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3. With al‐Nazzam
Al‐Nazzam maintained that the inhabitants of the Garden would be not immortal in it, and that
they would certainly die. He met with Hisham and said to him:
‐Surely the inhabitants of the Garden will not stay in it forever. For they will stay just as Allah
does. It is impossible for them to be so. Hisham gave him a decisive argument, saying:
‐The inhabitants of the Garden will survive through the One Who makes them stay alive, and Allah
survives through none makes Him remain alive. Al‐Nazzam insisted on his thought, saying: ‐It is
impossible for them to stay forever Hisham: Into what will they turn? Al‐Nazzam: Sluggishness will
befall them. Hisham: Have you heard that there is in the Garden what souls yearn? Al‐Nazzam:
Yes.
So if they yearn and ask their Lord to (let them) stay forever? Al‐Nazzam: Surely Allah will not
inspire them. Hisham: If a man from among the inhabitants of the Garden stretched out his hand
to a fruit on a tree to take it, and the tree hanged down to him, then he happened to turn around
and looked at another fruit of it and stretched out his hand to take it, but sluggishness befell him;
and his hands fastened to two trees; and the two trees
[1] Al‐Fusool al‐Mukhtara, vol. 1, pp. 24‐25. This debate has been briefly mentioned in the book
'Uyun al‐Akhbar, vol. 2, p. 15. raised high, and he was crucified. Have you heard that someone is
crucified in the Garden?[1] Al‐Nazzam: This is impossible.
Hisham: What you have said is more impossible than it, i.e., people were created, were caused to
enter the Garden, and die therein. Al‐Nazzam went away deserted; he had no proof of that in
which he believed.
4. With Darar al‐Dabbi Darar al‐Dabbi was among those who denied the Imamate. He met with
Hisham, and he asked him: ‐Do you say that Allah is just and does not wrong? ‐Yes. ‐If Allah
ordered the crippled to walk and to struggle in His way, if He ordered the blind to read the Qur’an
and books, then do you think that He was just or unjust? ‐Allah does not do that.
‐We have come to know that He does not do that, but for argument and dispute, if He did that,
was He not unjust in His deed, and He required him to perform a duty which he could not
perform? ‐If He did that, then He would be unjust. ‐Tell me about Allah, the Great and Almighty:
Has He charged mankind with one religion over which there is no difference, and He does not
accept (it) from them unless they perform it just as He has charged them with it? ‐Yes.
‐Has He given them a proof of the existence of that religion or has He charged with something of
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