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275WH Drugs 6 JUNE 2013 Drugs 276WH [Dr Julian Huppert] brought in a couple of years ago to allow the temporary ban on drugs while we are trying to find all the evidence. The Government have made it an offence to supply large amounts of such drugs, but not an offence to possess small amounts. All I am suggesting is that we apply the same principle to other drugs, because it has been found to work in Portugal, to be publicly accepted and to have good outcomes. I am keen on an evidence base. There is a fantastic piece of evidence from the Czech Republic. The Czech Republic used to have no criminal sanction on possession of small amounts, but in 2001 it changed the law and criminalised possession, and there was a big debate. The sort of arguments were made that might be expected, with people saying that if possession were criminalised fewer people would use drugs, people would be healthier and better, and there would be less drug use—all of that sort of thing. The Government there did something that Governments rarely do and set out their hypotheses, worked out how to measure and test them, and published a proper impact analysis, internationally verified, of their predictions. They found that they did not get what they expected from criminalising possession. The implementation of a penalty for possession of illicit drugs for personal use did not meet any of the tested objectives, was loss-making from an economic point of view and brought about avoidable social costs. It was found that criminalisation made things worse. That suggests that decriminalisation—not an absolute parallel, but as close as one can get—would not be likely to make things bad. The summary of results in the Czech impact analysis states: “from the perspective of social costs, enforcement of penalizing of possession of illicit drugs for personal use is disadvantageous”. The hypothesis that availability of illicit drugs would decrease was rejected, as was the one suggesting that the number of illicit drug users would decrease; and rather than the number of new cases of illicit drug use decreasing after criminalisation, incidence in the general population increased. Rather than finding no negative health indicators relating to illicit drug use, there were more fatal overdoses from illicit drugs after criminalisation, and the hypothesis that social costs would not increase was rejected. Having done this study, the Czech Republic went back and decriminalised possession, because it found that it was better for its society and was cheaper and more effective at dealing with drugs. We can do this in this country. Of course, no country is a perfect model, but we know that in Portugal decriminalisation of possession of small amounts works and has societal benefits and is well accepted, and that in the Czech Republic it is better to decriminalise possession than not to. We can try that here. We would need a royal commission to work out the exact details of how to do the work here. We can make a difference. Although I would love to talk about other domestic issues, I do not have time to go through them in perfect detail. The focus on treatment is right. I am alarmed that there is a push to suggest that abstinence is the only form of treatment that really counts. Where people are having treatment, we want to move them from high usage to lower usage. For some people that will mean abstinence and for others it will mean maintenance. We want to offer them the choice of whatever will get them to the lowest level we can. The Chair of our Committee was right in what he said about prisons and the need to get smaller providers involved in drugs treatment. I want to pick up on an issue, drug-driving, that plays into Home Office discussions. It is right to have a criminal offence for drug-driving, just as there is for drink-driving, and the threshold for harm should be the same. We allow drivers to drink up to 0.08 mg per ml, and we should allow the same equivalent harm from drug use. For someone whose drug use has taken them to that risk level, that should be the key test. We make that recommendation in our report in paragraph 2: “the equivalent effect on safety as the legal alcohol limit, currently 0.08 mg/ml.” We must ensure that we get health further involved. Let me finish by mentioning supply, because drugs are not just a UK problem but a huge international problem. Although we have had 50 years of criminalisation, illicit drugs are now the third most valuable industry in the world, after food and oil. That is incredibly damaging. We tracked the routes for cocaine, as our Committee Chair said. We went to Colombia to see where it was grown; to Florida, where we saw how the US military tried to combat it; and we saw the customs’ efforts to try to stop it flooding into the US. I spoke to parliamentarians from west Africa, looking at that stage of the process. In Portugal, cocaine is coming into Europe. The message at every stage was clear: supply cannot be stopped. It can be squeezed in various ways. For example, massive military efforts can be made in Colombia to reduce the amount of coca plantation, but it moves to a neighbouring country. Interdiction can used and the navy can block one side of central America, but it goes to the other side or takes an air route. It was astonishing to see the mini-submarines now being created by the Colombian drugs lords, which cost about $1 million and have a range that allows them to reach London. The cocaine loaded on to those can be sold for about $500,000. The US navy was clear: with the best will in the world, it cannot spot a small submarine somewhere in the Atlantic. Supply cannot be controlled. Keith Vaz: It is more astonishing that it was cost-effective for the drugs barons to sink the submarine when it arrived in Africa, because their profits were so enormous that they could just buy another one. Dr Huppert: The right hon. Gentleman is right. I was flabbergasted to find out just how much money was involved. I was even more surprised to discover that, in Portugal, where there has been a problem for a while with people flying drugs in from west Africa—they have tried to combat that—drugs are now being flown back from Portugal into west Africa. On asking, we were told, “We think it is because the drugs are returned to the sender if they are not of good enough quality.” If people think it is safe enough to transfer drugs internationally that they can have a returns policy, we are nowhere near stopping supply, and in the process we are losing control of country after country to the drugs cartels. The profits are huge, and criminal gangs and cartels across the world thrive on them. The banks have a huge part to play, as the right hon. Gentleman was

