Expanding the Public Sphere through Computer ... - ResearchGate
Expanding the Public Sphere through Computer ... - ResearchGate Expanding the Public Sphere through Computer ... - ResearchGate
APPENDIX A. TALK.ABORTION: AUGUST 9, 1994 136 In article 35651@rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu, rohuck@rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu (HUCK ROBERT O) writes: >Bruce Cameron (bmc@mayo.edu) wrote: >: In article 78948@rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu, rohuck@rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu >: (HUCK ROBERT O) writes: > >: >1) It is impossible for one person to have two blood types. When a woman >: >is pregnant, she has her blood type and the unborn child has her or his >: >blood type. In the case of fraternal twins, there can be three different >: >blood types. >: > > >: There may only be one blood type. It is possible for a mother and >: child to share the same blood type. Often family members are the >: best donors for each other, as the possiblity for a match is higher >: than that between complete strangers. > >But there are often two. I realize a parent and child can have the same >blood type. My mother and I are both O+. My twin brother is O-. He was >O- before he was born. Your point is true, but irrelevant. My point >was that a pregnant woman and her child *can* have two different blood >types. I did not say they *always will* have two different blood types. >Please read exactly what I say. > You are trying to find evidence that there are two individuals present. If there is only one blood type present, how do you know that there are two individuals? >: >2) It is impossible for one person to have 46 pairs of chromosones. When >: >a woman is pregnant, she has the 23 pairs of chromosones she received >: >from her parents at conception and the unborn child has his or her 23 >: >pairs (24 in the case of children with Down’s Syndrome) of >: >chromosones. >: > > >: This only says that members of a species have a fixed number of chromosomes. > >Exactly! Human beings have 23 pairs of chromosones, not 46. Once again, >please read what I said. I said it is impossible for one person to have >46 pairs of chromosones. > >: It says nothing about the uniqueness of the chromosomes of two individuals >: nor does it say that chromosome number alone is the qualification >: for inclusion >: as a member of a specific species. Again, the question comes up: given two >: sets of chromosomes, how different do they have to be before you say that >: they are from two different individuals? > >Actually they don’t have to be different at all. Identical twins share >the same chromosones, but they are two different individuals. In this >case, difference is unimportant. The only important issue is number. > >: BTW the 23 chromosomes you have in the mitochondria in your cells is >: identical (barring radiation or chemically induced mutations) to that >: of your mother. >
APPENDIX A. TALK.ABORTION: AUGUST 9, 1994 137 >I know. Again this is true, but irrelevant. Humans have 23 *pairs* of >chromosones. 23 chromsones come from the mother. Where do you think the >other 23 come from? That’s right, the father. > There are 23 pairs of chromosomes in the mitochondria (forgive my poor phrasing above). All 23 pairs are indentical to those of the mother. Mitochondrial DNA is frequently used as a means of tracking environmentally induced mutations since it is possible to compare it to an identical source that can be kept in a different environment. If I understand you correctly, any creature with 23 pairs of chromosomes (46 total chromosomes). Do you consider any of the following numbers to be human also: 47 chromosomes 45 chromosomes 21 pairs 22 pairs 24 pairs It seems to me that simply relying on a count is a poor way to seperate things esp. when the deviation from normal is great enough to include the mean from other groups. >: >3) It is impossible for one person to have two hearts beating at different >: >rates. >: > > >: It is also impossible for a person to survive for long with a resting heart >: rate of 160-200 (typical fetal heart rate). It is impossible for a person >: to survive with the uncoordinated contractions of the fetal heart. It is >: impossible for a person to survive should the shunts present in the >: fetal circulatory system were to be present in the adult (there are shunts >: between the left and right sides of the fetal heart, between the pulomary >: artery and pulmonry vein [reroutine most of the blood away from the lungs). > >I’m curious, when do these shunts disappear? Are they present for the >entire duration of the pregnancy or do they disappear after birth? > The shunts close after delivery, then fuse shut (barring abnormalities) over the next few days. It is thought that the closure of the shunts is due to a drop in blood pressure in the umbilicus. >: >4) It is impossible for one person to have two different sets of finger- >: >prints. >: > >: >5) It is impossible for one person to have two brains. >: > >: >6) It is impossible for one person to have four eyes (six if the woman >: >is pregnant with twins, eight with triplets, and so on). >: > > >: 4, 5, and 6 are not present through out gestation. Does this mean >: that the fetus must develop into a person? >
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APPENDIX A. TALK.ABORTION: AUGUST 9, 1994 137<br />
>I know. Again this is true, but irrelevant. Humans have 23 *pairs* of<br />
>chromosones. 23 chromsones come from <strong>the</strong> mo<strong>the</strong>r. Where do you think <strong>the</strong><br />
>o<strong>the</strong>r 23 come from? That’s right, <strong>the</strong> fa<strong>the</strong>r.<br />
><br />
There are 23 pairs of chromosomes in <strong>the</strong> mitochondria (forgive my poor<br />
phrasing above). All 23 pairs are indentical to those of <strong>the</strong> mo<strong>the</strong>r.<br />
Mitochondrial DNA is frequently used as a means of tracking environmentally<br />
induced mutations since it is possible to compare it to an identical<br />
source that can be kept in a different environment.<br />
If I understand you correctly, any creature with 23 pairs of chromosomes<br />
(46 total chromosomes). Do you consider any of <strong>the</strong> following numbers to be<br />
human also:<br />
47 chromosomes<br />
45 chromosomes<br />
21 pairs<br />
22 pairs<br />
24 pairs<br />
It seems to me that simply relying on a count is a poor way to seperate<br />
things esp. when <strong>the</strong> deviation from normal is great enough to include<br />
<strong>the</strong> mean from o<strong>the</strong>r groups.<br />
>: >3) It is impossible for one person to have two hearts beating at different<br />
>: >rates.<br />
>: ><br />
><br />
>: It is also impossible for a person to survive for long with a resting heart<br />
>: rate of 160-200 (typical fetal heart rate). It is impossible for a person<br />
>: to survive with <strong>the</strong> uncoordinated contractions of <strong>the</strong> fetal heart. It is<br />
>: impossible for a person to survive should <strong>the</strong> shunts present in <strong>the</strong><br />
>: fetal circulatory system were to be present in <strong>the</strong> adult (<strong>the</strong>re are shunts<br />
>: between <strong>the</strong> left and right sides of <strong>the</strong> fetal heart, between <strong>the</strong> pulomary<br />
>: artery and pulmonry vein [reroutine most of <strong>the</strong> blood away from <strong>the</strong> lungs).<br />
><br />
>I’m curious, when do <strong>the</strong>se shunts disappear? Are <strong>the</strong>y present for <strong>the</strong><br />
>entire duration of <strong>the</strong> pregnancy or do <strong>the</strong>y disappear after birth?<br />
><br />
The shunts close after delivery, <strong>the</strong>n fuse shut (barring abnormalities)<br />
over <strong>the</strong> next few days. It is thought that <strong>the</strong> closure of <strong>the</strong> shunts<br />
is due to a drop in blood pressure in <strong>the</strong> umbilicus.<br />
>: >4) It is impossible for one person to have two different sets of finger-<br />
>: >prints.<br />
>: ><br />
>: >5) It is impossible for one person to have two brains.<br />
>: ><br />
>: >6) It is impossible for one person to have four eyes (six if <strong>the</strong> woman<br />
>: >is pregnant with twins, eight with triplets, and so on).<br />
>: ><br />
><br />
>: 4, 5, and 6 are not present <strong>through</strong> out gestation. Does this mean<br />
>: that <strong>the</strong> fetus must develop into a person?<br />
>
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