Trends in Long-Term Care - U.S. Senate Special Committee on Aging

Trends in Long-Term Care - U.S. Senate Special Committee on Aging Trends in Long-Term Care - U.S. Senate Special Committee on Aging

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2932 Mr. LEWIN. Mr. Chairman, just two prelimong>inong>ary matters-one is that Dr. Bergman would like to have a cup of water. Another prelimong>inong>ary matter, Mr. Chairman. relates to the testimony that this committee has heard before Dr. Bergman has taken the stand. Let me say first, that pursuant to the discussion we had this mornong>inong>g, and on that understandong>inong>g, the documents subpenaed by the committee, have been submitted to the committee ong>inong> the other room, and they are now ong>inong> the committee's custody, and they ale taken on the understandong>inong>g so that they are limited to the committee's purposes, notwithstandong>inong>g what Dr. Bergman said about any waivong>inong>g by Mr. Steong>inong> sittong>inong>g at the table; we do not waive any claim that I have made this mornong>inong>g regardong>inong>g the limited use of those documents, and to be used solely for the committee purposes. Second of all, Mr. Chairman. I would also like to make clear at this juncture, that we reserve the right, which I discussed ong>inong> your recess, to present evidence. and ong>inong>deed to seek to cross-examong>inong>e the very witnesses who testified here before this committee this mornong>inong>g, and heretofore. They have made a variety of statements regardong>inong>g the nursong>inong>g ong>inong>dustry ong>inong> general ong>inong> New York, which appear to us simply beong>inong>g various ways to pull the wool over the committee's eyes. Questions of alleged large charts of real estate transactions, which can be demonstrated conclusively, did not affect medicaid rates by one penny, and I thong>inong>k it can be demonstrated as well by any sophisticated real estate lawyer, that the very transaction which Mr. Steong>inong>'s commission drew on a chart, with many colors, and many diagrams, and many long>inong>es, are transactions that the real estate counsel ong>inong> refong>inong>ancong>inong>g, and ong>inong> fong>inong>ancong>inong>g mortgages go through every day, with regard to a song>inong>gle piece of property, and that is what happened with regard to the Willoughby property. It was not effective on medicare rates. That is just illustrative of a whole series of allegations made before this committee, which I thong>inong>k can be demonstrated to be conclusively erroneous, which of course we cannot demonstrate to you right on the spot. There are some thong>inong>gs which we can demonstrate on the spot, and when we heard the allegations made regardong>inong>g the Towers Nursong>inong>g Home, we called down today various employees, former employees of the Towers Nursong>inong>g Home who have no relation whatever to Dr. Bergman ong>inong> any way, family or any other way, but who are simply employees, and who could attest firsthand to what happened ong>inong> the Towers Nursong>inong>g Home, that there was good care of the patients, substantial consideration shown to them, that the various horror stories you have heard ong>inong> terms of general allegations of these witnesses, are simply not true. Indeed, I submit that song>inong>ce we have some witnesses here today ong>inong> that regard, we should have an opportunity to present their testimony, when the committee has heard from Dr. Bergman. Senator Moss. Thank you, Mr. Lewong>inong>. If you wish to have any expert witness examong>inong>e the transcript, and present the viewpoong>inong>t on the material that has come before us, and

2933 submit it, and we will see that it is prong>inong>ted ong>inong> the record at that poong>inong>t, so that the record will speak for itself. Now. I doubt that we would have time, to hear additional witnesses today, but I will be glad either to accept their written testimony, which could be notarized, or we will have a fiirther hearong>inong>g ong>inong> which they will be entitled to speak. We just want the record to say what the facts are. Mr. LEWIN. I thong>inong>k I would like to poong>inong>t out agaong>inong> that this committee sits ong>inong> the maybe unenviable position of beong>inong>g judge at the present, a judge to form public opong>inong>ion, because Dr. Bergman has been unjustly criticized ong>inong> the press. For that reason, I thong>inong>k it is appropriate if these various allegations that were made here today, with the various media present, the television cameras present, the rebuttal witnesses we have on the very subject, ong>inong>deed on the subject of this alleged breakdown of a boiler, ong>inong> February of 1971, where I thong>inong>k the witness said Dr. Bergman was doong>inong>g somethong>inong>g, whatever a reasonable owner could be expected to do ong>inong> those circumstances, and notwithstandong>inong>g that-that is, Congressman Koch's list of horribles-I thong>inong>k those witnesses should be heard from today, so that we are not put ong>inong> a position agaong>inong> where one side of the story is told. That is the way it has been song>inong>ce the ong>inong>ception of this entire program by Mr. Steong>inong> and his commission. Mr. SEIDMAN. If I may add, Mr. Chairman, that a State supreme court justice of the State of New York, ong>inong> an opong>inong>ion ong>inong> a decision handed down yesterday, attacked the very type of raw, misleadong>inong>g, 4nd one-sided ong>inong>formation, as may have occurred here today by way of analyzong>inong>g Mr. Steong>inong>'s conduct, and even suggested that a further lo k at that behavior might ong>inong>dicate that Mr. Steong>inong> has committed a cr e ong>inong> violation of certaong>inong> civil rights laws that exist under our St te law here ong>inong> New York. nator Moss. Well, it seems to me you gentlemen want to protest ver loudly, as to what the facts are, and what they mean, and to imp1gn rather improper motives, rather than gettong>inong>g down to the trut I a n not prejudiced one way or the other, and I am tryong>inong>g to get a rec rd together, that I can look at, and my colleagues can look at, to de ide what is the truth, and I would like to have Dr. Bergman tell n e what the truth is. Mr. SEIDMAN. However, the stagong>inong>g of this procedure was not arranged by Dr. Bergman, and there was no ong>inong>vitation with legal and proper procedures, whereby there was a proper request of the ong>inong>formation that was beong>inong>g sought ong>inong> this arena, with all sorts of klieg lights, television, and other scenery. Senator Moss. Well, you- Mr. SEIDBMAN. However, we are prepared to proceed, Mr. Chairman. Senator Moss. This is a hearong>inong>g of a ong>Senateong> committee. This is not a court trial. You can go ahead, Dr. Bergman. STATEMENT OF DR. BERNARD BERGMAN Dr. BERGMAN. Distong>inong>guished Chairman, Congressman Koch, Assemblyman Steong>inong>, and members of the committee. 45-716 0 - 75 - 5

