The International Comanche Society - Pilot und Flugzeug Online

SEPTEMBER 2006 VOLUME 33, NO. 9 

The Official Membership Publication of 

The International 

Comanche Society

The Comanche Flyer 

is the official monthly member 

publication of the 

International Comanche Society 

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Bethany, OK 73008 

Tel: (405) 491-0321 

Fax: (405) 491-0325 

www.comancheflyer.com 

ICS President 

Lawrence Paratz 

Ph: + 61-3-9817-1222 

E-mail: LParatz@bigpond.com 

Managing Editor 

Kim Blonigen 

E-mail: kblonigen@cox.net 

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The Comanche Flyer is available to members; 

the $25 annual subscription rate is included 

in the Society’s Annual Membership dues in 

US funds below. 

USA, Canada & Mexico 

$63 per year 

UK, Europe, Asia & Africa 

$85 per year 

All other Countries Incl. Australia 

$78 per year 

Cover Photo 

1964 Turbo PA30 owned by 

Jan Brill of Straubing Germany 

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ISSN 08994223 

Volume 33, No. 9 • September 2006 

www.comancheflyer.com 

Publlished By the IInternational CComanche SSociety,, Inc. 

CONTENTS 

2 Letter From The President 

A New ICS Board and the 

Issues We All Face 

Lawrence Paratz 

4 

Cover Story: Comanche Spirit 

Learning New Languages at the Age of 40 – 

The Globetrotter Twin Comanche 

Jan Brill 

10 2005-2006 ICS Board of Directors 

& Tribe Representatives 

10 2005-2006 ICS Standing 

Committees & Chairpersons 

11 CFF-Approved CFIs 

12 

Technically Speaking 

Upgrading Supplemental Oxygen 

Will Lighten Your Load 

Chris Burns 

14 Online Intelligence — 

Alternator Problems 

18 

Pilot Pointers 

It Should Not Happen To You — 

Comanche Accidents for 

June 2006 and a Case 

Omri Talmon 

22 Flight Into O’Hare Wasn’t Hairy at All Charlie Littwin 

24 

From the Logbook 

What I Did on my Summer Vacation LeWayne Garrison 

31 From the Tribe Chiefs 

37 Shoulder Harness Program 

38 

Fly-In Reports 

The South Central Tribe’s 

Palo Duro Extravaganza 

Dick Brown 

41 Mid-States and North Central 

Tribes Enjoy House on the Rock 

Barb Beil 

42 Southwest Tribe Reeps Reno’s 

Offerings and Welcome New Board 

Peggy Harmon 

44 

Featured Fly-In 

North Central Tribe Gains Knowledge and 

Camaraderie at Maintenance Seminar Fly-In 

Bill Schnauffer 

46 Comanche Classified 

47 Advertiser’s Index 

SEPTEMBER 2006 Comanche Flyer • 1

Letter From The President 

A New ICS Board 

and the Issues 

We All Face 

Before getting into this first column as ICS President, I 

would like to acknowledge the work of Karl Hipp and 

the outgoing board. They have done a fine job and 

made hard decisions. General aviation is not getting any 

easier anywhere in the world, and events are rapidly and 

possibly permanently driving fuel prices even higher 

(which is sure not helping). 

So managing your Society and making sure it supports 

Comanches into the future is now much more challenging 

than in the easy days of cheap fuel and booming general 

aviation. Like everything else, we only get out what we put 

in. So don’t stand back and criticize, but pitch in. If the 

Society has a shortcoming, don’t rub it in our faces – help 

us to address it. And please remember the Society has all 

the same cost pressures that impact the rest of us. 

And to acknowledge that the ICS has entered a new phase, 

and having said that, if we all accept some new realities that 

are impacting aviation, then there’s plenty of great flying 

and times to be had. The role of the ICS is critically important. 

Nurture it, support it, and ensure that you and every Comanche 

owner you know are members. It’s in your best interests. 

As I am writing this, the Australian Convention is coming 

up fast. This is a key event in the ICS world, but not all ICS 

members are attending this convention, or even attend 

Conventions at all. Attendance has been around 200 at recent 

Conventions – or about one for every 15 ICS members, in 

round terms. And looking back to larger conventions at a 

time when the number of Comanches was higher, as well as 

the ICS membership, the ratio hasn’t changed all that much. 

Perhaps it peaked at around one for 10. 

So that leaves no doubt that many ICS members are part 

of ICS for a wide range of reasons. For some it’s the local flyins; 

for others, the Flyer; some may be involved for the technical 

support resources; for others, it’s the chance to shoot 

the breeze and talk airplanes; and it may even be the collective 

strength and ability to influence issues impacting 

our operations that counts. 

The ICS is all of these. It doesn’t mean that each of us 

rate these things the same – but they are all components 

which need to be matched to the needs and aspirations of 

the membership. It’s a bit like a smorgasbord. You don’t 

have to eat some of every dish to be satisfied. Rather as long 

as there is a range of things you like, the way you like, at 

the right value – you are satisfied. 

That’s pretty much the way Dave Fitzgerald, your new vice 

president, and I see the ICS. It’s not about debating which 

services are the most important – it’s about having the right 

mix to serve your needs, alongside your fellow members. 

And not all members are the same. Some see swinging a 

wrench as an automatic part of aircraft ownership; others 

do not. Some have long and illustrious aviation backgrounds 

covering a wide range of experience; others are stepping up 

to retractable and constant speed for the first time. But all 

are members. 

Your board will use two tests as they think about the things 

you have entrusted to us. How does this work for current 

members? And how does this work for future members? 

You might ask – Why worry about future members? Can’t 

they look after themselves? 

My response would be that the next person to own your 

Comanche is very important to you. Our goal should be 

that demand for our aircraft should always be there – so you 

get full value when it’s time to move on. This means that the 

Comanche needs to remain an attractive possession – 

desirable, affordable, accessible and saleable. 

This is not as straight forward as it was. There is of course 

the obvious impact of rising fuel prices worldwide, but certainly 

a major shock in the United States. While it’s still 

pretty true that the cheapest thing you can put in an aircraft 

is fuel, the impact on sentiment cannot be ignored and markets 

are generally flat and negative. Once again, lots of good secondhand 

airplanes seem to be getting exported from the United 

States, which is always an indicator of sentiment in that market. 

But there is another series of issues that cannot be ignored. 

I recently visited Sun ’n Fun and found that the sellers of new 

generation aircraft were generally upbeat and reporting good 

business. I expect Cessna will have unveiled their “Cirrus 

Killer” by now. I had the pleasure of flying some of the new 

products, including the Cirrus and DA-42 Twinstar. I also 

talked with the sales folk at every stand about who’s buying. 

I was left with two key thoughts: 

First, the people buying these aircraft are reportedly 

quite different to the current owner population. They often 

2 • Comanche Flyer SEPTEMBER 2006

haven’t worked their way up the fleet from trainer to fixedgear, 

four-seater to complex aircraft, often in many little 

steps over many years. Rather they have come to aviation 

in mid-life, and have a strong utility view of it. They buy new, 

and they buy “the best” straight up. The top models sell 

better than the base models. 

And so the product is being tailored to this market. Features, 

fitout and finesse all rate highly. You simply can’t sell a cell 

phone without countless features, even though most are not 

used downstream by the customer. But it’s the packaging 

and inclusion of features that sells, not the basic call function. 

Likewise, this market is buying airplanes that look and 

feel like cell phones or PCs – for them it’s a familiar environment. 

You can even get an airplane with a remote to control it! 

This is very important to us. It means that the future of 

our aircraft has to come from it having a desirability of its 

own – it will not have the sleek finish of the new plastic airframes, 

and few will be fitted out with an integrated and 

ergonomic glass flight environment. 

So our Comanches have to be classy – seen as the “real deal;” 

aircraft flown and desired by aviators. They also have to be 

affordable to operate and capable of undertaking a wide range 

of missions – from the local scenic flights to flexible and 

efficient cross-country hauls in a range of IFR conditions. 

This then is one of the key responsibilities of ICS, and by 

the way the reason that any Comanche owner who is not a 

member just isn’t doing themselves a favour. 

Secondly, our aircraft may be quite confronting to a generation 

brought up in the current crop of certified aircraft just because 

of their underlying complexity of operation. The Twinstar made 

an impression on me. The engines basically had simple controls 

– Fuel on/off/xfeed, one engine on/off switch, one engine test 

switch, one power lever … and a key starter. That’s about it. 

All the rest is hidden and safely managed by the aircraft. 

Compare that to our twins. To keep the engines happy, you 

need to correctly manage the following controls – throttle, 

propeller, mixture, cowl flap, alternate air, electric fuel pump, 

magnetos, mechanical fuel selector, tip tank electrical solenoid 

… and the starter. So there are over 20 items in the 

cockpit which have to be set, understood and managed for 

correct engine operation. And I have not included the numerous 

gauges to monitor - RPM, MAP, EGT, CHT, FF, fuel quantity, 

oil pressure and oil temperature. Perhaps, I should have 

said “almost 40 items” to manage and understand. 

Now we are all comfortable with that level of complexity, 

and for many, mastering that is part of the appeal. But I 

can’t help thinking that this may be a barrier for the current 

crop of buyers. In fact, will they see a Comanche as an 

upgrade or not? 

To create this long term value, we need to make and reinforce 

our aircraft as an “aspiration” possession – having their own 

mystique, own appeal, and drawing looks and comments on 

the ramp. Old beaters just won’t do it – they will be perceived 

as complex and unsafe. 

So we all have responsibilities in this – the ICS and its 

members. 

The ICS team is going to work on the big issues – the FAA 

and continuing airworthiness, the Flyer, the technical support 

to members and ensuring the preservation of the many lifetimes 

of accumulated Comanche knowledge. 

You need to work on the small things – keeping your aircraft 

truly airworthy, making sure it has shoulder harnesses, keeping 

yourself fit and current, and flying the aircraft actively. 

Together there’s a great outlook for many happy years of 

personal aviation ahead. 

Regards, 

Lawrence 

Comanche Flyer Submission Guidelines 

All members are encouraged to submit articles for publication in the Comanche Flyer. If you have an article about 

a maintenance event, trip, piloting technique, or anything else pertinent to Comanche ownership, please share it with 

your fellow members. 

For those with access to the Internet, please submit the article via e-mail, preferably in Microsoft Word. You may 

also include the article in the body of your e-mail message. Include your full name, as you would like it published, and 

your ICS number. 

Please attach digital pictures, if applicable, in jpeg format. For best results, use the highest resolution setting your 

camera will allow. Photo files under 500 kb in size typically do not reproduce well. 

Send to: 

Kim Blonigen, Managing Editor at kblonigen@cox.net 

Articles and photos may also be sent via U.S. Mail to: 

Kim Blonigen 

2031 South Beech • Wichita, KS 67207 

Although submissions are reviewed for technical accuracy, the information in this magazine is meant for reference 

only. Any modifications, alterations, or major repairs to U.S. aircraft require FAA-approved data as a basis for beginning 

work, and as such should not be based solely on information contained in this magazine. The International 

Comanche Society does not endorse any piloting adverse to published FAA regulations. 

Submissions are subject to editing and revision unless specifically requested to be published as submitted. The right 

is reserved to publish or not, any submission. 

Deadline for all submissions is the 20th of the month, approximately 40 days prior to month of publication. 


C O M A N C H E

Spirit 

Cover Story: Comanche Spirit 

Learning New Languages at the Age of 40 – 

The Globetrotter 

Twin Comanche 

by Jan Brill, ICS #14831 

Seriously – how many of my fellow 

tribesmen have logged a landing 

at Tehran Mehrabad International 

(OIII) with a Twin Comanche? Or how 

about Phnom Penh in Cambodia? 

N7311Y used to be a country girl. 

Dutifully flying for the University of 

Pennsylvania initially, doing atmospheric 

research, later serving with Weather 

Modifications Inc., a Fargo, N.D. based 

cloud seeding company. 

That was – until I was shopping for 

a Twin. 

At the time I had no idea what I was 

looking for. I used to work for a Swiss 

Investment Bank in New York City. 

Having owned a valiant Grumman Tiger 

(AA5B) for a few years in Zurich, 

Switzerland I had to fly my trusted single 

engine non-turbo, fixed-prop 180 HP 

airplane across the North Atlantic when 

� Grateful for the improvements and 

maintenance, N7311Y served me well 

while living in New York City. 

moving to New York. That would be a 

story of its own, but it was somewhere 

on an IFR flight plan on top of the 

12,000 foot icecap in Greenland when 

I suddenly knew: Darn! I want a twin! 

Parting with my beloved Tiger came 

first. An airplane that served me well for 

many years and even carried me across 

the North Atlantic and all the way 

around the United States from Nantucket 

to New Orleans to San Francisco and 

back to the East Coast – a plane like 

this you don’t sell light-hearted. So 

rather than putting her on the market, 

I searched for a new home. I found one, 

the price was right and the deal was 

closed within days. 

Continued on Page 6 

� After many months of searching, finally in icy North Dakota a clean Turbo PA30 was 

found. Here N7311Y at her new home close to New York City, still in cold temps.

Now came the search for a twin. Even 

living in the Big Apple I was easily able 

to afford the frugal Grumman. A twin 

would eat my lunch, and it did. But 

what should I get? Looking at my 

budget an Apache came to mind, a Beech 

Travellair maybe or even a run-down 

tuna tank 310. I had no illusions that 

whatever I saved in purchase costs would 

have to be paid back in maintenance 

twofold. But I wanted a twin! 

There was the Grumman Cougar – 

sleek, modern, easy to fly, but not cheap. 

And then there was the Twin Comanche... 

Working in a number-crunching environment 

around traders and analysts, 

it didn’t take me long to find out that 

� The flight of a lifetime! Mount Everest on a 

VFR flight from Kathmandu in Nepal. 

the Turbo Twin Co was a class of its 

own when it came to performance, load 

carrying capability and operating costs: 

It’s giving you Bonanza-like fuel economy 

and speed at twin engine safety 

(except during takeoff). It was my dream! 

