februari-juni - KVS

They create theatre with a grand gesture towards the
smallness of man. They do it with powerful images,
strong commitment and a dip into reality. Thomas
Bellinck and Jeroen Vander Ven, the Steigeisen duo.
‘On a sidewalk table at the Al Jazeera bar’. It was
here that they met. In 2005, on the first day of their
entrance exam at the RITS in Brussels. They had to
wait for the jury’s decision and set off together to
find a pub in Molenbeek that served draught beer.
That turned out not to be so easy, so they just sat
down outside the Al Jazeera. They spent the whole
afternoon there, in a way that could be a metaphor
for the way that Jeroen Vander Ven and Thomas
Bellinck have worked together for the past several
years: each half in the shade, half in the sun.
Jeroen: ‘At the end of that afternoon half of Thomas’
face was sunburned.’
During their years at the RITS they worked together
regularly. Including a performance about
Robespierre, a figure they examine closely again
this year in De Onkreukelbare. Jeroen: ‘Thomas
was in the directing course and I was in the acting
course. The more things we did together, the clearer
it became that we were in a certain way compatible.
We found a kind of method for working together.’ In
2009 their graduation project was Fobbit, a performance
based on interviews they did with Belgian
troops in Afghanistan and eyewitness accounts.
This performance soon made it clear to the theatre
world that these two youngsters had firmly established
themselves. Historical-documentary, visually
powerful, masters at evoking atmosphere and
the questions that matter. In 2009 they founded their
own group: Steigeisen.
interview / eng
THE BOYS WITH
THE CLIMBING-IRON
inTeRVieW WiTh ThoMas beLLincK anD JeRoen VanDeR Ven oF sTeiGeisen
– ANNA LuytEN
steigeisen?
J: ‘We were in urgent need of a name when Thomas
came up with this.
T: ‘Instead of looking for a name that reflects
what you create, you hope that what you make will
ultimately transmit itself to your name. I was browsing
in Der Grosse Duden, a German picture dictionary
from the thirties, when I came across the word
‘Steigeisen’. It has a warm ring to it, it is a comfortable
word, but ultimately it is a boot with sharp
spikes. It is a climbing-iron for going up glaciers. The
spelling checker always changes it into ‘steengeiten’
(rock-goats)’.
one of your trademarks is your particular focus
on ordinary people in major events. and a fascination
with political reality and how it affects ordinary
people’s lives.
T: ‘I want to create things that relate to the world
I live in, things that anger or bewilder me. For example,
De Onkreukelbare starts out from the character
of Robespierre and the French Revolution, but
because of the Arab Spring this performance soon
acquires a double meaning. I want to say something
about what is happening around me. Sometimes
this manifests itself in more political action and
sometimes in theatre.’
J: ‘If something surprises me, I want to try and
get closer to it. I do this by creating a performance
about it. I want to communicate this surprise. And
especially: what the ordinary person’s story actually
says when it concerns a political situation in which
he finds himself or for which he is a model.’
billysallyJerry © kurt VanDerelst
Do the two of you work together using
a certain method?
J: ‘Last year we made Lethal Inc., a performance
based on research into ‘humane’ execution methods.
It is about a camp commandant and a Holocaust denier
who designs execution devices and is founded
on the amazement that people can do such things.
Together with the actor Joris Hessels we did the
research, read and watched films together. For our
other productions we talk to witnesses. We are also
doing this as we prepare for De Onkreukelbare. We
are reading Hannah Arendt and Zizek, but yesterday
we also watched a Woody Allen film.
We throw all these things onto one big pile and
then start to work with them. At a certain point the
roles become clear. I don’t sit waiting for instructions
from Thomas, but he is ultimately the director
and makes the decisions.
