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91 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 conceptual framework are those anonymized? DR. OLD: Those are anonymized. DR. HOLTZMAN: Okay. DR. OLD: They are not anonymous. They are anonymized. DR. HOLTZMAN: All right. So even though it is in principle possible to go back? DR. OLD: It has to do with your discussion already this morning of how high is that wall. DR. HOLTZMAN: Okay. So -- DR. OLD: Yes. DR. HOLTZMAN: -- I think that is important because we are not being clear then in our distinctions, right, because you now go to where you took the distinctions, right, which are from the American society, right -- DR. OLD: Right. DR. HOLTZMAN: It is on page 13, right. Anonymized were initially identified but had been irreversibly stripped of all identifiers or impossible to link to their source versus identifiable which is what we call research conducted anonymously or in an encrypted fashion. All right. DR. OLD: But I do believe that this committee
92 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 assumed anonymized was as it was being passed on, that it was not -- the stored samples were not anonymized, the new study was anonymized. MR. CAPRON: But they would have to encrypt it. DR. OLD: It is encrypted and there are -- we have a variety of ways where you pass it through several number codes and you end up with one and then you throw away the thing in the middle and then you cannot go back because you have got three layers of number codes to get through. DR. COX: Steve, the distinction with respect to our subcommittee is that these were anonymized but the researcher cannot go back, okay, as opposed to encrypted, okay, where the research, okay, does not know. DR. OLD: Right. DR. COX: But it is possible to go back. DR. EMANUEL: No, no. DR. OLD: And I would say encrypted is identifiable. DR. EMANUEL: That is not true, David. It depends -- critically -- this is an encrypted sample. The question is what kind of encryption you have. DR. COX: It is an encryption so that the researcher cannot go back and no one can go back.
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conceptual framework are those anonymized?<br />
DR. OLD: Those are anonymized.<br />
DR. HOLTZMAN: Okay.<br />
DR. OLD: They are not anonymous. They are<br />
anonymized.<br />
DR. HOLTZMAN: All right. So even though it is<br />
<strong>in</strong> pr<strong>in</strong>ciple possible to go back?<br />
DR. OLD: It has to do with your discussion<br />
already this morn<strong>in</strong>g of how high is that wall.<br />
DR. HOLTZMAN: Okay. So --<br />
DR. OLD: Yes.<br />
DR. HOLTZMAN: -- I th<strong>in</strong>k that is important<br />
because we are not be<strong>in</strong>g clear then <strong>in</strong> our dist<strong>in</strong>ctions,<br />
right, because you now go to where you took the<br />
dist<strong>in</strong>ctions, right, which are from the American society,<br />
right --<br />
DR. OLD: Right.<br />
DR. HOLTZMAN: It is on page 13, right.<br />
Anonymized were <strong>in</strong>itially identified but had been<br />
irreversibly stripped of all identifiers or impossible to<br />
l<strong>in</strong>k to their source versus identifiable which is what we<br />
call research conducted anonymously or <strong>in</strong> an encrypted<br />
fashion. All right.<br />
DR. OLD: But I do believe that this committee
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