But I wasn’t the only person reaching 

that conclusion, so prices for turbo 

PA30s were high – too high for me. 

Then 9/11 happened and living right 

in Midtown Manhattan the attack put 

a hold on many of my plans – as it did 

for so many others. 

It wasn’t until Spring 2002 that I was 

seriously in the market again, when I 

found two Turbo Twin Co’s for sale in 

Fargo, N.D. 

The biggest problem I had so far while 

shopping for a twin wasn’t so much 

the run-down beaters my budget dictated 

me, but rather the very peculiar 

attitude of some sellers. Not returning 

calls or only reading the first half of 

my e-mailed questions were big nonos 

when it came to doing business 

with someone. 

Things were different with the Fargo 

Company. Having upgraded most of their 

cloud-seeding ships to turboprops or 

cabin-class twins, they were getting rid 

of their last few PA30s, after operating 

more than 20 of them over the years. 

They replied to my e-mails and returned 

calls! From the first contact, I knew I 

could do business with these people. 

Scratching together my last pennies 

and negotiating the asking price down 

to my best ability, we finally made a 

deal. From the two Turbo Twin Co’s they 

had for sale, I wanted N7311Y – the older 

one (1964) but the clean one without 

STOL or other options I would not have 

chosen for my type of operations. 

A pre-buy was arranged, the price was 

lowered again and the deal was closed. 

Being an FBO and flight school, the 

Fargo Company had very experienced 

Twin Co instructors available so my 

checkout was no problem. 


� Versatility: Taking off from 

small grass strips or flying across 

the globe. The PA30 can do it all!


� Sharing a weekend trip with friends 

in the PA30 (Jan is second from right). 

The seven-plus hours I acquired for 

my ME-CPL a few years earlier only 

provided the most basic set of skills. A 

thorough checkout was required. And 

thorough it was. I spent several days 

up in ice cold North Dakota, not only 

flying the airplane but also taking it 

apart and getting to know its quirks 

and particularities. 

Of course the first annual I went 

through in New York was a nightmare. 

Not as bad as I expected, but still rather 

horrible. So the twin did eat my lunch – 

and then some! But it served me well 

for two more years in New York, flying 

about 100 hours per year for business 

and pleasure, even leaving some room in 

the maintenance budget for improvements 

(with significant “owner assistance”) 

– a modern panel, a new basic 

interior, Webco-Nacelle-Tanks, an RNAV- 

Approved Approach GPS (cheap, cheap 

– KLN89B) and an alternator to replace 

the fading generator on the left. 

It wasn’t until a connecting rod for 

the right-hand throttle broke (just after 

departure from Newark on my way to 

my homebase (KFRG) at 500 feet over 

the ice-cold New York harbor) that I 

fully appreciated that I had a twin! 

The remaining engine safely pulled me 

and my sister up to a safe altitude (sure, 

we were light and it was cold!) and 

propelled us though the January night 

to a safe and uneventful landing at 

Farmingdale Republic Field (KFRG). 

That would have been very different 

in my Tiger! 

In early 2004, I decided for a rather 

drastic career-change. When the owner 

and founder of one of Germany’s most 

prominent general aviation magazine 

suddenly died in 2003, the heirs were 

looking for a successor. Having worked 

� N7311Y in its new environment: Europe. Seen here at the historic airport of Berlin 

Tempelhof, site of the legendary Berlin Airlift of 1948/49. 

with this charismatic gentleman before, 

I was somehow on their shortlist. 

After some serious haggling with 

myself, I decided to quit my bank job 

and plunge into the life as managing 

editor in a small aviation publishing 

company in Europe. The magazine we 

publish can best be described as a 

German language blend between 

Aviation Consumer and IFR-Magazine. 

Besides that, we host seminars, organize 

trips and publish various other guides 

and media. 

The company has a 25-year track 

record of fiercely defending pilots and 

general aviation interests in the European 

aviation mess and a strong and loyal 

base of subscribers prove the case. 

Over the years the company always 

operated regular general aviation airplanes 

for its purposes, setting it apart 

from its German language competitors: 

magazines published by major publishing 

houses whose staff rarely see an 

ILS-approach in earnest or a removed 

cylinder in all its oily beauty. 

In short, we’re the only magazine 

actively flying and breathing general 

aviation in the three German speaking 

countries – that’s what I wanted and 

that’s what I signed up for. But at the 

time of its founder’s death, the company 

operated a MU-2B. That, I decided – was 

too much. Before that they operated several 

Aerostars and 414s. 

Looking at the prospect of a rocky 

transition from a charismatic owner/ 

founder to a relative newcomer like me, 

I decided for a less costly company 

airplane – my Twin Comanche! After 

all, the company had operated a Turbo 

PA30 for several years in the late 1980s 

and it had proven its merits as a fast, 

safe and economic workhorse. 

Not needing the pressurized cabin, 

it was a slam dunk and in April 2004, 

after installing an STEC-30 Autopilot, 

N7311Y left the United States for the 

first time and flew – safely, fast and 

without complaining – over the North 

Atlantic to its new home in Straubing 

Germany (EDMS). 

In its 40th year of flying, the old lady 

was now about to learn a new language. 

And since European bureaucracy isn’t 

particularly fond of old general aviation 

airplanes, I decided to leave 11Y on the 

U.S. register. With the help of Lloyd 

Nelson, an FAA-DAR and a good friend, 

who had already helped me get the Tiger 

ready for its ferry flight, a trust was set 

up to make it all legal. 

The company (of course) has changed 

a lot since the days when the first Twin 


Comanche served in the late 1980s. 

We’re now in the business of organizing 

an intercontinental trip (called 

“Leserreise”) every two years for people 

who wish to fly their high-performance 

general aviation airplanes to remote 

locations such as Alaska, Australia or 

South Africa. 

We do this mostly for the PR that 

comes with it and – let’s be honest – for 

the heck of it! Our job: Organizing the 

trip! This means basically flying the 

intended route a few months in advance 

to scout out all the problems and issues, 

sort them out, make sure Avgas is available 

and repeat the thing with a flock 

of 10-15 airplanes a few months later. 

The average airplane on these trips 

is a cabin class twin or turboprop. Let’s 

say a 340, ranging up to a PC12 or a 

Cheyenne III. There’re also Turbo- 

Mooneys and Senecas in the crowd, but 

our Twin Comanche is definitely on the 

lower end of the performance envelope. 

Here is what I’ve learned: While 

11Y is already serving us well for our 

regular business trips within Europe 

(300 – 1,000 NM), this girl can do so 

much more! Outfitted with tip- and 

nacelle-tanks its range (140 USG) and 

speed (170-190 KTAS) make it a true 

globetrotter! 

So in early 2005 a coworker and me 

set out to prepare the 2005 “Leserreise” 

– a trip all the way from Europe to China, 

stopping in Iran, Pakistan, India, Nepal, 

Thailand and Laos on the way east; and 

in Cambodia, India, Oman, Bahrain 

and Jordan on the way back. 

To cut a long story short, 11Y did 

just great! All the way from the hotand-high 

conditions of Iran, the extreme 

environment in the Himalaya to the 

jungle of Laos and Cambodia, the Twin 

flew wonderfully. 

There were problems with SAP- 

Millennium cylinders installed during 

engine overhaul a few months earlier, 

causing us to stop in Amman, Jordan 

for maintenance, but they were sorted 

out. Let me say that I’m flying Lycoming 

cylinders now and the costs were picked 

up by Superior. 

On the actual main-trip in late 2005, 

when the group was with us, 11Y did 

marvelously again! Way faster than the 

Senecas in the group, equally fuel efficient 

than the Mooney M20M and with 

a better load carrying capability (on 

ultra long range trips of 1,000+ NM), 

than even the Cessna 340; the Twin Co 

proved all the reasons why I had initially 

spent my last penny on that design. 

SEPTEMBER 2006 

One example: On a flight from Taipei, 

Taiwan (RCTP) to Siem Reap, Cambodia 

(VDSR), N7311Y flew 1,211 NM across 

the South China Sea and Vietnam with 

140 USG fuel on board in spite of constant 

headwinds, arriving with more 

than 90 minutes of fuel left! 

A Cheyenne IIIa, flying the same 

route as part of our group, had to divert 

to Hong Kong for fuel. It has to be said 

for fairness, that while we had on average 

5-10 KTS headwind down low, the 

Turboprop was faced with 20-30 KTS 

at altitude, but it underlines the versatility 

of the PA30 to be able to fly 

fuel efficient in a wide range of altitude 

levels. 

Many of the larger Twins (C303, C340, 

Seneca) did not even attempt the flight 

on that day. On these ultra-long-range 

challenges, the Twin Co was only second 

to the powerful PC12 and a highly 

modified Turbine-Bonanza. 

(All the events and impressions from 

these two flights to the Far East would 

prove too much for this column, but I 

have assured Kim that we could feature 

the trip in future Flyers.) 

Flying across the globe of course is 

the exception. On a daily basis 11Y flies 

for business, carrying me and/or staff 

members on an average of 200-500 NM 

trips throughout Europe. 

And N7311Y – affectionately christened 

“Gretchen” by a good friend of 

mine from New York – has come a long 

� EDM engine monitor, 

Approach-GPS, 

large Moving Map 

(MT Vision Air). The 

cockpit of 11Y is a 

workplace, not so 

much an avionics 

showroom. However, 

the airplane has to 

perform reliably and 

economically 

for business…. 

� ...and for pleasure! 

Arriving at Endelave, 

a beautiful island on 

Denmark for a 

weekand getaway. 

way since its days as a basic cloudseeder 

in Fargo, N.D. It now has a modern 

panel layout, a basic (but clean) 

new interior, an approach-certified GPS, 

the STEC-30 two axis autopilot, a large 

moving map (MT Vision Air) including 

WX-uplink, realtime ATC-flight plan 

submission, Terrain Warning and WX- 

500 Stormscope display, backup gyros, 

an engine overhaul, nacelle tanks, tip 

tanks, alternators, lightweight starters 

and finally last winter a new paint job! 

Flying now around 200 hours a year 

mostly for business, I’m planning to get 

many more hours out of this exceptional 

aircraft. 

What I value most about the Turbo 

PA30 is the versatility of the design. 

While it’s an airplane that you can fairly 

easily circumnavigate the globe with, 

you can also take off from your favorite 

500-meter (1,600-foot) grass strip near 

the beach and fly with four people and 

enough fuel on board to go 500 NM. 

It’s giving you Bonanza-like fuel efficiency 

and almost the load hauling 

characteristics of a C210. All that at 

twin engine safety and (for turbo PA30s) 

a single engine service ceiling well 

above Europe’s highest mountains or 

Greenland’s dreaded icecap. 

Even when comparing it to newer 

designs such as the DA42 (which we 

tested intensively) it’s simply the best 

light twin design on the market as 

long as you don’t require the pressurized 

cabin. 

Jan Brill, born November 5, 1974 is 

managing editor of Pilot und Flugzeug, 

Germany’s leading general aviation magazine: 

www.pilotundflugzeug.de. You can 

contact him at jan.brill@pilotundflugzeug.de

2006-2007 ICS BOARD OF DIRECTORS & TRIBE REPRESENTATIVES 

President: 

Lawrence Paratz, ICS #12475, AU Tribe 

11 Wrixon St., Kew 

Melbourne, VIC 3101 

Australia 

Ph: +61-3-9817-1222 Fax: +61-3-9817-2088 

Email: LParatz@bigpond.com 

Vice President: 

Dave Fitzgerald, ICS #10297, NC Tribe 

5393 Hillsboro Ave. SE 

Canton, OH 44707-1167 

Ph: (330) 484-4609 

Email: aaviator@neo.rr.com 

Secretary: 

Dorothy Meadows, ICS #6723, NC Tribe 

1500 Odette 

Hartland, MI 48353 

Ph: (810) 632-9588 

Email: dotmeadows@comcast.com 

Treasurer: 

Don Nelson, ICS #118, NW Tribe 

925 Ludwick Ave. 

Blaine, WA 98230-5109 

Ph/Fax: (360) 332-2743 Cell: (360) 305-0286 

Email: nelsbldg@msn.com 

Past President: 

Karl Hipp, ICS #10241, MS Tribe 

131 Beaver Lane 

Redstone, CO 81623-8763 

Ph: (970) 963-3755 Cell: (970) 948-5776 

Email: khipp@rof.net 

CFF President: (non-voting) 

Harley McGatha, ICS #11687, SE Tribe 

50 Country Rd. 537 

Centre, AL 35960 

Ph: (256) 927-5044 Cell: (256) 484-1738 

Email: comanche@tds.net 

TRIBE REPRESENTATIVES & 

CHIEFS: 

South East: 

Tribe Chief Charles Littwin, ICS #14809 

108 Amelia Lane 

Mooresville, NC 28117-8457 

Ph: (704) 799-2989 Wrk: (704) 528-1130 

Fax: (704) 799-2981 Cell: (704) 658-7910 

Email: chas4949@adelphia.net 

North East: 

Tribe Chief Bill Harris, ICS #13820 

4069 Shadowland Dr. 

Radford, VA 24141 

Hm: (540) 633-2567 Cell: (540) 818-3540 

Wrk: (540) 731-4772 Fax: (540) 731-0543 

Email: bill@motioncontrol.org 

North Central: 

Tribe Chief Dave Fitzgerald, ICS #10297 

5393 Hillsboro Ave. SE 

Canton, OH 44707-1167 

Ph: (330) 484-4609 

Email: aaviator@neo.rr.com 

Mid States: 

Tribe Rep/A.TC Mark Pfeifer, ICS #14817 

PO Box 342 B 

Marshall, MN 56258 

Ph: (507) 532-0439 Cell: (507) 829-5889 

Email: mpfeifer@i2roam.com 

Tribe Chief Dale McCaslin, ICS #15639 

2300 NE Barry Rd 

Kansas City, KS 64155 

Ph: (816) 436-0272 Fax: (816) 436-0003 

Email: dmccaslin@sbcglobal.net 

South Central: 

