I Records of the John F Kennedy Assassmallon Colleclion Key ...

I Record s of the John F Kennedy Assassmallon Colleclion Key Persons Fil es

Records of the John F. Kennedy Assassination Collection: Key Persons Files
1'"0·302 (R•;r· 3·3·HI
FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION
Date ,---1.....;1/_2_3...:.../_6_3 ___ _
J ::163
ROBERT H. JACKSON, 4030 Sperry, D~llas, Texas, who
is employed as Photographer for the Dallas T1mes Herald
(newspaper), advised he was in the presidential motorcade
at Dallas on November 22, 1963, riding in approximately the
seventh or eighth car. He advised the car in which he was
riding was proceeding north on Houston Street, between Main
and Elm Streets, and the presidential car had alr~ady turned
le~t on Elm Street (o~~ Houston Street) when he heard three
loud reports which sounded like shots from a gun. He stated
that there was a npauae 11 after the first shot, which was
followed by the second and third shots in rapid succession .
JACKSON advised that upon hearing the three shots,
he looked upward and straight ahead at a window·in the
Texas School Book Depository Building, 411 Elm Street,
Dallas 1 in time to see the barrell of a rifle being pulled
inside the window. JACKSON said he was unable to see the
person holding the rifle and therefore could not de~cribe
such individual.
JACKSON made reference to the last rmi" of double
windows toward the east on the side of the Texas School Book
Depository ,Building facing Elm Street. He described the
window in which he saw the rifle as being on the floor next
to the. top ~loor of the building and nearest the southeast
. corner of the building. He recalled there were two rc g~o
individuals looking out the double windows immediat ly below
the window in which'he saw the rifle. JACKSON said 'he could
not be certain, but it is his impression these two Negroes
were looking upward in the direction of the window in which
tie observed the rifle.
/
JACKSON advised there were four other individuals ·
riding in the same car with him in the motorcade. He recalled
one of these individuals was TOM DILLARD, Dallas
Morning News Photographer, and ·that another_.individual in
the . oar was ·JIM UNDERWOOD of· ,radio and . tela\fty.sion station
KRLD •.· . He s~ate.d he .. did not recall the. ident:tty .of the ' other
two indiViduals in the -cat' With him.' · · ·
..
on
11/22/63 at __ D_all._a_s_,_T_e_x_a_s _______ File I DL 89-43
by Special Agent __ G_AS_T_O_N_C.....;•;,.,._T_H....:O_ MP:.:....:. S_O_N:_/~J-t_
·---- Date dictated _l_l_/_2_3_/_ 6 _3___
/6 -
Thl• document contain• neither recommendation• ROI' c onelu10lona of the f"o I. It Ill the property of the r a; a n~
your aQenOYI II aacl II•· oontenta are llot to I>• dlaltrll>ut•d outalde your oqenoy,
Sa loan-c d to

Records of the John F. Kennedy Assassination Collection: Key Persons Files
FD-302 (Rev. 3·3-~9)
1
FED~RAL BURE~U OF INVESTIGATION
.}: Date November 25, 1963
THOMAS C. PILLARD, Chief Photogr~pher, 1 Dallas Morning
News, states he was riding in car number 7 of the Presidential .
'iiiO't'Orcade on November 22 p 1963 9 along with JIM -uNDERWOOD,
KRLD-TV, Dallas 1
Texas; BOB ~ACKSON, Dallas Times Herald,
Dallas, Texas; BERT SHIPP, WFAA-TV, Dallas, Texas, and one
other individual besides the driver, neither of Whose
names he can recall.
Mr. DILLARD stated the car in which he was riding
had not approached the corner of Houston and Elm Streets
when he heard a noise sounding like a "torpedo" (a large ··
firecracker). He states upon hearing another sound similar
to the first he realized it was gunfire. He states that tpl1 rearlng
the third shot the car in which he was riding was stopped
almost in front of the Texas School Book Depository Building.
He states at that time he heard BOB JACKSON of the
Dallas Times Hera~d exclaim "I see· a rifle. - It's up there in
the open window." Then JACKSON pointed toward the Texas School
Book Depository Building located at Elm and Houston Streets.
Mr. DILLARD stated he looked upward t?¥~md the building
and saw nothing resembling a rifle protruding/an open window. .
He ~tates he did, however, take two photographs of the building .
at that time.
Mr. DILLARD further stated he then left the car
attempting to get to the front of the motorcade in order that
he could determine .if anyoQet.had be~n hurt. He also stated
from that time on he was(i~ 0 « · position th~~he could see
anyone exiting the Texas School Book Depository Building •
..
..•
on 11/25/63 at Dallas 9 Texas f' File '# -~P:..~.L~8~9~-;.;o~4..,3:..-__ _
by Special Agent BENJAMIN O. K.EUTZER/~h Date di c:tated __ 1_1.:.,./_2_5.:.../...;.6_3 ___
!&
Thl• document contain• neither recommendations nor conclusion• of the FBI; . it I• the property of the FBI
l;oour aq_enCYf· ll ·and 118 content• are not to be dlatrlbuted outalde your aqency.
and Ia loaned to

