Conversations with Avant-garde Sages - The Wizard LLC

Conversations with Avant-garde Sages
TRIP: What do you think about that, that need that many of us
have to understand the Truth, and to be able to regurgitate it at a
party if we have to.
LISA CAIRNS: Yes. I think that in the story, or in the story of
liberation, it often starts out as intellectual understanding. Roger
and Remesh used to say that it starts in intellectual understanding
and works down to the heart. And if I look back on my story, I
intellectually understood this, and then experientially it showed
me in life. Like in my life I began to, yes, experience happiness as
who I was, and not in the flow of life. I can see that actually
happen. So I think that often it starts with intellectually
understanding it, but what the mind gets stuck on is this isn't
about intellectually understanding, it's not about living through
the intellect, or living through an intellectual understanding of it.
I wouldn't say that I'm the most, or I know other people as well
that don't suffer any more, have woken up, or whatever you call it,
are really intellectually clear. I know people that suffer still are
maybe more intellectually clear. So it's not about intellectually
understanding this subject, it's about the one that thinks they
understand it or needs to understand it, or the concepts that have
been put in place in that supposedly separate self of falling away.
So Ramana Maharshi would say, and I know Roger and Remesh
would say this too, is that you use one concept to remove another
concept, and then you throw both concepts out. So it's actually
like a lot of teachings use the concepts just to remove the other
concept.
WIZARD: Well said.
LISA CAIRNS: I see it on Facebook a lot, so much. Like I'm not a
writer, I don't feel the urge to write about this, but there's so much
intellectual arguing about this through writing. Not that I think
that's a bad thing, because this is often how it starts. I'm not
judging and saying it's bad, it's just how it often starts. But it's not
the answer, the intellect at all. It's actually the shift from living in
the intellect and living in the idea of self, to that falling away, to
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