Conversations with Avant-garde Sages - The Wizard LLC

Conversations with Avant-garde Sages
while we're believing all of our thoughts, the separation feels true,
it feels like there really are separate things like a chair is a chair by
itself, and the sun is the sun by itself. Until we start to recognize
that non-conceptual aspect of our experience, and that's where I
think a lot of the traditions speak in terms of the quiet mind, or
dissolving the conceptual structure into a chair of silence, or pure
non-thinking recognition, or non-conceptual. But if you don't
leave it there, and you see that from that a thought might arise, or
within that a thought might arise, and still this thought doesn't
divide the universe, it's simply like a fiction, it doesn't really
divide, it's just thinking. And so then it's like you're seeing
through the thought, you're seeing the transparency of it, and you
no longer believe that it's pointing to a separate thing. It's really
like that reflection of the moon on water, it's like it almost has an
unreal quality to it, at that point it doesn't matter whether you're
thinking or not thinking, because you're free either way, your
freedom is not conditioned on either one of those things. And so
that's where I think this had to go for me otherwise I was
constantly monitoring my experience, and if people get themselves
into real… having a quiet mind and resting in silence can be a
powerful practice in the beginning, but then in the end can be
almost like a crutch because you almost divide your experience
between silence and sound, or no thinking and thinking, which
you create another duality that in the end it's helpful just to let
that one go too. But it sometimes happens later for people.
WIZARD: Ron Dass wrote in Be Here Now that when you
understand that thought is the thought of the thoughtless, your
singing and dancing is none other than the voice of the Dharma.
SCOTT KILOBY: Yes, that's great. Love that.
TRIP: Scott, you've got so much good stuff, man, I love it. Here's
another jewel of yours, okay. And this is another one I've fallen
victim to this, you say, and it's about oscillation. But you say the
sense of being pulled out of awareness comes from the false belief
that we're supposed to feel good all the time.
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