277WH Drugs 6 JUNE 2013 Drugs 278WH right to highlight. This is wrecking many countries. We did not look at the situation with heroin and marijuana, but the same damaging effects apply in different countries. President Santos has been taking a strong stance, saying that his country will try to control this problem; but we cannot expect countries to be torn apart for ever in an effort to control a problem that cannot be controlled. I am delighted that, in 2016, the United Nations General Assembly will have a special session to look again at its international drugs policy. I hope that, whatever flavour of Government we have then, we will be working with people like President Santos and with the reformers to try to solve this global problem. We have worked for 40 years with a criminalisation process that has not delivered what we said it should deliver in 1971. It has not worked for the users of drugs, for society at large or for the Treasury. There are much better ways. 2.20 pm Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab): I welcome you to the Chair, Mr Bayley. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship. I apologise, but I have a very sore throat, so my voice is not quite as it should be. It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Cambridge (Dr Huppert). I will certainly look to his pronouncements in future for an indication of Liberal Democrat policy. I start by recognising that the report is an important piece of work. I pay tribute to the leadership of the Select Committee’s Chair, my right hon. Friend the Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz). I also pay tribute to all the members of the Committee who contributed to the report, which draws upon the huge experience of different people and organisations. As we have heard, many different countries have been considered. I had an opportunity to listen to some of the witness sessions. I heard Sir Richard Branson and Russell Brand give evidence, and I attended the Committee’s one-day conference in Parliament. I think it was very useful to invite the general public in to hear the deliberations of that Committee. I visited Colombia after the Select Committee’s visit, and I know from my conversations with the Serious Organised Crime Agency officers based in Colombia that they were delighted to be able to explain the international role they play in addressing the drugs problem. They do some very important work, which I am pleased has been recognised in the report. The report is wide-ranging and contains many recommendations. Because of the time, I will go through some of the recommendations that I believe are key. I look to the Minister to answer some of my questions on the approach the Government will take to addressing the Committee’s recommendations. I start with the recommendation that the lead for drugs policy should be shared between the Home Office and the Department of Health, with a designated point person co-ordinating policy. That might seem an unlikely place to start, but I think it is absolutely essential that drugs policy is co-ordinated across Departments. I will address that theme in the points I raise this afternoon. The Opposition recognise the importance of a co-ordinated approach, and it is certainly important to recognise that there has been a high level of cross-departmental work on drugs over the past 10 years. The Minister, although based in the Home Office, is responding on behalf of the Government, and I know he takes seriously his responsibilities on drugs. I question whether it should be necessary for two Departments to be involved with drugs, because the Minister is able today to discuss aspects of the drugs strategy that sit not only within the Home Office but within the Department of Education and other bodies, such as Public Health England and the NHS. That leads me to the report’s recommendation on the need to strengthen and open up the inter-ministerial group on drugs, which the Minister chairs. One of the recommendations is that the group’s minutes, agendas and attendance lists should be published. I have spent much of the past 18 months trying to get details of those minutes, agendas and attendance lists through parliamentary questions, and I have resorted to freedom of information requests. I have been continually thwarted by the Home Office, so I think that recommendation would help us to understand and appreciate what is happening across Government. We can see the importance of cross-Government working when we look at the record of achievement over the past 10 years on reducing the health harms of drug use, particularly heroin and crack cocaine use. All the key indicators are improving, and some of them have already been mentioned. The number of drug users is falling, particularly among the 16 to 24 age group, although, as the hon. Member for Cambridge highlighted, that may not give us a true picture if we take legal highs into account. The number of drug deaths has fallen even more sharply—more than halving between 2001 and 2011—partly because we have had much better access to treatment and because treatment is more successful. The average waiting time to access treatment was nine weeks in 2001; it was five days in 2011, and it is getting more effective. Only 27% of treatment programmes were successful in 2005, but the figure rose to 41% in 2011. Finally, and probably most importantly, more people are completing treatment. In 2005, 37,000 people dropped out of treatment before completion, whereas only 11,000 completed it. By 2011, those figures had almost reversed: 17,000 people dropped out of treatment, whereas nearly 30,000 completed it. I am sure we could see further improvement, and I am not complacent at all, but we ought to recognise that there has been huge improvement in treatment outcomes over the past 10 years. I say that in particular because much of what has been achieved was within the framework of collaboration. The National Treatment Agency for Substance Misuse was set up as a joint Home Office and Department of Health project to ensure that drugs treatment had the required priority in the NHS. Although the NTA was funded by the NHS, the Home Office had representation on its board because there was clear acceptance that the Home Office had a key part to play. We knew that drug treatment was important in reducing crime. We wanted to ensure that those two parts, treatment and crime prevention, sat together. I think the NTA was an unprecedented success, and I pay tribute to the recently retired chief executive, Paul Hayes, who did an excellent job over many years. I saw at first hand how collaboration can work effectively when I visited a drugs treatment facility in Wakefield run by Turning Point. In one building there were police