Records of the John F. Kennedy Assassination Co llection: Key Persons Files
1 9~~ttf0 ----'· ;:.:..·:."-Ut:...-:..4.!...1..:.:6~3=-----....;.._--
ROBERT H. JACKS ON
residence 4030 Sperry,
information:
photographer, 11 Dallas Times Herald",
Texas, furnished the following
On November 24, l9b3, he .entered the Dallas Police
Department about 9:00 or 9 g lb AM through t he l-1ain Street
entrance. He took the elevator t o the third floor and went
to the Press Room. At that time~ he noticed only three or
four people on the third floor. About 9:30 or 9:40 AM he
rode the elevator to the basement and went to the area
usually designated as the Jail Office. He was not required
to identify himself ~nd does not recall seeing officers on
duty at the entrances through whi ch he passed. He had two
35 millimeter cameras and a flash attachment with his name on
it. He has worked at the Dallas Police Department on prior
occasions and believes it is possible some of the officers
know him by sight. Mr. JACKSON remained in the Jail Office
area and actually meant to make his photographs from this
area as OSWALD was brought from the jail elevator. However,
about 10:30 AM or 11 ~ 00 AM, the police officers moved
everyone from this area. He walked out onto t he ramp in the
basement where the TV cameras were set up. At that time, he
noted policemen~ on duty at e a ch end of the ramp. He saw
no one entering the building by way of the ramp entrances.
He observed no incidents in which unauthorized persons were
allowed to enter the basement area and knows of no unauthorized
persons who were present iri the area. To the best of his
ability to estimate, . there were probably about 40 persons
in the immediate area oi the shooting. He took his position
on the ramp where he could get a photograph of OSWALD as he
was brought from the Jail Office onto the ramp. He was
looking at OSWALD' s face but was conscious of a person
moving to his right and was concerned that this person would
move into the field of his vision and interfere with his
photograph. He did not actually see JACK RUBY or the gun
until the gun had went off. He photographed the scene
immediately after the shot was fired.
Mr. JACKSON advised that · JACK RUBY had be.en in the
office of the "Dallas Times Herald" during the summer of 1963
with some idea for a news story featuring one of the p~~formers
c ~
on 12/4/63 at Dallas i Texas File 11 DL 44-1639
JAMES F. GLONEK and
by Special Agent s RALPH E. RAWLINGS - gj Date dictated _1_2_1_4_/_·s_a __ _
Thl.a clocu-ot CODtalDII oett ... r recom-ndatlona nor concluatona of the FEll. It ta the propertr of the F'81 aocl J.a lea-d to
fOOII aveocrr tt and Jte Dlllllleota oua aot to be dletrtbatad oatatde rour aqeocr.
¥ -$>P
gf'

Records of the John F. Kennedy Assassination Collection: Key Persons Files
DL 44-1639
2
at his club. He saw him a t that time but i s not sure he would
have recognized him had he seen him in a crowd . He does not
recall having seen RUBY on November 22 or• 23, 1963, or prior
to the shooting . of OSWALD on November 24 , 1963 • . JACKSON
remained in the basement f or about ten minutes after the
shooting and then left by way of the ramp exiting onto Commerce
Street. There was a patrolman on duty there but he was not
required to identify himself. He does not kno~ whether or
not the patrolman recognized him as a member of the local
press.
Mr. JACKSON advised he had no information indicating
that any person conspired wi th RUBY to effect the killing of
OSWALD or that any police officer or other official willfully
permitted the ~illing.
He has no information of ·any relationship or prior
acquaintance between RUBY and OSWALD. He had never known
OSWALD or heard of him prior to the shooting of President
~ENNEDY.

