Conversations with Avant-garde Sages - The Wizard LLC

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Conversations with Avant-garde Sages TRIP: What do you think about that, that need that many of us have to understand the Truth, and to be able to regurgitate it at a party if we have to. LISA CAIRNS: Yes. I think that in the story, or in the story of liberation, it often starts out as intellectual understanding. Roger and Remesh used to say that it starts in intellectual understanding and works down to the heart. And if I look back on my story, I intellectually understood this, and then experientially it showed me in life. Like in my life I began to, yes, experience happiness as who I was, and not in the flow of life. I can see that actually happen. So I think that often it starts with intellectually understanding it, but what the mind gets stuck on is this isn't about intellectually understanding, it's not about living through the intellect, or living through an intellectual understanding of it. I wouldn't say that I'm the most, or I know other people as well that don't suffer any more, have woken up, or whatever you call it, are really intellectually clear. I know people that suffer still are maybe more intellectually clear. So it's not about intellectually understanding this subject, it's about the one that thinks they understand it or needs to understand it, or the concepts that have been put in place in that supposedly separate self of falling away. So Ramana Maharshi would say, and I know Roger and Remesh would say this too, is that you use one concept to remove another concept, and then you throw both concepts out. So it's actually like a lot of teachings use the concepts just to remove the other concept. WIZARD: Well said. LISA CAIRNS: I see it on Facebook a lot, so much. Like I'm not a writer, I don't feel the urge to write about this, but there's so much intellectual arguing about this through writing. Not that I think that's a bad thing, because this is often how it starts. I'm not judging and saying it's bad, it's just how it often starts. But it's not the answer, the intellect at all. It's actually the shift from living in the intellect and living in the idea of self, to that falling away, to 336
Conversations with Avant-garde Sages that no longer being present. Not that thinking doesn't still happen. WIZARD: Yes, sentience is that what in the East is called Siva, and it's formless and it's the substratum, as Ramana Maharshi would say, being comfortable in no thought. And thoughts may come and thoughts may go, but what the sentience of being is no longer the thought, the thought process, but rather something much deeper and all encompassing that it allows the bifurcating mind to go about its business doing whatever it wants to do without interfering with it. LISA CAIRNS: Yes. And not seeing that as who you are, the thoughts as who you are, it's just something that's arising in you like the heart beating, it's not you, it's not Truth, it's just what they are, thoughts. WIZARD: Just thoughts. LISA CAIRNS: Just thoughts. TRIP: So we're not intellectuals here, and so we're on board with you, we don't have… WIZARD: Not by a long shot. TRIP: We don't have the tools [Laughs]. We're lacking CPU crunching power over here. But I'm curious, are there any requirements, habits, or characteristics that aid in the simple looking that you invite others to engage in? For example, Faith or honesty, or anything like that that plays a role in the looking at the just isness of life. Is there anything we need to trust? Or is it all just so utterly simple and self-evident that you can just throw anything out the window. Is there any habit, anything? Honesty? LISA CAIRNS: Well, it's not that there are any habits or anything that needs to be in place for this to happen. But just from my experience of watching others, something that does tend to 337
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With Anchor & Host, Trip Overholt
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Conversations with Avant-garde Sage
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WIZARD: Be still. Conversations wit
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TRIP: Thank you. Conversations with
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Page 362 and 363: WIZARD: Amen. Conversations with Av
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WIZARD: Yes. Conversations with Ava
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WIZARD: Is. Conversations with Avan
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