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DR. HOLTZMAN: Just to maybe lay out a little<br />

of the th<strong>in</strong>k<strong>in</strong>g here. This is not necessarily the<br />

subcommittee's th<strong>in</strong>k<strong>in</strong>g. I th<strong>in</strong>k it is general th<strong>in</strong>k<strong>in</strong>g<br />

about <strong>in</strong>formed consent. Clearly if you can have it<br />

reasonably happen you want to get it.<br />

Then the question is why is <strong>in</strong>formed consent<br />

important? There may be two elements to that.<br />

Simplistically the autonomy right of the <strong>in</strong>dividual as well<br />

as the protection and the potential harms to the <strong>in</strong>dividual<br />

and so then when you look at the extant samples, all right,<br />

you then ask the question pragmatically the value to<br />

society of do<strong>in</strong>g research versus the cost and difficulty of<br />

go<strong>in</strong>g back and gett<strong>in</strong>g the consent and that if you protect<br />

them aga<strong>in</strong>st harm by anonymization or conduct<strong>in</strong>g the study<br />

<strong>in</strong> an anonymous manner, all right, that that protection<br />

aga<strong>in</strong>st harm plus the value to society outweighs the<br />

autonomy <strong>in</strong>terest. I mean, bottom l<strong>in</strong>e I th<strong>in</strong>k that is the<br />

argument.<br />

DR. DUMAS: I th<strong>in</strong>k you are gett<strong>in</strong>g to the<br />

whole issue of who makes that decision.<br />

DR. HOLTZMAN: All right.<br />

DR. MURRAY: Dr. Susan Old has jo<strong>in</strong>ed us.<br />

Thank you for your patience and thank you very<br />

much for tak<strong>in</strong>g some time this morn<strong>in</strong>g to come speak with

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