277WH<br />

Drugs<br />

6 JUNE 2013<br />

Drugs<br />

278WH<br />

right to highlight. This is wrecking many countries. We<br />

did not look at the situation with heroin and marijuana,<br />

but the same damaging effects apply in different countries.<br />

President Santos has been taking a strong stance,<br />

saying that his country will try to control this problem;<br />

but we cannot expect countries to be torn apart for ever<br />

in an effort to control a problem that cannot be controlled.<br />

I am delighted that, in 2016, the <strong>United</strong> Nations General<br />

Assembly will have a special session to look again at its<br />

international drugs policy. I hope that, whatever flavour<br />

of Government we have then, we will be working with<br />

people like President Santos and with the reformers to<br />

try to solve this global problem.<br />

We have worked for 40 years with a criminalisation<br />

process that has not delivered what we said it should<br />

deliver in 1971. It has not worked for the users of drugs,<br />

for society at large or for the Treasury. T<strong>here</strong> are much<br />

better ways.<br />

2.20 pm<br />

Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab): I<br />

welcome you to the Chair, Mr Bayley. It is a pleasure to<br />

serve under your chairmanship. I apologise, but I have a<br />

very sore throat, so my voice is not quite as it should be.<br />

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Cambridge<br />

(Dr Huppert). I will certainly look to his pronouncements<br />

in future for an indication of Liberal Democrat policy.<br />

I start by recognising that the report is an important<br />

piece of work. I pay tribute to the leadership of the<br />

Select Committee’s Chair, my right hon. Friend the<br />

Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz). I also pay<br />

tribute to all the members of the Committee who<br />

contributed to the report, which draws upon the huge<br />

experience of different people and organisations. As we<br />

have heard, many different countries have been considered.<br />

I had an opportunity to listen to some of the witness<br />

sessions. I heard Sir Richard Branson and Russell Brand<br />

give evidence, and I attended the Committee’s one-day<br />

conference in <strong>Parliament</strong>. I think it was very useful to<br />

invite the general public in to hear the deliberations of<br />

that Committee.<br />

I visited Colombia after the Select Committee’s visit,<br />

and I know from my conversations with the Serious<br />

Organised Crime Agency officers based in Colombia<br />

that they were delighted to be able to explain the<br />

international role they play in addressing the drugs<br />

problem. They do some very important work, which I<br />

am pleased has been recognised in the report.<br />

The report is wide-ranging and contains many<br />

recommendations. Because of the time, I will go through<br />

some of the recommendations that I believe are key. I<br />

look to the Minister to answer some of my questions on<br />

the approach the Government will take to addressing<br />

the Committee’s recommendations.<br />

I start with the recommendation that the lead for<br />

drugs policy should be shared between the Home Office<br />

and the Department of Health, with a designated point<br />

person co-ordinating policy. That might seem an unlikely<br />

place to start, but I think it is absolutely essential that<br />

drugs policy is co-ordinated across Departments. I will<br />

address that theme in the points I raise this afternoon.<br />

The Opposition recognise the importance of a co-ordinated<br />

approach, and it is certainly important to recognise that<br />

t<strong>here</strong> has been a high level of cross-departmental work<br />

on drugs over the past 10 years.<br />

The Minister, although based in the Home Office, is<br />