Records of the John F. Kennedy Assassination Collection: Key Persons Files
f'D-302 (Ray, 3·3-5 V)
FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION
1
Date 11/25/63
JAMES ROBERT UNDERWOOD, Assistant News Director,
KRLD - TV, Dallas, states he was an occupant of car number
7 or 8 of the Presidential motorcade on November 22, 1963, _..
along with TOM DILLARD, Dallas Morning News, Dallas, Texas;
BOB JACKSON, Dallas Times Herald, Dallas, Texas; JA ~ms DARNELL,
WBAP-TV, Fort worth, Texas and one other person besides the
driver, neither of whose names he ·can recall.
Mr. UNDERWOOD states the car in which he was riding
was approaching the corner of Houston and Elm Streets, Dallas,
Texas, when he heard a loud noise soundin~ similar to a
gunshot. He states that upon hearing the second noise he
vealized it was a gunshot .and that at the sound of the next
shot the car in which he was riding was a:fmost .,r· :·· ··· ·•,-, ·
directly in front of the Texas School Book Uepository
Building located on Elm and Houston Streets. ~ He stated at .
this time the car in which he was riding had bee~ stopped,
and he overheard BOB JACKSON of the Dallas Times Herald
say "There's B · rifle.~ Then JACKSON pointed upward toward
the ' Texas School Book Depository Building.
Mr. UNDERWOOD states he looked toward the Texas
School Book Depository Building but could see nothing resembling
a rifle protruding from a window. Mr. UNDERWOOD
further stat~13 ·at this time he left the car in which he was
riding and that for sometime afterwards he was near the
entrance of the Texas School Book ~p ository Building, but
he did not notice a person resemblibg LEE HARVEY OSWALD
come from the building.
,.
. ·.
•
C i::; .ion N • 6
on
11/:25 1 63 Dallas, Texas
. I at-----------------~~~r----------
. ~I"
File I DL 89-43
bySpeciaiAgent BENJAMIN O. KEUTZER/csh (ss) Date dictated _l_l..;./_2 ..;;.5.:...f_6.;..J_ · _ .......
. .. ·. ,, . . . ' .. 11' -
Thla document eonlalna neither reoommendallono nor eoncluolono of the F'BI. lt Ia the property of tho P'BI oncl 1• loaned to
your aqonoJI 11 and ito contoato are not to be dlatrlbutod outo.l.do rou,r aooacy,

Records of the John F. Kennedy Assassination Collection: Key Persons Files
F D·3 02 (Rev , 3·3·59)
FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION
1 Date ---=l==l:..c../.:.2.:....7/r...;6:;.::3:...,...... ___ _
"''"fi-r,..
MALCOLM o. COUCH, 4215 Live Oak, Apa~t ment 302, Dallas, a
photographer for WFAA-TV, advised t hat he was in the seventh .or
eighth car of the presidential parade on Novemb~~r 22, 1963, along
with ROBERT H. JACKSON, Dallas "Times Herald" photographer, JIM
UNDERWOOD of KRLB-TV, Dallas, and JAMES DARNELL, WBAP-TV, Fort
Worth. He said t~ey left Love Field and were traveling the
presidential route on Houston Street when he ~eard two loud noises
about ten seconds apart which sounded like a motorcycle backfire.
He said as they turned ~he corner onto Elm from Houston, he heard
another noise, and ROBERT JACKSON ye~ed to look up at the window.
He said he immediately turned his head toward the area of the Texas
School Book Depository Building, and around the fifth or sixth
floor he observed what appeared to be a rifle being withdrawn from
a window. He said by this time the car was approximately in front
of the window in question, but he could not observ any figure
behind same. He said he recalled at least two Negroes on the third
or fourth floor of the building looking up toward the next floor.
He advised the car proceeded down Elm and under the underpass, and
by this time the presidential car was well on its way to the
hospital~ He advised their car stoppe

