ambassador rudolf v. perina - Association for Diplomatic Studies and ...
ambassador rudolf v. perina - Association for Diplomatic Studies and ...
ambassador rudolf v. perina - Association for Diplomatic Studies and ...
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I remember Holbrooke’s first visit to Belgrade. He stayed at the Ambassador’s residence,<br />
where I was by that time living. He came with Bob Frasure <strong>and</strong> it was the first of about<br />
20 visits by Holbrooke during my time, though I did not keep exact count. At least it<br />
seemed like 20, if not more. It was a get-acquainted session but basically he hit it off with<br />
Milosevic. Then with each subsequent visit he got more <strong>and</strong> more involved. He started<br />
coming out with the interagency team he put together that included NSC, DOD <strong>and</strong> JCS<br />
reps. The JCS rep was a fellow named Wes Clark, who at the time I think was a one star<br />
general. It was this group of about a half dozen people, including Holbrooke, Bob<br />
Frasure, Chris Hill, Wes Clark as the JCS rep <strong>and</strong> an OSD rep, that <strong>for</strong>med the key<br />
negotiating team.<br />
This group changed shortly thereafter, however, because of the tragic road accident<br />
outside Sarajevo in which Bob Frasure, the NSC rep Nelson Drew, <strong>and</strong> the DOD rep<br />
Joseph Kruzel were killed. This happened on August 19, 1995. The whole delegation was<br />
traveling from Belgrade to Sarajevo <strong>and</strong> had been at my house <strong>for</strong> dinner the night<br />
be<strong>for</strong>e. Bob Frasure made his last phone call to his wife from our residence. It was an<br />
enormous tragedy. My whole family had gotten to know Bob well from his many<br />
previous visits when he stayed with us. We were all devastated, including our daughters.<br />
I subsequently flew back to Washington <strong>for</strong> the memorial service <strong>and</strong> funeral. I<br />
remember telephoning Milosevic that Saturday afternoon to tell him about the accident. I<br />
left word with his assistant, <strong>and</strong> Milosevic called back in about two minutes. He did<br />
sound genuinely shocked by the news. He had gotten to know Bob well <strong>and</strong> I think liked<br />
him. He later invited Bob’s wife <strong>and</strong> daughters to visit Belgrade <strong>and</strong> see where Bob had<br />
spent his last days. Bob was replaced on the delegation by Chris Hill, who then came on<br />
all of Holbrooke’s subsequent visits.<br />
Q: What was Holbrooke’s initial impression of Milosevic <strong>and</strong> how did the talks proceed?<br />
PERINA: Holbrooke had been briefed on Milosevic by Bob Frasure <strong>and</strong> me <strong>and</strong> knew a<br />
little of what to expect. I think both Milosevic <strong>and</strong> Holbrooke found each other<br />
interesting as personalities <strong>and</strong> had an incentive to engage one another. Milosevic saw a<br />
deal with the U.S. as the path to lifting sanctions <strong>and</strong> gaining respectability in the<br />
international community, <strong>and</strong> Holbrooke rightly saw Milosevic as the key person to<br />
resolving the Bosnian conflict. Holbrooke was the right person <strong>for</strong> dealing with<br />
Milosevic. For one thing, he could simply outlast Milosevic. These negotiating sessions<br />
sometimes went late into the night, sometimes until three o'clock in the morning <strong>and</strong> start<br />
again at six o'clock. I think one session went all night. Holbrooke really had the energy to<br />
do this. I think Holbrooke also found Milosevic an interesting person. You could engage<br />
with him more easily than with (Bosnian President) Izetbegovic or (Croatian President)<br />
Tudjman. For one thing, he spoke English so well. You did not need the <strong>for</strong>mality of<br />
interpreters. It makes a big difference in discussions. Of course, that does not mean<br />
Holbrooke liked Milosevic. I think we all recognized that this was an unsavory man with<br />
a lot of blood on his h<strong>and</strong>s. Perhaps because of this, there was a real challenge in dealing<br />
with him.<br />
Q: Were you getting much out of Sarajevo <strong>and</strong> what was happening there?<br />
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