Conversations with Avant-garde Sages - The Wizard LLC

TRIP: Beautiful.
Conversations with Avant-garde Sages
PETER FENNER: Yes, it's a subtle point that you're bringing to
our attention Now, but yes. And this goes immediately back to
pure listening as well. In pure listening we don't reify, we don't
consolidate concrete ties, what people are sharing with us, it is a
different state. It's like a weird state, someone is sharing how
something is not working for them, that they're struggling, that
they're challenged in some way, we listen, but we don't make it
real, like we don't project reality onto them, because that
consolidates it, like makes this real. Nor do we like think and
communicate in a way that it's unreal, which would be to trivialize
someone's experience. And it's that way of walking the bridge
between like neither getting into, neither energizing, people's
constructions, particularly around suffering, nor trying to deenergize
them, nor try to help people, not trying to rescue them.
But being in that space beyond validation and invalidation that
allows for a natural and what I think is often times the quickest
release of difficult suffering situations.
TRIP: In my own journey, a critical tipping point in my own
personal affirmation was the point at which my mind let go of its
need to understand, do you see that to be the case for others as
well? That is a critical aspect of the whole thing, isn’t it?
PETER FENNER: Yes, it's a big one for sure. Often, say if I'm
working with a group of people, sometimes it can feel like there
are two mountain ranges to go over before we are just resting
together silently in like deep contemplative appreciation of the
nondual. And there's no particular order, but one mountain range
is the mountain range of needing to know what you're saying,
needing to understand what this is, how it works, what my life is,
where I've been, where I'm going. So it's that mountain range of
needing a reference point in knowledge. And then the other
mountain range is the mountain range of doing, but what have I
got to do, how do I do this, am I doing it right, do I have to do
more of this? Realizing that in the nondual, especially when we
come at it from the results level, there is nothing to do, no doer,
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