Tribe Rep Dale Vandever, ICS #2826 

12603 Mile Drive 

Houston, TX 77065-1303 

Ph/Fax: (281) 469-2435 

Tribe Chief Bruce Thumann, ICS #14028 

6618 Avenel Drive 

Pasadena, TX 77505 

Ph: (281) 487-5782 Cell: (713) 875-3056 

Email: bruce@contractbuilderssupply.com 

South West: 

Tribe Chief Lorne Harmon, ICS #12436 

1491 Northridge 

Prescott, AZ 86301 

Ph: (928) 717-2630 

Email: flying@cableone.net 

North West: 

Tribe Rep/Sec Shirley Nelson, ICS #14897 

925 Ludwick Ave 

Blaine, WA 98230 

Ph: (360) 671-7388 Cell: (360) 305-0287 

Email: sanelson7@msn.com 

Tribe Chief Jay Hulbert, ICS #15334 

54967 East Kirkwood Dr. 

Sandy, OR 97055 

Ph: (503) 702-6403 

Email: jhulbert@igpco.com 

W. Canada: 

Tribe Chief Don Ostergard, ICS #3263 

Box 2550 

Drumheller AB T0J 0Y0 Canada 

Wrk: (403) 823-9326 Fax: (403) 823-9183 

Hm: (403) 823-8813 Cell: (403) 823-0405 

Email: c-flhv@telus.net 

E. Canada: 

Tribe Chief Bruce MacRitche, ICS #10998 

PO Box 244 

Welland ONT K0A 1L0 Canada 

Ph: (905) 295-4968 905-735-7773 

Email: wacctr@iaw.on.ca 

Europe: 

ICS Rep Monica Rehkopf, ICS #14462 

85570 Siggenhofen, Germany 

Hm: 49-8121-229333 Fax: 49-8121 229 332 

Email: mrehkopf@omnijet.de 

Tribe Chief Dave Sheppard, ICS #14629 

Lipstone Cottage 

Cansey Lane, Wix 

Essex, CO11 2RJ, UK 

Ph: 01255-870061 

Email: david@sheppardracing.frees 

S. Africa: 

Tribe Chief Fred Morrison, ICS #15438 

PO Box 3912, Midrand Gauteng 

1685 South Africa 

Hm: 27-11-314-8181 Fax: 27-11-314-8182 

email: fjm@telkomsa.net 

Australia: 

Tribe Chief John Macknight, ICS #596 

PO Box 356 

Deniliquin NSW 2710; Australia 

Hm: 61-3-5881 6000 

Mbl: 61-427 694008 

Email: jjmacknight@bigpond.com 

2006-07 ICS Standing 

Committees & Chairpersons: 

Historical: None 

Communications – Chair: 

Mark Pfeifer, MS 

Technical – Overall Chair: 

John vanBladeren, NW 

Maintenance – Chair: 

Karl Hipp, MS 

Operations – Chair: 

Bill Harris, NE 

Finance & Budget – Chair: 

Don Nelson, NW 

Parts: None 

Revised 8-01-06 by Secretary Don Nelson, 

updates in bold. 

Further changes/corrections will follow, 

as they are made available. 

Bylaws, Standing & Special 

Rules – Chair: 

Don Nelson, NW 

Nominating – Chair: 

Skip Dykema, SE 

Flagship: None 

Elections – Chair: 

Harley McGatha, SE 

Long Range Planning – Chair: 

Lawrence Paratz, AU 

Marketing – Chair: 

Bill Schnauffer, NC 


CFF-Trained CFIs 

Certified flight instructors who have 

completed the CFF Larry Larkin Seminar 

The International Comanche Society, Inc. (ICS) 

publishes this list in the spirit of open discussion 

and the opinions, statements and claims made 

by the instructors are their own and not of the 

Society (ICS). The listed CFIs have undergone an 

extensive training program specialized in the 

Comanches. ICS assumes no responsibility for any 

actions between its members and the listed CFIs. 

Pete Anderson – TX 

Single, (817) 279-1627 

peterk48@msn.com 

Samuel Appavoo – Canada 

Twin, (519) 524-7301 

appavoo@cabletv.ca 

James Bates – AZ 

Single, (480) 837-3836 

jbates747@msn.com 

Kevin C. Baun – OH 

Twin, (740) 881-9878 

kbaun@columbus.rr.com 

Sheldon Bresin – CA 

Single & Twin, (909) 629-2626 

shellflycfii@verizon.net 

Orlando Brown – OK 

Single, (405) 376-4056 

c172@worldnet.att.net 

Dennis Carew – WI 

Twin & Single 

(262) 250-3136 / (920) 749-9558 

dcarew@enerconmail.com 

Charles Classen – IL 

Single, (815) 269-2552 

classaero@msn.com 

Linda Dowdy – MN 

Twin, (763) 753-1571 

lindowdy@visi.com 

William Harris – VA 

Single & Twin, (540) 731-4772 

bill@motioncontrol.org 

Ira Menin – IA 

Single, (712) 239-5142 

iracomman@aol.com 

Eric Schlanser – MI 

Single, (616) 382-3709 

eschlanser@yahoo.com 

Dave Stewart – IN 

Single, (219) 462-0182 

comanchedave@ATTB1.com 

Roger Wentowski – AL 

Single, (205) 290-8401 

rwentowski@btsal.com 

Larry J. Whitbeck - IL 

Single, (217) 732-9704 

lwhitbeck@abelink.com 

Steve Zaboji – VA 

Single & Twin, (703) 471-1764 

SZaboji@aol.com 

COMANCHE FLYER FOUNDATION, INC. 

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Program 2: Tech Tips: A Closer Look 

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Program 4: Single Comanche Flight Tips 

Program 5: Twin Comanche Flight Tips 

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Please circle items above and indicate any multiple quantities. Be certain to 

specify DVD or tapes, and format (VHS or PAL) and programs desired for tape orders. 

Item(s) cost: __________ Add all shipping: __________ Order Total: __________ 

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Upgrading Supplemental 

Oxygen Will Lighten 

Your 

Figure 1: 

Nelson A-4 Flow Meter 

LOADby 

Chris Burns, ICS #9680 

For thirteen years I hauled around a 35pound 

oxygen bottle attached to my PA-30. 

As my family grew, I increasingly looked 

for ways to cut empty weight so that I could 

haul the additional payload without sacrificing 

fuel. Lightweight starters and alternators helped 

nip away at the empty weight. So did a huge 

box of excess wiring that I removed during a 

panel modification. When my son invited his 

180-pound roommate for our 2003 Thanksgiving 

trip to the Bahamas, I looked at the large green 

steel cylinder behind the baggage compartment 

and decided it had to go. 

Give up my oxygen? This seemed 

like the simplest solution – and the 

cheapest. Most of my flights are flown 

between 8,000 and 11,000 feet – not 

exactly nosebleed territory. But over 

the years, using supplemental oxygen has reduced my fatigue 

at the end of a full day of flying and has helped me feel better 

the next day. I also consider supplemental oxygen an essential 

for night flying. I determined giving up supplemental oxygen 

was not an acceptable answer. I considered a portable seat-back 

bottle but decided against it because a built-in system is 

totally out of the way until it is needed and then it is always 

available – even if you were not planning on needing oxygen. 

So, rather than chuck the built-in oxygen capability altogether, 

the search was on for a lighter built-in oxygen supply that 

would provide adequate support for my type of flying. 

Figure 2: 

OXYGEN DURATION (Hours) 

WITH 22 CU FT CAPACITY 

(1850 PSI) using Nelson A-4 

Oximizer TM Oxygen Dispensers 

Oxygen supply and delivery has changed since the birth 

of the Comanche. Oxygen cylinders have evolved from the 

need for thick-walled containers to lightweight aluminum 

containers wrapped with high-strength carbon fibers. Flow 

rates for on-demand supplemental oxygen have also dropped 

dramatically by using delivery devices like the Nelson A-4 

Oximizer TM shown in Figure 1. Scott Aviation (now AVOX) 

manufactures a line of Kevlar wrapped aluminum cylinders 

and regulators known as their 895 series that is a direct 

replacement for older units. I studied the weights and 

dimensions of these units and found that a 22-cubic-foot 

bottle could be mounted between the existing fuselage 

mounts for the larger steel bottle. With a full charge of oxygen, 

the 22-cubic-foot cylinder weighed just 7.8 pounds. 

Would 22-cubic-feet of oxygen provide enough supply? 

The Nelson A-4 Oximizers TM use just .3 liters per minute 

when set for 10,000 feet. Using flow rates for different altitude 

settings provided for the A-4 Flowmeter and doing some 

conversions from cubic feet to liters, I constructed Figure 2 

below to see how far 22 cubic feet of oxygen would go. The 

last column in Figure 2 shows the oxygen duration using 

standard constant flow masks at two liters per minute. With 

the Oxymizer’s set to 10,000 feet, I could suck gas for 34 

hours or four of us could use oxygen for over eight hours – this 

seemed like a plentiful supply. 

I placed a call to Scott Aviation’s technical support to find 

out which regulator matched the characteristics of the original 

installation. These characteristics included input and output 

pressures/flow rates and the actuating geometry. The original 

Cruise Altitude 

Users 10,000 12,000 14,000 16,000 18,000 2LPM 

1 34.2 25.7 20.5 17.1 13.7 5.1 

2 17.1 12.8 10.3 8.6 6.8 2.6 

3 11.4 8.6 6.8 5.7 4.6 1.7 

4 8.6 6.4 5.1 4.3 3.4 1.3 


Figure 3 

63.5 cubic-feet cylinder and regulator assembly, called out on the 

Piper Drawing 25432, is Scott P/N 800112-12. Scott compared 

the characteristics of this original installation (shown in Figure 3) 

to their new line of bottles/regulators and recommended a 

bottle/regulator assembly (P/N 895-09022) that included a 

22-cubic-foot capacity composite cylinder and a regulator 

(P/N 803214). New cylinder brackets (P/N 800644-00) would 

also be required because the new bottle has a much smaller 

diameter than the original. The final step in the plan was to 

design an adapter that would transition from the bolt-hole 

spacing of for the larger diameter bottle brackets to the 

bolt-hole spacing of the smaller brackets. Figure 4 shows 

the new bottle brackets attached to the adapters. 

Figure 5 

I brought the local FSDO into the project from the very 

beginning. They approved the submitted data for field approval 

and the new bottle and regulator assembly was ordered and 

installed with little difficulty. The fittings from the old regulator 

had to be transferred to the new regulator. The new regulator 

was fitted with a thermal discharge port and a short piece 

of aluminum tubing was fabricated to provide a discharge 

path in the event of thermal discharge. See Figure 5 for the 

final installation. 

Scott Aviation, one of the truly old aviation names, has gone 

through numerous changes since this project was undertaken. 

They were bought by TYCO International who kept their 

fire-safety line of products and spun off the aviation products 

to the French company Zodiak, S.A. However, the original 

Scott Aviation products are still sold and serviced by AVOX 

of Irvine, Calif. (www.avoxinc.com or 949-727-3844). For 

anyone who would like more details on this installation, 

please feel free to drop me a line. 

Chris Burns has owned N8000, a 1965 PA-30 since 1991. 

He can be reached at cgburns@earthlink.net. 

Figure 4

ONLINE INTELLIGENCE 


Alternator Problems 

The following is from a series of 

online postings from the Comanche’s 

Owner’s Forum. These postings are provided 

for informational purposes only. 

The views expressed in these postings 

represent the opinions of individual 

Comanche owners and have not been 

vetted by the ICS technical committee. 

As a responsible pilot and aircraft 

owner, you should always seek the 

advice from an experienced, trusted 

source, such as your A&P or CFFapproved 

CFI, before applying any of 

the techniques or recommendations 

presented in these postings. 

The postings are printed as they 

appeared in the Forum. Due to space 

considerations, we are publishing only 

selected posts. 

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––– 

I have a 1960 250 with an Alcor 

alternator conversion on it. About 15 

hours ago I was doing the run up away 

from home and I noticed that the 

alternator was not showing a charge on 

the ammeter. We checked everything 

visible before we flew home (about 15 

minutes away) and found nothing 

wrong. I pulled the alternator off and 

had it checked and overhauled at a 

local shop. After it was repaired with 

new brushes, new diode package and 

general cleanup I reinstalled it. The 

charging system worked excellent for 

about 10 hours and now sometimes 

the alternator will drop offline and 

not start charging again until I put a 

load on the system by turning on both 

landing lights on and then off. After 

that simple load, the alternator works 

great. I have checked connections for 

broken or loose wires with nothing 

found. I did talk to the folks in San 

Antonio and they think that it may be 

a bad connection also. I know this is long 

winded, but I am at a loss where to look. 

Does anybody have a suggestion? I have 

hooked up a digital volt meter to the 

outlet and confirmed the voltage when 

online is 14 volts and drops to 12 

volts. Thanks for any help. 

Ed Taylor, ICS #14510 

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––– 

During my last alternator episode, our 

local shop sent us back to get the voltage 

regulator. They tested both (alternator 

and regulator), together and separately. 

This time it was a bad regulator. 

Rich 

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––– 

While the connections may look good, 

I would suspect the wire that connects 

to the brushes. It is the small thin wire 

that goes between the regulator (marked 

field) and the brushes (the small tab 

protruding from the back of the alternator). 

If the end was crimped on 

using excessive pressure, several or 

all of the strands of wire could have 

fractured. The only thing holding everything 

together would then be the outside 

skin. This wire supplies the field 

voltage to the alternator. If it is intermittent, 

the alternator will drop offline. 

A simple check is to grab hold of the 

wire and give it a tug. If it comes apart, 

that’s your problem. It is the only line 

that can cause this problem. If the end 

isn’t fractured, you may want to consider 

replacing the entire line. It’s a 

good idea to make sure that the line is 

anchored and can’t flop around in the 

breeze. That can also cause the individual 

strands of wire to break, eventually 

causing a failure. 

Dave Gitelman 

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––– 

Inter-Av (Alcor) has a web site 

(www.inter-av.com/alternator.htm) 

with troubleshooting advice. A phone 

number is listed for customer support 

too. I hope this helps. 

