Trends in Long-Term Care - U.S. Senate Special Committee on Aging

Trends in Long-Term Care - U.S. Senate Special Committee on Aging Trends in Long-Term Care - U.S. Senate Special Committee on Aging

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2952 I am sayong>inong>g it is a small community, and people ong>inong> Albany dealong>inong>g with this problem. I am not suggestong>inong>g it is ong>inong> any way based on anythong>inong>g to do with religious faith, but I am talkong>inong>g about the associations that are assumed, that simply because these people are members of the same religious group, and I submit that if I try to view it generously, as I said, if I try to view it generously, that is to me the basis for the department of health's misconception regardong>inong>g this network of ownership. Mr. HALAMANDARIS. Counsel, may I ong>inong>terrupt. Speakong>inong>g of generosity, the Senator has certaong>inong>ly extended his to you ong>inong> allowong>inong>g you to make these speeches contong>inong>ually, hour after hour. But the time is growong>inong>g late, and I would like to make one last request, and let the Senator recess the hearong>inong>g, because I know he has a plane to catch. Would you be kong>inong>d enough to supply us with a statement of your net worth, whatever it is, the fong>inong>ancial statement, ong>inong>dicatong>inong>g the holdong>inong>gs which you have? We have various lists supplied to us by the department of health, and they may also be ong>inong>accurate. Mr. LEWIN. Well, there is a question ong>inong> this regard. I don't thong>inong>k Dr. Bergman is at all concerned about concealong>inong>g anythong>inong>g. There is a matter of privacy ong>inong>volved. Simply to say to a witness, what I want to do is I want to get a statement of your net worth, at least strikes me as an issue that is questionable. Mr. HALAMANDARIS. We will do it on a confidential basis, and not prong>inong>t it ong>inong> the record. Mr. LEWIN. I will submit, if it is submitted on a confidential basis, and I have not discussed this with Dr. Bergman, it will have to be on a confidential basis, that limits that disclosure not to people that might be generously ong>inong>volved with the committee, but maybe directly to the chairman, and maybe directly to counsel, and no one else, because this is a matter of ong>inong>dividual privacy. He has been subject to a substantial amount of abuse ong>inong> the press, and I thong>inong>k hie is entitled to obtaong>inong> that privacy. Senator Moss. Well, Dr. Bergman, you have responded today, and answered a great many questions here that we have prepared, and I know you have not had much preparation, and you of course have submitted your books now, and we want to look at them as carefully as we can, and to get them ong>inong>terpreted. Would it be satisfactory for you to return on the 4th of February for a hearong>inong>g? Dr. BERGMAN. Mr. Senator, anytime you call me, I am ready. Senator Moss. Well, the 4th of February is about 2 weeks away. It is on a Tuesday. I was just lookong>inong>g at my book to see when I could get up here agaong>inong>., and I thong>inong>k I could do it on the 4th of February. Would that be satisfactory? Mr. LEWIN. Senator, I have to check my schedule, and I know I have a conference ong>inong> Washong>inong>gton at that time, and let me say that l)r. Bergman, as I thong>inong>k it is clear, has come here with the purpose of cooperatong>inong>g. I don't thong>inong>k lhe should be harassed by repeated trips to the committee.

2953 I thong>inong>k we can discuss a date, and he is prepared to come back and cooperate contong>inong>uously, but I thong>inong>k that each one of these appearances before the television lights, with this publicity, is a very substantial straong>inong> on his health, and I thong>inong>k the committee should take that ong>inong>to account. It is really not fair to say now you come, now you testify, you have gone through a list of nursong>inong>g homes. you have denied it, and now we want you to keep comong>inong>g back until we can dig up somethong>inong>g that may provide some basis for the rumormongerong>inong>g. Mr. I-IALAxMANDARls. That is not true, counsel. Senator Moss. You are makong>inong>g a speech agaong>inong>, and, of course, besides the time factor, we have not had the opportunity really to look at the books vet, which is somethong>inong>cg we would like to do, and I am willong>inong>g to try to accommodate I)r. Bergman to what is a convenient date for him, and we would try not to detaong>inong> him too long. A half a day maybe would be plenty. Mr. LEwIN-. I thong>inong>k that could be worked out between us. Senator Moss. Mr. Naftalis. Mr. NAFTALIS. Mr. Chairman, I should poong>inong>t out on the record that there are vast areas of questions of Dr. Bergman's activities, both ong>inong> connection with alleged political ong>inong>fluence of Dr. Bergman, ownership of nursong>inong>g homes, questions of records, and books which have not been supported ong>inong> any detail today. Indeed, I would suggest that we have heard a great deal of selfservong>inong>g statements from Dr. Bergman's lawyers. The chairman has been terribly courteous ong>inong> allowong>inong>g him to speak on behalf of his client, as well as statements of a self-servong>inong>g nature, and very little questionong>inong>g from anv of the other members of the panel, Representative Koch, Ml. Halamandaris, Mr. Edie, or any other members of the staff, and I would respectfully ask the chairman to give some consideration by the further questionong>inong>g today, ong>inong> addition to other questions at some future time. We are settong>inong>g a firm date, and directong>inong>g the witness to appear, and to be ong>inong>terrogated on these matters, directly and poong>inong>tedly required to answer-yes or no. Senator Moss. Well, we will set it for the 4th of February, and Dr. Bergrmall has ong>inong>dicated he would be willong>inong>g to come. We will attempt to be accommodatong>inong>g. My colleague, Mr. Koch, might have a question or two here, song>inong>ce he has come up this afternoon, and he mav not be able to be back on the 4th of February. Congressong>inong>an Kocir. I very much appreciate that, Senator. It is possible by virtue of my new assignment to the Appropriations Subcommittee I will not be here, so bear with me. The first one relates to this, Dr. Bergman, there are different degrees of ong>inong>terest. Bv that. I mean one can own real estate. one can be a licensee, one can be a vendor, and one can operate a nursong>inong>g home, and I wonder whether y ou would agree to provide the committee with a list which covers all of these aspects of ownership, vendor, supplyong>inong>g nursong>inong>g homes with various services, licensee aspect, and operation of the home ong>inong> your name, and ong>inong> the names of any of your blood relatives.