Records of the John F. Kennedy Assassination Collection: Key Persons Files
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Records of the John F. Kennedy Assass ination Collection: Key Persons Files
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Records of the John F. Kennedy Assassination Collection: Key Persons Files
JLR:AS:mln
3 Mar 64

Records of the John F. Kennedy Assassination Collection: Key Persons Files
/~
MEMORANDUM
TO:
Mr. J, Lee Rankin
~ \ . -------
FROM: \f'y Arlen Specter -----'
SUBJECT: Witnesses Who Testified Before the Commission on March 9
and 10, 1964
On March 9, 1964, Roy H. Kellerman, William R. Greer,
Clinton J. Hill, and Rufus W. Youngblood testified before the
Commission. As you know, I interviewed those witnesses on March 3rd
and 4th at which times they told me of the assassination events just
as they were set forth in their statements previously provided to us
by the Secret Service.
The testimony of the four Secret Service agents was very
similar to the information provided in their prior interviews.
Mr. Kellerman added a significant element when he testified before
the Commi$sion that he believed there must have been more than three
shots. I then developed fully all of the factors which led to that
~onclusion. Mr. Greer told me on March 3rd that he recollected only
two shots, but testified that he heard three shots. All four witnesses
impressed me as being credible. Mr. Kellerman tended to 'elaborate on
the events with explanations of the various occurrences. Mr. Greer
testified in an abbreviated fashion sticking close to what he knew
for sure. Mr. Hill was an extremely articulate witness and had a
thorough grasp of all the factors about which be testified. Mr. Youngblood
also was quite articulate and poised in his testimony.
In my_~pinion all these witnesses did their very best to
recount the situation as they recollected it. Notwithstanding that,
it is my conclusion that they do not accurately recall many of the
details on the precise time or sequence of shots ~r their exact
movements and reactions during the crucial 5 or 6 seconds •
Since the question had not been resolved as to the policy
on interviewing witnesses with or without a verbatim transcript in
advance of their testimony, I did not interview Robert H. Jackson,
Arnold Louis Rowland, James Robert Worrell or Amos Lee Eu1ns in
advance of their being called to testify before the Commission. In my
(

Records of the John F. Kennedy Assassination Collection: Key Persons Files
r -= =-=
:
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view their testimony would have been somewhat better organized and
more coherent with a pre-testimony i nterview; but all factors
consi dered, their testimony went r easonably well.
Mr. Jackson was the oldest and most ma.ture of this group
and w.s a very credible witness . Tr ained as a photographer, it is
my conclusion that substantial reliance can be placed upon his
observations, especially in view of his spontaneous declaration at
that time, corroborated by the other witnesses in the automobile
with him. Mr. Jackson gave the impression of being confident of the
'factors he recollected and was, in general, an impressive witness.
Arnold Louis Rowland presented the picture of being a goodlooking,
bright, well-dressed young ma.n . While he has t he face of an
18-year old, he has the carriage and demeanor of an individual somewhat
older. He gave the impression of bei ng alert and intelligent 1 and he
testified that he had straight As during most of his high school career
a.nd had an I .Q. of 147. At the conclusion of his testimony he broke
down when Senator Cooper asked a well-i ntended question as to whether
it occurred to Mr. Rowland t o call to the attention of a nearby policeman
the presence in the window of t he man with the gun. Rowland answered
that that was a recurring dream which he had which indicated his deep
emotional involvement in the event .
There are many details of Rowl and's testimony which cast
significant doubt as to whether he could have observed and remembered
so much. He testified that he had told the FBI on two occasions about
the negro gentlemen in the alleged assassination window which, of course,
must be checked out. My impression was that t he witness was telling t he
truth as he remembered 1~, but he had obviously thought about the subject
on a great many occasions and has passed the assassination scene frequently
which may provide the basis for his r econstruction of the event.
Congressman Ford did not notice t hat Rowland was starting to
become upset and began to ask a line of questions which the Chief- Justi ce
interrupted. Congressman Ford asked me t o ask the questions informally
of Rowland which I did in the i ntervening recess 1
but they were not put
on the record because Rowland did not return t o the afternoon session.
The Chief Justice very graciously sent Rowland on a tour of Washington
with his chauffeur. Rowland told me that he passed by the assassination
scene every day because it was on his way to work, but he had never gone
back to the scene a.nd stood t here to try t o recreate what he saw. I have
drafted a brief memorandum to Congressman Ford on this subject which I
am attaching to this memorandum for transmission to him if you approve.
James Richard Worrell was a very dull and inarticulate witness.
He impressed me as being honest and straight forward, but not very alert.
I do not place a great deal of reliance on his testimony and the position
r
/