Brian 

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––– 

Your idea is what I am really expecting 

to have to do. However in the mean 

time I was planning on installing a volt 

meter in the extra hole in panel and 

see if any thing shows in flight. Do you 

think that may help to see if it drops 

rapidly offline or [if there’s] a slow 

lowering of voltage before it drops offline. 

I have the great luck of the most odd-ball 

problems. Hope you are getting better. 

Cheers, 


––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––– 

Dave- 

I will look again at all the wires like 

you have suggested. Last time it was 

a bad connection. I thought that we 

had corrected all the bad crimps and 

bad wires. The last annual in June is 

when I started chasing all of these little 

quirks. I hope that I may have missed 

something. Thanks for the ideas. 

Cheers, 

Ed Taylor 

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––– 

Brian- 

Thanks for the contact info. I talked 

to one of their techs and had him suggest 

that he had seen a similar problem on 

Cessna 182 and it was the master solenoid. 

He said it may be the ground wire 

or burned contacts. When I find the 

problem I will let everyone know. 

Thanks for the ideas. 

Cheers, 

Ed Taylor 

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––– 

I think the easiest thing to do is get 

the regulator checked. If the regulator 

and alternator are both okay, all you can 

do is keep looking. I’m no electrical 

system expert, but my experiences have 

been with regulators and alternators. 

Rich 

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––– 



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CH48110-1 Spin On ....................$16.50 

BRAKE LININGS & DISKS 

66-10600 ORGANIC ....................$8.70 

105-00200 RIVET ........................$0.25 

66-06200 METALLIC ................$16.75 

66-06500 METALLIC ................$19.80 

159-00104 PLAIN ....................$168.00 

164-00900 PLAIN ....................$108.00 

164-01000 PLAIN ....................$132.00 

164-01900 PLAIN ....................$105.00 

164-02201 PLAIN ....................$120.00 

164-10900 CHROME ................$199.50 

164-11900 CHROME ................$193.50 

RA825 RIVERT TOOL ..............$26.00 

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RA212CW EXCH ....................$255.00 

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NEW VACUUM PUMP 

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RA216CW..................................$375.00 

(OUTRIGHT NO CORE) 

RAD9-18-1 FILTER ....................$19.00 

RAB3-5-1 FILTER ........................$2.50 

SHOCK CORDS (BUNGEE) 

8097 (PAIR ONLY)......................$34.00 

LORD ENGINE MOUNTS 

J3804-20 ......................................$94.00 

J7402-5 ......................................$112.00 

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TIRES & TUBES 

GDYR AIRHAWK CONDOR 

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15-600-6-6 ........$104.00 ......-------- ..............$71.00 

600-6 & 15-600-6 MICHELIN TUBE ............$36.95 

BATTERY 

G35 W/ACID ............................$116.95 

LAMPS & BULBS 

330 INSTR. BULB ........................$1.12 

1940 BEACON BULB ................$13.50 

4509 LANDING LIGHT ............$15.00 

Q4509 HALOGEN BULB ..........$33.00 

7512-12 NAV BULB ..................$13.00 

1284G GREEN NAV LENS ........$17.25 

1284R RED NAV LENS..............$17.25 

MISC. ITEMS 

SS SCREW KIT PA24 ................$26.84 

SS SCREW KIT PA30/39............$61.54 

DOOR SEAL 1/4 ROUND..........$50.00 

(25' PACK HOLLOW) 

CHAFE SEAL 1'' X 15' ..............$23.95 

BAFFLE SEAL 

RED SILICONE 3'' X 9'............$31.60 

REINF. SILICONE ....................$57.00 

BLK NEOPRENE 3'' X 9' ........$38.25 

CCA1700 DRAIN VALVE ..........$16.50 

.032 SAFETY WIRE ....................$8.50 

BRACKET AIR FILTER ELEMENTS 

BA3 (PA24-180-250-260) ..........................................................................$10.00 

BA10 (PA30-160/PA39)................................................................................$16.15 

BA27 (PA30 W/RAYJAYTURBO) ..............................................................$10.00 

BA3205 (PA24-250 TO S/N 1477) ..................................................................$11.40 

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LP064 LH LANDING LIGHT LENS ..........................................................................................................................................$36.00 

LP065 RH LANDING LIGHT LENS ..........................................................................................................................................$36.00 

Please call for individual window pricing. Freight is FOB factory. 

PRICES SUBJECT TO CHANGE WITHOUT NOTICE 

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Update Your Old Comanche Panel 

Make Room for a MFD 

Update your panel to a standard “T” configuration. Add space for 

new electronics. All panels computer drawn and laser cut. 

‘58-60 Centerstack Conversion $950.00 (Fully STC’d) 

‘61-68 Single or Twin $825.00 (Fully STC’d) 

Recuts left side – $250 • Recuts right side – $100. (Prior Panels) 

Contact: John Van Bladeren at: 

Ron & John’s Comanche Service 

2007 SE Ash Street • Portland, OR 97214 

(503) 329-8512 (Day or Night) • Fax: (503) 234-0677 

AIRCRAFT 

COVERS 

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WWW.AIRCRAFTCOVERS.COM 

Bruce’s Custom Covers, 989 E. California Ave. Sunnyvale, CA 94085 

Ed, 

You can pick up a voltmeter that 

fits in the cigar lighter from an auto 

parts store for about $10. 

Steve 

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––– 

Hi Ed 

I also have a 1960 250 and last year 

did the alternator conversion and did 

a lot of reading up on the charging 

system. One thing that became evident 

was the merit of adding a separate 

on/off field switch for the alternator. 

How it works is that at start up, you 

switch the alternator OFF, this provides 

more juice to the starter and more importantly 

eliminated spikes to the charging 

system and over voltage situation caused 

during the starting process. This can be 

seen as a “short” to the system by the 

over voltage regulator which will kick in 

and switch the alternator off line to 

compensate for the apparent “short.” 

Once the engine is running, then switch 

the alternator ON, notice the Ammeter 

reading go up, to replace the charge 

from the battery taken to start the 

engine, this should slowly reduce to 

zero as the charge is replaced. 

I added a voltmeter as well to see the 

charging system generate about 14 volts 

even when the ammeter is at zero. If for 

some reason in flight the alternator goes 

off line, you can cycle the alternator 

on and off using the alternator field 

on/off switch without having to go the 

master on/off routine. Shut the alternator 

off again as the last thing when 

you shut the engine down. 

Right now you probably have a loose 

wire or the voltage regulator is toast. 

Add an alternator field switch to help 

the charging system, if you don’t have 

one already. 

For more info and reading go here: 

www.nflite.com/ChargingSystem.html. 

Good Luck, let us know how you 

make out. 

Ivan 

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––– 

I want to thank everyone for all of 

the good ideas. I plan to spend this 

weekend checking and hope to find a 

simple repair. The prop will be ready 

tomorrow for another 500 hours so let 

the fun begin. 


––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––– 

Our thanks to Dale Vandever for 

compiling this text. You can view these 

messages in the context of the entire 

discussion by going to: http://forums. 

delphiforums.com/comancheflyer. 


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Pilot Pointers 

It Should Not Happen to You 

Comanche Accidents for June 2006 and a Case 

by Omri Talmon, ICS #7949 

Comanche Accidents, 

June 2006 

6.1 

Make/Model: PA24 

Date: 06/17/2006 

Location: Houghton Lake, Mich. 

Description: Aircraft landed gear up. 

One person on board, no injuries. 

Damage: Substantial 

6.2 


Date: 06/16/2006 

Location: Mammoth Lakes, Calif. 

Description: Aircraft on takeoff, crashed 

under unknown circumstances. Two 

persons on board, no injuries. 

Damage: Unknown 

6.3 


Date: 06/20/2006 

Location: Wilkesboro, N.C. 

Description: Aircraft crashed under 

unknown circumstances. One person 

on board, fatally injured. 

Damage: Unknown 

6.4 


Date: 06/26/2006 

Location: Perry, Fla. 

Description: Aircraft landed gear up. 

Four people on board, no injuries. 

Damage: Substantial 

A Case 

Accident occurred Wednesday, 

February 5, 2003 in Halstead, Kan. 

Aircraft: Piper PA24-180 

Injuries: Two uninjured. 

The aircraft was flown by a private 

pilot who was receiving Comanche 

familiarization and a checkout from a 

flight instructor. It was substantially 

damaged when it impacted terrain 

shortly after takeoff. They had been 

doing air work and touch and goes at 

other airports in the area and upon 

return to Halstead, they landed to the 

south and taxied back to the departure 

end of the runway. 

According to the instructor, the wind 

was light and out of the south, as it had 

been all afternoon. A soft field technique 

was employed on the accident takeoff 

and the full runway length was used. 

The instructor stated, “Just over half way 

down [the] runway – normal acceleration 

degraded. We were past abort point 

and due to dangerous road area elected 

to fly,” although the aircraft was “behind 

the power curve.” 

After liftoff, the aircraft did not level 

out very much and was at a relatively 

high-pitch attitude. Initially the aircraft 

climbed to approximately 40 feet above 

ground level. However, it settled lower 

and was “bobbling” in and out of 

ground effect as they approached the 

end of the runway. Due to an inability 

to climb, they were forced to fly under 

a set of power lines at the end of the 

runway. The power lines ran along a 

roadway, which bordered the south side 

of the airport. The instructor said they 

“could not accelerate” and were “unable 

to climb.” A decision was made to cut 

the power, and impact (landing) was 

made before reaching more obstructions 

(trees). 

Upon exiting the aircraft, he noted 

that the wind was now from the north. 

Both pilots indicated there were no 

problems with the aircraft or engine. 

The FAA Airplane Flying Handbook, 

concerning soft field takeoffs, states: 

“After becoming airborne, the nose 

should be lowered very gently with the 

wheels clear of the surface to allow the 

airplane to accelerate … an attempt to 

climb prematurely or too steeply may 

cause the airplane to settle back to the 

surface as a result of losing the benefit 

of ground effect.” 

The National Transportation Safety 

Board determines the probable cause(s) 

of this accident as follows: 

Failure by the flight crew to execute 

an aborted takeoff when acceleration 

degraded and the improper soft field 

takeoff procedure as flown by the private 

pilot. Contributing factors were 

inadequate supervision by the flight 

instructor and the tailwind encountered 

on takeoff. 

Narrative 

On February 5, 2003 at 1715 Central 

Standard Time, a Piper PA-24-180 

Comanche, piloted by a flight instructor 

and dual student, was substantially 

damaged when it collided with terrain 

shortly after takeoff from runway 17 

(2,640 feet x 150 feet, turf) at the 

Halstead Airport (SN05), Halstead, Kan. 

The dual student was a private pilot 

receiving a complex aircraft checkout 

and Comanche familiarization. The 

instructional flight was conducted under 

the provisions of 14 CFR Part 91 and was 

not on a flight plan. Visual meteorological 

conditions prevailed at the time 

of the accident. The flight instructor 

and dual student reported no injuries. 

According to the flight instructor’s 

statement, the flight originally departed 

Halstead Airport early on the afternoon 

of the accident. He noted that they had 

completed air work, and touch and goes 

at Hutchison (HUT) and Kingman (9K8). 

They departed Kingman at 1635 to 

return to Halstead. 



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Upon arrival at Halstead, they landed 

to the south and taxied back to the 

beginning of runway 17. The instructor 

stated that the wind was light and was 

still out of the south, as it had been all 

afternoon. 

He noted that a soft field technique 

was employed on the accident takeoff, 

and that the full runway length was used. 

He stated: “Just over half way down [the] 

runway – normal acceleration degraded. 

We were past abort point and due to 

dangerous road area elected to fly,” 

although the aircraft was “behind the 

power curve.” 

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After liftoff, the instructor stated the 

aircraft did not level out very much and 

was at a relatively high pitch attitude. 

Initially the aircraft climbed to approximately 

40 feet above ground level. 

However, it settled lower and was 

“bobbling” in and out of ground effect 

as they approached the runway, according 

to the instructor. 

The flight instructor reported that, 

due to an inability to climb, they were 

forced to fly under a set of power lines 

at the end of the runway. The power 

lines ran along a roadway, which bordered 

the south side of the airport. He 

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stated that they “could not accelerate” 

and were “unable to climb.” The decision 

was made to cut the power and impact 

(landing) was made before reaching 

more obstructions (trees). 

Initial impact was on the right wing 

tip and right main landing gear, 

according to the instructor. The aircraft 

came to rest about one-fourth mile 

south of the airport in a wheat field. 

Upon exiting the aircraft, he noted that 

the wind was now from the north. 

The instructor noted that SN05 did 

not have any weather reporting services, 

although a wind sock was located 

approximately one-half mile from the 

runway. He reported the runway condition 

as dry, short grass. 

Weather at the scene was reported 

as overcast with light winds, by the 

flight instructor. He estimated a tail 

wind component of 5 ~ 10 knots on 

takeoff. He stated that after the accident, 

the wind started picking up out 

of the north and the temperature got 

noticeably colder. 

Weather conditions reported by the 

Newton City/County Airport (EWK) 

automated weather observing station 

(AWOS), approximately 11 nm east of 

the accident site, at 1655 were: few 

clouds at 3,500 feet agl, and wind from 

030 degrees magnetic at 9 knots. 

Both pilots indicated that there 

were no problems with the aircraft or 

engine, either prior to, or at the time 

of the accident. 

The FAA Airplane Flying Handbook, 

concerning soft field takeoffs, states: 

“After becoming airborne, the nose 

should be lowered very gently with the 

wheels clear of the surface to allow the 

airplane to accelerate … an attempt 

to climb prematurely or too steeply 

may cause the airplane to settle back 

to the surface as a result of losing the 

benefit of ground effect.” 

Discussion 

Before a short discussion of the probable 

causes as determined by the NTSB, 

the situation begs for some questions: 

Way back when I learned to fly, we 

were told that the before takeoff procedure 

includes a glance at the windsock. 

This low-tech device shows the wind 

direction and velocity. From the report, 

we note there was a windsock on the 

airport and the instructor apparently 

looked at it after the accident. Why not 

have a look before takeoff? 

