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99 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 the game here. DR. MURRAY: Well, there are actually two -- at least two different meetings. I think Zeke did a nice job but let me reemphasize them. One is how much information is stripped from the sample as it is sent forward to the researcher? Given what we know about the set of samples that are out there, given publicly or otherwise available to researchers databases or sources of information, can the researcher get back and learn the identity of the individual? That is one important meaning and I think our -- that is key for us. Samples used in an anonymous manner in our -- my understanding of it at least would say that if, in fact, the researcher gets sent the tissue with whatever accompanying information cannot reasonably discover the identity of the individual, that for me would be in an anonymous manner. A second issue is does anyone retain a kind of encryption key that would enable them to either send information further forward and/or be used to discover who the sample is linked to. That is a second question so it can be -- you can have research -- you can have samples used in an anonymous manner by the researcher with or without some existing key and there might be -- there would
100 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 be reasons for and against having such a key in different circumstances. DR. COX: That is your formulation. That was not the formulation I was just making. The formulation I was just making was viewed in a different way, which is look at the amount of information that flows through. If at the end of the day that you are asking for all the information besides the person's name and social security number to be updated to you on a regular basis, okay, even though you are saying that it is anonymous I am questioning, okay, what that relationship is that you are really having with the individual patient. DR. MURRAY: That is the first thing. DR. EMANUEL: Well, let's just think through something like Framingham or the Nurse's Health Study. You get some physical exams on an every two year basis I think on the Nurse's Health Study. That information minus who it is then goes through a machine to encrypt it and is attached to a number. That does not require the researcher having any relationship. It does require an infrastructure of the researcher sending out the surveys, data inputting it, but the researcher who looks at the data at the other end, right, has no idea. Now how difficult or whether it is literally
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be reasons for and aga<strong>in</strong>st hav<strong>in</strong>g such a key <strong>in</strong> different<br />
circumstances.<br />
DR. COX: That is your formulation. That was<br />
not the formulation I was just mak<strong>in</strong>g. The formulation I<br />
was just mak<strong>in</strong>g was viewed <strong>in</strong> a different way, which is<br />
look at the amount of <strong>in</strong>formation that flows through. If<br />
at the end of the day that you are ask<strong>in</strong>g for all the<br />
<strong>in</strong>formation besides the person's name and social security<br />
number to be updated to you on a regular basis, okay, even<br />
though you are say<strong>in</strong>g that it is anonymous I am<br />
question<strong>in</strong>g, okay, what that relationship is that you are<br />
really hav<strong>in</strong>g with the <strong>in</strong>dividual patient.<br />
DR. MURRAY: That is the first th<strong>in</strong>g.<br />
DR. EMANUEL: Well, let's just th<strong>in</strong>k through<br />
someth<strong>in</strong>g like Fram<strong>in</strong>gham or the Nurse's Health Study. You<br />
get some physical exams on an every two year basis I th<strong>in</strong>k<br />
on the Nurse's Health Study. That <strong>in</strong>formation m<strong>in</strong>us who it<br />
is then goes through a mach<strong>in</strong>e to encrypt it and is<br />
attached to a number. That does not require the researcher<br />
hav<strong>in</strong>g any relationship. It does require an <strong>in</strong>frastructure<br />
of the researcher send<strong>in</strong>g out the surveys, data <strong>in</strong>putt<strong>in</strong>g<br />
it, but the researcher who looks at the data at the other<br />
end, right, has no idea.<br />
Now how difficult or whether it is literally