Entire Transcript in Adobe Acrobat Format - National Reference ...
Entire Transcript in Adobe Acrobat Format - National Reference ... Entire Transcript in Adobe Acrobat Format - National Reference ...
253 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 separately and call them by some more descriptive term. I think we are going to have this problem as long as we are lumping together disparate groups of people and that is where the problem lies. DR. CHILDRESS: But we are interested, in part, in what they share and it is how we described what level used for what they share that becomes critical for the report. DR. SCOTT-JAMES: But what they share is not really always shared because some of the persons covered under this chapter would be incapacitated almost all the time. Some others would be rarely incapacitated. We even put children in here and we tried to fix that a bit by referring to younger children but we even put children in here who are developmentally appropriate in their decision making. So it is just -- MR. CAPRON: That is one of the reasons we dropped impairment. DR. SCOTT-JONES: Right. DR. CHILDRESS: Zeke -- oh, sorry, I missed the comment. MR. CAPRON: Well, that is one of the reasons we dropped impairment because a child of seven who does not have an adult's decision making capacity is not impaired,
254 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 it is a normal child, but they do not have full decision making capacity. In some ways the question that Laurie was raising before about people who are born with disorders which make them always unable to participate in decisions are not even covered by this report as it is now entitled. They are not of questionable decision making capacity. They lack decision making capacity. I mean one escape is to say this report narrowly addresses the category of people who go in and out of decision making capacity and where you have to make certain in any circumstance where they are when you are engaging them in the consent process. DR. CHILDRESS: Zeke has a creative solution. DR. EMANUEL: No, no, no. I am struck as I was struck actually this morning by the fact that we seem to all be in the grip of a different kind of picture as to who these -- fit into each of these boxes. It may be that what is in your mind, Alex, is a certain kind of experiment that really stuck out -- stuck with you and I may have a different kind of experiment as the sort of paradigm that I am thinking these rules ought to apply to. Part of the reasons we are at loggerheads is because we have not made these distinctions.
- Page 205 and 206: 202 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 207 and 208: 204 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 209 and 210: 206 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 211 and 212: 208 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 213 and 214: 210 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 215 and 216: 212 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 217 and 218: 214 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 219 and 220: 216 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 221 and 222: 218 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 223 and 224: 220 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 225 and 226: 222 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 227 and 228: 224 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 229 and 230: 226 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 231 and 232: 228 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 233 and 234: 230 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 235 and 236: 232 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 237 and 238: 234 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 239 and 240: 236 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 241 and 242: 238 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 243 and 244: 240 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 245 and 246: 242 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 247 and 248: 244 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 249 and 250: 246 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 251 and 252: 248 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 253 and 254: 250 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 255: 252 1 creativity. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
- Page 259 and 260: 256 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 261 and 262: 258 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 263 and 264: 260 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 265 and 266: 262 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 267 and 268: 264 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 269 and 270: 266 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 271 and 272: 268 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 273 and 274: 270 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 275 and 276: 272 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 277 and 278: 274 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 279 and 280: 276 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 281 and 282: 278 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 283 and 284: 1 280
- Page 285 and 286: 282 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 287 and 288: 284 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 289 and 290: 286 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 291 and 292: 288 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 293 and 294: 290 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 295 and 296: 292 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 297 and 298: 294 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 299 and 300: 296 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 301 and 302: 298 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 303 and 304: 300 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
- Page 305 and 306: 302 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1
254<br />
1<br />
2<br />
3<br />
4<br />
5<br />
6<br />
7<br />
8<br />
9<br />
10<br />
11<br />
12<br />
13<br />
14<br />
15<br />
16<br />
17<br />
18<br />
19<br />
20<br />
21<br />
22<br />
23<br />
24<br />
it is a normal child, but they do not have full decision<br />
mak<strong>in</strong>g capacity.<br />
In some ways the question that Laurie was<br />
rais<strong>in</strong>g before about people who are born with disorders<br />
which make them always unable to participate <strong>in</strong> decisions<br />
are not even covered by this report as it is now entitled.<br />
They are not of questionable decision mak<strong>in</strong>g capacity.<br />
They lack decision mak<strong>in</strong>g capacity.<br />
I mean one escape is to say this report<br />
narrowly addresses the category of people who go <strong>in</strong> and out<br />
of decision mak<strong>in</strong>g capacity and where you have to make<br />
certa<strong>in</strong> <strong>in</strong> any circumstance where they are when you are<br />
engag<strong>in</strong>g them <strong>in</strong> the consent process.<br />
DR. CHILDRESS: Zeke has a creative solution.<br />
DR. EMANUEL: No, no, no. I am struck as I was<br />
struck actually this morn<strong>in</strong>g by the fact that we seem to<br />
all be <strong>in</strong> the grip of a different k<strong>in</strong>d of picture as to who<br />
these -- fit <strong>in</strong>to each of these boxes.<br />
It may be that what is <strong>in</strong> your m<strong>in</strong>d, Alex, is a<br />
certa<strong>in</strong> k<strong>in</strong>d of experiment that really stuck out -- stuck<br />
with you and I may have a different k<strong>in</strong>d of experiment as<br />
the sort of paradigm that I am th<strong>in</strong>k<strong>in</strong>g these rules ought<br />
to apply to. Part of the reasons we are at loggerheads is<br />
because we have not made these dist<strong>in</strong>ctions.