayugas did they go in for feathers and that kind?)
No. ' ' ' '
(Silverwork and that kind of--)
Fluffy dresses is all they wore. And blouses. ,
(Yeah. You know it's surprising in a way a lot of the Indian tribes did
not go for jewelry and feathers. In some of the old drawing and pictures
of the 5 all those Indians in .the north and northeast and very few "of 'em
had decorations on. Just plai'n buckskin and maybe cloth sometime.)
I understand the Sioux was about the first ones that started the feather
dance. , '
v *
(Yeah, seem like the eagle feathers and hawk feathers were the most important
used. But now they can't get eagle feathers they tell me.)
Yeah, it's against the law to kill an eagle.
('Course now on deer tails'. They still use lots of deer tails.)
They're
getting so they can make those head roaches out of plastic.
(Is that right?)
Yeah. They're pretty too.
DANCERS LIKE FEATHERS BUT DO USE PLASTIC
(Really getting modern. Yeah, I notice some of those dancers. They Look like,

- -8- .T-572-3
they don't look like deer tails. You know how they spread it and then fold
it back. They look like might be plastic. But they're real pretty.)'
Yeah, you know long time ago when the Indian used to use porcup'ine roaches.
(Well..) • -
I notice here lately. I ,been going to these war dances looking at their
costumes. I ask one boy, I said, "What's your Jroach made out of?" He said,
"Plastic." Boy it was really pretty. Had a lot of color to it, you know.
(Well, that would be pretty, wouldn't it.)
Yeah..
•
(Have a' costume made out of scissor t.ail feathers.)
Pretty delicate feather though.
(Oh yes,
that's dedicate. See, you only get about two or three tail feathers
out of each bird, don't you?)
You get four.
(Porur)
Four long ones.
(Yes sir, ,that would really be pretty.)
That's against the law to kill them too.
(Yeah, they're protected. That's .the state bird ncwtoo,isn't it?)
Yeah, Kinda got waves in it.
s
(Yeah.)
The rest of them are just straight. Straight feather.
(Yeah, I've never seen one.)
Third voice: I've seen lots of them. Boy! They sure pretty. Lots of 'em
up in the Wyandotte country.^
WENT TO CHILOCCO BOARDING SCHOOL
(—Wyandotte country. Well that wasn't very thickly settled in there, was it?)

-9- ' T-572-3
\
Yeah, that's whereN^ first went to school. In 1914.
—(1914. Were" there any\ther schools J.n that area then?)
• '
No. That was the s
/ \
only one around there. Grove was the closest place.
(Yeah.) \ '
\
See, we lived out about seven mi\es northeast of Grove.
(Yeah.)
Two miles west of Beaver.
(Well, was that Wyandotte Indian school going in those early days?)
Yeah, it was going. I didn't go there till ar^er--I was about twenty-two
or three years old. I went to Chilocco first, tome back and went to*Wyandotte.
(What year did you go to Chilocco?*) \
'25. (1925) - \
\
('25.) • \
\
(Words not clear)-- Albert King and lot of them Kings.
STUDENTS WERE PUNISHED FOR RUNNING AWAY FROM SCHOOL
(Boy there's lot of 'em run off in those early days from Chilocco,.)
Yeah. \. ' ' / \
(Well, I know how they felt though. Boy, I got homesick too. They had\a
price on their head.) ' \
Yeah, section, crew if they catch you, they get two dollars a head.
(Yeah. Just like hunting convicts. Any Indian, and if he went long ways
well they got more for bringing him back.)
, . r
Yeah. . . < •
(I know down around New Kirk and Ponca City those folks down there they
was always hunting for runaway Indian students. Sometimes they get twelve
or fifteen dollars for one of 'em. 1 They get more for the
girls they said.
I don't know how much. But it made
person feel like he was, I don't know
What.)

• ' -10- T-572-3
Like hunted coyote—.
(Yeah, hunted animal or something. You remember the old jail up there?
They used to bring 'em in and throw 'em in that old jail. It was more lil/e
a military prison than it was a school. Old uniforms, Craig rifles.)
Yeah, we used to have to drill with rifles.
RECALLS MANY TEACHERS AND INCIDENTS AT SCHOOL
(Lot of things to remember about that place. Never forget that hard tack.)
Think about it now. That was a good school.
(Yeah, when I think about it now, it was a good school. Lot of things we
didrf\t like.) . 4
i -A
Had a lpt of good land there.
(They had a lot of good land, boy. What was the name of that creek that
run down through
g
there? Do you remember?)
\
I forgot,the name.of that creek and I was always parching corn down there.
\
(Was that the one bhey call Waukarush.a?)
I don't remember what\they call it. What they did call it.
(Yeah, I remember they used to have--I know these Creek Indian boys they'd
stomp' dance every night. Parch corn. I remember Jesse James. He was always
leading a stomp dance. He was in my class.)
\ Yeah, I remember Jesse, (Word not clear)—up there the time he went.
' ' ' \ ' ^
(Yeah) . ' \
Paul Glazer(?), too. ( \
(Yeah, in later years he was a farm boy back then. Paul Glazer was the
athletic man.)
x
Yeah.
(And Densmore
v
was the poultry man. And McDonald he was the--No y McDowell
he was carpenter instructor.)
-\

