here - United Kingdom Parliament
here - United Kingdom Parliament
here - United Kingdom Parliament
Create successful ePaper yourself
Turn your PDF publications into a flip-book with our unique Google optimized e-Paper software.
871 Fixed-term <strong>Parliament</strong>s Bill 1 DECEMBER 2010 Fixed-term <strong>Parliament</strong>s Bill 872<br />
[Mr Jenkin]<br />
Moreover, the Minister has rested his justification for<br />
the Bill on the assertion that it would not be possible to<br />
write these provisions into the Standing Orders, which<br />
would be automatically immune. Let me read from the<br />
Clerk’s memorandum again. He said that<br />
“a Standing Order regulating the matters in the Bill could provide<br />
for its staying in effect unless repealed by a specified majority”,<br />
meaning that it could be entrenched,<br />
“for example by…equal to or greater than two thirds of the<br />
number of seats in the House. Not only is the principle of<br />
specifying majorities already written into the Standing Orders of<br />
the House, but in the past the House has also required a relative<br />
majority for reaching decision.”<br />
My hon. Friend the Minister also dismissed the<br />
comments that I read from Mr Robert Rogers, the Clerk<br />
Assistant and Director General, who made it clear that<br />
we can not only write into our Standing Orders provisions<br />
requiring super-majorities, but entrench a—[Interruption.]<br />
I am rather distressed that the Minister is not even<br />
listening to what I am saying. We can entrench a Standing<br />
Order with its own super-majority so that it could be<br />
removed only by a super-majority, if that is what the<br />
House chose to do. The whole basis of the Government’s<br />
advice remains contested by the Clerks. The basis of the<br />
Bill—that this has to be done through statute—also<br />
remains contested by the Clerks.<br />
I doubt that we will win the vote in the Committee<br />
this afternoon, but the Minister has failed to give a full<br />
response or to acknowledge any of the points that have<br />
been made. His subsection refers to a Speaker’s “certificate<br />
under this section”, which is very unspecific. At least<br />
the amendment states<br />
“Any certificate of the Speaker of the House of Commons<br />
given under this section shall be conclusive for all purposes”.<br />
That word “any” and the reference to the Speaker make<br />
it clear that whatever the Speaker issues is uncontested,<br />
rather than leave it open to the courts to determine<br />
whether the certificate presented by the Speaker complies<br />
with the legislation. I am afraid that the Minister has<br />
not satisfied me and I do not think that he has satisfied<br />
a great many of my colleagues on the Government<br />
Benches or in the official Opposition. I want to press<br />
the amendment to a vote.<br />
Question put, That the amendment be made.<br />
The Committee proceeded to a Division.<br />
Tessa Munt (Wells) (LD): On a point of order, Mr Evans.<br />
At lunchtime today I was sitting in the Terrace cafeteria<br />
and, for the second time in a fortnight, I was unable to<br />
hear the Division bells at all. T<strong>here</strong> was nothing to<br />
indicate that a vote was taking place. Can you facilitate<br />
Members’ ability to vote if they are sitting in that area,<br />
perhaps by asking the Badge Messengers to inform<br />
them that a vote is taking place while the problem is<br />
sorted out?<br />
The First Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means (Mr Nigel<br />
