Conversations with Avant-garde Sages - The Wizard LLC

Conversations with Avant-garde Sages
I do thank you so much for joining us today. Now your method is
to focus aspirants on what is known for sure because it prepares
the way for grace to come in. But on the other hand, you would
counsel aspirants to live as unknowing innocence, so it seems to
me there’s a paradox there. Given that paradox, what are some of
the obvious things a person might investigate and know for sure
that would clear away the obstructions that allow for grace to come
in?
FRANCIS LUCILLE: Yes. Investigation, first of all, we have to
establish what we are, and what we are is the centrality of our
experience that which is always there with us, things we are always
with ourselves. Something that comes and goes out of our
experience cannot be the centrality of our experience, therefore
any perception, thought, or sensation, things that come and go, is
not the same centrality of our experience. That which remains as
the candidate for the centrality of our experience is this very
simple consciousness, whatever it is, that is hearing these words
right now. That's what we are, and that's not an object, that's not a
body, that's not a mind. Before we are a body or a mind we are
that, we are that, we are this presence hearing these words. And
whether this presence is also a body or a mind, that remains to be
seen, and the investigation is trying to answer the question based
upon my experience, not based upon hearsay.
How do I know that this consciousness which is hearing these
words right Now is limited in any fashion or form? For instance,
how do I know it was born? Do I remember the experience of the
birth of my consciousness? No. And if I don't, could somebody else
remember it? No, because only I am aware of my consciousness,
nobody else is. Therefore as far as I know I was never born, it
doesn't mean I was never born, you see. But it means that I have to
be agnostic in this regard, just as knowing if the consciousness
which is aware of Francis' thoughts, and the consciousness which
is aware of Trip's thoughts, or John's thoughts, are different
consciousnesses. If yes, what is the experience of the experiment
that establishes this fact? And if I go deeply into these questions, I
find that I don't know. I am not certain that consciousness is
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