The normal acceleration degraded 

just about half-way down the runway. 


It means that there were some 1,300 

feet until the end of the runway, which 

is turf and was dry. Why not abort the 

takeoff and aggressively ride the brakes? 

It should have worked. 

I fail to understand the meaning of 

“We were past abort point”. If acceleration 

degrades there must be something 

which is wrong or very wrong (like an 

engine failure, fuel starvation or a rapid 

change in wind direction) and may 

become more so in a second. Therefore, 

in most of these circumstances, aborting 

the takeoff would be the least hazardous 

action, and a fixed idea of an “abort point” 

may be dangerous. I still have to learn 

how an abort point can be determined. 

In this case, the aircraft climbed to 40 

feet while still over the runway. It could 

not have been too close to the end of it. 

The above is what I believe to be the 

essence of the probable cause. However, 

there is a secondary probable cause. 

This relates to soft field takeoff procedures, 

but is applicable to every takeoff. 

It is understood that when a pilot sees 

obstacles growing larger through the 

windshield, the instinct is to pull back 

on the yoke. The correct action however 

is to maintain level flight and let the 

aircraft accelerate, then “jump over” the 

obstacle. A Comanche with a properly 

operating engine and full throttle will 

accelerate very nicely when leveled at 

40 feet. We don’t know, however, whether 

the gear and the flaps, if deployed, 

were retracted. 

Generally speaking, before starting 

the takeoff run we should do some 

thinking as to what should be done if 

something possibly goes wrong. It is a 

moment of full concentration and 

attention, and some pre-evaluation 

may save us from a bad surprise. 

Likewise, before each landing the 

checklist and go around procedure 

should be clear, especially when under 

instrument conditions. A good state of 

mind is to say to oneself: I am going to 

make an approach to the runway and 

then go around, but if conditions permit 

I will abort the go-around and land. 

Lessons 

The wind may change suddenly from 

one flight to the next. 

At every takeoff, some thinking should 

be given to what should be done if 

something goes wrong during takeoff. 

Proverb 

Remember, you’re always a student 

in an airplane. 


Flight into O’Hare 

Wasn’t Hairy at All 

by Charlie Littwin, ICS #14089 

On Tuesday, March 21, Patti and I departed Lake Norman 

Airpark in North Carolina for a business seminar in 

Chicago. Rather than paying for a cab or a rental car 

from a “reliever” airport, we committed to the challenge of flying 

the Comanche into O’Hare Airport (KORD). A fuel stop was 

made in Bloomington, Ind. where we were delighted with the 

exceptional service provided by Cook FBO. After topping off at 

$2.68 a gallon (a savings of $2.27 a gallon compared to $4.95 

at O’Hare), we were off again with an ETA of 8:10 p.m. at KORD. 

Routing was fairly direct with vectors smoothly provided 

near the airport. Despite two requests for landing on 9L which 

was advertised on the ATIS, ATC decided we were going to use 

4R, the farthest runway from the FBO. Full power on final to 

combat the 10-knot headwind, 150 knots, two-mile final, reduce 

power, slow down, gear down, green light and we’re down. 

Something we have never seen before were the lights embedded 

into the runway directing us to the requested taxiway turn off. 

The fun part was the three-mile taxi to Signature. I’m not sure 

who was more excited Patti and I while admiring the grandeur 

of the airport and the multitude of heavy iron, or the ground 

crew pointing to us as we taxied between two 747’s. 


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ARCHES 

NATIONAL 

PARK 

� 

Balanced 

Rock 

M O AB 

UTAH 

� Window Arch

y LeWayne Garrison, ICS #8202 

My family was looking for an 

unusual place to fly to for an 

extended weekend or a week 

of activities. We also wanted somewhere 

that would not break the bank. 

How about some of the most spectacular 

scenery in the west? We decided 

to try Moab, Utah. Some of you may 

not have heard of Moab, or if you 

have, maybe you only know it as the 

“Mecca of mountain biking.” Either 

way, you don’t know what you’re 

missing. My wife, daughter and I made 

the trip recently. 

Moab sits near the eastern 

border of Utah, not far 

from Grand Junction, Colo., on some 

of the most spectacularly beautiful and 

geologically interesting land in the 

United States. It is located on the 

Colorado River and is within 30 minutes 

driving time of both Canyonlands 

National Park and Arches National Park. 

The famous mountain bike area is 

called the Slickrock Bike Trail. This trail 

is on an area just east of town on barren 

pale-red rock – thus the name 

Slickrock. While Slickrock may have 

a geological meaning, in the Moab area 

it means hard-rock landscape with no 

vegetation. In this same area are some 

famous four-wheel-drive trails. 

From the Logbook 

WHAT I DID ON MY 

SUMMER VACATION 


“Moab sits near the 

eastern border of Utah, 

not far from Grand 

Junction, Colo., on some 

of the most spectacularly 

beautiful and geologically 

interesting land in the 

United States.” 

� Landscape Arch

If mountain biking is not your thing 

(it’s not ours), head on out to Arches 

National Park, about 10 minutes from 

Moab. Stop first at the visitor’s center 

and get educated about the conditions 

which caused these unique rock formations 

to be created. 

The first formation the park service 

may point out is that the same rock 

layers on each side of the canyon are 

several hundred feet different in height. 

This is due to the fact that Moab doesn’t 

lie in a river valley (even though the 

Colorado River runs through town), 

but in a fault valley, caused by a geological 

shift that displaced the layers 

of red sandstone. 

Further up the road from the view 

of the fault valley are several vertical 

formations known by various names, 

such as Courthouse Rock, Balanced 

Rock and the Three Gossips. While you 

admire these formations ponder the 

time and forces that created them. 

A bit farther along this road you’ll 

see the first of the signature arches. 

North and South Window arches are a 

short walk up a gravel trail and can be 

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walked around and under to see the 

view from both sides. 

My personal favorite arch is one 

that is not particularly famous; it’s the 

Pinetree-arch which can be seen on the 

trail to Landscape Arch. Some of the 

arches are visible from the road, but for 

the best viewing, get out of your vehicle 

and walk closer. Most of the walks to the 

arches are on easy, well-marked, level 

trails. However, some of the trails are 

moderate to difficult. An example of a 

moderate trail is the trail to the most 

famous arch of all – Delicate Arch. 

There is an easy walk to a lower view 

point and an easy-to-moderate walk to 

an upper viewpoint. Again, there is a 

trail to the arch itself, but it is a fairly 

long, strenuous hike. 

Allow a minimum of six to eight hours 

to tour Arches National Park. There are 

several days’ worth of formations to 

see, so make your plans according to 

the time you have available. 

After touring Arches, you must see 

at least part of Canyonlands National 

Park. Canyonlands is a much bigger 

park and has three separate districts: 

Island in the Sky (which is the closest 

to Moab), Needles, and The Maze. The 

only district we toured was Island in the 

Sky. This district is the most accessible 

and has some spectacular views. If you 

see nothing else at Canyonlands, see 

the overlooks in Island in the Sky. This 

area is so named because it is the top of 

a plateau that has been carved by the 

Colorado and Green Rivers and their 

tributaries. This plateau above the rivers 

and canyons is your “island in the sky.” 

The Needles area is about an hour 

or so drive from Moab and the Maze 

district is even further. The Needles area 

is predominantly a backpacking and 

climbing area. The Maze is a very remote 

area of Canyonlands National Park. It is 

perhaps most well known as the area 

in which Aron Ralston caught his arm 

between a boulder and a canyon wall. 

A small Utah state park called Dead 

Horse Point State Park is another mustsee 

area near Moab. The turn to this park 

is located just off the road to the Island 

in the Sky Visitor Center. This park gets 

its name from the fact that this point is 

on a long, narrow plateau with a very 

narrow neck. In the late 1800s, wranglers 

would drive mustangs into this 

plateau and build a fence across the 

narrow neck to form a natural corral. 

Various stories abound as to how the 

Dead part of the name came to be, but 

you’ll have to visit Moab to hear all the 


different versions. The State Park is 

small, but has some of the most spectacular 

views of the Colorado River 

you will see. 

Moab is justifiably proud of the number 

of movies, television and ads made 

in the area. Many older westerns including 

John Wayne’s Comanchero and 

Wagon Master were made near Moab. 

Most of the television series Gunsmoke 

was shot near Moab and the nearby 

Monument Valley. More recent movies 

include Thelma and Louise, City 

Slickers II, The Legend of Curly’s Gold, 

and Mission Impossible II (the opening 

scene was in Dead Horse Point State 

Park). There is a small Moab movie 

museum at Red Cliffs Lodge and some 

of the guided tours take you to areas 

where movies were filmed. 

� Window Arch 

Guided tours abound in Moab and 

run the gamut from river tours to 

four-wheel-drive tours, to petroglyph 

tours and the aforementioned movie 

tours. If you are in the mood for some 

four-wheeling, many options are 

available. You can rent stock to supermodified 

Jeeps, and do your own thing, 

or you can book a tour. The tours run 

from extreme rock trails in supermodified 

Jeeps or Hummer H1s, to 

tamer (but still rugged) trails that can 

be done in air-conditioned SUV’s. 

Don’t miss the river tours on the 

Colorado River. They vary from half-day 

to full-day raft trips through Class two 

rapids, on up to several day trips on 

Class four and Class five water in 

Cataract canyon. Riverboat trips are 

also available for sightseeing and short 

nature-walks. Jet boats are available 

and always a fun way to see the scenery. 

A unique river trip in Moab is the 

“Canyonlands by Night” tour. After 

feeding you a western-style barbecue 

dinner, you board a barge-type boat 

up the river next to Arches National 

� Three 

Gossips 

Park and as you return down the river 

the canyon walls are lit in time to a 

musical narration on the boat. This trip 

must be experienced to be appreciated. 

Guided hikes and horseback rides are 

also plentiful. Horseback riding through 

the canyons is spectacular. Among the 

trees and small streams, it is surprisingly 

cool. Bring your camera to capture 

the memories of the scenery. 

Moab is definitely a summer town. 

And a hot summer it is. The daily highs 

in mid-summer tend to run in the upper 

90s to lower 100s. Bring sunscreen and 

take a lot of water, both for hiking and 

the flight in. There are some cooler days 

(in late June we had two days that 

never topped 85 degrees) but don’t 

expect cool weather in Moab. Winter 

is not the time to visit, though. The 

locals say that between October and 

March, the town rolls up the sidewalks. 

The locals take their vacations during 

the winter and recharge for the coming 

tourist season. While winters aren’t 

particularly severe, all the tourist 

activities and attractions are closed. 

Continued on Page 28

For a place to stay, Moab has all the 

usual chain motels and hotels, such as 

LaQuinta, Best Western, Holiday Inn, 

etc. The rates are fairly reasonable at 

the chains we checked. Rates under 

$100 per night are easy to find. For 

those wanting something a little fancier, 

Red Cliffs Lodge is available a few miles 

up-river from Moab. It is situated on the 

Colorado River and has a restaurant and 

� Gemini Bridges 

� Long 

Canyon 

a multitude of activities on site; plan on 

spending about $170 per night if you 

stay there. For the particularly wellheeled, 

Sorrel River Ranch is a resort 

with spa and a four-to-five star restaurant 

on site and is also on the river. 

Rates run from $280 to $460 per night. 

There are also bed and breakfast inns 

available. Go to www.moab-utah.com 

to find more information. 

While we were in Moab we didn’t 

discover any spectacularly good eateries, 

but we were also never disappointed in 

our choices. Moab Brew-Pub on Main 

Street has good, typical brew pub fare 

at good prices. Moab Diner was our most 

frequent choice and had the usual diner 

fare of very good quality. They also 

had a wide selection of ice cream and 

the prices were low. 

Moab’s airport is the Canyonlands 

Airport (KCNY), and is at 4,555 feet MSL. 

Runway 3/21 is asphalt and is 7,100 feet 

long. It sits on a flat area between slightly 

higher plateaus, and has clear approaches. 

The surrounding areas are higher 

than the runway, but are not a hazard if 

you are aware of them. As mentioned 

earlier, summer temperatures can be 

high, so be mindful of density altitude. 

The FBO at KCNY is Redtail Aviation. 

Everyone we dealt with at Redtail was 

friendly and helpful. They were very laid 

back, but took care of everything we 

asked for. Fuel prices were competitive 

and tie-downs were reasonable.

� Dead Man’s Point 

Thrifty car rental is in the terminal 

and will have a car ready for you with a 

prior call. The car rental counter in the 

airport is only manned with prior reservations, 

so don’t wait until you arrive. 

Moab is a great and unique place to 

visit for a few days or a week. Make your 

plans for a memorable visit. 

Editor’s Note: LeWayne Garrison wrote 

this article in hopes to promote the use 

of Comanches for leisure travel. He states, 

“I know I don’t utilize my own airplane, 

N5827P, as much as I would like to. I am 

submitting these articles solely to try and 

share some of my favorite trips and memories.” 

Look for other travel destination 

stories by LeWayne in future issues. 

CANYON LANDS 

NATIONAL 

PARK 

� Canyon Overlook 

SEPTEMBER 2006 Comanche Flyer • 29 

� 

Horse 

Trail

The International Comanche Society 

Invites You to Join Us 

Who Are We? 

An organization formed in 1972 with over 

3,000 Comanche owners, pilots and others 

who love these aircraft; both singles and twins. 

Where Are We? 

In many countries on the six continents of the 

world: Africa, Asia, Australia, Europe, United 

Kingdom, South America and North America. 

What Do We Do? 

We exchange information and experiences 

about our airplanes, we make friends and we 

have fun! We also help members with their 

technical needs including parts, publications 

and member’s maintenance tips. 

What Do You Get? Lots! 

1. A monthly magazine The Comanche Flyer 

(12 issues per year) is included. It is packed 

with helpful information. Chances are good 

that this information will save you much 

more that you pay in dues. 

2. Assess to technical expertise along with 

member discounts on certain parts. 

3. Opportunities to attend Fly-Ins and our 

annual convention. These are both social 

and educational. A great way to make 

new friends. 