2952<br />

I am say<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>g it is a small community, and people <str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g> Albany deal<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>g<br />

with this problem.<br />

I am not suggest<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>g it is <str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g> any way based <strong>on</strong> anyth<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>g to do with<br />

religious faith, but I am talk<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>g about the associati<strong>on</strong>s that are assumed,<br />

that simply because these people are members of the same<br />

religious group, and I submit that if I try to view it generously, as I<br />

said, if I try to view it generously, that is to me the basis for the<br />

department of health's misc<strong>on</strong>cepti<strong>on</strong> regard<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>g this network of<br />

ownership.<br />

Mr. HALAMANDARIS. Counsel, may I <str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>terrupt.<br />

Speak<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>g of generosity, the Senator has certa<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>ly extended his to<br />

you <str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g> allow<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>g you to make these speeches c<strong>on</strong>t<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>ually, hour after<br />

hour. But the time is grow<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>g late, and I would like to make <strong>on</strong>e last<br />

request, and let the Senator recess the hear<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>g, because I know he has<br />

a plane to catch.<br />

Would you be k<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>d enough to supply us with a statement of your<br />

net worth, whatever it is, the f<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>ancial statement, <str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>dicat<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>g the hold<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>gs<br />

which you have?<br />

We have various lists supplied to us by the department of health,<br />

and they may also be <str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>accurate.<br />

Mr. LEWIN. Well, there is a questi<strong>on</strong> <str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g> this regard. I d<strong>on</strong>'t th<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>k<br />

Dr. Bergman is at all c<strong>on</strong>cerned about c<strong>on</strong>ceal<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>g anyth<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>g.<br />

There is a matter of privacy <str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>volved. Simply to say to a witness,<br />

what I want to do is I want to get a statement of your net worth, at<br />

least strikes me as an issue that is questi<strong>on</strong>able.<br />

Mr. HALAMANDARIS. We will do it <strong>on</strong> a c<strong>on</strong>fidential basis, and not<br />

pr<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>t it <str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g> the record.<br />

Mr. LEWIN. I will submit, if it is submitted <strong>on</strong> a c<strong>on</strong>fidential basis,<br />

and I have not discussed this with Dr. Bergman, it will have to be <strong>on</strong><br />

a c<strong>on</strong>fidential basis, that limits that disclosure not to people that might<br />

be generously <str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>volved with the committee, but maybe directly to the<br />

chairman, and maybe directly to counsel, and no <strong>on</strong>e else, because this<br />

is a matter of <str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>dividual privacy.<br />

He has been subject to a substantial amount of abuse <str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g> the press,<br />

and I th<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>k hie is entitled to obta<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g> that privacy.<br />

Senator Moss. Well, Dr. Bergman, you have resp<strong>on</strong>ded today, and<br />

answered a great many questi<strong>on</strong>s here that we have prepared, and I<br />

know you have not had much preparati<strong>on</strong>, and you of course have<br />

submitted your books now, and we want to look at them as carefully<br />

as we can, and to get them <str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>terpreted.<br />

Would it be satisfactory for you to return <strong>on</strong> the 4th of February<br />

for a hear<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>g?<br />

Dr. BERGMAN. Mr. Senator, anytime you call me, I am ready.<br />

Senator Moss. Well, the 4th of February is about 2 weeks away.<br />

It is <strong>on</strong> a Tuesday. I was just look<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>g at my book to see when I could<br />

get up here aga<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>., and I th<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>k I could do it <strong>on</strong> the 4th of February.<br />

Would that be satisfactory?<br />

Mr. LEWIN. Senator, I have to check my schedule, and I know I<br />

have a c<strong>on</strong>ference <str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g> Wash<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>gt<strong>on</strong> at that time, and let me say that<br />

l)r. Bergman, as I th<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>k it is clear, has come here with the purpose of<br />

cooperat<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>g.<br />

I d<strong>on</strong>'t th<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>k lhe should be harassed by repeated trips to the<br />

committee.

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