Evans): Thank you for that point of order. I must say<br />
that I have taken a number of points of order in a<br />
similar vein since taking the Chair on 8 June, and this is<br />
clearly worrying for Members as well as irritating for<br />
the Chair. I will instruct that the matter be fully investigated,<br />
not just in the area that the hon. Lady has spoken<br />
about, but throughout the parliamentary estate. Clearly,<br />
it could affect the outcome of a vote. In the short term,<br />
I ask that, every time t<strong>here</strong> is a Division today, a<br />
messenger goes particularly to that part of the House to<br />
ensure that Members are made aware that a Division is<br />
taking place.<br />
The Committee having divided: Ayes 231, Noes 295.<br />
Division No. 138]<br />
[3.42 pm<br />
Abbott, Ms Diane<br />
Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob<br />
Alexander, rh Mr Douglas<br />
Alexander, Heidi<br />
Ali, Rushanara<br />
Austin, Ian<br />
Bain, Mr William<br />
Balls, rh Ed<br />
Banks, Gordon<br />
Barron, rh Mr Kevin<br />
Bayley, Hugh<br />
Bell, Sir Stuart<br />
Benn, rh Hilary<br />
Berger, Luciana<br />
Betts, Mr Clive<br />
Blackman-Woods,<br />
Roberta<br />
Blears, rh Hazel<br />
Blenkinsop, Tom<br />
Blomfield, Paul<br />
Blunkett, rh Mr David<br />
Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben<br />
Brennan, Kevin<br />
Brown, Lyn<br />
Brown, rh Mr Nicholas<br />
Brown, Mr Russell<br />
Bryant, Chris<br />
Buck, Ms Karen<br />
Buckland, Mr Robert<br />
Burden, Richard<br />
Burnham, rh Andy<br />
Byrne, rh Mr Liam<br />
Cairns, David<br />
Campbell, Mr Alan<br />
Campbell, Mr Ronnie<br />
Caton, Martin<br />
Chapman, Mrs Jenny<br />
Clark, Katy<br />
Clarke, rh Mr Tom<br />
Clwyd, rh Ann<br />
Coaker, Vernon<br />
Coffey, Ann<br />
Cooper, Rosie<br />
Corbyn, Jeremy<br />
Crausby, Mr David<br />
Creagh, Mary<br />
Creasy, Stella<br />
Cruddas, Jon<br />
Cunningham, Alex<br />
Cunningham, Mr Jim<br />
Cunningham, Tony<br />
Curran, Margaret<br />
Dakin, Nic<br />
Danczuk, Simon<br />
Darling, rh Mr Alistair<br />
Davidson, Mr Ian<br />
Davies, Geraint<br />
Dobson, rh Frank<br />
Dodds, rh Mr Nigel<br />
Donohoe, Mr Brian H.<br />
Doran, Mr Frank<br />
AYES<br />
Doyle, Gemma<br />
Dromey, Jack<br />
Dugher, Michael<br />
Durkan, Mark<br />
Eagle, Ms Angela<br />
Eagle, Maria<br />
Edwards, Jonathan<br />
Efford, Clive<br />
Ellman, Mrs Louise<br />
Engel, Natascha<br />
Esterson, Bill<br />
Evans, Chris<br />
Field, rh Mr Frank<br />
Fitzpatrick, Jim<br />
Flint, rh Caroline<br />
Fovargue, Yvonne<br />
Francis, Dr Hywel<br />
Gapes, Mike<br />
Gardiner, Barry<br />
Gilmore, Sheila<br />
Glass, Pat<br />
Godsiff, Mr Roger<br />
Goggins, rh Paul<br />
Goodman, Helen<br />
Greatrex, Tom<br />
Green, Kate<br />
Greenwood, Lilian<br />
Griffith, Nia<br />
Gwynne, Andrew<br />
Hain, rh Mr Peter<br />
Hanson, rh Mr David<br />
Harman, rh Ms Harriet<br />
Harris, Mr Tom<br />
Havard, Mr Dai<br />
Healey, rh John<br />
Hendrick, Mark<br />
Hepburn, Mr Stephen<br />
Heyes, David<br />
Hillier, Meg<br />
Hilling, Julie<br />
Hodge, rh Margaret<br />
Hodgson, Mrs Sharon<br />
Hollobone, Mr Philip<br />
Hosie, Stewart<br />
Howarth, rh Mr George<br />
Hunt, Tristram<br />
Irranca-Davies, Huw<br />
James, Mrs Siân C.<br />
Jamieson, Cathy<br />
Johnson, rh Alan<br />
Johnson, Diana<br />
Jones, Graham<br />
Jones, Helen<br />
Jones, Mr Kevan<br />
Jones, Susan Elan<br />
Jowell, rh Tessa<br />
Joyce, Eric<br />
Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald<br />
Keeley, Barbara<br />
Keen, Alan<br />
Kendall, Liz