4. Membership card and certificate that you 

will be proud to frame and display in your 

home or office. 

ICS MEMBERSHIP FORM– PLEASE PRINT 

WELCOME ON BOARD! 

What Does It Cost Per Year To Belong? 

For all U.S., Canada and Mexico: New member- 

$63.00; renewals-$63.00 (Includes second class 

mailing of the Flyer) For Europe, Asia, Africa 

and the United Kingdom: $85.00 for the first 

year; $85.00 thereafter and includes $7.00 

returned to each foreign tribe for communications. 

Dues for Australia and all other 

countries are $78.00 for the first year and 

$78.00 thereafter. The spouse of a member 

may join ICS also for $31.50 per year. This 

will ensure her voting rights. 

How Do You Join? 

Easy, just E-mail or Fax this completed form. 

If you are uncomfortable with sending information 

over the computer, you may mail the 

form to us. We accept checks, cash, moneyorders, 

MasterCard, Visa and American Express. 

Don’t forget to include the expiration date. 

International Comanche Society 

5604 Phillip J. Rhoads Ave. 

Hanger 3, Suite 4 


Tel: 405/491-0321 Fax; 405/491-0325 

e-mail: icsadmin@sbcglobal.net 

Website: www.comancheflyer.com 

Name:__________________________________________________Spouse: ______________________________________________ 

Address: ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

City: ______________________________________________________________________State:____________________________ 

Country: ____________________________________________________________________Zip: ____________________________ 

Telephone:______________________________________________Fax:__________________________________________________ 

E-Mail: ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Aircraft Model: __________________________________________Address: ____________________________________________ 

Registration #: __________________________________________S/H: ________________________________________________ 

PAYMENT INFORMATION 

Name:__________________________________________________________________________Date: ________________________ 

MC Visa AmEx Check or Money Order 

Credit Card Number: ____________________________________________________________Exp. Date: ____________________ 

Amount Paid (U.S.): __________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Authorized Signature:__________________________________________________________________________________________

EAST CANADA TRIBE 

Considering the lack of attendance 

and inconsistent weather patterns we 

experience around the great lakes, we 

usually try to tag our fly-ins on a regular 

basis along with other events that are 

usually pre-planned the Fall Colours 

fly-in at Haliburton/Stanhope on Sept. 

30 and Oct. 1. 

We usually try to plan something in 

the peninsula at either Fort Erie or 

Welland, Bruce McRitchie’s home base 

and we will keep you advised. 

If you have any events you would 

like to add to the schedule, please advise 

John Hamilton at john@frontdist.com. 

MID-STATES TRIBE 

Fremont/Omaha, Neb. 

Fremont, Neb. Airport (FET) 

Sept 22-24 

In 1856, this land was a sea of prairie 

grass and wildflowers and no trees except 

at the Platte River shore. The only homes 

were teepees for 1,500 Pawnee south of 

the Platte. Streets were Indian trails and 

military roads which headed west. It was 

a wilderness. 

Today, Fremont is a bustling city of 

25,000 residents and will be celebrating 

its 150th anniversary this year. We will 

be flying into the Fremont Airport for 

a weekend of adventure and fun. 

Friday night will be our traditional 

meal together and meeting and greeting 

of old friends at 5:30 p.m. 

Saturday we will start the day out 

with a visit to the “Historic Old Market” 

area of Omaha, with its famous Saturday 

morning market vendors. Lunch will be 

at one of the Old Market's unique restaurants. 

Afternoon will find us at the 

famous Strategic Air and Space Museum 

(see history come alive with 300,000 

square feet of space, including World 

II and Cold War aircraft and artifacts 

as well as traveling exhibits, library, 

theater, and flight simulators). 

Date Tribe Event/Location Info Source/Host 

Sep 22-24 MS Fly-In George and Cathy Richmond, 

Omaha/Fremont, Neb. (402) 894-2917 or 

e-mail: fremontcomanches@yahoo.com. 

Sep 30- E. Can Fall Colours Fly-in John Hamilton at john@frontdist.com. 

Oct 1 Haliburton/Stanhope 

Oct 14 SC Hangar Dance Dick Brown at 

Ft. Worth, Texas (FTW) e-mail: dbrown8527@sbcglobal.net 

or by home telephone at (972) 661-3923. 

Oct 27-29 MS/SC Joint Fly-In Tina and Bruce Thumann, 

Eureka Springs, Ark. (281) 487-5782 and 

Sarah and Mac McKinley, (816) 320-3462. 

Other alternate afternoon trips are: 

• The Wildlife Safari across from the 

SAC Museum. 

• The Fremont and Elkhorn Valley 

Railroad and Museum with an 

excursion train which runs 16 miles 

through the Elkhorn Valley from 

Fremont to Nickerson leaving the 

station at 1:00 p.m. The rail cars are 

vintage and date to the 1920s. 

• Old Historic Fremont with its 

homes and antiques shops. 

• The famous Henry Doorly Zoo and 

IMAX Theater in Omaha. 

• There are also several nice Art 

museums – the Joslyn Art 

Museum and the Durham Western 

Heritage Museum (located in the 

historic Omaha Union Station). 

• Several shopping malls are scattered 

around the Omaha area 

(for the shop till you drop ladies). 

We will wind up our day at the Kiewit 

Lodge with a great meal and a melodrama. 

Dinner will be served at 4:45 p.m. 

Our hotel will be the Holiday Lodge 

in Fremont. It has a full-service restaurant 

and bar. A special group rate will 

be $53.95 for double occupancy. Call 

for reservations at (402) 727-1110. The 

deadline is September 1. Remember to 

say you are with ICS or International 

Comanche Society. 

Car rental is through Enterprise Renta-car 

in Fremont. The local telephone 

number is (402) 727-4160 and the contact 

is Aubrey. A compact car is $14.99 

per day; a midsize car is $18.49 per day, 

with three-day minimums. Passenger 

vans carrying 15 people are $150.00 

per day, contact George if you are 

interested in vans. 

The airport requests you bring your 

own tie-downs and stakes. 

Please join us for a fun-filled weekend. 

A registration fee of $7.00 per person 

will be charged and deadline for registration 

is September 1. Send the fee to 

George H. Richmond, 15958 Madison 

Street, Omaha, NE 68135. 

For more information, you may contact 

George at (402)894-2917 or e-mail 

at fremontcomanches@yahoo.com. 

Fly-In 

Eureka Springs, Ark. 

October 27-29 

Let's mark our calendars and join 

the South Central Tribe for a great Fall 

fly-in to the mountains of Northern 

Arkansas. The Eureka area is filled with 

Ozark mountain music, Ozark country 

food, a very interesting Historic 

Downtown filled with many unusual 

shops, trolley cars and even a hotel with 

a ghost! Down the road is War Eagle 

Mill (a water-powered stone gristmill). 

With all this to do, you may want to 

stay for a week! See the South Central 

write-up for the details. 

SOUTH CENTRAL TRIBE 

Hangar Dance 

Fort Worth, Texas (FTW) 

October 14, 2006 

A delightful event takes place each 

year at the Vintage Flying Museum 

located on Meacham Field (FTW) in 

Forth Worth. Some of the vintage airplanes 

are pushed out of the museum's 

hangar, a bandstand and tables are set up, 

and a wonderful evening follows which 

includes a Texas Barbeque dinner, a 

wonderful display of the vintage aircraft, 

a chance to go through one or two planes, 



a great "big band" plays real danceable 

music from by-gone eras, and a large 

fun-loving, aviation-oriented crowd, 

many of whom will be in some kind of 

uniform or dress (mostly reminiscent 

of World War II), who will dance the 

night away. If you like good barbeque, 

you can't lose. If you like airplanes, you 

can't lose. If you like great big band music, 

you can't lose. If you like to dance, or 

just watch the show put on by other 

dancers, you can't lose. 

This is not a “hosted” South Central 

Tribe ICS fly-in event per se. In previous 

years, some South Central Tribe 

members have gotten together and sat 

together at this Vintage Flying Museum 

extravaganza. We are going to do that 

again this year. Although, we have not 

yet received all the details from the 

Vintage Flying Museum, we have projected 

the schedule and costs based 

on year’s past. 

Send Dick Brown $40 (per person) 

by Wednesday, October 4 for reservations 

for the barbeque dinner, the dance, 

and table reservations so we can sit 

together. Dick will have the dinner 

and dance tickets to give to everyone 

as they show up for the event. The dinner 

($15) is from 6:30 p.m. until 8:30 p.m. 

(dinner tickets are sold only in advance). 

If you want to skip the dinner, you can 

join us just for the dance from 8:00 p.m. 

until midnight (tickets $20 in advance, 

$25 at the door). 

Dick’s address is 7015 Roundrock Rd, 

Dallas, TX ,75248. He can be reached by 

e-mail at dbrown8527@sbcglobal.net or 

by home telephone at (972) 661-3923. 

He doesn’t carry his cell phone except 

when he needs to, but will carry it on 

the day of the event, so all can be 

assured of contacting him at the last 

minute, if needed, at (214) 500-6666. 

If anyone plans to fly in, the closest 

FBO on Meacham Field is the Sandpiper, 

about one-half of a mile from the Vintage 

Flying Museum Hangar. It is feasible to 

walk, but the neighborhood isn't all that 

great. If you will let Dick know when 

you are arriving, he’ll meet you at the 

Sandpiper FBO, and transport you to 

either the Barbeque Dinner and Dance, 

or to a motel if you are staying overnight. 

The Vintage Flying Museum may be 

negotiating a rate with a nearby facility. 

There will be more motel information 

for those wishing to stay overnight 

published in the SS Tribe newsletter 

Smoke Trails. If you are not a South 

Central Tribe member, you can either 

ask Dick to send you a newsletter or 

contact him personally closer to the 

event for motel information. 

We look forward to having a fun group. 

Fly-In 

Eureka Springs, Ark. 

October 27-29 

Please note date change. The date for 

this fly-In has been changed from a 

previous announcement, due to conflicts 

with other major events in the area. 

Eureka is the Greek word for “I 

found it.” You too will be shouting 

EUREKA from the mountain tops once 

you visit this small, quaint, historical 

town. Located deep in the heart of the 

Ozark Mountains, Eureka Springs was 

officially named on the Fourth of July 

in 1879. It soon became famous during 

the Victorian era for its “curing springs” 

and quickly grew in size to over 

10,000 residents. 



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There are numerous local attractions 

in the area to satisfy your every desire. 

Ladies, you will want to bring your 

Christmas shopping money for that 

special gift you will surely find in one 

of the dozens of fine shops in the 

Historical Downtown Shopping District. 

We have selected some of what we 

consider to be the best attractions for 

your dining and entertainment pleasure. 

First, plan to arrive by mid-afternoon 

on Friday in order to have time for a 

pleasant world-class dining experience 

before you being shuttled off to the 

Ozark Mountain Hoe-Down Country 

Music Theatre for an evening of great 

Comedy and Musical entertainment. 

On Saturday, the available daytime 

activities will feature several popular 

attractions including, but not limited 

to, the multi-award-wining historic 

Thorncrown Chapel, the Historical 

Downtown Shopping District, the 

Turpentine Creek big cat and wildlife 

refuge, the Historic District Narrated 

Tram Tour, and the 1886 Crescent Hotel. 

For gun enthusiasts, don’t miss the C. 

Burton Saunders Memorial Museum in 

Berryville, which is only a few miles 

from the airport. Mr. Saunders was very 

wealthy and became friends with many 

of the elite of his time, amassing a fine 

collection of unusual and unique hand 

guns, artifacts, and various items which 

belonged to some of America’s most 

famous and not-so-famous heroes and 

desperados. 

Do not forget to bring warm clothing 

or a blanket for Saturday night (there 

is a Wal-Mart in Berryville, if you do 

forget). After another fine dinner at 

one of the local eateries (and if the 

weather cooperates), we will be attending 

The Great Passion Play. It is billed 

as America’s number-one attended outdoor 

drama. We will see the final show 

of the season and be entertained by a 

cast of hundreds who bring to life the 

awe-inspiring epic drama of Christ, 

and “The Greatest Story Ever Told.” 

It will be an unforgettable experience. 

Then, on Sunday morning, please 

do not plan to leave until after lunch. 

We will be taking everyone out to the 

War Eagle Mill, 25 miles south of town, 

for a wonderful breakfast and one last 

shopping experience for the ladies. 

War Eagle is the site of the largest craft 

show in America every mid-October. 

Fortunately, the 250,000 people who 

attend it will be gone by the time we are 

there. But, you will see the only waterpowered 

stone gristmill in operation 

in Arkansas and have the opportunity 

to purchase some of their all-natural 

products and other gift items at their 

General Mercantile Store. 

Assuming normal seasonal changes, 

you may also expect to see some of 

the most beautiful displays of color in 

America as the fall season arrives in 

Arkansas. You will see the Fall colors 

from the air as well, as in the many 

valleys and on hillsides as you tour 

the area by car. Many travel to this 

area in October for the colors alone. 

We will be staying at the Best Western 

Eureka Inn. Nightly rates are $99.00 

for two with two double beds or $106.00 

for two with one king or queen bed. You 

must mention ICS for the discount when 

making reservations. The telephone 

number is (877) 516-9900. There have 

been15 rooms blocked for the event that 

will be held through September 22. Any 

cancellation must be made 48 hours 

prior to your arrival date. 



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Fiberglass 

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Piper PA 38 Tomahawk.....................$275 

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Beech 33, 35 & Baron (1971-1983) .$450 

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Cessna 170/172/175..........................$275 

Cessna 180/182/185..........................$275 

Cessna 210/206 .................................$275 

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We will be flying in to the Berryville, 

Carroll County Airport, (4M1). The airport 

is located approximately 12 miles 

east of Eureka Springs. Self-service fuel 

is available and was +/- 30 percent less 

than the national average as of this writing. 

Rental cars are not readily available 

in the area, so please RSVP for this event 

in order that we can obtain adequate van 

transportation for those coming. 

