JOHN D. SHANE'S INTERVIEW WITH MRS. JOHN McKINNEY AND ...

JOHN D. SHANE'S INTERVIEW WITH MRS. JOHN
McKINNEY AND HER SON HARVEY,
BOURBON COUNTY
INCLUDING DATA ON JOHN McKINlEY'S FIGHT
WITH A WILDCAT
Br OTTo A. ROTHERT
Louisville, Kentucky
During the past eleven years THE FILSON CLuB HISTORY
QUARTERLY has published each year--beginning in 1928 with
Volume 2--one of the Interviews of Rev. John D. Shane. Shane
was born in 1812 and died in 1864. He spent much of his time
interviewing Kentucky pioneers and children of pioneers and
recording their recollections. Many of his voluminous notes on
these interviews are in the archives of the Wisconsin State HistoHcal
Society, at Madison, where they form a part of the Lyman
C. Draper Collection of Manuscripts. The Draper Collection
consists of about 500 volumes. About thirty are classified as
"Kentucky Papers," and are designated CC. Almost one-half
of these thirty volumes are Shane's notes (Volumes 11-17) and
clippings (Volumes 26-31). In 1925 the Wisconsin State Historical
Society published A Calendar of The Kentucky Paper8 of
the Draper Collection of Manuscripts, a book of 624 pages, compiled
by Miss Mabel C. Weaks.
The Calendar entry for the Shane Interview selected for
publication appears on page 500 of The Kentucky Papers. The
Calendar entry is here quoted in full. The document is designated
11CC25-27:
"Interview with Mrs. John McKinney and sou, Harvey
MeKinney, near Clintonville, Kentucky. Came to Kentucky
in autumn of 1785; John MeKinney's fight with the wildcat;
his removal to Missouri in 1808; returned after three years and
died December 27," 1825; his mother was a Miss Campbell; he and
John Boyd elders in Green Creek Church; location and descrip°
tion of Green Creek Church. Autograph note, 3 pages. Not
dated."
This Interview was chosen because it includes; data on
McKinney's fight with a wildcat--a comparatively well-known

158 The Filson Club History Quarterly [Vol. 13
incident, especially to those who have read James Lane Allen's
John Gray (1892) and The Choir Invisible (1897). Furthermore,
the life of McKinney evidently is one filled with the romances and
hardships of pioneer life. As we shall see, it is said that his
autobiography was "printed in 1800, and 1824, in Lexington."
If that be true and a copy can be found, it, in all probability, will
be declared worthy of republishing. Such a book or pamphlet
is not yet listed by Douglas C. McMurtrie, of Evanston, Illinois,
who is by far the greatest and most thorough compiler of early
American imprints and the outstanding historian of printing in
America. If McKinncy's autobiography was ever published,
even if no copy can now be located, McMurtrie, who is always
thorough, will, in time, list it as having been published, provided
a printed announcement of its publication is found.
John McKinney first came to Kentucky in 1779; he died in
Bourbon County in 1825. No effort shall be made in the course
of these notes to give a thorough list of sources from which a life
of McKinney might be compiled. Before presenting Shane's
data on MeKinney's experience with a wildcat, we shall show
that he had fought in Dunmore's War and that, as a result, the
wounds then received, must have been such that he was somewhat
handicapped when, a few years later, he faced an attacking
catamount.
The Dunmore's War incident is given in Shane's brief note
of his Interview with a Mr. Ware, of Fayette County (11CC75) :
John MeKinney, the teacher, died near Clintonville. Was
at the Battle of the Point. Said the Indians ambuscaded, and
let them pass by, and then attacked them. He and nine others
flew to one tree. He was wounded in seven places. An Indian
and he got into close quarters. He went to draw his knife and it
was gone; [it was] left at camp. The Indian struck a blow at
his head and he dodged, and the tomahawk cut three of his ribs
loose. One of them only got in besides himself and that one
died that night.
McKinney's wildcat fight probably took place in 1783, or
within a few years of that time. We here copy in full Shane's
Interview with McKinney's widow and son. 1V[any of these
notes pertain to the wildcat fight. The date of the Interview is
not given, but it apparently took place in, or shortly before, 1849.
In this transcription we have made no changes other than
spelling out abbreviated words and adding, in brackets, a few
attempted elucidations. The parentheses are Shane's. His