-11- T-572-3
V
Vann was the band teacher.
(Vann was the band. I'm trying to remember the man--the one that had charge
of the stone mason. And I can't think who that was. He was a little, bitty
short fella.)
He was Sac and Fox.
(I believe he was. I may be wrong.)
v
Yeah, .there's some Franklins. Sac and Fox.
(Spae of those boys turned out to be real artist. Well, Acee Blue Eagle.
You know, we called him Elliot Mclntosh when he was up there. Now he's another
one
that turned out to be a good artist. In fact he was quite famous when
he died.)
Major up there's name was Lannahan.
(Yeah.)
I was in company A.
(Yeah.)
I was the smallest one in company A.
^^
(Well,let's see Nelson Rowe. He was kinda assistant boy's advisor. I don't
remember whether he was home two or home one. But he stayed there ti11 he,
retired though.) ' \
The farm boss was the—Later he become superintendent up there.
orrall.)
\
Corrall, yeah.
(That'\ who I was trying to think of. And that small boys'
matron, Rose
\
\
Daughtery v . What
\ Shawnee.
tribe was she?)
Shawnee.)
Ye^ah.

-12- - T-572-3
(Oh another man I was trying to think' of. Harry S. Keller. I thought that
was the meanest man in the world when I first went there. Do you remember
him? Big boys home one boys' advisor. Tall, slim, army man.)
Yeah. ' '
(He sure didn't have many friends there at one time. Then some of them big
old boys now they'd tangle with him. I can't remember which one it was.
Remember the jailer they had*. The one they call the "big man from the south
with gold in his mouth" Jackson Issacc, Choctaw from Mississippi. Big, tall
dark-complexion.) >
I remember that name, but I don't hardly remember him.
(He was the jailer there. I remember that.').
I remember lot of names, but don't remember how they looked, you know.
I learn 'em by roll call in the morning.
(Yeah.)
(End of Interview.)

April 13, 1970
; •
Index side B, recording time 22 min.j interview ti,me one hour. .
(first hoIf of tape.)
Informant: Kenneth Oyler, 65-year-old Cayuga,
Commerce, Ottawa County, Okla.
Subject:
Cayuga-Seneca country.
Of a^l Indian tribes in Oklahoma the Cayuga probably number fever than
any other, except for the Hea, Piankashaw and Kaskaskia. A few members
of these disappearing tribesmen, are still to oe found. Mr. Oyler is
very proud and lets 'it be known that 'he is a Cayuga. *ir. Oyler wss'
born and raised on the Cowskin iiver in northern Delaware County and
has spent all his life in northeast Oklahoma, and at this visit he toHs
some things about his people.
The history of t l .e Coyugi Indians begins in ^ro •r.rly recordings of the
native people of North Ame'rica. Their original home was in New York State,
and were of the Iroquoi Confederacy as one of vthsfive Nations. In the ^
1700s a large part of the tribe left New York antfwent into Canada, while
small bands went into Ohio to join wi'th o^her tribes of the Iroquoian
linguistic family, that became known as Senecas, while at> the same time
each tribe recognized its individual origin and identity. The prime
reason for'the several bands of Indians living together was for protection
and strength thru unity. - Early historical accounts tell that the Senecas
(which were made up of bands from the Erie, Conestoga, Oneida, Onondaga',
Mohawk, and Cayuga) came into Indian Territory as early as 1P32. Since
that time Cayugas have been living in northeast Oklahoma, and for tribal
•business natters and recognization their naie is incorporated now as the
Seneca-Cayuga Tribe.
Mr, Oyler's original home was in what is known as Bassett's Grove area
on the Cowskin .tiv4r in the extreme northern part of Delaware. Bassett's
Grove is the location/of their old meeting place, their church, stomp
grounds, ani the homes of many Cayug

Kenneth Oyler -2- . '**'-/
J
Host of the Seneca-Cavuga live, in Ottawa County and >'r. Oyler says that
there about l?00 enrolled under the arly day Indians of that
area was at Cayuga on the south ^ide of Cowskin aiver. At one time
the trading post at Cayuja was operated by Grover Splitlo^. The oost nc
longer exists, but the beautiful stone church Yuilt $^re stands cas a
memorial to that prominent "Indian-, "hen Mr. Oylor remembers the Cayu^a
trading "^ost it '-"as operated by r man name 1 - Hei^e, --nd l.^t«r y c man
na^ad Karlow.
Kr. OVIT tells that the Cayu^a lanjuca~e i? ?til] preserved ${i spoken
by several of his tribe. He .says the lan^u-^o is very easy ar compared
to many of the Indian dialects, and he ha?' n^ver iieard jnot'ror lanjT^e
th"t sounds li'^ the Cayu~a. - ^
He tells that tro. Cnyuav.s to his knowledge n r ve :\(*v-?r ~one i*a fc much
color, jovelry and feathers in^th-ir dr-isc. 2ec i :\:J quill work h^a -con
about the limit ^? any adornment tc their mt-ive drps?, ho::e'-rr, buckskin
has b-°en used to a tjreit oxt^at. The li r its th #i t thr vhitcman rill jo to
t\°de the Indian out of liii' money knows no -?"A. r .n; no^; Mr. Qyler s iys that
the Indians are sold elastic deer tails, dyed t M r'