Registration will be $30.00 per person, 

which will include van/shuttle transportation 

to and from the hotel and 

various events, as well as arrival snacks 

and refreshments. This event is being 

hosted by Bruce and Tina Thumann of 

the South Central Tribe and Mac and 

Sarah McKinley of the Mid-States Tribe. 

All registrations should be sent to 

Bruce Thumann, 6430 Mayfair St., 

Houston, Texas, 77087. Contact phone 

numbers for Bruce are (281) 487-5782 

(home), (877) 776-9663 (toll-free at 

work), (713) 875-3056 (cell). Tina’s cell 

number is (832) 788-9673, and the airport 

phone numbers are (870) 423-2668 

for the terminal lounge or (479) 244- 

5210 for Airport Manager Perry Evans 

cell number. 

Plan to join us and be a part of this 

“For Fun” fly-In! 

Saturday Lunch Fly-Ins 

If it is difficult for you to make a full 

weekend fly-in, you may find the 

Saturday lunch gatherings with 

Comanche camaraderie, sharing of 

flying stories, maintenance talk and 

lunch, to your liking. You should be able 

to find a schedule of the lunch fly-ins 

on the South Central Tribe website at 

http://groups.msn.com/SouthCentral 

TribeICS/welcome.msnw and in the 

South Central Tribe newsletter 

Smoke Trails. 


Shoulder 

Harness 

Program 

Due to the tremendous response, 

P.V. Aero and Kosola have agreed 

to extend the discount programs 

on their shoulder harness installation 

kits to all ICS members indefinately. 

If you are not an ICS member, call 

Gaynor at Headquarters at (405) 491- 

0321 to sign up so you can get the discounts. 

The shoulder harness kits provided 

by Kosola and P.V. Aero exceed the 

FAA strength standards by a factor of 

1.3 or more. 

Have your ICS number and aircraft 

serial number ready when you ask to 

speak to the shoulder harness program 

person. The prices and phone numbers 

for Kosola and P.V. Aero are as follows: 

KOSOLA 

Phone: (229) 435-4119 

Fax: (229) 888-5766 

Contact: John Brim 

Front seat: per seat price $420 to 

$440 for strap and $595 to $620 for 

the inertia reel setup. The prices vary 

according to serial number. 

Rear seat: per seat price $420 for 

strap and $595 for the inertia reel 

Kosola is offering an ICS member 

discount of $50 per seat. 

P. V. AERO 

Phone: (918) 274-1616 

Cell: (816) 210-4829 

Contact: Lenny Spall 

Both front seats are normally $475; 

and both rear seats are normally $475. 

ICS members receive a special, discounted 

price of $425 for a seat pair, 

or $800 for all four seats. 

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Fly-In Reports 

The South Central 

Tribe’s Palo Duro 

Extravaganza 

by Dick Brown, ICS #12179 

“The surrounding 

flat semi-desert 

makes the Kansas 

flatlands look like 

beautiful rolling 

hills. Why would 

we go there? 

Read on!” 

Steaks 

at Big Tex 

We had fun, fun, fun! Sixteen 

airplanes full of fun-loving 

Comancheros, plus the tribe 

chief (Dick and Doris) whose twin 

“broke down” on the way, gathered at 

Tradewind Airport in Amarillo Texas. 

Mark and Denise Pfeiffer performed a 

“Comanche air lift” to get Dick and 

Doris to the fly-in on time. 

To set the stage, Amarillo is in the 

Texas panhandle in the middle of 

nowhere. The surrounding flat semidesert 

makes the Kansas flatlands 

look like beautiful rolling hills. Why 

would we go there? Read on! 

We gathered at the Tradewind Airport 

in five stage coaches (aka vans) to 

check in at the motel and proceed to 

the world-famous Big Texan Steak 

Ranch Restaurant where you can eat 

a 72-ounce steak for free. None of us 

could belly up to that. We had a private 

dining room to enjoy the best of Texas 

eating with Texas art and artifacts all 

around to remind us we were in a very 

special place. As usual, the Mid-States 

Tribe supported our fly-in big time (as 

we do theirs). We had a chance to recognize 

folks from both tribes for their 

contributions to our fun over the past 

few months, tell a few stories, lies, and 

in general enjoy each other’s company. 

We had one interloper from the South 

East Tribe, Jim Martin who added a 

little “gentile” behavior to our raucous 

crowd. At the appropriate moment, 


three cowboys and a Texas lady strolled 

in and entertained us with great western 

music. The Comanche camaraderie 

doesn’t get any better that it did that 

night. The evening ended with our fleet 

of stage coaches returning to our motel 

with happy campers aboard. 

Saturday was a great day. It started 

early with a 20-mile drive to the rim of 

the world-famous Palo Duro Canyon. 

There we were “herded” on to several 

off-road vehicles decorated with longhorns 

and dusty Texas art. We bounced 

down a steep canyon dirt road to the 

chuck wagon of the Elkins Ranch. 

Ranch hands fed us the best cowboy 

breakfast we could have wanted, served 

on a tray with no dishes – just like 

they did it in the real cowboy days. 

An intruding rattle snake got shot on 

the spot. Everything tasted great, the 

biscuits and coffee were superb. Then 

some real Texas comedy and musical 

entertainment got underway with 

cowboy/singer Ed Montana and his 

sidekick. Ed tried to teach Mark 

Pfeifer and Elaine Fox to yodel – it 

didn’t work. He gave us about an 

hour-and-a-half of half-true history of 

the majestic canyon we were sitting in, 

interspersed with song and comedy. 

We could watch the deer nearby, and 

savor the colors of the canyon – it was 

a great morning. 

We next visited the world famous 

Panhandle-Plains Historical Museum. 

We could have spent several hours there, 

as its diversity offered something of 

interest to everyone. But recognizing 

we have to have “shopping” as part of 

every fly-in, our fleet of stage coaches 

had to proceed to the historic Route 

66 shopping area. Here our stage coaches 

went different directions, antique shopping, 

mall shopping, to the airport to 

kick tires, or back to the motel for a 

nap. I went with the airport crowd. It was 

fun listening to the owners of the many 

impeccably maintained Comanches 

share their secrets. 

The evening brought us to the climax 

of our fly-in. Our stages coaches took 

us back to the Palo Duro Canyon, and 

then deeper in to the canyon for the 

world-famous barbeque and musical 

extravaganza “Texas.” The setting was 

a 2,000-seat outside amphitheater among 

the beautiful canyon rock formations, 

with a large open stage and the canyon 

wall as its backdrop. The play essentially 

revolved around the history of a panhandle 

town, with its pioneer struggles, 

love stories, and indians, and was set 

to music and special sound and visual 

effects occurring on the 800-foot canyon 

wall natural backdrop. It was spectacular 

with trees being split by lighting 

and thunder which made you “duck”. 

Now I don’t really know the complete 

story, but rumor has it that upon return 

to our hotel, two of our Comanche 

rowdies were having such a good time 

that they actually got thrown out of 

our motel and others were threatened. 

You will have to ask them about that. 

All I really know is that not all of us 

checked out of the same motel we 

checked into. 

On Sunday, we had to go back to 

reality. Our Texas Panhandle weekend 

is now an indelible memory. Our thanks 

to Butch and Linda Baker for volunteering 

to be the hosts of the fly-in, to 

� The ride deep into Palo Duro 

all the stage coach drivers, and to each 

who attended. I don’t really understand 

why our whole tribe doesn’t show up, 

as we have so much fun. 


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Mid-States and 

North Central Tribes 

Enjoy House on the Rock 

by Barb Beil 

The skies were welcoming on Friday, June 23 to 17 beautiful Comanche airplanes 

flying into southwestern Wisconsin. Those Comanches carried 47 people from 

11 states who were present to enjoy the beautiful scenery Wisconsin offered. 

We stayed at the House on the Rock Inn, enjoying a hospitality room and many 

swimming pools with a special wading pool for the children, that was a large copper 

submarine. We dined at a fish and broasted chicken buffet at Jimmy’s that evening. 

Saturday we were off to the House on the Rock and its museums. “Awesome,” 

was just one of the comments about the House on the Rock. It truly is one of a kind. 

That evening we dined at Thym’s Supper Club. We welcomed two couples that were 

at a fly-in for the first time – Leon and Jean Hapka from Argyle, Minn. and Milt and 

Fay Blersch from Cincinnati, Ohio. Dorothy Meadows enlightened us of upcoming 

fly-ins for the North Central tribe; while Sarah McKinley told us of the events scheduled 

in the Mid-States tribe. 

Sunday all airplanes and passengers flew out, despite marginal weather. 

� The Weavers 

and Guests 

Fly-In Reports continued... 

� The 

Bullocks 

and Mikus 


Cretneys 

and Sarah 

McKinley 

� The Lays and Curtiss 


Meadows 

and Degners 

� The Einspahr family. 

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4 exhaust stack 

extensions with 

nuts & bolts, and 

installation instructions 

GULF COAST STACKS 

P.O. BOX 817 

FOLEY, AL 36536 

251-943-3653 

-SARA (TERRI) PAINTER BAUER 


Fly-In Reports continued... 

Southwest Tribe Reeps 

Reno’s Offerings and 

Welcome New Board 

by Peggy Harmon, ICS #12436 

The Southwest tribe’s July fly-in 

and annual business meeting 

was held this year July 14-16 at 

Reno’s best kept secret, the Peppermill 

Casino on South Virginia Street. Even 

though this beautiful casino is located 

south of the downtown area, it has all 

the amenities one could ask for of a 

gambling resort. The only drawback was 

the remodeling expansion, which tells 

you it is a desired and thus growing 

✦ DOWTY 

✦ HARTZELL 

✦ MCCAULEY 

http://www.rockyprop.com 

e-mail: rockyprop@rockyprop.com 

facility. We had 44 people and 14 airplanes 

at the fly-in which was hosted 

by our treasurer, Sandy Moore and 

her co-host, Shari Caton (with the 

assistance of their partners-in-crime, 

Ed and John, respectively). 

After arrival on Friday, everyone was 

on their own for dinner at the several 

restaurants in the casino or the surrounding 

area. After breakfast Saturday 

morning and a little gambling time, 

both ladies and gentlemen were shuttled 

downtown. Some chose to tour 

Harrah’s famous Automobile Museum, 

while others shopped and strolled along 

the Truckee River. 

Saturday evening found everyone in 

the Peppermill’s Tahoe banquet room 

for cocktails, followed by their wonderful 

Gold Rush Dinner Buffet. Tribe 

Chief Craig Varga then opened our 

business meeting in which next year’s 

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GOVERNORS 


officers were elected. They are as follows: 

Tribe Chief – Lorne Harmon; 

Assistant Tribe Chief – Charles Parker; 

Tribe Scribe – Peggy Harmon; Treasurer 

– Sandy Moore; and Trip Chairman – 

John Caton. The new position of 

Communications Officer was added to 

our by-laws, and Dorian Swartz was 

elected to fill that position. In addition, 

a big round of applause was given for 

the current Board’s service. 

After the meeting, we had the pleasure 

of a presentation by Chuck Kuennan, 

FAA/Lockheed Martin representative, 

concerning weather information and 

potential changes in the flight service 

system in the future. He followed up with 

a short question-and-answer period. 

We ended with our usual gift raffle 

(a lot of great gifts), the cash drawing 

from the evening’s ticket sales, as well 

as the annual drawing for our “big pot” 

($520). The lucky winner of the “big 

one” was Isabel Frimmersdorf, the host 

of our recent Santa Rosa fly-in. 

We all had a great time at this fly-in, 

and many thanks again to Sandy and 

Shari for all their work. 

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NEW STAINLESS 

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STC/PMA APPROVED FOR 

THE PA24-180/250 AND 260 

COMANCHE 

COMANCHE 180: $3295.00 

PLUS INSTALLATION 

COMANCHE 250/260: $3695.00 

PLUS INSTALLATION 

AVIATION 

PERFORMANCE 

PRODUCTS, INC. 

975 Aurora Road 

Melbourne, FL 32935 

Phone: 321/254-2880 

Fax: 321/254-9115 

www.aviationperformanceproducts.com 


Featured Fly-In 

North Central 

Tribe Gains Knowledge 

and Camaraderie at 

Maintenance Seminar Fly-In 

by Bill Schnauffer, ICS #12489 

On Saturday June 10, Cliff 

Wilewski (ICS #15746) hosted 

a maintenance seminar at his 

FBO, Heritage Aero, Inc. (www.heritageaero.com), 

in Rockford, Ill (RFD). 

Thirteen Comanches and 40 people 

attended the seminar. The attendance 

was dampened by inclement weather 

and some attendees drove to the event. 

The maintenance seminar started at 

10:30 a.m. and concluded at 4:00 p.m. 

Cliff had a PA-30 on jacks and discussed 

the functions and maintenance to the 

landing gear system. He utilized a 

small camera and projected the images 

on a video screen so all could see. Cliff 

also had one stabilator removed and discussed 

the issues and proper inspection 

of the stabilator torque tube. 

Heritage Aero’s team of Comanche 

specialists looked over all the planes 

that attended the seminar. All aircraft 

owners were given a list of suggested 

items that should be corrected on their 


“Cliff had a PA-30 on 

jacks and discussed 

the functions and 

maintenance to the 

landing gear system. 

He utilized a small 

camera and projected 

the images on a 

video screen so 

all could see.” 

perspective airplanes. Henry Spellman 

from the Comanche Flyer Foundation 

offered copies of Maurice Taylor's tape, 

“Comanche Landing Gear” for attendees. 

Bill Schnauffer and his son Will 

were the chefs and prepared lunch for 

everyone. 

Heritage Aero, Inc. plans to host 

additional maintenance seminars in 

the future and invites all to attend. 

Everyone had a great day and found 

the experience very informative and 

worthwhile. 


Comanche 

Classified 

Trading Post is a non-commercial, 

member to member service provided 

free of charge, one time per 

member, per year. The sale of aircraft 

is not permitted in the 

Trading Post. 