1939] Shane's Interview with Mrs. John McKinney 159
subject headings are here printed in italics. The Draper Manuscript
Collection's designation of the original document, as
already noted, is 11CC25-27:
SHANE'S NOTES ON HIS INTERVIEW WITH MRS. McKINNEY
AND HER SON HARVEY
John McKinney'sfamily--widow and son. Liveing [in Bourbon
County] on Green Creek, near Clintonville, to the right of
the road from Clintonville to Paris, and not a mile, direct course,
from Paris.
[McKinney's family comes to Kentucky]: Came out in the
fall of 1785. [John MoKinney seems to have been in Kentucky,
near Lexington, as early as 1779.] There were 300 in our company.
Started out in September. Had to wait a while till our
company collected. Just before we came along, the same fall
[1785, came also] Samuel McClure and wife (she had been an
Alexander). See Marshall, page 258. They retook [as prisoners,
Mrs. McClure] the mother of the child, but it was killed
by the Indians. Moore ran and left his wife.
[The McClure and Moore incidents are given in Humphrey
Marshall's History of Kentucky, on page 258, the one volume
printed in 1812. The same facts are also presented in Marshall's
second edition, two volumes, published in 1824, where they are
reprinted on page 220 of Volume 1. Further details are given in
Sketches of Western Adventure, by John A. M'Clung, the first
edition of which appeared in i832.]
John McKinney's Wild Cat Fight: It states in the pamphlet,
that he went to the school house and opened the door, and the
cat was in there, picking up the crumbs. Had gotten in through
a window. He got in, and shut the door, and fastened the
window, thinking to have some sport. Chased it round till he
got it mad, and it sprung at him three times. It at length got
fastened in him so fast, that it took two men to get it loose. Two
women that heard the noise, came to the door, and looking in
and seeing him in sweat and tears, ran back and got some men.
By this time he had leaned over on the corner of a table, and
smothered it to death. Asked him what was the matter. He
told them they need not to be scared--it was nothing but a bit of
a cat. The cat had torn his buckskin dress, and fastened its
claws so deeply in him, that it took the two or three men to
extricate him.

160 The Filson Club History Quarterly [Vol. 13
• John McKinney's Death: Deceased, September 27, 1825.
Went to Missouri in 1808. Staid three years, but it was sickly,
and he came back and got his former farm.
We moved out on Hickman [Hickman Creek, in Fayette
County, on] public land, about three miles from town [Lexington]
after having been there for a time, and staid there about
four years. Then came down here.
The Campbell sisters: Mr. (Win) Rankin's wife's mother, and
his mother, (John McKinney's) were full sisters. Campbell was
their name. One married a McKinney. One married a Mc-
Pheeters: Alexander. One married a Wallace: James. His
son James, [James Wallace] that lives by Russel's Cave [in
Fayette County] was a young man. Came with us through the
Wilderness.
A Pamphlet: McKinney published a little pamphlet. (I
[Shane] very much doubt this statement; and suppose Harvey
(his son) and his mother mean there was a printed account of
these matters--in some book or newspaper.) (See further,
page 65.)
Indians wounded McKinney: He was surveying down on
Licking. The bullit struck another man's powder horn, went on
into his shot pouch, and striking a piece of leather, glanced off
again, and struck McKiuney in the nipple, sinking into his
breast--but he drew it out by the thread of his shirt, which was
not broken. There were two indians hid in a tree top, and they
were not seen till after they had shot. The Indians crossed
Licking, and ran up a steep hill, so that they were afraid to follow
them. Blood gushed out, and they hollowed he was dead; he
pulled it out, & said no he wasn't, here was the bullit. This
before he moved out [to Kentucky with his family. ]
John McKinney called Captain: Was called Captain because
the choosing of the lodging place to camp in, at night, was committed
to him most of the way.
William Rankin had come out before we did, and we staid in a
part of his same house. It was not yet finished.
Green Creek Church: .John Boyd, John McKinney, early
elders in the Green Creek Church.
Isaac Cunningham: Called on; was sick. 1st introduced
[blue] grass.
Moses Shrepshire: Had seven horses stolen, for which he went
out way up on the Mississippi, and got them. Castrated a