T: ‘From a certain point Jeroen gets up on stage
and I go and sit in front of it. I want to have and maintain
an overview. I’m a control freak. I want to see
what I am making and don’t like loose ends. Everything
you see must have meaning. Sometimes I myself
perform for other directors, which is good. An actor
is vain and yet very vulnerable. This is something
a director must always bear in mind.’
that at that time everything from the sixties was
actually being turned upside down’.
can you also indulge your fascination for the
ordinary man in the character of Robespierre, who
you are now involved with?
T: ‘One of the questions that really interests me
here is how is it possible that a fairly ordinary figure
like Robespierre could become one of the most
feared figures of the revolution in such a short time.
There are so many myths surrounding the man. He
has so much blood on his hands. While in one of his
first pieces of writing he advocates civil rights for
Jews and actors, and the abolition of slavery and
capital punishment. How does this change so suddenly,
and why does it suddenly become so violent?
This ordinariness is not a value judgment but an observation.
Consequently a performance like this is
also about us. How ordinary are we ourselves? We
try to chase after the big events, but we ourselves
are not the great thinkers and geniuses of our time.
That’s the advantage of a performance: you fill it with
lots of questions you cannot answer’.
They are not heroes...
J: ‘Heroes are not that interesting. I wonder whether
they even exist. History tends to unfold more by accident
than as a result of someone’s great plan.’
T: ‘Sometimes you have figures like Robespierre
who have an unassailable reputation. I would hardly
call them heroes. We call him the ‘onkreukelbare’
(the ‘unimpeachable’) because it sounds more ‘pathetic’
than ‘ the incorruptible’ which is the nickname
he was given during his lifetime. At the time of the
French Revolution many revolutionaries lapsed into
decadence following the execution of the king.
They invaded the palaces and took them over.
But Robespierre continued to live in a small flat in
a carpenter’s house. The only thing he spent any
money on was an expensive sky-blue coat he had
made by the best tailor. But we would certainly not
create a performance about Robespierre and ignore
the world in which we live today. Besides reading
and looking at more historical material, we also
plan to talk to people who were directly involved in
the Arab revolutions.’
is this also the advantage: that in a performance
What links Robespierre to the present, to the political
scene in 2012?
you don’t need to present firm views and slo-
J: ‘A lot of questions are raised. Are there scegans,
but in fact are able to treat your subject narios for a revolution? Why in God’s name do we
in Billy, Sally, Jerry and the 38. gun, Willy Thomas matter tentatively?
have so few examples of a revolution that has not
and isabelle Van hecke also appear on stage as J: ‘Yes, very tentatively, and sometimes not taking resulted in a bloodbath? Why does revolution de-
well as Jeroen.
up a position is provocative in itself. We have noticed vour its own children? Hannah Arendt writes that
T: ‘It was a different way of working, since I had that it knocks people off balance’.
the French Revolution was a blueprint for all sub-
Thomas, you appeared in the documentary series
already written the script beforehand. Which does T: ‘One has an opinion, of course. During the first sequent revolutions’.
Leuven Hulp as someone directing a play in pris-
not mean that we don’t make all sorts of changes few weeks of the rehearsal process for Fobbit, we T: ‘In a certain sense the French Revolution began
on. You worked with prisoners and psychiatric
during the working process.’
actually unconsciously created an anti-war pam- with grinding poverty. The Arab revolution is no dif-
patients. Together with Jeroen you detonated an
phlet. After a while we realised that it goes without ferent. It always starts with people who are hungry
easter egg outside the ministry to focus atten-
Billy, Sally, Jerry and the 38. Gun reflects on saying that we have no wish to advocate war. So we and with someone who has been sitting at a desk
tion on the problem of people without papers.
a september day in 1975, the day that the Us really don’t have to create a performance about this for too long and is reluctant to hand over power. Give
To what extent does this concrete social engage-
President Gerald Ford escaped an assassination now. We wanted to create a portrait of a man without someone a desk and a business card and strange
ment define your theatre performances?
attempt for the second time.