Ads must be submitted in writing 

only (fax or E-mail OK). Free ads 

may not be placed by phone. First 

25 words are free. Extra words are 

$0.40 per word. Fax (405) 491-0325 

E-mail: icsadmin@sbcglobal.net 

FOR SALE: One pair of New Piper gear 

cables P/N 455-180. Sell for $500 or 

Trade for Overhauled Flap Transmission/ 

Motor. HM 253-564-6323 CELL (253) 

377-9758. 2/2 

FOR SALE: Three original PA-30 

Polished Prop Spinners, one still with 

yellow tag, each $325.00 includes US 

Shipping. E-mail Adamyk (941) 360- 

9282, COMADCO@Aol.com 2/2 

For Sale: Polished Spinner (D7086) & 

Backing Plate (D7089A) off a 3 blade 

McCauley prop model no B3D32C412- 

C. $250.00 plus shipping. Contact David 

at ddusty1988@aol.com 1/2 

For Sale: Polished Spinner (D7086) & 

Backing Plate (D7089A) off a 3 blade 

McCauley prop model no B3D32C412- 

C. $250.00 plus shipping. Contact David 

at ddusty1988@aol.com 1/2 

Auto controlII for 180/250 complete, 

wiring cables, control box, A.H. indicator, 

servo, works great replaced w/ STEC 

60-2 $400.00 OBO Bob Sayles 704-947- 

8000, prioritylocating@aol.com. 1/2 

European Center for 

Comanche Parts 

Twins, Comprehensive stock of New & 

Serviceable S/H Sparews, Inc., Props, Spinner 

Back Plates, Engines, Undercarriage Wheels, 

Wings, CSU’s, El Boost Pump, Generators, 

Alternators, etc. In fact 90% of all Twin 

Parts. PA24’s less comprehensive, but try me. 

Will Ship World Wide. No List. 

Tel: or FAX: 

UK: 44 116 240 2294 

E-Mail: Sales@PiperSpares.com 

www.PiperSpares.com 

Shoulder 

Harnesses 

STC, FAA, PMA approved for front 

and rear seats for comanche aircraft. 

$475 FOR BOTH FRONT SEATS 

$475 FOR BOTH REAR SEATS 

$850 FOR FRONT & REAR 

(ICS MEMBERS ONLY) 

*Not available for rear seats of three side 

window (B-C model) A/C. 

P.V. Aero • Lenny Spall 

(918) 274-1616 

Cell: (816) 210-4829 

Classified 

Advertising 

Rate: 

(Two issue minimum) 

Minimum Ad Charge: 

$50.00 

Payment must accompany 

advertisement order. 

Extra charge for Photos. 

All advertising must be received 

by the editor in writing (mail, fax, 

or e-mail) five weeks prior to the 

desired month of publication. 

Payment must accompany advertisement 

order. Renewals may be 

made by telephone, but initial ad 

must be in writing. 

The publisher makes no warranties 

as to the veracity or accuracy of 

the information provided by the 

advertiser. The publisher is under 

no obligation to accept any or all 

advertisements. 

International 

Comanche Society 

5604 Phillip J. Rhoads Avenue 

Hangar 3, Wiley Post Airport 


TEL: (405)-491-0321 

FAX: (405) 491-0325 

E-mail: 

icsadmin@sbcglobal.net 

PA24-180 

1959 Piper Comanche PA24-180 

3949TT 815 SMOH 3 blade McCauley 

prop 205 SNEW custom avionics 

panel, IFR capable, copper cables, 

alternator one piece windshield. 

Narco 810, 120, nav Narco 120,121, 

Apollo loran, Narco 890, DME intercom 

Hangared paint 7, interior 8 

$44,500 Call 541-997-6964 1/2 

PA24-250 

1960 PA24-250 Engine 0540-I-A-C- 

5. Registration N6789P Ser# 24-1921 

Airframe Hours 8400 Engine Hours 870 

Since new. Propeller: Hartzel 350 Since 

SMOH eddy current AD Due 10/07. Paint 

A/C New paint 6/14/04 Original 1960 

Comanche 3 tone scheme. Interior New 

Leather installed with leather headliner 

2003 D&T Aircraft, Cal City CA. Annual 

Due: Fresh annual preformed Dec 2005. 

Piper Service Bulletin No. 1160 Complied 

with. Avionics: Center stack panel by Ron 

and John’s. Fiber Glass glare shield by 

Dennis Ashby, Instruments lighting by 

new light, Garmin GMA 340 Audio Panel 

with 3-light marker, and 4 place intercom, 

Music Input, King KX 125 Nav/Com with 

209A glide slope, Garmin 250 XL GPS 

with remote needle/moving map, Narco 

AT 150 with encoder, Narco 890 DME, 

EDM 700 engine Analyzer all 6 

Cylinders, Fuel Scan 400 Fuel totalizer. 

S-Tec Autopilot (Heading) (GPS VOR 

LOC Tracking) Altitude Hold, Tip Tanks 

90 gal fuel, Price $83,000.00 OBO. OVER 

$130,000 invested, if you see this plane 

and want a Comanche, you will buy it, 

many more extras, Call for Spec sheet. 

Mick Thames Ryan Airfield, Tucson, AZ 

(520) 883-4823 E-mail tyconic@aol.com 

or Gary Towle Tucson AZ (520) 444- 

0316 E-mail Flyfire2@comcast.net 

ICS #12974 2/2 

1958 PA24-250 Well Maintained w/Same 

owner for 35 Yrs. 4243TT, 1023 SMOH, 

New Hartzell 2 Blade Prop, Dual KX 

170B’s, GS, KX86 NDB, GX55 w/CDI 

(IFR Certifiable), AT150 Xpndr, S-Tec 

40 Coupled Autopilot, Remote Compass, 


Tip Tanks, 4 Place Intercom, Paint/ 

Interior (Leather) 9+/9, Soundproofed, 

2 Strobes Rotating Beacon, IFR Certified, 

Standby Vacuum, 1 Piece Windshield, 

1/4" Glass, Upgraded Panel w/Center 

Stack Radios, Portable Oxygen, 

Shoulder Harnesses. $70,000. Warren 

Cermak (419) 798-5809 or wcermak@ 

cros.net.GPS 2/2 

Prop, Dual KX 170B’s, GS, KX86 NDB, 

GX55 w/CDI(IFR Certifiable), AT150 

Xpndr, S-Tec 40 Coupled Autopilot, 

Remote Compass, Tip Tanks, 4 Place 

Intercom, Paint/ Interior (Leather) 

9+/9, Soundproofed, 2 Strobes 

Rotating Beacon, IFR Certified, 

Standby Vacuum, 1 Piece Windshield, 

1/4” Glass, Upgraded Panel w/Center 

Stack Radios, Portable Oxygen, 

Shoulder Harnesses. $70,000. 

Warren Cermak 419-798-5809 or 

wcermak@cros.net.GPS 1/2 

PA24-260 

1965 Comanche, PA-24-260, Lycoming 

IO540 D TT 3254 SMOH 1787 SCTOH 

355 Next Annual 3/07 2nav coms: Mac 

LED flip-flop, KX-170B, HSI coupled 3 

axis A/P, 2 glide slopes, GPS King 89B 

IFR cert, excellent IFR platform, DME, 

ADF, 6 probe EGT, Audio panel, 3 light 

Mkr Bcn, Feul flow gauge, Avionics master 

switch, Bonzer Radar Alt alert, Alt static, 

Alt vacuum, 4 place intercom, Hand 

& toe brake, Oxy receptacles, Black 

anodized panel very sharp: 3 point 

strobe, Pitot heat & cover, 90 gal tanks, 

Hartzell prop, Metco wing tips, Copper 

cables, Walker oil return, Ext Aux power 

supply, Oil pan heat pad, Red carpet 

8/10 in, 9/10 out, Ad log system, All Ads, 

Always Hangared, Parts & Service manuals, 

Nose wheel tow mule, Small N 

numbers, & much more! $79,500 or 

best offer. Call Ernest & Lorraine Seth 

(304) 643-4668, or E-mail lauriefmk@ 

zoominternet,net. 2/2 

1966 PA24 260B N9106P, TTSN 5645, 

SMOH 1945, STOH (Millennium) 702, 

SPOH 45, S-TEC 60 AP w/ pitch control 

King IFR, KX155’s, WX-8 StormScope, 

backup vacuum, KMA25H w/ 4pl 

intercom, 1-pc windshield, shoulder 

harnesses, strobes, new interior, good 

paint, hangared since ‘97 June annual, 

$65,000, Dixon (303) 818-2990, 

java_air@smoky.tikasys.com 2/2 

1971 Piper Comanche 260C N9476P: 

Always Hangared, 2200 TT Airframe 

and Engine, NDH, Annual 4/07, 

Adlogs/Original Logs, All AD's comp., 

Great Comp, Beige & Putty Leather 

Int 2002, ?'' Glass, Altimatc IIB 3- 

Axis, Insight CHT/EGT, GNS 530, 

Shadin Miniflo L, Mark 12D Nav/Com, 

Narco Transp, DME, PSI 4-Audio 

panel, WX10 Stormscope, 4-Place 

Oxygen, Electric Trim, NULITE Inst 

Lts, $114K/OBO, info & pics: cz@skydogcreative.com, 

917-699-0593 1/2 

1966 PA24 260B, N9086P, TT 3037.8 

SMOH 1104.3, SPOH 378.1 Snew 

annual 10-18-05, IFR 09-09-05, No 

damage history. To many things to 

list. Call or email for pictures and 

equipment. $105,000. 361-552-5838, 

thevabrowns@cableone.net 1/2 

PA30 / PA39 

1965 PA-30 Twin Commanche- 

Counter Rotated, 4365 TT, 750 SMOH 

LE/RE, LOST MEDICAL, Loran, Nose 

Wheel Tug, Manuals, KX-170B and Mac 

Digital Radios, Insight EGT/CHTs, 

Horizontal Compass, Small Nose Wheel, 

Amp/Volt Meter, Lopresti Wow Cowls 

and Speed Spats, Arapaho 1 Piece 

Windshield, K2-U Wing Fillets, Pilot/ 

Co-Pilot Shoulder Harnesses, Bogart 

Battery Cables, 4 Place Intercom, 

Johnston Wingtips, See thru Visors, Glare 

Shield, Upper door latch, Altimatic II, 

Always Hangared. Family Owned For 

Over 30 Years, Paint and Interior 7/8, 

$75,000. Call Ed at 530 550-8855 or 

email Edwardferrera@aol.com 1/2 

1967 Factory Turbo Twin Comanche, 

Ser #3-1602, 3365 TT, 1375 SMOH, 

L/E and R/E, Altimatic III, one-piece 

windshield 1/4" glass, Factory Oxygen, 

Strobe Lights. Always hangared, No 

damage history, Well Maintained. One 

Owner last 24 years. Annual 12/05. 

$98,000 Call (949) 493-4642 or e-mail 

jocannan@aol.com. 1/2 

Advertiser’s 

Index 

Ada Aircraft Painting ............................15 

Advanced Pilot Seminars......................19 

Aero Tech Services ..............................33 

Aero-PMA-Parts ....................................44 

Aerotech Publications ..........................43 

Aerox ....................................................15 

Air Parts of Lock Haven ......................35 

Aircraft Engineering, Inc. ....................22 

Aircraft Specialty Services ......................40 

Aircraft Spruce and 

Specialty ............................Inside Back Cvr 

Avemco ..................................................7 

Aviation Performance Products ......23,43 

B&C Specialty Products, Inc. ..............23 

Bogert Aviation ....................................26 

Bruce’s Custom Covers ........................16 

CFF ......................................................11 

Clifton Aero ..........................................37 

Comanche Gear....................................21 

Degroff Aviation Technologies ..............35 

Dennis Ashby........................................36 

Eagle Fuel Cells ....................................48 

Electronics International......................21 

First National Bank Midwest ................20 

General Aviation Modifications ............33 

Great Lakes Aero Products ..................32 

Gulf Coast Stacks ................................41 

Hartwig Fuel Cell Repair ......................44 

Hartzell Propeller, Inc...........................45 

Icarus Instruments ..............................48 

Iliff Aircraft Repair ..............................37 

J.L. Osborne, Inc. ................................48 

Johnston Aircraft Services ........Back Cvr 

Knots 2U ........................Inside Front Cvr 

Kosola & Associates..............................33 

Linda Lou, Inc. ....................................15 

LoPresti Speed Merchants....................23 

Met-Co-Aire ..........................................17 

Mike’s Upholstery ................................40 

Paul Bowen ................17,Inside Back Cvr 

Poplar Grove Airmotive........................35 

Precise Flight ........................................22 

Precision Propeller ..............................19 

Questair ................................................15 

Rocky Mountain Propellers, Inc. ..........42 

Ron & John’s Comanche Service ........16 

Schweiss Bi-Fold Doors ........................33 

Sky-Tec Partners ....................................7 

Sound Ex Products ..............................36 

Survival Products..................................40 

Travers & Associates ............................34 

Tsuniah Lake Lodge ..............................7 

Turton Enterprises................................17 

Warren Gregoire & Assoc. LLC ............40 

Webco ..................................................39 

White Industries ..................................11 

William Creech ..............Inside Back Cvr 

Zephyr Aircraft Engines ......................19 



This is a “must read for all ICS members.” 

This is an account of the 31 

year career of a USAF 

Fighter Pilot. It deals with 

flying over 300 combat 

missions in fighters during 

three wars, WWII, Korea, 

and Viet Nam. He was shot 

down twice during WWII, 

flew F-86’s during Korea, 

and went on to command a 

F-100 squadron in the Viet 

Nam era. It also deals with 

some of the frustrations of 

bureaucracy and in retirement, 

his experiences as 

President of the ICS as well 

as owning and maintaining a 

Comanche for 2700 hours. 

For info, call Bill at 915-581-3401 or order ($20.00 plus S&H) at 

www.the3rdgreatestfighterpilot.com, 

or www.authorhouse.com, 

or 1-800-839-8640

2-BLADE COMPACT HUB PROPELLER 

3-BLADE COMPACT HUB PROPELLER 

Special 

on Props 

NOW!

The International Comanche Society - Pilot und Flugzeug Online

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