Records of the John F. Kennedy Assassination Collection: Key Persons Files
- 3 -
which he described he was in, when he looked up and saw the rifle, was a
most awkward position. Worrell testified that he put his head straight
back and looked up so that his eyes would have been looking straight
upward in a line of extension of 180 degrees from his body. It is very
possible that he did see the rifle but it is most likely that he turned
in a somewhat different position if, in fact, he did see the rifle •.
Amos Lee Euins was a.n inarticulate young negro boy (age 16) who,
nevertheless, did a reasonably good job in relating what he saw. He
impressed me as being credible and I evaluate his testimony as being
believable. I concluded that it was not worthwhile to resolve the number
of minor inconsistencies among his various statements lind testimony/
I/~
Ot

Records of the John F. Kennedy Assassination Collection: Key Persons Files
f{, p
PRESS RELEASE
The Commission convened at 9:00 a.m. for the purpose of taking
1 '1 / ~ (.
testimony.
Present at the meeting were the Chairman, Congressman For~
Senator Cooper and Congressman Boggs.
Congressman Ford to conduct the hearing.
The Chairman requested
Four witnesses were sworn
and testified.
They were:
Assistant Special Agent in Charge Roy H. Kellerman
Special Agent William R. Greer
Special ~gent C~inton
J. Hill who was ~n the follow-up car
and was assigned to protect Mrs. Kennedy.
Assistant Special Agent in Charge Rufus W. Youngblood, assigned
to the protection of Vice President Johnson and was in the front seat of
the Vice Presidential car.
Each of these agents testified as to the events of November 22
from early morning until return of the Presidential plane with the body
of President Kennedy.
The following witnesses will be examined t omorrow:
Arnold Louis Rowland
Amos Lee Euins
James Richard Worrell
Robert H. Jackson
Mr. J. Lee Rankin, General Counsel, was confined to his home
today with influenza.
March 9, 1964

Records of the John F. Kennedy Assassination Collection: Key Persons Files
March 10, 1964
M:SMOilA:::\DUM
~
To: Mess:::s. Rec'.lich and Craig
Subject: T.;stimony before the Co=.rr..:.ssion of Eyewitness Testimony-­
No::-man Redlich Memo o! Ma:::-ch 9
I
In reviewing the March 9 dtem.o:::andum from Norman Redlich
on the z..bove subject, we believe the ::~cord should show t.~e
following:
I
I. In Ball-BeliY'. :report no. 1, on page 235, it was
recom.·:ne:-;_c~ed that among t.~e eyewitnesses to the rifle in the TSBD
Bu:.lding, only Messrs. Brennan and Jackson should be called before
-chE: Commi~;sion and the remaining witnesses should have their testi-
-_:-_·_o-:::.y :::ecorded by deposition. We believe that the minimum number
:::,-£ wit::J.csscs should be called before the Commission in order to
;:c::-..se::.·ve the time of Commission members; since transcripts would
be avz.i~ablc
from the depositions, there would be no need at this
-c~-m.e
to call ·J1hat in substance was corroborating testimony ancillary
to t!':at of t1:.e main wit::'.esses. If ce?ositio::-..s produce important new
facts, the Com:nission could always call such witnesses at a later date.
2.. We take exception to the alleged facts and the
implications of the second sentence in the March 9 Redlich memora:1.dum
whereby it is asserted that Robert Edwards and Ronald Fisher