responding on behalf of the Government, and I know<br />

he takes seriously his responsibilities on drugs. I question<br />

whether it should be necessary for two Departments to<br />

be involved with drugs, because the Minister is able<br />

today to discuss aspects of the drugs strategy that sit<br />

not only within the Home Office but within the Department<br />

of Education and other bodies, such as Public Health<br />

England and the NHS.<br />

That leads me to the report’s recommendation on the<br />

need to strengthen and open up the inter-ministerial<br />

group on drugs, which the Minister chairs. One of the<br />

recommendations is that the group’s minutes, agendas<br />

and attendance lists should be published. I have spent<br />

much of the past 18 months trying to get details of<br />

those minutes, agendas and attendance lists through<br />

parliamentary questions, and I have resorted to freedom<br />

of information requests. I have been continually thwarted<br />

by the Home Office, so I think that recommendation<br />

would help us to understand and appreciate what is<br />

happening across Government.<br />

We can see the importance of cross-Government<br />

working when we look at the record of achievement<br />

over the past 10 years on reducing the health harms of<br />

drug use, particularly heroin and crack cocaine use. All<br />

the key indicators are improving, and some of them<br />

have already been mentioned.<br />

The number of drug users is falling, particularly<br />

among the 16 to 24 age group, although, as the hon.<br />

Member for Cambridge highlighted, that may not give<br />

us a true picture if we take legal highs into account. The<br />

number of drug deaths has fallen even more sharply—more<br />

than halving between 2001 and 2011—partly because<br />

we have had much better access to treatment and because<br />

treatment is more successful. The average waiting time<br />

to access treatment was nine weeks in 2001; it was five<br />

days in 2011, and it is getting more effective. Only 27%<br />

of treatment programmes were successful in 2005, but<br />

the figure rose to 41% in 2011.<br />

Finally, and probably most importantly, more people<br />

are completing treatment. In 2005, 37,000 people dropped<br />

out of treatment before completion, w<strong>here</strong>as only 11,000<br />

completed it. By 2011, those figures had almost reversed:<br />

17,000 people dropped out of treatment, w<strong>here</strong>as nearly<br />

30,000 completed it. I am sure we could see further<br />

improvement, and I am not complacent at all, but we<br />

ought to recognise that t<strong>here</strong> has been huge improvement<br />

in treatment outcomes over the past 10 years. I say that<br />

in particular because much of what has been achieved<br />

was within the framework of collaboration.<br />

The National Treatment Agency for Substance Misuse<br />

was set up as a joint Home Office and Department of<br />

Health project to ensure that drugs treatment had the<br />

required priority in the NHS. Although the NTA was<br />

funded by the NHS, the Home Office had representation<br />

on its board because t<strong>here</strong> was clear acceptance that the<br />

Home Office had a key part to play. We knew that drug<br />

treatment was important in reducing crime. We wanted<br />

to ensure that those two parts, treatment and crime<br />

prevention, sat together. I think the NTA was an<br />

unprecedented success, and I pay tribute to the recently<br />

retired chief executive, Paul Hayes, who did an excellent<br />

job over many years.<br />

I saw at first hand how collaboration can work effectively<br />

when I visited a drugs treatment facility in Wakefield<br />

run by Turning Point. In one building t<strong>here</strong> were police

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