1939] Shane's Interview with Mrs. John MeKinney 161
buffaloe bull, that had gotten tangled in the vines, near
• Lexington.
Indians steal horse: An Indian came and stole a horse, after
we came here. Our house then an outside house, and we in the
midst of a cane-brake. Chimney not carried up higher than one's
head, and the entrance of the door only with loose cloth over.
We saw the tracks of the moccasins. They were in the neighborhood.
This was a neighbor's horse, taken out of the cane just at
the back of our field, which was not very large then.
William Rankin lived about a mile out of town when we lived
with him.
Old Green Creek Church: Near Mr. McKinney's, in sight of
Clintonville, stood the old Green Creek Church. The remains
of the building, and the place of burial, were still to be seen. The
only grave-stones, with characters on, were two: One, "S. H. B.
1800." The other, "H. McA. K." (All kin.) The house about
50 by 40, mostly of ash logs; hewed. Ash-shingled, and fastened
on with walnut pins. Not a nail in the establishment. A
portico on the inside.
ADDITIONAL NOTES ON McKINNEY'S WILDCAT FIGHT
The Shane notes here quoted in full show that the various
narrators differ greatly in some of the details they gave.
Shane's inserted notation, "See further, page 65," leads to an
addendum that, apparently, was made shortly after his interview
with Mrs. McKinney and her son. It is a memorandum written
after a talk with one Mr. Ware of Fayette County. It is here
quoted in full from the Shane Documents 11CC41:
J. H. McKinney [was a] Captain. [The following note was
made on] 4th Sunday in May, 1850. His mother [Mrs. John
McKinney] now dead.
McKinney's Pamphlet: His father [McKinney's father] pubfished
a pamphlet giving an account of his life. Had a yellow
line running round the border. Gave an account of his suffering.
He was five years under the doctor.
I was out in Missouri and inquired about the book, but never
found it. Printed in 1800, and 1824, in Lexington.
(I [Shane] must examine file of Kentucky Gazette, for notice
of that pamphlet.)
My father [Ware's father] went to Missouri and back several
times, He camped out. He went to Missouri on 50 cents and
that was ferry expenses. I saw David Spurgin, of Clark, a short
time since. Spurgin said he voted for him.

162 The Filson Club History Quarterly [Vol. 13
The school house where MeKinney had the wildcat fight, was
right where the [Fayette County] Court-house now is. Spurgin
thought it was where the Market-house is. They used to be in
a hurry to get to the school-house in the morning, to get a drink.
Used a horn spoon. The water got so low you couldn't get more
than one horn spoon full. [On the west side of the Court House,
in Lexington, is a tablet, 16 by 10 inches, erected about ten years
ago, bearing this legend: "In 1783, Here Stood The First School
House in Kentucky."]
Shane's next interview, in which lV[cKinney's fight is one of
the subjects discussed, was with one Martin Wymore of Fayette
County and is designated 11CC128-132:
Wild-cat McKinney: I was going to 1Y[cKilmey's at the time
of the Wild-cat scrape. He had gone into the school-house, very
early in the morning, before sun up--probably to write a letter
to his friends in Virginia, and had left the door half-way open as
he went in. When the cat came in he was sitting on the opposite
side of a bench, writing. He saw, as he thought, that the cat was
mad, and threw his rule at it. It then flew at him. McKinney
screamed, and when they came in from the fort (the school-house
was just below the fort, (the old fort?)) he told them not to come
near, the cat was mad. He would not let them touch it. It
scratched and tore him very much before he could conquer it-not
having the use of his left hand, on which he wore a glove.
He finally choked it to death. After this, McKinney taught till
the 9th day, when he dismissed the school. He had nearly
starved himself and was, withal, most frightened to death. All
the scholars that went to the school were from in the fort. At
the time of this incident, there was no other house but the schoolhouse
yet built out of the fort. Many of the boys were sent
merely to keep them from wandering about where the Indians
would catch them.
In this interview Shane has a memorandum to the effect that
McKinney's school stood "30 or 40 stepsp' east of the east gate of
the fort. This fort stood on the site of what became the Court
House Square and its adjoining Cheapside, in Lexington. A
tablet, as already stated, now marks the site of McKinney's
school, designating it "the first school house in Kentucky."
Shane, in his notes on an Interview with Samuel Tribble, of
Bath County, added another memorandum on this subject some
time after his talk with Mr. Ware and with Mr. Wymore. It is
one of his notes designated 12CC44:
John McKinney: The wild eat had her kits in the end of a
hollow log. Children were out and their playing annoyed her.
She thought that they would interrupt her kits. McKiuney
went out, and just as he went to go out, the cat met him; he