2933<br />

submit it, and we will see that it is pr<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>ted <str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g> the record at that po<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>t,<br />

so that the record will speak for itself.<br />

Now. I doubt that we would have time, to hear additi<strong>on</strong>al witnesses<br />

today, but I will be glad either to accept their written testim<strong>on</strong>y,<br />

which could be notarized, or we will have a fiirther hear<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>g <str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g> which<br />

they will be entitled to speak.<br />

We just want the record to say what the facts are.<br />

Mr. LEWIN. I th<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>k I would like to po<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>t out aga<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g> that this committee<br />

sits <str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g> the maybe unenviable positi<strong>on</strong> of be<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>g judge at the<br />

present, a judge to form public op<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>i<strong>on</strong>, because Dr. Bergman has<br />

been unjustly criticized <str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g> the press. For that reas<strong>on</strong>, I th<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>k it<br />

is appropriate if these various allegati<strong>on</strong>s that were made here today,<br />

with the various media present, the televisi<strong>on</strong> cameras present, the<br />

rebuttal witnesses we have <strong>on</strong> the very subject, <str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>deed <strong>on</strong> the subject<br />

of this alleged breakdown of a boiler, <str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g> February of 1971, where I<br />

th<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>k the witness said Dr. Bergman was do<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>g someth<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>g, whatever<br />

a reas<strong>on</strong>able owner could be expected to do <str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g> those circumstances,<br />

and notwithstand<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>g that-that is, C<strong>on</strong>gressman Koch's list of horribles-I<br />

th<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>k those witnesses should be heard from today, so that<br />

we are not put <str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g> a positi<strong>on</strong> aga<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g> where <strong>on</strong>e side of the story is told.<br />

That is the way it has been s<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>ce the <str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>cepti<strong>on</strong> of this entire program<br />

by Mr. Ste<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g> and his commissi<strong>on</strong>.<br />

Mr. SEIDMAN. If I may add, Mr. Chairman, that a State supreme<br />

court justice of the State of New York, <str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g> an op<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>i<strong>on</strong> <str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g> a decisi<strong>on</strong><br />

handed down yesterday, attacked the very type of raw, mislead<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>g,<br />

4nd <strong>on</strong>e-sided <str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>formati<strong>on</strong>, as may have occurred here today by way<br />

of analyz<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>g Mr. Ste<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>'s c<strong>on</strong>duct, and even suggested that a further<br />

lo k at that behavior might <str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>dicate that Mr. Ste<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g> has committed a<br />

cr e <str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g> violati<strong>on</strong> of certa<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g> civil rights laws that exist under our<br />

St te law here <str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g> New York.<br />

nator Moss. Well, it seems to me you gentlemen want to protest<br />

ver loudly, as to what the facts are, and what they mean, and to<br />

imp1gn rather improper motives, rather than gett<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>g down to the<br />

trut<br />

I a n not prejudiced <strong>on</strong>e way or the other, and I am try<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>g to get<br />

a rec rd together, that I can look at, and my colleagues can look at,<br />

to de ide what is the truth, and I would like to have Dr. Bergman<br />

tell n e what the truth is.<br />

Mr. SEIDMAN. However, the stag<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>g of this procedure was not arranged<br />

by Dr. Bergman, and there was no <str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>vitati<strong>on</strong> with legal and<br />

proper procedures, whereby there was a proper request of the <str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>formati<strong>on</strong><br />

that was be<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>g sought <str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g> this arena, with all sorts of klieg lights,<br />

televisi<strong>on</strong>, and other scenery.<br />

Senator Moss. Well, you-<br />

Mr. SEIDBMAN. However, we are prepared to proceed, Mr. Chairman.<br />

Senator Moss. This is a hear<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>g of a <str<strong>on</strong>g>Senate</str<strong>on</strong>g> committee. This is not a<br />

court trial. You can go ahead, Dr. Bergman.<br />

STATEMENT OF DR. BERNARD BERGMAN<br />

Dr. BERGMAN. Dist<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>guished Chairman, C<strong>on</strong>gressman Koch, Assemblyman<br />

Ste<str<strong>on</strong>g>in</str<strong>on</strong>g>, and members of the committee.<br />

45-716 0 - 75 - 5

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