Records of the John F. Kennedy Assassination Collection: Key Persons Files
"of aU the eyewit:J.esses they have been the least definite in their
wiilingncss to say that Oswald wz.s t .. "'J.e -person who fired the rifle.
Why should t:O.ey not be questione :J ~n A?ril 6 at the same time as you
qucs';:ion Brennan? 11
The implication is that they are not being called
because t:1ey have been the least definite in their willingness to
identify Oswald as the assassin.
To begin with, t:he fact is that eyewitnesses Euins,
Worrell, and Rowland are being called pursuant to the request of
Mr. Spector rat:O.er than that of Messrs. Ball and Belin, and the
pu:-pose of l'Lr. Spector is to call all eyewitnesses who saw a rifle.
Sp-.:ctor is not concerned with who fi:!:"ed the rifle -- his sole concern
is t..""le place :::rom w:b.ich the shots were fired, Edwards and Fisher
saw no ::-ifle; they were not lookingat the TSBD Building at the time
t:he shots were fired.
Of the witnesses othe. than Brennan, Jackson saw only
:;.. rifle and could not possibly identify Oswald. Euins only says he saw
a white man with no hat and a bald spot on his head and did not see
the assassin 1 s face and could not identify him. ·Worrell at the time
of the shooting just saw a gun barrel and only purports to identify
!
so:neone who looked like Oswald after he had run about 100 yards away
from. the building when he looked b!ack c!nd saw someone else running
i
away f:!:"om the builcE.ng -- obviousLy, thls is poor identification.
2

Records of the Jolm F. Kennedy Assassination Collection: Key Persons Fi les
r
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I
.I
Rowland identified the person onlj as a white man with a light colored
sl:lirt on or;en at the neck and of slender build and dark hair but could
not identify the person as Oswald." Thus, it could hardly be said that
Euins and .Jackson are "definite in their willingness to say that Oswald
was "t::e pe::-son who fired the :rifle." A~C. even though Worrell is
willing to identify Oswald as the person he saw running away, as
fact-finders w~ give little weight to l:lis testimony in: light of l:lis
limited basis fer identification... Mor~over,
he saw no one firing the
rifle --all he saw was a rifle.
On the other hand, Robert Edwarcls in an affidavit
said the man he saw in the window hed on a light colored sport sl:lirt
with rather short hair and was around 26 years old, and Ronald Fisher
in an affidavit stated that the man was light headed and had on an open
neck s:birt and was in l:lis twenties with a clear colTiplexion.
When
interviewed by officers of the Dallas :Police Department, Fisher said
pictures of Oswald loo.-ed like the man he saw but he declined definite
identification. When later interviewed by the FBI, neither Fisher
nor Edwards could identify the man from pictu~es.
Edwards identified
·she person as having sandy hair and Fisher said the man had light
hair. It is t.">J.e identification of hair color which would not integrate
w:.th Oswald's appearance, although it might be explained by
reflection of sunlight if' this is the same person. Certainly we inf:end
3

Records of the John F. Kennedy Assassination Collection: Key Persons Files
i:."l cle ~osit:.0:!1S 'tO ,3'0 ir:to ~~liS a:::-ca. ('\./e ~ight aC.d that a collz..te::al
wi:~::'..ess
tc ·.;::e Tippit r.:1u:rde:r, ':lilliz..rr. A::-t::ur Smit:.1, said that when
he fi:·:.;t ~aw Oswald. on TV l:c c'ic'. not thin:.;;: Oswald was the person:
w:·w sho:: ':::'ippit, for on TV it looked as if Oswald had ligh:: colo::.-ed
hz.:.i::- w~:er.::as
the inc'ividuz..l Sr.::it:'. observed had dark hair.)
We did state to Mr. Spector that if he wanted to call
Zt:ins, '."!c:rre:l and Rowland to get all of the witnesses who claimed
t}:ey sa\v a rifle, we had no objection, although we felt it not necessary
si::'..ce cet=lO;:;itions would be available to Commission members.
(Spector agreed it was not necessary to call Couch who rode in t::e~
sz..=c ca:· with Jackson and w:=-.o corroborates Jackson 1 s exclamation
a::.ou·:: a gun and who also says he saw a gun being withdrawn,) Just
as we l:ad no objectio::1 to Spactor 1 s request to call Euins, "Worrell
and Rowland, we simila:-ly have no objection to calling Fisher and
E:G.wards, although again we feel that deposition transcripts would
'
b~ adequate and that at this time it is unnecessary to have them as
Comrnission witnesses. If on deposition t.l-J.ese two witnesses testify
:o facts whch warrant additional interrogation in front of the
Commission, they can and should be called at a later date. /
/
4