1939] Shane's Interview with Mrs. John MeKinney 163
crushed it to death with his arms; but while he held it, it tore his
leather breaches, in front, all in pieces.
Another of Shane's records bearing on McKinney appears
in his Interview with Walker, or Walter, Kelso, of Peeled Oak,
Bath County, designated 12CCA2:
James Moore (his father and Dr. Moore of Shelby's fort were
brothers), first Episcopal minister in Lexington and Wild-cat
John McKinney, with a negro man of one of them, were coming
through the wilderness alone. One night when encamped they
heard the Indians all around them. Moore wanted to go on;
had seen signs of them before night; was very anxious to be up
and running. McKinney wouldn't let him. Moore thought
the Indians would get them. McKinney said it was impossible
unless they tread right on them.
[Rev. James Moore was a son-in-law of Rev. John Todd. In
1804 Moore was chosen President of Transylvania University.
He is the hero of James Lane Allen's Flute and Violin (1891).]
McKinney once found a buffaloc that had fallen between two
stumps, kicking, and altered it and then helped it up. It was
afterwards shot, having grown up to be a fine bullock. And he
then claimed it for his.
McKinney obtained a grant under the Spanish possessions, in
Missouri. It was necessary it should be settled, and he took out
stock, his two sons-in-law (sons of old Alexander McPheeters)
and other families. It was afterwards sickley, and of these
McPheeters, who were nephews of mine, one got back to Kentucky;
the other only as far as Indiana. This I think, and [but]
I don't know, whether [or not] there was a third son, Hugh, of
Alexander McPheeters.
Ranck's History of Lexington, Kentucky (1872) devotes two
pages to the fight and ends with the statement that "the account
here given is an almost verbatim statement made by him in
1820." He cites Western Review as his source, but does not give
the full title and date of the Lexington periodical. It is William
Gibbes Hunt's Western Review and Miscellaneous Magazine,
Volume 2, February to July, 1820. The story appears on pages _
43 and 44 and is signed "E." Ranck's is a verbatim copy, except
for a few char ges made in the first and last lines, and in punctuation.
We reprint the account in full as it appears, punctuation
and all, in the Western Review and Miscellaneous Magazine of
February, 1820:
SEVERE ENCOUNTER WiTH A WILD CAT.
IN June 1783, one morning about sunrise, Mr. JOHN M'KINo
NEV, then an instructor of youth, was sitting in his school house

184 The Filson Club History Quarterly [Vol. 13
in the town of Lexington, when a wild cat Of uncommon size
made its appearance at the door, and, without seeming to notice
him, suddenly leaped into the room, snapping its jaws and
foaming at the mouth. On observing it, his first thought was,
what fine sport it might afford him, if he had a good dog and
the door closed. But, to his great surprise, on casting its eyes
round and seeing him, instead of precipitately retreating as he
had expected, it advanced towm:ds him in a menacing manner.
He instantly reached forward to a table near him and attempted
to grasp a ruler, but, before he had obtained it, the animal was
upon him and seized him by the teeth on the collar bone near
his throat. With some difficulty, by striking at it upwards
under his jacket, he relieved himself from this grasp, but the
enraged animal instantly caught him by the right side, and,
with its long crooked tusks, pierced through his clothes and
penetrated between his ribs, where it held him so fast that he
found it impossible to extricate himself. At the same time its
sharp claws were employed with astonishing rapidity in cutting
off his clothes and tearing the flesh from his side. From its
situation he was unable to strike it with any considerable force,
but in the effort only wounded his own hand against the table.
Finding he could do nothing in that way, he seized the animal
with both arms, brought its hinder part between his thighs, and
pressed it with all his force against the table. It struggled violently,
and, fearing it might escape from his grasp and again
attack him with its claws, he now for the first time made an exclamation,
in the hope that some one might come to his relief.
The ladies, who were engaged near the place, milking their
cows, were most of them alarmed at the cry, and ran precipitately
into the fort exclaiming that something was killing Mr.
M'Kinney in the school house. Three of them, however, Mrs.
Masterson, Mrs Collins, and Miss Thompson, being less timid
than the rest, ran towards the house, and, after some deliberation
among themselves as to who should venture to look in first,
entered the door. Mr. M'Kinney, perceiving they were females,
and knowing Mrs. Masterson to be in a peculiarly delicate
state of health, was fearful of alarming them, and notwithstanding
his own dreadful situation assumed an air of composure,
and with a smile observed--"don't be alarmed, it is only a
eat I have caught, and I want some person to assist me in killing
it." He was thus careful not to inform them, as he might
have done with fax greater correctness, that the cat had caught
him! The ladies then boldly advanced towards him, and one
of them stooping down and observing the size of the animal,
exclaimed, what a monster!--ran to the door and called a gentleman
who happened to be passing by. He came in, and proposed
cutting off the claws of the eat, but Mr. M'Kinney, perceiving
it to lie perfectly still, concluded he had killed it, which, on

