ambassador rudolf v. perina - Association for Diplomatic Studies and ...

I remember Holbrooke’s first visit to Belgrade. He stayed at the Ambassador’s residence,
where I was by that time living. He came with Bob Frasure and it was the first of about
20 visits by Holbrooke during my time, though I did not keep exact count. At least it
seemed like 20, if not more. It was a get-acquainted session but basically he hit it off with
Milosevic. Then with each subsequent visit he got more and more involved. He started
coming out with the interagency team he put together that included NSC, DOD and JCS
reps. The JCS rep was a fellow named Wes Clark, who at the time I think was a one star
general. It was this group of about a half dozen people, including Holbrooke, Bob
Frasure, Chris Hill, Wes Clark as the JCS rep and an OSD rep, that formed the key
negotiating team.
This group changed shortly thereafter, however, because of the tragic road accident
outside Sarajevo in which Bob Frasure, the NSC rep Nelson Drew, and the DOD rep
Joseph Kruzel were killed. This happened on August 19, 1995. The whole delegation was
traveling from Belgrade to Sarajevo and had been at my house for dinner the night
before. Bob Frasure made his last phone call to his wife from our residence. It was an
enormous tragedy. My whole family had gotten to know Bob well from his many
previous visits when he stayed with us. We were all devastated, including our daughters.
I subsequently flew back to Washington for the memorial service and funeral. I
remember telephoning Milosevic that Saturday afternoon to tell him about the accident. I
left word with his assistant, and Milosevic called back in about two minutes. He did
sound genuinely shocked by the news. He had gotten to know Bob well and I think liked
him. He later invited Bob’s wife and daughters to visit Belgrade and see where Bob had
spent his last days. Bob was replaced on the delegation by Chris Hill, who then came on
all of Holbrooke’s subsequent visits.
Q: What was Holbrooke’s initial impression of Milosevic and how did the talks proceed?
PERINA: Holbrooke had been briefed on Milosevic by Bob Frasure and me and knew a
little of what to expect. I think both Milosevic and Holbrooke found each other
interesting as personalities and had an incentive to engage one another. Milosevic saw a
deal with the U.S. as the path to lifting sanctions and gaining respectability in the
international community, and Holbrooke rightly saw Milosevic as the key person to
resolving the Bosnian conflict. Holbrooke was the right person for dealing with
Milosevic. For one thing, he could simply outlast Milosevic. These negotiating sessions
sometimes went late into the night, sometimes until three o'clock in the morning and start
again at six o'clock. I think one session went all night. Holbrooke really had the energy to
do this. I think Holbrooke also found Milosevic an interesting person. You could engage
with him more easily than with (Bosnian President) Izetbegovic or (Croatian President)
Tudjman. For one thing, he spoke English so well. You did not need the formality of
interpreters. It makes a big difference in discussions. Of course, that does not mean
Holbrooke liked Milosevic. I think we all recognized that this was an unsavory man with
a lot of blood on his hands. Perhaps because of this, there was a real challenge in dealing
with him.
Q: Were you getting much out of Sarajevo and what was happening there?
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