Conversations with Avant-garde Sages - The Wizard LLC

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Conversations with Avant-garde Sages TRIP: Very nice. Okay, I've got another tough one for you, darling [Laughs]. Another personal tougher for you. All right. You were a vegan, and you were an activist. LISA CAIRNS: Yes. TRIP: You were angry too, I guess, right? LISA CAIRNS: Yes. TRIP: And I'll probably lose some potential girlfriends here, but I haven't met, I've yet to meet a female vegan activist that wasn't a little bit angry. Now I married one, and then I bore children with another, okay. Now I pinned the mother to the kids down on her anger and I suggested that it wasn't helping her bring people like myself into the fold, into the cause of caring for animals when the whole scene was being put out there in anger. And her response was this, she said, "As long as I live in a world where my friends are killed and tortured, my anger is an appropriate response". What do you have to say about that? LISA CAIRNS: Well as long as her anger is there, as long as that dynamic is there that she believes that her friends are being killed and tortured, there's going to be great suffering. And I know this from personal experience, this is the way it went in my story was from a very young age I become a vegetarian when I was eight years old. And I actually remember the dynamic of what happened, was I began to see suffering out in the world. I actually (this is going to sound a bit funny), but I think that often with kids the ego starts like maybe about one or two, but I think it didn't start 'til a bit later with me, I was a bit of a slow developer, I know that sounds funny. But when I was about eight I began to recognize suffering, I began to recognize myself, like the ego began to really grow, and I began to perceive myself as separate from the world. And I remember this happening and others as doing something. And I remembered when that dynamic began to grow, and I could see suffering, I then began to get the thoughts that I needed to protect others from suffering. And I remember that 330
Conversations with Avant-garde Sages whole thought process happening, and becoming a vegetarian and deciding that I didn't want to hurt animals, and I soon became vegan after that when I was maybe 10. And I'm still a vegetarian, I don't have any intellectual reason for it, I've been a vegetarian since I was eight, and it's most probably habit, or just what you're used to, or it's just what's written, whatever answer you want to give depending on which level you're talking from. But it was great cause of suffering, and great rage developed in this story from having that perspective, that other people were hurting animals, other people were hurting other people. And really what was happening was suffering was growing in Lisa's story, and I was projecting it, and it was being projected out into the world. I was looking round at the world, and trying to stop the suffering out in the world. And really it was this, the character, the Lisa, was greatly suffering, an immense rage. That was another thing about the whole murderer, was one of the things that seemed to happen here in the waking up process was so much rage, uncontrollable rage to the point where my teacher at points had to pin me down because there was so much rage coming out, not just because of hurting other people, but hurting myself. Like rage, unbelievable rage. And when that was experienced here, that rage coming out, it was another thing that let go of judging other people's rage, it was like it was so extreme, that rage could have killed, that rage was just huge. It was a murderous rage. WIZARD: So do you think the root of this is the “I am the body notion” itself? LISA CAIRNS: Yes. It starts with I am the body, and then it develops from that. And as soon as you identify as I am the body, you've become a victim to life, and that's where most people I believe have this rage in them. Because as soon as you become the victim, this rage grows, and it's often covered in different ways, the ego defends it in different ways, but this rage of life happening to you, things happening that you don't want to happen, life not going your way, people not doing what you want, you having to behave in a certain way. 331
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With Anchor & Host, Trip Overholt
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WIZARD: Be still. Conversations wit
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TRIP: Thank you. Conversations with
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WIZARD: Yes. Conversations with Ava
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WIZARD: Is. Conversations with Avan
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