1939] Shane's Interview with Mrs. John McKinney 165
•rising, he found to be the fact. They then endeavoured to
draw out the animal's teeth from Mr. M'Kimaey's side, but
finding them so hooked in between his ribs that they could not
extricate them, the whole party left the school house, and advanced
towards the fort, where, by this time, a great alarm was
excited, and whence the people were rushing in crowds. After
reaching the fort, new efforts were made to relieve Mr. M'Kinney
from the tusks of the cat, which were at length rendered successful
by placing its head in the same position as when it made the
attack.
Notwithstanding his wounds, Mr. M'Kinney attended his
school that morning, but at noon found himself so exhausted
and his pain so extreme, that he was compelled to dismiss his
scholars and resort to his bed. By proper applications however
he was soon relieved; his wounds healed rapidly, and his usual
health was speedily restored. He is now living in Bourbon
county, and furnished us himself with the above interesting
particulars. E.
We here give the few references we found by chance while
looking up other subjects; research would undoubtedly result in
finding many more, and might include MeKinney's printed
autobiography.
In addition to the Shane data here quoted there are several
other notes on McKinney in the Shane Manuscripts of the
Draper Collection.
A two-page account of the wild eat fight appears in John A.
M'Clung's Sketches of Western Adventure, first published in 1832.
The M'Clung version differs from the one given by Mrs. Me:
Kinney and her son Harvey in their interview with Shane. It is
probable that a number of versions were in circulation a century
or more ago and that at least one of them then appeared "in some
book or newspaper" other than in Hunt's Western Review and in
M'Clung's Sketches.
A reference to "Wild Cat" John MoKinney and his combat
occurs on page 138 of History of Bourbon, Scott, Harrison and
Nicholas Counties (1882) edited by William Henry Perrin;
another is in A History of Fayette County, Kentucky (1882) by
Robert Peter and William Henry Perrin, page 255.
Some of the formal histories of Kentucky incidentally mentioned
the fight. Thomas D. Clark in his recent book, The
Rampaging Frontier (1939), devotes a paragraph to it.

166 The Filson Club History Quarterly [Vol. 13
James Lane Allen, as previously noted, described this famous
"wildcat fight in two of his novels: John Gray (1892) and The
Choir Invisible (1897).
As already stated, if a pamphlet giving an account of the life
of John MeKinney, including his fight with a wildcat, was ever
printed, the pamphlet is unknown to us. McKinney was qualified
to write an autobiography: he was a school teacher; represented
Bourbon County in the Virginia Legislature; a member of the
Constitutional Convention of 1792. and then represented the
same County in the Kentucky Legislature. He held various
other public offices.
As to his military career, it is quite probable that research
will show that, although severely wounded, he was active, in one
form or another, in some of the expeditions in which his contemporary
Kentuckians took part.
And so here is hoping that a copy of John McKinney's autobiography
will be found and republished; here is also hoping that,
if his sketch is not found, someone will do the necessary research
for the writing of an account of the life of this Kentucky pioneer
who was far more than a frontier school teacher who came out
victorious in a fight with a Wildcat.