going into what we thought about him. You want peo- things happen in his mind. Suddenly the question is
T: ‘I’m not someone who easily walks about in
T: ‘The day Sara Jane Moore pointed her gun at ple to identify or to ask a question that we also asked no longer ‘why am I sitting at this desk?’, but ‘how
demonstrations holding banners. I would be very
Ford. Billy is based on Oliver Sipple, the man who ourselves during the actual process itself.’
can I make sure that I stay here for as long as possi-
reluctant to create a performance about those who
stood between Ford and Moore and reluctantly be- ‘In Billy, Sally, Jerry & the .38 Gun, Sally is simulble?’ And why is it that the people who ultimately re-
have no papers because I know it would become a
came a symbol of the gay movement. These are three taneously a double informer for the secret services move him from his desk themselves take his place at
pamphlet. But because I personally know people
lives that come together almost by chance’.
and a member of extreme left-wing opposition that desk? And why can’t you get rid of them? I don’t
who have no papers and the people who went on
J: ‘In this performance the wonder we want to groups. She has been married several times. For a know. It’s human. Superhuman. That is what makes
hunger strike, these are situations that enrage me.
communicate lies in the question of how this sad time she lived as a military wife on a military base. it so frightening’.
In such cases I am not averse to misusing theatre so
president, this revolutionary housewife and this gay Later she married a doctor and lived in the suburbs.
that these problems receive at least media atten-
ex-soldier come together at that significant juncture. Then she married a Hollywood sound engineer Do you have a desk and name cards?
tion. By detonating an Easter egg, for example. Or by
These little people summon up a whole world’. who had been nominated for an Oscar for his work T: ‘No, Thank God.’
getting the hunger-striking people without papers to
T: ‘They are solitary figures who all accidentally on Citizen Kane. Later she became a member of left- J: ‘We do have a website though.’
sing the Belgian national anthem in unison in three
create a great historical movement which has had ist movements. All the time she effortlessly changes
languages. But the aim of that kind of theatre is dif-
repercussions to this very day. I do not know why, her ideological framework. A lot of her decisions
ferent from what Steigeisen creates. In prison one of
but our fascination for the average man apparently were driven by a feeling of loneliness. Her decision
the aims was also to let people who society gener-
goes very deep. In Billy, Sally... you see how spon- to point a pistol at Ford was maybe more like a desally
regards as ‘scum’ be appreciated for what they
taneously and coincidentally three historical moveperate attempt to be seen as a fully-fledged human
did on stage. I am not a therapist. I learned a lot as a
ments have come together: American imperialism being than an action based on a genuine belief in
stage director in prison and in the psychiatric clinic.
in the seventies, the revolutionary movements of the revolution. Yet she was the one who pulled the
I enjoy working with people who have a highly sensi-
that time and the reversal of the idea of freedom trigger. This tells me a lot about how history is made.
tive bullshit meter. I was not there to create ‘theatri-
from the sixties. Recently I read in The Seventies The same goes for Ford, who accidentally became
cal nonsense’ and beat around the bush. Of course
Unplugged, which is a compendium of that time, president after Nixon got into deep trouble over the
a director has an ego too, and wants to come up
that it is actually typical of the seventies that a Watergate scandal in 1974. He launched the Helsinki
with a solution for everything. But while I was there
great many ordinary people resorted to violence agreements, and later he was proud that this her-
I learned not to push an actor back and forth just to
in terrorist activities. We were born in 1983. There alded the fall of the Berlin Wall. He was responsible
put a scene together at any cost. I’ve learned to look
at an actor to see what is there and what really happens
instead of seeing what I want to see. This does
not go smoothly and I still find it very difficult.’
are few people of our generation who can picture
anything of the seventies. Usually one thinks of this
time as: something like the sixties, but with more of
an economic crisis. Even though you can just feel
for withdrawing US troops from Vietnam. But he was
never democratically elected. He always continued
to struggle with an inferiority complex.’
billY, sallY,
jerrY…
p. 03
De onkreukelbare
p. 20
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